pugscode.org | temporary feather address: perl6.wall.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
Set by allbery_b on 24 March 2007.
svnbot6 r15878 | lwall++ | don't use obsolete each() in 99problems 00:48
r15878 | lwall++ | work around "return if" problem.
pasteling "evalbot_r15877" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (328 lines, 18K) at sial.org/pbot/24123 00:50
svnbot6 r15879 | lwall++ | Add test for "return if" problem". 01:12
pasteling "evalbot_r15878" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (289 lines, 15.8K) at sial.org/pbot/24124 01:16
svnbot6 r15880 | lwall++ | Make subrule reinstall give more feedback on failure.
r15881 | lwall++ | forgot to add props to if3.t 01:19
svnbot6 r15882 | unobe++ | * reworked package-osx.pl script (will use w/buildbot soon) 01:37
r15882 | unobe++ | ** need to finish .pkg and .dmg creation steps
svnbot6 r15883 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : updated VERSION docs in all .pm files to specify 'for Perl 6' 08:21
clkao 08:35
dduncan what you say? 08:36
wolverian Juerd, feather's missing the fi_FI.UTF-8 locale. I don't see an english UTF-8 locale either. 11:38
gaal wolverian: fixing 12:31
fixed
Juerd wolverian: I emptied /etc/locale.gen recently because it broke 12:47
Haven't had tuits to refill it
svnbot6 r15884 | fglock++ | - updated v6/yapc-sa-hackathon.txt 13:34
nwc10 fa_UR.utf8 is a locale worth getting 14:17
oops
fa_IR.UTF-8
the decimal separator is not in the ASCII range
avar pugs svn? 14:28
gaal is that Iranian Farsi? # guessing
avar hrm, where is the svn again?
moritz avar: svn.pugscode.org/trunk/
gaal oh, he left. 14:29
avar svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ actually:)
lambdabot Title: Revision 15884: /
moritz oh, sorry ;-) 14:30
lichtkind moritz: weisst du wo larry gebohren wurde? 15:25
moritz lichtkind: noe 15:26
lichtkind moritz: habe nämlich gemerkt das unser artikel amiland sagt aber en original kanada
lichtkind TimToady: it is corecct that you are born in duncan? thanks 15:43
rgs duncan, idaho ?
lichtkind i love dune 15:44
no duncon, british columbia
rgs apparently there are five duncan in the USA, but none of them are in idaho
lichtkind i thought that you mean duncan idaho the figure from the dune novel 15:45
rgs that was a pun, yes 15:46
TimToady no, I wasn't born in any place named Duncan. 15:51
I was born near LA
and I don't mean Louisiana...
geoffb You're from Southern California? And you did something good for humanity? Wow, maybe there's hope for us all .... ;-) 15:52
TimToady I'm "from" all up and down the west coast, depending on how you care to define "from". 15:53
jerrylee building pugs is really not easy 15:54
geoffb resembles that remark ...
TimToady on Windows?
jerrylee yes
[particle] is that why i see all those "larry wall raised here - next exit" signs on the highways?
TimToady yep
you'll notice none of them say "grew up" though. 15:56
jerrylee it took me all night to build it
TimToady how much memory?
fglock [particle]: do you know how much of class/namespace is implemented in p6-in-parrot? there are no tests for this
jerrylee install ghc, activeperl, nmake ... 15:57
[particle] i don't know if it's implemented at all
fglock k
jerrylee 512m
[particle] if i recall, it was waiting the object implementation, which we now have
TimToady 512 works but tends to thrash ghc a bit. My compiles got a lot faster after I upped it to 1.5M 15:58
(though that was with ghc 6.4; don't know if 6.6 is still that hungry) 15:59
jerrylee and it's not easy for newbie to do it :) (though i am not newbie)
TimToady most everyone here is a trooper, or too new to figure out that they're not. :) 16:00
gaal 6.6 is still hungry, yes, but all other things being equal is much faster. 16:01
TimToady the attitude we have to guard against as we go forward is "It was hard for me, so it has to be hard for everyone else now too"
moritz jerrylee: I have 512mb RAM too, minus a bit video ram.. it swaps but it compiles (if you are patient ;-) 16:02
TimToady I don't mind some vicarious suffering, as long as it really is alleviating someone else's future pain. But if not...
gaal er, certainly not saying that 6.6 being hungry's a good thing. :)
jerrylee moritz: it's compiling, though used all resources ;) 16:03
TimToady moritz: can you borrow some extra ram and see if your smoke still fails? 16:05
or maybe add more swap space? 16:06
moritz TimToady: no, I have a ~3 yrs old laptop, and I don't know anybody around with compatible ram
TimToady running what?
moritz TimToady: but I do have 1G swap, and that's never full
debian
TimToady hmm 16:07
well, scratch that theory then
PerlJam moritz: the laptop is 3 years old, but how old is the debian? ;)
geoffb moritz: Are you running with X, or sitting at console?
moritz PerlJam: released on sunday ;-)
[particle] scratches david wheeler
moritz geoffb: with X + FVWM
PerlJam moritz: try turning off all that X stuff and compile again. 16:08
geoffb moritz: you might consider going telinit 1 and doing the compile, and see how that goes
TimToady I was more addressing the smoke failure mentioned on p6c
moritz PerlJam, geoffb: I'll do that tonight before going to bed
geoffb or rebooting to 'single'
PerlJam I know the first time I compiled pugs, I had to do it without X running. (though my situation changed such that it wasn't a problem)
TimToady bbl & 16:15
wolverian Juerd, thanks! you're a very gracious host. Juerd++
Juerd wolverian: Can I delegate adding all the locales to you? 16:16
wolverian Juerd, sure. I don't think I have sudo right now though 16:17
Juerd, you want them _all_?
Juerd Yes, all 16:18
wolverian I can do that.
Juerd You have sudo access now
wolverian just manual work, I think. :)
thanks.
Juerd There's probably a list of all locales, but I cuoldn't find it 16:19
Thank *you*
moritz dpkg-reconfigure locales should do
wolverian yup, doing that now.
moritz Debian++
wolverian it's just annoying to click down check click down check down check down check ....
oh wait, there's "All locales" :) 16:20
Juerd, what's the default locale?
moritz Debian++ # for debconf ;-)
wolverian Juerd, that is, do you have a preference? :)
moritz I think "C" should be just fine?
PerlJam Juerd: Am I just a little off, or are you delegating blame? "It's wolverian's fault the locales are still broken" :) 16:21
Juerd wolverian: System locale should be C
wolverian okay. 16:22
generating now. should be fixed when it's done.
Juerd i.e. there shouldn't be any locale by default
Great, thanks
PerlJam: Yep.
:)
wolverian delegating is fine as long as I have a clue what to do. with debian, I usually do.
I guess I'm an easy target. (; 16:24
wolverian at "b"... 16:27
moritz TimToady: sorry I only replied to you, not to the list.. will do that now 16:33
svnbot6 r15885 | fglock++ | mp6 - MiniPerl6::Perl6Parrot::Emitter placeholder 16:35
gaal generating all utf-8 locales would take forever 16:38
and will happen every time $that_package is updated
moritz utf-8 is overrated ;-) 16:39
gaal is it? it's pretty nifty. 16:40
pasteling "evalbot_r15884" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (61 lines, 2.3K) at sial.org/pbot/24142
TimToady it's also underrated. :) 16:40
Juerd 18:38 < gaal> generating all utf-8 locales would take forever
18:38 < gaal> and will happen every time $that_package is updated
It's okay this time because wolverian does it :)
pasteling "evalbot_r15884" at 194.145.200.126 pasted "Pugs build failure" (182 lines, 9.1K) at sial.org/pbot/24143
Juerd And it's okay during upgrades because I never attend them anyway
Juerd feather has always had the full locale list installed, until last saturday 16:41
wolverian the locales aren't updated that often, anyway.
gaal *shrug*
wolverian screen++
Juerd It takes 45 minutes or so
gaal i'm used to my slow machine at home where i'm always impatient
moritz converted his homepage yesterday from latin1 to utf-8
gaal screen++ indeed 16:42
Juerd is considering using utf-32 because it compresses extremely well... ;) 16:43
jrockway why isn't there a utf-24?
gaal may I propose for that purpose UTF-64
moritz jrockway: because 24 isn't 2^n, n integer ;-) 16:44
jrockway: and computer scientists love powers of 2
xinming_ utf-8 here is for historical reasons. And I think It will last a really long time except all server using utf-32 to send http header
jrockway utf-8 is a good idea 16:44
Juerd UTF-32 is generally a bad idea
jrockway it's efficient for most stuff
gaal historical reasons are sometimes very good ones
jrockway and everythign understands it
it's just inefficient for things like "strlen <utf8-text>" 16:45
Juerd UTF-32 is senseless for normal text. Its use is limited to academic context, I think.
jrockway: With proper caching, that's not as big a problem as you'd think.
TimToady and at the grapheme level you *still* have a variable-width encoding.
gaal Juerd: uh, is "normal text" "English" under that definition? 16:46
Juerd gaal: Any current language
gaal er, s/definition/claim/
moritz Juerd: why? it's really easy to work with, and with non-european charsets 2^26 chars are sometimes not enough
Juerd gaal: Including Chinese(!)
moritz s/26/16/
jrockway a lot of stuff is still ASCII
optimizing for ASCII isn't a bad idea
Juerd I suggest that you read Wikipedia's articles about UTF-16 and UTF-32 respectively.
moritz jrockway: as non-english speaker I can't agree
jrockway moritz: well, what charset is this conversation using? 16:47
Juerd moritz: It doesn't help to optimize for ASCII if that doesn't hurt non-ASCII.
moritz Juerd: ok, I'll do it
jrockway freenode would require 4x bandwidth if it switched to utf-32 16:47
moritz jrockway: I don't know what you are using ;-)
jrockway that would suck, because 99% of the conversations are ascii
moritz jrockway: no, because of compression
jrockway and the rest are iso-2022-jp :)
moritz ä 16:48
jrockway maybe
extra CPU time
Juerd jrockway: If IRC was updated to use UTF-anything, it could also be updated to use gzip
jrockway with utf-8/ascii it can just blindly pass the bits around
jrockway yeah 16:48
Juerd So the bandwidth argument, for IRC, is a very silly one :)
jrockway i'm just saying that optimizing for ASCII isn't a bad idea 16:48
Juerd The problem with IRC is that it sends almost no metadata :)
jrockway it might not be a good idea either 16:49
Juerd For IRC to support ASCII-incompatible encodings, you'd have to switch at some point
moritz Juerd: but irc _does_ support encodings differnt from ascii, doesn't it? 16:50
avar you could just send it along with MAXNICKLEN and such
wolverian moritz, well, if "completely ignoring" can be defined as "supporting" :) 16:51
avar irc is a line-based protocol where you send arbitary octets over
Juerd moritz: Not for the protocol itself.
The IRC protocol is strictly ASCII.
moritz Juerd: ok, but for content
avar no it's not
Juerd moritz: Well, as long as it doesn't contain ASCII's control characters. That excludes UTF-16 and -32. 16:52
avar the only protocol irc knows about is that swedish variant of whatever the hell
Juerd avar: That's ASCII, where {}[] are mapped to other letters :) 16:52
avar: [] are uppercase {}
(as in ascii ;))
avar does that also apply for ~ and ^ and | and \ in ascii? 16:56
"""
Because of IRC's Scandinavian origin, the characters {}|^ are
considered to be the lower case equivalents of the characters []\~,
respectively. This is a critical issue when determining the
equivalence of two nicknames or channel names.
"""
-rfc 2812 16:57
Juerd Oh, \~ too :)
Heh
What's that horrible """ thing? :)
avar PYTHON
Juerd If I had +o, I'd kick you ;)
lichtkind TimToady: thanks can i get the name of the little town near LA ?
wolverian scandinavian?! goddamn swedes hijacking everything we do.
(</joke>) 16:58
Juerd wonders why jokes so often contain profanity
moritz heja norge!
jerrylee finally pugs is compiled
TimToady lichtkind: I'd rather not.
moritz jerrylee++
lichtkind TimToady: ok
jerrylee hi moritz
moritz hie jerrylee ;-) 16:59
jerrylee why is it written in Haskell?
moritz one possible answer could be "because audrey wanted to learn haskell" 17:00
jrockway i think the offical reason is "the Reader monad"
:)
jerrylee is it going to be perl6 in future?
moritz another could be "because it's good for fast buttom-up dev"
jerrylee as i remember perl6 will be written in perl6?
jrockway yes 17:00
pugs is for prototyping
moritz jerrylee: hopefully, yes ;-)
jerrylee moritz: i see
jrockway and general fun!
jerrylee :D in some way it's fun 17:01
how do you guys test it? 17:02
moritz jerrylee: with "make smoke" 17:03
jrockway FWIW, perl6 is anything that passes the perl6 test suite 17:04
lichtkind TimToady: but i still wonder why wikipedia in most languages sees you born in duncan british columbie :)
jrockway so... perl6-on-perl6 might be the official version... but nothing's stopping you from having your own implementation
jerrylee i am afraid i don't know how to help debug, on haskell o.O 17:05
moritz already considered writing a dummy language that just prints "ok" for every test to have the first working perl6 implementation - as an aprils fools choke or something ;-)
jerrylee really agree that 17:06
jerrylee !seen 17:15
devbot6 jerrylee: Error: "seen" is not a valid command.
jerrylee ! 17:16
jerrylee is sleepy
jerrylee 's pc is still making test on pugs 17:17
time for be
time for bed
jerrylee bye guys 17:18
moritz 'night
jerrylee is worrying make test will take a very long time
bye moritz
wolverian locales generated 17:50
Juerd Thanks
wolverian you're welcome. feel free to delegate menial tasks
(those that aren't handled by debian automatically :) 17:51
fglock I've got objects working in p6-in-parrot (for some value of "objects") 18:44
there is some hope for mp6 18:45
svnbot6 r15886 | fglock++ | mp6 - added an example of p6parrot emulation of "for-loops" and "objects" 18:52
moritz is there a good reason why perl6.vim hilights kv in a different color than keys? 19:55
gaal probably not. 20:03
DarkWolf84 maybe it's just a bug 20:04
moritz DarkWolf84: "bug" is a rather harsh word for that ;-) 20:05
kv is listed as "p6KeyPropoerty", whereas keys is a "p6KeyFunc"
DarkWolf84 well then mistake is the word
gaal "oversight" 20:06
commits welcome
fglock would someone review a p6 snippet? svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-MiniPer...t-class.pl 20:14
lambdabot tinyurl.com/26ml3u
fglock I'm trying to emulate some missing features in p6-parrot 20:15
gaal what's the arg for the closure for? 20:26
also I think you need {...}(), not ()()
fglock gaal: () seems to be a syntax error
gaal
.oO( ))<>(( forever )
 20:27
?eval {"moose"}.()
evalbot_r15886 "moose" 20:27
fglock also, it doesn't work without 'my $var'
gaal ?eval {"moose"}()
evalbot_r15886 "moose"
fglock no, that's perl6-in-parrot :)
I'm working around 20:28
parrot-0.4.10 from cpan 20:29
gaal so it's ( {} ).() and the () is just for grouping? not sure if that should work...?
fglock yes, it works here
hmm - I'll try it in pugs 20:33
no, it only works on parrot - strange 20:34
geoffb Anyone happen to know the status of the Chief Rabbit? 20:42
Patterner Never trust a rabbit. 21:38
TimToady I think you meant: Never twust a wabbit. 21:45
Limbic_Region TimToady - are you still unable to compile pugs? 21:49
Patterner s/rabbit/bunny/ 21:54
(see imdb.com/title/tt0443536/quotes :) 21:55
lambdabot Title: Hoodwinked! (2005) - Memorable quotes
TimToady Limbic_Region: I wasn't having trouble, feather was. 23:41
?eval 42
evalbot_r15886 42 23:42
TimToady but looks like it succeeded

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