Upgrade to YAML::Syck 0.85 before smoking | pugscode.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4)) | "Perl 6 Today" video from YAPC::Asia: xrl.us/vw3p
Set by avar on 27 April 2007.
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mugwump darcs has revisions, there is the currently checked out revision, plus "tags" 00:21
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cmarcelo mugwump: sorry,probably I made a mistake. by revision I meant a (short) way to point to a specific situation|moment of the repository. SVN has rNNN numbers, Monotone has SHA-1 of the revision. How do you point to a specific "situation" in a darcs repo? 00:26
metaperl cmarcelo: maybe ask on #darcs
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cmarcelo metaperl: ok 00:27
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mugwump cmarcelo: with a tag 01:08
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cmarcelo mugwump: (I've just find that in darcs manual, tks) 01:13
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Salzh what does the word "Apocalyse" mean in the following sentence: 02:24
People get scared when they hear the word Apocalypse, but here I mean it in the good sense: a Revealing.
allbery_b an apocalypse is a revelation.
the "usual" meaning is tied to Christian notions of the Second Coming, hence lovely things like a world-shattering war 02:25
Salzh why people will scared to hear the word
allbery_b right
avar they better, jesus is back and he's *pissed*! 02:26
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spinclad look busy 03:06
offby1 spinclad: that's my favorite one but I was too timid to mention it here
spinclad why cater to outside apocalypticists? we've got our own, and they're much better! 03:08
the Apocalypses of Larry 03:10
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coke Oooh, I found a bug in S03. 03:15
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Coke seen TimToady ? 03:15
gah. different bot semantics!
allbery_b @seen TimToady
lambdabot TimToady is in #perl6. I last heard TimToady speak 3h 57m 24s ago.
Coke ... and as I type out the bug to @tell him, I see it's not a bug at all! curses. 03:17
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allbery_b heh 03:19
offby1 shucks, I hate it when there is no bug. 03:23
Coke 'twas merely the ^ syntax, which I hadn't taken into account when converting the tests to a more parrot-like form. 03:45
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fglock my local v6.pm now parses 1/3 of Perl-6.0.0-STD-cheat 04:56
offby1 hmm
TimToady fglock++
fglock it is doing just 4 lines/second
probably backtracking a lot 04:57
TimToady well, hey, that's only about 15 minutes 05:00
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fglock the parser may get finished before the end of the week 05:06
the only usable backend is perl5, currently - it may take some weeks to get it debugged
later & 05:08
TimToady night
fglock TimToady: good night 05:09
05:10 fglock left
geoffb Wow, fglock is just rocking. 05:10
offby1 I think it's all the beer 05:11
geoffb Does he have a $day_job?
avar $day_job--
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offby1 just in case it's not been pointed out many times before -- $day_job-- is pronounced "day job double-plus ungood" 05:13
geoffb $day_job++ # Feeding and housing family
$day_job-- # Limiting hacking 05:14
avar $day_job-- # part of the capitalist conspiracy
geoffb If I got uber-rich from something like a mega-lottery or such, I'd probably start a business and hire a bunch of the Perl 6 people, so we'd all have cool @day_jobs 05:16
Sadly, I have not won a lottery yet. Somebody get working on that. ;-)
avar @lottery_numbers.pick(8)
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
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avar argh 05:22
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dduncan ?eval @lottery_numbers.pick(8) 05:33
evalbot_r16148 ()
dduncan I seem to recall that used to complain about @lottery_numbers not being defined ... or maybe its following one-liner (strict off) rules? 05:34
avar probably the latter
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VanilleBert Upgrade to YAML::Syck 0.85 before smoking | pugscode.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4)) | "Perl 6 Today" video from YAPC::Asia: xrl.us/v6op 07:20
agentzh moose 07:21
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svnbot6 r16150 | agentz++ | util/testgraph.pl - worked around the number interpretation problem on the smoke server 07:24
agentzh A v6/v6-MiniPerl6/lib/MiniPerl6/Python/Runtime.pm
svk is still problematic...
r16149 maybe a bogus commit. 07:25
MiniPerl6/Python/Runtime.pm has actually been removed by karhu in r16126 07:28
sigh. my svk automatically readded that back. 07:29
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agentzh i think i should not use svk with pugs repos at least :( 07:30
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svnbot6 r16151 | agentz++ | reverted back the bogus commint (r16149). my svk was misbehaving. :( 07:33
agentzh reconstructs a pugs tree using svn. 07:34
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agentzh Upgrade to YAML::Syck 0.85 before smoking | moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/ | pugscode.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4)) | "Perl 6 Today" video from YAPC::Asia: xrl.us/v6op
agentzh ?eval 1+2 07:43
evalbot_r16148 3
agentzh everything is working now, cool.
07:46 Salzh joined
agentzh Salzh: hi 07:46
Salzh == Sal Zhong ?
Alias_ Is YAML::Tiny good enough to handle the smoking data? 07:50
:)
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agentzh Alias_: YAML:Tiny is more light-weight than syck? 07:52
Alias_ Depends on what light-weightness you need 07:54
It's about the same size in memory
agentzh and the speed?
Alias_ It's a little slower, and can't support streams or braced mode structures and circular deps
But it doesn't need a compiler 07:55
agentzh k
Alias_ And it's easily embeddable
TAP::Parser has it embedded already
And of course, pure perl
agentzh fair enough :)
Alias_ Of course, if you use streams or complex stuff (tags, directives, circulars) it's of no real use
Basically, it's ideal for things like META.yaml 07:56
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Alias_ And other light-weight uses 07:56
agentzh i'll try YAML::Tiny to parse my smoke.yml produced by pugs.
Alias_ In fact, not having to have CPAN depend on Syck or YAML.pm was my main driver
If you have samples of smoke.yml I can include on in the YAML::Tiny test suite
agentzh really?
Alias_ The tests ONLY consist of parsing of sample YAML fragments and comparing the results (optionally) with YAML.pm and YAML::Syck 07:57
agentzh it's already an auto-updated one on the web.
Alias_ It does very little actual struct vs content tests
agentzh Alias_: perlcabal.org/smoke.yml
Alias_: it's produced by the feather daily auto-smoke using YAML::Syck 07:58
Alias_ ok
agentzh believes TINY is a good thing.
Alias_ hmm
nope, not gunna work
agentzh why?
Alias_ exclude_re: !!perl/scalar:Regexp ~
Directives aren't supported
And things like object embedding
agentzh oh 07:59
Alias_ objects aren't supported either
agentzh what do you mean by "directives" please?
Alias_ The !! stuff
Maybe I'm using the wrong term there
agentzh k
Alias_ Basically, it supports what you might call the "JSON" subset of structs 08:00
comments, scalar, array, hash
agentzh no circular data structures and no objects
Alias_ yup
agentzh fair enough 08:01
the pugs smoke mechanism blesses the data tree with appropriate class names.
Alias_ Other than the objects for the results and the regexp in there, it looks like it should be ok
Large file though 08:02
agentzh *nod*
Alias_ It's probably somewhat out of the scope of YAML::Tiny :)
agentzh even syck takes quite a while to handle that on my new machine.
Alias_ But if you wanted to make the serialize/deserialize flatten those objects/regexp to struct equivalents, and then convert them back on deserialize, it would handle it 08:03
I think
I'd want to check those error messages work ok
agentzh blessing is not that hard to handle, it seems. 08:04
offby1 gesundheit 08:05
avar bless you 08:06
agentzh is testing the smoke-server 08:09
cool, the smokeserver no longer reports weird smoke durations like "0.45Ā min" 08:12
although such figures may excite some people who are not watching closely. 08:13
offby1 throws a glass of cold water on himself
agentzh well, time unit calculation issues. 08:14
heh, lanny has a very fast machine according to his smoke report for win32. 08:16
avar offby1: weren't you spreading propaganda about porting sbcl to parrot some time ago?
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agentzh TimToady++ # submitting regular smoke reports from both linux and win32 08:20
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svnbot6 r16152 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : added more pod sections to AST.pm and QDRDBMS.pm 08:51
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Alias_ frets 09:49
I really need to get the PITA code integrated :(
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coke @seen chromatic? 11:37
lambdabot I haven't seen chromatic?.
coke @seen chromatic
lambdabot I haven't seen chromatic.
coke (stupid bot)
cmarcelo ?seen chromatic
lambdabot I haven't seen chromatic.
cmarcelo (I thought another bot would reply for ?seen command)
agentzh chromatic was last seen on 2006-11-09 11:38
(saying "You need at least 5.6 if you want the warnings pragma too. ") 11:39
agentzh is not a bot.
oh, that was an unpleasant day. 11:41
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cmarcelo agentzh: but... do you keep logs, right? 11:43
agentzh cmarcelo: log search
that's all.
cmarcelo I mean, old logs from colabti are still up or do you keep your own logging? 11:45
agentzh the former.
it's has been down for a while, but still good enough :) 11:47
(i mean the completeness) 11:48
cmarcelo agentzh: are you hacking something on Perl 6 these days? 11:51
agentzh cmarcelo: nothing much. just setup up the auto-smoke on feather lately :) 11:53
want to have another look on PCR and rewrite some of my compilers. 11:54
cmarcelo cool. it auto-uploads the smoke to smokeserv too?
agentzh sure :)
cmarcelo :)
agentzh daily smoke :)
the auto-smoking results are also used to mark the synopses on feather as well. 11:55
see perlcabal.org/syn/S04 as an example :) 11:56
lambdabot Title: S04
cmarcelo agentzh++ 11:57
agentzh thanks :)
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Zaba moin guys 14:38
if i install pugs, will it break perl5 which i'd like to use most of time? 14:39
agentzh Zaba: no.
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Zaba or does it depend on distro? 14:40
agentzh i think pugs only installs p6 modules to a separate directory
dmq pokes avar
agentzh and some p5 modules to your perl5 installation.
Zaba hm 14:41
and about the executable?
agentzh on Win32, pugs.exe installs into perl\bin
on linux, maybe /usr/local/bin
or something like that.
Zaba oh 14:42
is it pugs not perl6?
agentzh pugs is a perl6 implementation.
Zaba and does it affect the /usr/bin/perl symlink? 14:43
agentzh, i know
i thought the executable is perl6 not pugs
agentzh the executable is pugs.
Zaba (as perl5 is perl5.8.8 w/ symlink perl
and does the symlink exist/being modified?
agentzh not "perl" or "perl6"
Zaba ok
agentzh i don't think so.
Zaba installs pugs
pugs has native OO support right? 14:44
oh
does it require parrot?
agentzh afaik, pugs's OO support is incomplete.
by default, pugs doesn't depend on parrot. 14:45
Zaba hm
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Zaba [ebuild N ] dev-lang/parrot-0.4.6 USE="gdbm python -gmp -test" 3,368 kB 14:45
[ebuild N ] dev-lang/pugs-6.2.13 6,679 kB
agentzh if you can enable parrot embedding via an environment specified in the INSTALL file.
Zaba dies cause of heat and hot tea
hmm 14:46
i hoped pugswould resolve my problem..
I like perl, i dislike python/ruby, but i *need* good complete OO 14:47
agentzh Zaba: maybe you would like to take a look at perlcabal.org/syn to check out what works and what does not work in pugs in terms of the specs.
lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
agentzh Zaba: we're currently working on it. pugs 6.28 will give you real OO support. 14:48
Zaba oh
nice
agentzh currently a lot of OO features have already been implemented.
Zaba nice 14:49
agentzh but the MO stuff is not ready at this moment.
MO == MetaObject
Zaba agentzh, when will pugs be released?
agentzh you mean 6.28?
Zaba no, the release
agentzh there are already many Pugs releases on CPAN.
Zaba maybe .28 too 14:50
agentzh, but it's alpha isn't it?
agentzh true
Zaba well
agentzh you mean perl 6.0.0?
Zaba yes
agentzh by christmas :)
Zaba hm
Zaba looks where christmas is 14:51
doh.
._.
agentzh, too bad.. i hope betas/rcs will be usable too
agentzh why not contribute to perl 6 and make it happen *sooner*? 14:52
Zaba because i don't know haskell
agentzh Zaba: you can contribute to pugs by writing Perl 6 and Perl 5 code.
Zaba orly?
how?
agentzh our test suite is written in pure Perl 6 :)
Zaba aha
agentzh and there're perl6-on-perl5 compilers in the pugs tree. 14:53
it's another Perl 6 implementation which does *NOT* depend on pugs.
Zaba o'rly??
which? 14:54
agentzh see v6.pm on CPAN :)
search.cpan.org/~fglock/v6-alpha-0.016/lib/v6.pm
lambdabot Title: v6 - An experimental Perl 6 implementation - search.cpan.org
Zaba aha 14:55
agentzh and there're perl6-on-perl6 compilers too.
see v6/ in the pugs tree.
they're mini-perl6 and kinda-perl6 compilers.
these implementations are written in a subset of Perl 6 themselves.
Zaba agentzh, i actually liked that perl5 had one official release 14:56
here you don't know what to use, appears that there's both pugs and parrot :p
agentzh in terms of completeness, pugs is the best of these efforts right now. 14:57
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Zaba i understand 14:57
agentzh parallel efforts are good for finding the best way of doing things.
Zaba still, there isn't 'official' perl6
agentzh we believe they'll eventually converge some time in the future. 14:58
larry has clarified in the spec that there won't be an official perl 6 implementation but there will be an official Perl 6 language. 14:59
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agentzh Zaba: see perlcabal.org/syn/S01 15:00
lambdabot Title: S01
agentzh "Perl 6 is anything that passes the official test suite."
the official test suite "defines" the official language somehow. 15:01
Zaba but there's no official implementation - won't that end up like HTML did?
;-)
agentzh we hope that will end up like Haskell did.
so we need to do it *right* 15:02
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agentzh that's what the test suite and specs are for. 15:02
Zaba: would you like a commit bit? ;) 15:03
Zaba ?
agentzh a commit bit to the pugs subversion repos.
veritos Zaba: the right to push your changes to the central repository so you can change it how you will. 15:04
Zaba i know
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Zaba but i don't have anything to :p 15:04
veritos Zaba: nor i but i have one ;p
agentzh maybe polishing the test suite?
and adding smartlinks?
learning Perl 6 by writing tests is fun :) 15:05
Zaba heh
wait
agentzh (and also reading and tweaking existing tests)
Zaba (3+6+3)/7
agentzh ? 15:06
Zaba nvm
agentzh ?eval (3+6+3)/7
15:06 evalbot_r16148 is now known as evalbot_r16152
evalbot_r16152 12/7 15:06
Zaba ?eval 12/7 15:07
evalbot_r16152 12/7
agentzh it's a rational number. :)
Zaba but wcalc can do it
and octave cat
can*
agentzh ?eval 12./7 15:08
evalbot_r16152 Error: ā¤Unexpected "/"ā¤expecting ".", "\187", ">>", "=", operator name, qualified identifier, variable name, "...", "--", "++", "i", array subscript, hash subscript or code subscript
agentzh ?eval 12.0/7.0
evalbot_r16152 12/7
agentzh it's just too clever.
veritos ?eval sin(2)
Zaba if pugs itself says the same, i can say it is a bug :p
agentzh a behavior inherited from the haskell simantics.
evalbot_r16152 0.9092974268256817
rgs ?eval 1/0 15:09
veritos Inf
Zaba 0_o
evalbot_r16152 Error: Illegal division by zero
Zaba ah
lol
veritos vb.net can do it ;)
agentzh evalbot == pugs
Zaba so what am i doing: eating supper
nvm
so what am i doing: an irc perl bot (not new)
but i want it completely modular
which is sane to do with OO 15:10
and is hard to do w/o OO
agentzh there're already many Perl 6 modules runnable by pugs
see ext/
Zaba IO::Socket is all i need in perl5 for communications 15:11
but the problem is, perl5 has no pure OO 15:12
agentzh Zaba: i think you should give Moose a shot.
Moose provides really wonderful OO to perl 5.
Zaba hm
veritos Zaba: it's really easy to use. feels like perl6 with perl5 syntax.
Zaba i thought of ruby for a while, and it just proved it sucks and my opinion of it is _right_ 15:13
agentzh and it's now production ready.
Zaba hm 15:14
(IRC bots in C++ are dumb, otherwise i'd make one already ._.) 15:15
agentzh there is a irc bot in Perl 6.
*an
Zaba oh dude
there are irc bots in perl5 too
and i still write one :p
agentzh that is evalbot6 you are talking to.
Zaba the point is writing 15:16
actually
releasing it to the world it very rare
?eval print 10**100
it's sloow
evalbot_r16152 OUTPUT[10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000] Bool::True 15:17
veritos yep, hashkell supports bignums iirc
Zaba ?eval print 10**(10**100)
>:-D
evalbot_r16152 OUTPUT[Inf] Bool::True
Zaba googolplex is TOO large i suppose
even for haskell 15:18
i fail on haskell =(
just fail 15:19
woot
g-cpan rules
Zaba never thought it would be SO easy. 15:21
hm ok 15:22
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Zaba needs to rewrite his bot from scratch, now using Moose. AGAIN!! 15:22
oh
agentzh Zaba: have fun :) 15:23
Zaba agentzh, fun, this version is fifth! x(
all previous were zbots 15:28
now i need a better name >_>
[particle] moosebot 15:29
Zaba no
i don't want to tell everyone i use moose, or they will clone my bot in their implementations >_>
Zaba calls it SCRAM 15:41
TimToady unscrams 15:44
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Zaba agentzh, is there any tutorial on Moose? 16:10
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[particle] zaba: the documentation is quite good, including many examples 16:12
Zaba Oh
Zaba forgot about perldoc
thanks
[particle] Moose::Cookbook
agentzh Zaba: look for the cookbook here: search.cpan.org/~stevan/Moose-0.20/ 16:13
lambdabot Title: Stevan Little / Moose-0.20 - search.cpan.org
Zaba ok
agentzh & 16:15
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Zaba #!C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Perl\\6\\1031\\PERL.EXE /W <-- would be my worst nightmare 16:35
glad i'm not using windows anymore :p
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svnbot6 r16153 | lwall++ | print and say default to $*DEFOUT. 16:48
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davidfetter hello 17:01
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davidfetter has anybody here gotten v6 running on fc6 using fc6's packaging system? 17:03
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TimToady davidfetter: I would be inclined to doubt it. 17:20
davidfetter is not worthy :)
TimToady none of us are...would davidfetter like a commit bit? 17:21
davidfetter i really don't know enough about perl6
TimToady none of us do. :)
davidfetter i'd want to talk with the fedora packagers about how best to introduce the underlying perl packages to fedora 17:22
TimToady they're probably waiting for "real" Perl 6 before they think about it. 17:23
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TimToady and redhat currently has a bit of a python bias 17:23
davidfetter they may be, or may not. i notice that a lot of perl modules with version < 1.0 are there, at least in -extras
[particle] somehow deadrat and python just seem to go together....
TimToady anyway, don't let me discourage you! :) 17:25
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TimToady after all, I use fc6... 17:26
though I just get v6 directly from pugs/
must admit I haven't played much with v6 lately, but that may change now that fglock is making v6 understand src/perl6/Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm 17:27
avar davidfetter: <1.0 in perl modules generally doesn't mean the same thing as it does elsewhere 17:29
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rindolf Hi all. 17:52
Hi TimToady, avar
Hi [particle]
diakopter who wants to implement Perl 6 in Microsoft's DLR
jrockway who wants another partial perl 6 implementation? 17:55
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svnbot6 r16154 | lwall++ | More IO spec whackage 17:57
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TimToady diakopter: at this point I'm thinking much more about getting the frontend fully implemented than any particular backend. If the frontend is there, the backends will follow along naturally, in sort of a mammalian locomotive way. 18:01
Yaakov When your backend isn't following your frontend you have serious problems. 18:03
[particle] luge. 18:04
Yaakov If I was on a luge, I would have serious problems.
SamB that reminds me of how GHC parses the syntax for associated type synonyms, but the typechecker chokes on it... 18:05
gnuvince TimToady: Pugs doesn't yet run STD.pm, right?
matsi q 18:07
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[particle] gnuvince: nothing parses it completely yet afaik 18:08
gnuvince [particle]: thank you 18:09
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TimToady pugs can parse the cheated version, but doesn't run it yet 18:16
[particle] oh, i thought there were still parsing bugs... that's good news. 18:17
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TimToady there are still parsing bugs--that's what the cheating is for 18:22
oZ_ Hey, guys. Forgive the n00b, but what exactly am I doing wrong when I do a make install of pugs and it pretty much nukes my core perl 5 modules with perl 6 versions? 18:28
wolverian make install seems to be broken. none of us really use it. 18:29
integral You may be the only person who uses 'make install'...
wolverian (which is probably the reason why it is broken.)
integral Someone should give you a commitbit to fix it :-)
oZ_ It's possible. ;) It worked on the last make install I did on that box, which was about 3 months ago.
offby1 geez, it should be deleted if it doesn't work and isn't going to be fixed 18:30
otherwise it's an "attractive nuisance"
oZ_ I'm just happy I archived my library directory.
integral Well, feel free to "fix" it by deleting it.
oZ_ Those of you who develop against pugs, do you make, symlink.. and then what with the lib directories?
integral you just configure pugs to load from them, -I, use lib, etc 18:31
oZ_ That was my first inclination, just seeing if there were any other tricks. ;)
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svnbot6 r16155 | lwall++ | Put in $*DEFERR too. 18:48
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svnbot6 r16156 | lwall++ | More IO and Functions whackage 22:45
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rhr TimToady: should IO *io have a sigil? 23:12
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rhr also, can we get a spec on Pipe.to/Pipe.from or whatever you decide it should be? 23:14
23:18 prism joined
svnbot6 r16157 | lwall++ | typo noted by rhr++ 23:19
TimToady rhr: what do you think the pipe spec should say, and do you have a commit bit? :) 23:24
IO.pod is still under pugs so that anyone can hack on it... 23:25
this time feather is slow because two people are running ghc at the same time 23:29
[particle] maybe 'ghc' should be wrapped in a script which sets nice and ulimit 23:31
23:34 SamB joined
avar
.oO( distcc for ghc )
 23:35
23:35 SamB joined
avar TimToady: I just implemented what's needed for :rw on p5 23:35
rhr TimToady: not sure I'm confident enough to break new ground on the spec :) 23:38
TimToady given the history of lvalue strings in p5, I think I can confidently predict that someone will figure out a way to break it accidentally. :)
but that says more about p5 than about you...
rhr: doesn't take confidence, just foolhardiness
rhr and I don't have a commit bit, you can send one to [email@hidden.address]
I assume they'd just be variants of open 23:41
TimToady I will, but at the moment it looks like commitbit is down on svn.pugscode.org for some reason
Yeah, they're just strange constructors, or factories, or something 23:42
strange in that a single call is returning two new entangled objects 23:43
rhr how's that?
TimToady see man pipe(2), which returns two fds, one for reading, one for writing 23:44
rhr oh, ok. I was just thinking about the aut-fork case
*auto-fork 23:45
[particle] filesystem entanglement
TimToady on the other hand, if you're looking more at the "|..." commands, then... right
rhr cooking dinner & 23:46
offby1 drinking wine spo-de-o 23:47
23:52 polettix joined
TimToady hmm, my work firewall seems to be plugging port 9999. can someone else send rhr a commitbit? 23:54
otherwise I'll have to wait till I get home 23:55
[particle] commitbit.pugscode.org isn't responding, seems
TimToady strange, I can telnet svn.pugscode.org 9999 which is where I think commitbit redirects to 23:57
but only from home, not from work
loadavg is 13, so maybe it's just slow for you... 23:58
[particle] svn.pugscode.org:9999 works
TimToady dns wackiness maybe

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