pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4]
Set by diakopter on 25 June 2007.
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pugs_svnbot r16796 | Darren_Duncan++ | trunk: 00:46
: ext/Muldis-DB/ : Muldis D now has 2 representation formats (concrete, abstract) rather than 3 (relations, asts, strings)
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16796
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pugs_svnbot r16797 | agentz++ | trunk: 01:15
: merged from agentz/PCR down to the trunk
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16797
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pasteling "evalbot_r16796" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at sial.org/pbot/25970 01:16
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pugs_svnbot r16798 | kolibrie++ | trunk: 02:06
: initial import of regex/modifiers.t
: * I noticed that :c was not working
: * there are more modifiers that should be tested
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16798
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kolibrie maybe the :c tests should be marked todo 02:09
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agentzh
.oO( hacking on win32 is painful )
 02:10
dazjorz heh, the pugs_svnbot raises karma for each commit? 02:13
that must've been one reason to reach r16798 02:14
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agentzh indeed 02:14
i can no longer cheat by breaking the log messages ;)
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pugs_svnbot r16799 | agentz++ | trunk: 02:21
: [perl5/PCR]
: t/lib/Regex: fixed a vim skewup
: t/lib/Emitter.pm: generated the updated test
: scripts (*.t_) using the actual outputs under t/
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16799
pasteling "evalbot_r16798" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at sial.org/pbot/25971 02:23
pugs_svnbot r16800 | agentz++ | trunk: 02:27
: PCR - t::lib::Emitter - generates *.t_ under t/emitter/ instead
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16800
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pugs_svnbot r16801 | agentz++ | trunk: 02:28
: PCR - calls use_test_base() in Makefile.PL to bundle Test::Base with inc/.
: note that it's not required for end-users to install Test::Base but it's required for developers to install T::B 0.53 or better :)
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16801
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dazjorz agentzh: alternatively, you could do one larger commit, with the only disadvantage being your karma doesn't rise that quickly. ;) 02:28
diakopter agentzh++ agentzh++ agentzh++ 02:29
pugs_svnbot r16802 | agentz++ | trunk:
: PCR - added *.t_ to MANIFEST.SKIP and updated MANIFEST.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16802
agentzh dazjorz: sorry for the noises but i've already got used to small commits... 02:30
pasteling "evalbot_r16800" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at sial.org/pbot/25972 02:33
agentzh @tell fglock see r16801 02:35
sigh. lambdabot is away...
diakopter I think lambdabot bit the dust
er, I know it did
agentzh heh
diakopter all the hateflames killed it.
agentzh misses lambdabot. 02:36
dazjorz agentzh: no problem to me :) I don't usually work on projects with a lot of people working on the same files, so I commit at most five times a day
agentzh: next to that, my commitbot in #codeyard spits out only one line for each commit, and pasts the log message and file info (changed files, etc) to paster.dazjorz.com, so it's not as noisy =) 02:37
agentzh dazjorz: i prefer small commits because i often forget what i've done
dazjorz agentzh: that's what we have svn diff for ;)
agentzh is lazy ;)
nmake is tooooooo slow. i'd go home and continue hacking in my ubuntu box 02:39
dazjorz heh
[04:37] * agentzh is lazy ;)
...he said after the fifth commit
fourth, sorry
agentzh later &
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Aankhen`` <@diakopter> moritz: (since it urlizes the revision number already in the first line) # just had a thought: you could prefix an [off] in the mean time. <G> 03:45
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Aankhen`` wonders why the bot continues to put a : in front of commit messages. 03:45
Aankhen`` also wonders whether linking SXX to the spec.pugscode.org document would be useful. 03:48
unobe Aankhen``: doesn't SXX already do that? moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/out.pl?ch...26#id_l101 03:59
or do you mean without the line number?
Aankhen`` The latter, yes. 04:03
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pugs_svnbot r16803 | Aankhen++ | trunk: 04:26
: * [irclog] fresh batch of abbreviations.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16803
r16804 | Aankhen++ | trunk: 04:35
: * [irclog] style tweaks.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16804
pasteling "evalbot_r16803" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at sial.org/pbot/25973 04:37
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Aankhen`` ?eval "$(<1 2>.pick)" 04:38
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evalbot_r16804 "\$(<1 2>.pick)" 04:38
Aankhen`` Is $(...) supposed to interpolate?
TimToady yes, it is 04:40
Aankhen`` Okay, just wanted to confirm.
Hmm, maybe svnbot's diff link could be integrated into the first line. 04:41
Like so: r16804 | Aankhen++ | trunk | dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16804
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unobe Aankhen``: that looks nice :-) 04:49
lidden ?eval "{<1 2>.pick}" 04:54
evalbot_r16804 "1"
TimToady ?eval "{ $(<1 2>.pick) }" 04:59
evalbot_r16804 "1"
TimToady ?eval "{ $(my $x = <1 2>.pick) } $x"
evalbot_r16804 "2 "
TimToady ?eval "$(my $x = <1 2>.pick) $x" 05:00
evalbot_r16804 "\$(my = <1 2>.pick) "
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TimToady that oughta work 05:00
?eval $(my $x = <1 2>.pick) ~ $x 05:02
evalbot_r16804 "22"
TimToady and that's what it should do, give or take a space or two
amnesiac is pick like a random choser?
TimToady no, it's not like a random chooser, it *is* a random chooser. :)
amnesiac yay! 05:03
nice nice then
TimToady it gets better
?eval (1..52).pick(5)
evalbot_r16804 (30, 46, 13, 17, 21)
amnesiac :O
TimToady ?eval (1..10).pick(*)
evalbot_r16804 (5, 3, 8, 2, 10, 7, 1, 6, 9, 4)
amnesiac a shuffle?
TimToady and there's your shuffle 05:04
amnesiac yay!
TimToady and it can even be a lazy shuffle
amnesiac all of that is implemented in Haskell only? 05:07
TimToady currently 05:08
presumably the parrot version would not be in Haskell. :) 05:09
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amnesiac TimToady, have you guys benchmarked parrot impl and pugs one? 05:10
of *anything*
TimToady no, but parrot tends to run faster than p5, and pugs is known to be about 170 times slower than p5, give or take 05:11
pugs has had basically no optimization done to it
except for slurping in precompiled Prelude and such
amnesiac TimToady, and is there a point in optimizing pugs? I mean, everything is just a prototype to be cleaned later? or just stays as a prototype implementation? 05:13
TimToady depends on lots of things 05:14
mostly it just depends on who gets motivated to do what when 05:15
amnesiac well, thing is.. (at least me) Haskell is not as popular as C, at least among most of the Perlers... 05:16
TimToady eventually most of the compiler will be written in Perl 6, so it's really only the runtime that would have to pick a different language for efficiency 05:17
if the Perl 6 compiler gets good enough, even large gobs of the runtime could be written in Perl 6
we already have a Prelude, after all. 05:18
for instance, .pick could pretty easily be written in the Prelude, though it isn't currently 05:19
amnesiac so, the random number generator, and the shuffle algorithm, is Haskell builtin? 05:20
TimToady and longer term, most of this stuff *should* be in Perl 6 at least optionally to support portability
currently Haskell
amnesiac okip 05:21
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carbs ) 05:32
PuricMic )
ctrlc )
nyzer )
prez )
tau )
Astral13 )
tripper )
sam667 )
ahm66 )
ParteaUrata )
elguapopt )
dcmofo )
jaumen )
pesp )
i-v )
Freakall )
nela26 )
ren120 )
dejeana )
bahamutx7 )
Basana )
Escandalos )
darkvibrator )
hellstorm )
seppl )
redevil )
Dt-Hol )
SaMoaraEa )
_cobraboy )
KrayVi )
average_j )
danyella )
TheSpiritul )
Njeri )
peek-a-boo )
ScHyy )
razan23 )
thorqua )
FLORIN_30 )
Ana}{ )
darkmoon )
Delta )
drunk35634 )
crisi_05 )
duck^down )
rirora )
AN-R20 )
miguelo )
georgiana}{ )
BucCuLuciu )
jcxp )
xaymfp )
pgz-a[vol] )
TimToady 'bout that time...
tatrocity )
pening )
bakibandi )
PuricMic :)
carbs :)
prez :)
tau :)
Astral13 :)
darkvibrator :)
hellstorm :)
redevil :)
KrayVi :)
danyella :)
ctrlc :)
nyzer :)
TheSpiritul :)
ScHyy :)
Ana}{ :)
average_j :)
thorqua :)
Delta :)
ahm66 :)
ParteaUrata :)
dcmofo :)
jaumen :)
pesp :)
i-v :)
drunk35634 :)
bahamutx7 :)
Basana :)
Escandalos :)
bakibandi :)
seppl :)
Dt-Hol :)
Freakall :)
nela26 :)
_cobraboy :)
ren120 :)
BucCuLuciu :)
tripper :)
sam667 :)
SaMoaraEa :)
darkmoon :)
xaymfp :)
jcxp :)
Njeri :)
peek-a-boo :)
razan23 :)
elguapopt :)
FLORIN_30 :)
tatrocity :)
rirora :)
AN-R20 :)
miguelo :)
georgiana}{ :)
dejeana :)
pgz-a[vol] :)
crisi_05 :)
duck^down :)
pening :)
carbs :)
prez :)
tau :)
PuricMic :)
thorqua :)
ctrlc :)
nyzer :)
ParteaUrata :)
Ana}{ :)
Delta :)
KrayVi :)
average_j :)
danyella :)
TheSpiritul :)
tripper :)
sam667 :)
SaMoaraEa :)
FLORIN_30 :)
Freakall :)
nela26 :)
_cobraboy :)
Astral13 :)
ren120 :)
dejeana :)
xaymfp :)
drunk35634 :)
bahamutx7 :)
Basana :)
crisi_05 :)
duck^down :)
Escandalos :)
darkvibrator :)
bakibandi :)
hellstorm :)
seppl :)
redevil :)
Dt-Hol :)
ahm66 :)
dcmofo :)
jaumen :)
pesp :)
i-v :)
jcxp :)
Njeri :)
darkmoon :)
rirora :)
miguelo :)
georgiana}{ :)
razan23 :)
elguapopt :)
peek-a-boo :)
AN-R20 :)
tatrocity :)
pgz-a[vol] :)
pening :)
BucCuLuciu :)
ScHyy :)
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Aankhen`` buu: Why's dalekbot so slow? 05:34
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TimToady flooding avoidance? 05:34
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Aankhen`` Yeh, but this way is pretty much useless, isn't it? 05:34
TimToady depends on how many zombies they have
05:34 dalekbot sets mode: +b *!*@70.160.broadband6.iol.cz
Aankhen`` (Aside from preventing them from returning, which I'll admit is definitely needed.) 05:34
05:35 dalekbot sets mode: +b *!*@85.69.124.59, dalekbot sets mode: +b *!*@c911343c.rjo.virtua.com.br
AfterDeath does dalekbot use POE? 05:36
Aankhen`` PoCo-IRC, yes.
AfterDeath :<
Aankhen`` buu: You might want to turn off PoCo-IRC's flood protection and write your own. :-)
TimToady I have some hot sauce named "After Death" :) 05:37
Aankhen`` (Just kidding.)
AfterDeath I wrote a flawless flood protection mod, but it's for Net::IRC :|
Aankhen`` ā€¦although one thing that might help is to group bans.
TimToady they all seem to come on within a few seconds of each other 05:38
05:38 dalekbot sets mode: +b *!*@211.55.49.103
Jmax PoCo-IRC has built-in flood protection 05:38
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AfterDeath With my flood protection, you still get an initial burst of 5 messages or so 05:39
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Aankhen`` 398 lines marked as spam... woo. 05:51
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Aankhen`` Yah, go dalekbot. 05:52
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metaxyy_fw Abrupt (that is to say, IRC-appropriate) question from a random coder: the traffic to this channel in the logs has followed a major downward trend. Can I take this to mean that a lot of the dev talk is moving to some other venue which I've never read about? 05:57
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TimToady a lot of stuff is currently going on irc.perl.org's #parrot, and last week on #hackathon 06:01
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TimToady a lot of us #perl6'ers have been off conferencing 06:02
and audrey is still in recovery mode from her illness earlier this year, among other things 06:04
06:04 dalekbot sets mode: +b *!*@85.136.148.151.dyn.user.ono.com
TimToady and when audrey is unable to participate, the other haskellers tend not to feel confident enough to mess with her code. 06:06
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metaxyy_fw Er... 06:06
That was a little like having a theological question answered by God ;) 06:07
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TimToady and basically right now we're concentrated on getting the standard grammar bootstrapped onto P5 and parrot 06:07
as a long term goal, with different folks approaching that from different directions 06:08
metaxyy_fw So, as long as The Man himself is here, let me clarify something that (short of reading through pugs source) is difficult to extract from the apocalypses and the like 06:09
TimToady mostly we all miss audrey very much, and hope she gets better soon, but are all quite willing to give her all the time she needs to get there.
what would you like to know? 06:10
metaxyy_fw Is there a literal rep for ASTs or is it an abstract thing that macros can generate fairly effectively with that closure-ish syntax, though not quite manipulate as intensively as e.g. a hash? 06:11
TimToady well, $ast.perl should print out a literal rep of an AST, but mostly we deal with it in the abstract as a tree 06:12
quasi-quoting makes that pretty easy
'course, it's not implemented yet
or at least not completely
macros is one of the last things in the official pugs plan 06:13
metaxyy_fw The thing I have in mind (not that I'm stumping for it, since it would likely be rather hard) is something like the direct code twiddling that homoiconic languages like Lisp and Tcl could do
Those always have bland Polish syntaxes though since the structures would be agonizingly complex otherwise
TimToady I don't doubt that someone will come up with such an AST rep 06:14
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metaxyy_fw You mean as a package or the like (since Perl6 is so perversely, impossibly extensible), not necessarily in the core, right? 06:15
TimToady it'll look like a bunch of nested constructors, mostly, so we're pretty close to being able to write such in native p6
it's not clear what "core" means these days 06:16
but certainly if it's very useful, we'll want to have it close to hand
metaxyy_fw In the traditional frankenstinian Perl development mode ;)
(in the best possible sense, obviously <g>) 06:17
TimToady mostly we have to be very clear about what our names mean
which is why we're taking so much care about the module naming scheme 06:18
buu Hrm.
TimToady you want to avoid a lot of context dependencies there
so we include version and naming authority in the "long name"
a consistent naming scheme means we can actually distribute the bits better 06:19
anyway, AST stuff is as likely to be "core" as anything 06:20
metaxyy_fw You're essentially saying by the time 6 comes out, it'll probably be homoiconic, which is yet another awesome kitchen sink <g> 06:21
Aankhen`` Sorry to interrupt, but what is "homoiconic"?
metaxyy_fw It means the language is written in a data type that it can itself store (Lisp and lists, Tcl and strings and... pretty much nothing else.) 06:22
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Aankhen`` Ah, right. 06:22
I didn't realize Tcl was homiconic too. 06:23
metaxyy_fw I don't know if the literal rep has to be the same as the one you code in for it to count, which what Larry's proposing wouldn't be, but it's close at any rate.
TimToady it only has to be isomorphic to homoiconic :) 06:24
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TimToady and with an official grammar to translate between, I think it can be isomorphic, mostly 06:24
shachaf Does Template Haskell count? 06:25
metaxyy_fw Aankhen: Yeah, e.g. "if" is just a function that you pass a string in a mini-language for expressions for the condition, a string of code for the true condition, and a string of code for the false condition (optional but invariably used placeholder arg "else" between 2 and 3). Much like the if in lisp, but with the sugary else and the DSL for infix expressions for the condition, which both make it more readable. 06:26
Aankhen`` metaxyy_fw: "make it more readable" is debatable. ;-) 06:28
metaxyy_fw Aankhen: Are you implying that anything is less readable than Lisp? ;) 06:31
TimToady Tcl, like Lisp, basically imposes its One True Grammar on the text, and things are very flexible within that constraint. Perl 6 does something similar, except it hands back control of the One True Grammar to the user, such that we can pretty much always do a one-pass parse even with mutating grammars, and assign the semantics on the fly, rather than delegating the semantics after the initial parse.
Aankhen`` metaxyy_fw: Indeed I am. 06:32
metaxyy_fw: I find Lisp very readable.
ā€¦okay, not quite. I find Lisp fairly readable, if a tad less than most mainstream languages.
amnesiac I find asm very readable!
metaxyy_fw It's certainly easier to understand, but so far, to my untrained eyes, it doesn't make any concessions to (possibly innate, possibly acculturated) cognitive preferences like infix operators. I like the consistent grammar because of the uber-easy homoiconicity it offers--extremely fond, in fact--but I never try to sell it on its readability) 06:34
Easier to understand in terms of breaking it down to its individual operations, I should say (not easier to understand at a quick read)
Aankhen`` Eh, I don't sell it, I just know I find it fairly easy to read. Then again, I tend to have some weird preferences.
TimToady I tend to have some weird precedences... 06:35
Aankhen`` TimToady: Don't we know it. ;-) 06:36
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metaxyy_fw For reference, Lisp vs. Tcl: (if (eq (+ 1 2) 3) (print "OK") (print "impossible") vs. if {1 + 2 == 3} {puts "OK"} else {puts "impossible"} 06:38
shachaf metaxyy_fw: You want =, not eq.
metaxyy_fw Tcl is a weird Lisp dialect that uses a lot of tricks to act like a normal dynamic language
TimToady ?eval if 1 + 2 == 3 { say "OK" } else { say "impossible" }
evalbot_r16804 OUTPUT[OKā¤] Bool::True 06:39
shachaf metaxyy_fw: And you're missing a ')', actually.
metaxyy_fw shachaf: Bah, fine.
Aankhen`` Heh.
metaxyy_fw If that were Scheme and the branches had multiple lines I'd need to wrap them in lambdas, right?
I don't speak Lisp :P
Aankhen`` Dunno about Scheme, but in Lisp you wrap it in a `progn` if you need multiple lines. 06:40
Er.
In Common Lisp, sorry.
metaxyy_fw I think it's the same in Scheme with lambdas
shachaf Aankhen``: In Scheme progn is called begin.
Aankhen`` Ah.
Aankhen`` is still a Lisp neophyte.
Dangit, I still can't find any place to read about delimited continuations. 06:42
metaxyy_fw "begin" would look good in code but it doesn't really describe what it does as a function, that'd be a better name for an algol-style block delimiter (like Ruby's "do") than a function that takes code.
TimToady I think { ... } is a cool way to write lambdas 06:43
technically the blocks in the p6 if/else are lambdas
so basically p6 forces you to use lambdas, but makes it easy 06:44
metaxyy_fw Another step toward Lispy homoiconicity <g>
Aankhen`` LOL.
TimToady The Lisp folks can think that if they like. :) 06:45
Aankhen`` Everyone's got a share in the pie.
metaxyy_fw They probably wouldn't like that, since they like to think that s-expresions may be the only good way to do metaprogramming and macros.
I'm agnostic on the matter so far, since I haven't studied it yet 06:46
in depth
TimToady s-expressions certainly make things easy for the computer; pity about the user... 06:47
?eval multi postfix:<!> ($n) { [*] 1..$n }; say 42! 06:48
evalbot_r16804 OUTPUT[1405006117752879898543142606244511569936384000000000ā¤] Bool::True
metaxyy_fw I also couldn't quite tell from the Apocalypses whether 6's control structures were true functions yet? You could probably fake it up Tcl-style with else as a bareword, or macros, or whatever other relevant syntax voodo 6 adds. Larry's eval shows they're expressions (or if is, anyway), but that's not all the way.
TimToady I think that's the right way to do it.
it's all syntactic sugar over a few basic primitives 06:49
but the grammatical categories make it easy to modify just the parts of the grammar you want to modify 06:50
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TimToady welcome back, dalekbot 06:51
metaxyy_fw But if isn't (and doesn't call) an actual specific if function to do its work. 06:52
TimToady the user doesn't need to know either way
metaxyy_fw Still, it's interesting both from design0p;/ce and perverse language modification reasons. 06:53
Bah, stupid broken keyboard.
*for* both those reasons.
TimToady a lot of the design of Perl 6 is carefully distinguishing where the user has to care from where they don't have to care 06:54
metaxyy_fw Heh--good idea.
TimToady and there are very few arbitrary lists that have to be memorized any more
metaxyy_fw With C, the user always needs to describe for themselves what's going on :P 06:55
TimToady there are very few true keywords that aren't really just multimethods or macros
you no longer have to keep track of which identifiers are truly global 06:56
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TimToady you no longer have to keep track of which punctuation is meta in regexen 06:56
you no longer have to keep track of which built-ins are overridable and which aren't 06:57
or which ones default to $_
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metaxyy_fw Excellent. 06:58
TimToady you don't have to keep track of which } need a ; after
unlike in C and Perl 5
"you don't have to keep track of" is a recurring theme in p6 06:59
you don't have to know which control structures are builtin and which are user-defined elsewhere--a "return" will still always return from your current sub 07:00
even if passed in as part of a closure to some user-defined code and executed elsewhere
you don't have to keep track of which control structures make hidden lexical scopes like you do in p5 07:01
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TimToady well, that's probably enough to start with. :) 07:03
Aankhen`` Hmm, I'm having a little trouble understanding where Perl 6 is lazy by default. 07:04
Is it just lists?
TimToady basically, yes 07:05
Aankhen`` So in `foo(bar(), baz(), quux())`, is that a lazy list or a Capture or something?
The arguments, that is. 07:06
TimToady function args are in a Capture until bound to formal parameters 07:07
however, I think the sub functions are called eagerly even though the list may be lazy 07:08
Aankhen`` I see.
TimToady and would generally be told they're in list context.
regardless of the eventual binding
Aankhen`` So this would be pointless: foo(lazy { bar() }, lazy { baz() }, lazy { quux() })
TimToady could conceivably make it even lazier
Aankhen`` Whereas this might have a useful effect: lazy { foo(bar(), baz(), quux() } 07:09
TimToady could be
Aankhen`` (Sorry for being obtuse, I'm just a little disoriented.)
TimToady I think a lazy object would be considered a scalar for purposes of binding, even if evaluating it would produce a list. 07:13
well, speaking of disoriented, I should probably go to bed before I emit even more nonsense 07:15
Aankhen`` Bonne nuit, in that case. :-) 07:16
TimToady but basically, we do have to evaluate things early enough to give multis some type info to work with for the positional args 07:17
zzz &
args I don't feel much positional this morning
TimToady .oO(you look rather named to me...) 07:19
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metaxyy_fw Thanks a bunch for the wisdom, sleep well. 07:26
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meppl good morning 07:32
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lumi blog.moertel.com/articles/2005/03/2...in-haskell -- Very strange semantics in Ruby 08:17
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fmerges hi all 09:04
pugs_svnbot r16805 | agentz++ | trunk: 09:13
: PCR - checks Test::Base on the developer side in Makefile.PL
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16805
09:14 agentzh joined 09:37 rlb3 joined
pugs_svnbot r16806 | agentz++ | trunk: 09:43
: smartlinks.pl - removed trailing spaces in JS and skipped S26 when --check is specified
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16806
09:45 chris2 joined
pasteling "evalbot_r16805" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at sial.org/pbot/25977 09:45
Aankhen`` What's up with the evalbot? Why does it keep failing to build? 09:47
lumi Looks like an environment mess? Not sure 09:48
Aankhen`` lumi: I command you to fix it!
lumi Jawohl! 09:49
I'm not sure where that (null) could have come from...
Anyone have clue?
Aankhen`` Seems to be a GHC thing. 09:51
agentzh just updated smartlinks_data.tar.gz on feather :) 10:20
Aankhen``: are you working on the HTML emitter for pod6? 10:21
Aankhen``: that may be a good chance for me to tweak *your* work ;)
i'm thinking about a pod5 emitter for pod6 10:22
wow, STD.pm is 44 pages long while mp6 is just 42 ;) 10:26
fglock: i've introduced the $NoCache variable to Pugs::Compiler::Regex since caching is bad for emitter testing 10:27
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pugs_svnbot r16807 | agentz++ | trunk: 10:31
: PCR - removed trailing spaces in Pugs::Compiler::Regex
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16807
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pasteling "evalbot_r16807" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at sial.org/pbot/25978 10:43
pugs_svnbot r16808 | agentz++ | trunk:
: PCR - fixed a bug in Pugs::Compiler::Regex->compile regarding params handling and also added t/16-misc.t to test it
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16808
10:47 |mjk| joined
thoughtpolice mornin' everybody. :) 11:02
agentzh thoughtpolice: morning 11:03
(although it's evening here ;))
thoughtpolice 6:00am here. although my bsd/linux clocks are always out of sync
agentzh it's 7:03 PM here
thoughtpolice i should probably go through the effort to set up a ntp client on them.
agentzh pondering testing PCR via mocking... 11:04
pugs_svnbot r16809 | agentz++ | trunk: 11:08
: Pugs::Compiler::Regex - documented the C<compile>, C<perl>, C<perl5> methods and the C<> package variable
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16809
agentzh oh, i should have used single quotes while committing...$NoCache interpolates in "..." 11:10
lumi Aankhen``: Okay, I don't have an angle on it 11:14
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|mjk| agentzh:where are you use chinese to talk? 11:44
agentzh |mjk|: what? 11:46
agentzh doesn't quite understand. 11:48
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pugs_svnbot r16810 | agentz++ | trunk: 11:52
: [PCR]
: * renamed t/16-misc.t to t/04-compiler-regex.t
: * documented the C<install>, C<reinstall>, and C<code> methods in
: Pugs::Compile::Regex's POD
: * added tests for these methods in 04-compiler-regex.t
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16810
agentzh PCR needs more pod, or i'll have to check the tests and source too often ;) 11:53
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|mjk| agentzh,:ōæ½xB6Ō²ōæ½xBBōæ½xC6ōæ½xF0ōæ½xA3ōæ½xACōæ½xCEōæ½xD2ōæ½xCFōæ½xEBōæ½xCEōæ½xCAōæ½xC4ōæ½xE3ōæ½xD4ōæ½xDAōæ½xC4ōæ½xC4ōæ½xC0ōæ½xEFōæ½xD3ōæ½xC3ōæ½xD6ōæ½xD0ōæ½xCEōæ½xC4ōæ½xCCōæ½xD6ōæ½xC2ōæ½xDBōæ½xCEōæ½xCAōæ½xCCōæ½xE2 11:55
agentzh |mjk|: a sec
pasteling "evalbot_r16809" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at sial.org/pbot/25980
agentzh goes to adjust his encoding 11:56
|mjk|: oh, you're using GB2312...
try #perlchina?
|mjk| yes 11:57
OK
agentzh my client can only display utf-8
thoughtpolice screen is the best utility ever. being able to share an irssi session inbetween two seperate computers is too nifty. :) 11:59
agentzh |mjk|: you can try MSN. my account is [email@hidden.address] 12:02
buetow and there is now also a patch doing vertical split in screen.
agentzh moritz: any plan to add support for the GB2312 encoding to ilbot? 12:03
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lumi thoughtpolice: Never /quit again! 12:05
thoughtpolice lumi: i wish. this box has regular downtime. :( (my linux/obsd boxes are in vmware on windows.) 12:06
funny enough though I never actually use vmware to interact with them. i just use putty to open a ssh session to them since it's more convenient. :) 12:07
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agentzh heh 12:08
thoughtpolice and i never use xorg anyway. boo-yah. :) 12:09
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moritz re 12:20
agentzh moritz: i know the answer is "you can hack that in yourself" ;) 12:21
moritz agentzh: ilbot just copies byte by byte into the database...
agentzh moritz: cool!
so that's just a display issue 12:22
moritz agentzh: and for the hacking.. you are right ;) I don't know anything about GB* encodings, and have no means to test it...
agentzh i'll copy my charset detecting code to irclog
moritz agentzh: the easiest thing might be to look at IrcLog.pm, it has a custom encoding routine, that uses Encode::Guess and falls back to utf-8...
agentzh: if you hack that, you're done 12:23
agentzh yay, thanks for the info!
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agentzh moritz: what encoding are these chars in? moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/out.pl?ch...-19#id_l51 13:32
(i mean encodings other than utf8, of course ;))
it's not latin-1 13:33
moritz agentzh: they are utf-8 13:35
agentzh moritz: i know that. i'm trying to use a different encoding 13:36
lumi You mean what other encodings they might exist in?
agentzh lumi: exactly
moritz agentzh: ... then what is you question?
ok
i think it's korean or something
for 'sudoku' ;)
agentzh i'm writing some unit tests to exercise the encoding guessing algorithm ;)
moritz: okay 13:37
moritz agentzh: unit tests for IrcLog.pm? cool ;)
lumi It's Korean, I'm not sure what encodings they have
agentzh moritz: yup
i think i'd better check my tests in 13:38
then everyone can add test cases with odd encodings ;)
moritz agentzh: actually I never thought about that, because it was such an ad-hoc solution ;)
agentzh: but of course that's no good reason to mit test cases
the initial goal was just to bring up something working very fast ;)
agentzh moritz: but it's growing very quickly ;) 13:39
moritz agentzh: that's -Ofun ;)
agentzh indeed
Aankhen``++ moritz++
moritz next step is to sort the index by month
agentzh is joining the -Ofun group
moritz or perhaps aligned as a calendar? 13:40
atm I don't have access to my laptop (missing power supply :() so no -Ofun-coding for me until thursday or friday :( 13:41
and it's neither fun on windows nor via ssh on a unix maschine
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agentzh heh 13:42
lumi moritz: Live CD? 13:43
agentzh using a calendar is an interesting idea
moritz lumi: might be an idea ;)
agentzh svn ci is so slow....
finally committed... 13:45
pugs_svnbot r16811 | fglock++ | trunk:
: [kp6] EmitPerl5Regex - more primitives; regex-as-method wrapper
r16812 | agentz++ | trunk:
: [IrcLog]
: * added sub decode_by_guessing to IrcLog and inserted my encoding
: guessing algorithm to sub my_encode
: * added t/decode.t to test the new IrcLog::my_encode
: (currently Big5, GB2312, UTF-8, latin-1 are tested)
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16812
agentzh feather suddenly slows down... 13:47
because the autosmoke is running?
i've nice'd it i believe
moritz: please update irclog to your server so that i can see how it works out ;) 13:48
moritz agentzh: done 13:49
agentzh moritz: thanks
sigh. it doesn't work... 13:50
moritz agentzh: the unicode test that you posted the link to earlier fails :(
agentzh weird
the unit tests are passing... 13:51
investigating
weird 13:53
my_encode returns the string in the right encoding (utf8)
moritz agentzh: maybe it's a database issue? I don't know what magic mysql does (I hope none at all) 13:54
agentzh moritz: is the decode.t passing for you? 13:55
i mean t/decode.t 13:56
agentzh is just too lazy to set up a mysql db himself. 13:57
moritz agentzh: sorry, no Test::Base on my server, wait a moment
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agentzh moritz: okay 13:57
moritz agentzh: my Test::Harness is too old :( 14:02
agentzh oh
make an upgrade? 14:03
.oO(don't tell me you're using perl 5.6.x )
moritz I'm not root, and not inclined to install modules locally that are installed globally as well
agentzh is it the use_ok thing? 14:04
moritz agentzh: no, it's 5.8.8
agentzh or are you experiencing problems while installing Test::Base?
moritz when I execute the test it says 'Test::Harness version 11 required -- this is only version 2.45 at /usr/8share/perl/5.8/Exporter/Heavy.pm line 107' 14:06
damned, Test::Harness is not a subsitute for Text::Base, right?
my fault
agentzh cpan Test::Base 14:07
it's ingy's work
moritz I asked my admin to install it 14:08
agentzh moritz: try r16813 14:13
pugs_svnbot r16813 | agentz++ | trunk:
: IrcLog - added some diagnostics and attempted a fix in my_encode
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16813
agentzh the problem with fixing is that i can't reproduce the encoding bug locally... 14:14
pasteling "evalbot_r16812" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at sial.org/pbot/25983
moritz agentzh: I get so many '\t adjusted to ""' warnings that I switched back to the previous revision 14:18
agentzh moritz: could you paste the output?
moritz agentzh: I don't want to spam my error logs with a few hundret warnings per request 14:19
agentzh there's no warnings on my side...
moritz moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/error.log 14:20
the last few
if you need more, let me know
agentzh these warnings don't make any sense to me... 14:21
i dunno where they came from...
is there any other warning?
such as "Warning: malformed data: ..." 14:22
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moritz agentzh: no 14:23
which makes no sense at all
agentzh ah 14:24
i've finally seen the statement printing that crap
moritz: please try svn up 14:28
pugs_svnbot r16814 | agentz++ | trunk:
: IrcLog - removed some warnings
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16814
14:29 drupek12 joined
moritz agentzh: check the error.log under the same URL as above 14:30
agentzh moritz: okay
cool, that's what i want
moritz agentzh: do you need more lines? 14:31
agentzh moritz: is there something different? 14:32
it seems the data is missing... 14:33
moritz agentzh: I don't thinks so
agentzh i believe it should at least print out something even though it's messed up 14:34
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moritz agentzh: should I revert the server to a an older revision until UTF-8 is displayed correctly again? 14:37
agentzh moritz: okay
moritz: could please update your Encode and try again? 14:38
it seems your Encode is different from mine
*could you
pugs_svnbot r16815 | agentz++ | trunk: 14:43
: IrcLog - preserve UTF-8
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16815
moritz agentzh: sorry, I can't.. it's in the debian package 'perl', and I'm afraid It would break too much 14:44
agentzh moritz: understood
moritz agentzh: should I try again to update to HEAD? 14:45
agentzh yes please
daxim moritz, untargz Encode.tar.gz ; perl Makefile.PL INSTALL_BASE=$HOME/perl ; make ; make install ; perl -I$HOME/perl/lib/perl5 -MEncode -e'print "modern!"'
agentzh moritz: i really want to hear if t/decode.t passes for you ;) 14:46
daxim: yeah, install Encode locally
as well as Test::Base. hehe 14:48
moritz I'd expected to find Encode as the first on search.cpan.org when I search for Encode :( 14:49
agentzh moritz: sorry for taking you so much time 14:50
moritz: setting up irclog on my side is not as simple as a jifty app. sigh.
moritz do you have a downloadlink for me for Encode.tar.gz? 14:51
moritz is too stupid, sorry
agentzh a sec
search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/D/D....23.tar.gz
ashleyb hmmm agentzh doesn't have an obfuscated email address in the irc log. 14:53
agentzh ashleyb: i have 14:54
ashleyb ---> moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/out.pl?ch...03#id_l426
agentzh ashleyb: @ is a picture
ashleyb hmmm
heh -- that's cool 14:55
agentzh ashleyb: yeah, it is!
moritz installing... ;)
ashleyb had me fooled :D
moritz YaY
agentzh ashleyb: had me fooled too ;)
ashleyb: until i select it with a mouse 14:56
ashleyb it looks quite selectable in safari for me, what browser are you using?
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agentzh firefox 14:57
findlay elinks
14:58 amnesiac joined
moritz daxim: are you sure about INSTALL_BASE? I tried it, and that damned installer wants to overwrite my standard Encode.pm :( 14:58
daxim update ExtUtils::MakeMaker
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agentzh daxim: updating anything globally seems unacceptable for moritz 15:02
daxim then first install EU::MM with PREFIX=$HOME/bootstrap, you can delete that later 15:03
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pugs_svnbot r16816 | agentz++ | trunk: 15:05
: [IrcLog] set charset to UTF-8 for t/decode.t
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16816
agentzh svn.pugscode.org/pugs/misc/irclog/t/decode.t 15:07
the tests seem okay to me
am i doing anything stupid there?
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moritz damned, Test::Base needs Spiffy in turn... :( 15:09
agentzh: everything is fine was an up-to-date Encode here 15:11
agentzh moritz: hehe, i know that feeling...
t/decode.t is passing? 15:12
moritz agentzh: but of course that's not the Encode.pm the web interface uses
agentzh: yes
agentzh yay
moritz: use lib ? 15:13
moritz but even with the old one it passes :(
agentzh oh...
my god 15:16
i think i'd better set up a db myself
it's easier to debug
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moritz no mysql on feather? 15:18
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moritz I reverted the server to r16804 until I have more moose time to spare to fix it(or somebody else does) 15:27
agentzh moritz: i'm trying locally
moritz: okay 15:28
moritz agentzh: when the guessing heuristics fail, do you still run encode("utf8", $str)?
thoughtpolice okay, i'm probably going to rewrite my little article on rules since in general I've felt 'icky' about it (I feel that one post in particular isn't up to the standards it should be. IOWs, it doesn't do rules justice.) so do you guys have any recommendations of what you'd like to see in it?
agentzh moritz: the latest version doesn't, i believe 15:29
but it used to
thoughtpolice so far I'm rebuilding pugs in a seperate spot on my disk and I'm configuring it to use PGE, so the implementation should be much more complete, thus, I should be able to cover more.
so while that's happening I'm completely open to suggestions.
moritz thoughtpolice: you could elaborate more on the match object ;)
thoughtpolice moritz: anything else? i figure things like backtracking and whatnot are worth a shot; I'm going to try a different approach here 15:34
agentzh moritz: what encoding is the string fed into my_encode in? 15:35
moritz: plain bytes? or already in some other encoding? 15:36
moritz agentzh: "that thing that DBI/mysql return" 15:37
thoughtpolice: backtracking is worth a go, yes
agentzh moritz: k
moritz agentzh: I hope that are the plain bytes that ilbot fed into the database, but I'm not entirely sure :) 15:38
anyway, I'm off now :( 15:39
agentzh see you
offby1 ha, he thinks _he's_ off
agentzh thinks encodings are painful 15:40
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agentzh night, all & 15:50
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clkao win 4 16:30
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blblack what's the status of grammar/rule support in pugs? 16:42
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fglock blblack: it's mostly supported, afaik 16:50
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blblack I have a little dslanguage I need to write as part of a longer-term research project, I was like at hacked up p5 solutions or p5 parsing modules, or direct lex/yacc, or even antlr. Now I'm kinda leaning towards doing it in p6 using pugs for now. 16:52
will be interesting anyways, and maybe I can help ferret out any remaining issues while I'm there :)
diakopter 'any remaining issues' :) 16:55
blblack I've got an svn copy of pugs built and running now, so just lie to me and let me think grammar/rules are pretty much ok, hopefully I won't realize what I've gotten into until it's too late, and then I'll have to submit patches to fix them :) 16:56
[particle] blblack: you'll probably find everything you need. 16:57
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jedai blblack: Yeah, go for it, it's pretty much okay... ^^ 17:03
jedai doesn't think it's bad to lie when asked to... :-)
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fglock_ blblack: I've used a p6 grammar in a CPAN module: search.cpan.org/src/FGLOCK/Pugs-Com...r/Rule2.pm 17:09
some cheats required, but it's doable 17:10
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thoughtpolice has the is parsed trait not been implemented for macro's yet in pugs? or is the syntax for it simply not precisely spec'd? 17:49
Tene thoughtpolice: you checked for tests on it yet?
TimToady macros are officially the last pugs milestone, if I recall 17:50
so support is rudimentary at best
the syntax is precisely specced, but the semantics are probably still a bit wobbly 17:51
thoughtpolice i figured. 17:52
Tene: the tests I saw in S06 don't have any examples of is parsed
Tene operators/operator_overloading.t has a couple of tests for it. 17:53
TimToady but the syntax is incorrect there. should be "is parsed(/.*?/)" because traits are parsed like adverbs after the "is ", assuming that stands in for : 17:56
thoughtpolice hm. i guess i'll just have to wait for them or get fed up and hack it up myself :p 18:00
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[particle] please do the latter ;) 18:01
thoughtpolice :> 18:14
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ibrown blah, anyone in this channel, as off topic as it may be, familiar with network socket programming of any sorts, and might be able to point me towards a solution? 18:41
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riffraff hi 19:57
TimToady howdy doo
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Aankhen`` @tell agentzh I sent DCONWAY a Perl6::Perldoc::To::Html, that's about the full extent of my contributions. :-) 20:10
o noes 20:11
COME BACK LAMBDABOT, I LOVE YOU
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thoughtpolice yes 20:18
what happened to lambdabot? :(
Aankhen`` It died because of the spam, I believe.
thoughtpolice aw. :(
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SamB I think maybe it *left* because of the @tell spam 20:18
it seems to be alive and kicking in #haskell
Aankhen`` shrugs.
[particle] i suspect buu's anti-spam bot kicked it 20:19
SamB that sounds probable
Aankhen`` Sounds like something dalekbot would do.
thoughtpolice poor lambdabot. he didn't deserve this.
Aankhen`` shakes a fist at buu and dalekbot.
SamB thoughtpolice: it's lambdabot's own fault for accepting all the @tell spam ;-)
... and publicly declaring this fact
repeatedly 20:20
awwaiid stupid robots
thoughtpolice stupid dog
Aankhen`` Garbage in, garbage out. :-)
[particle] is reminded to renew his 'greater php alliance' membership :)
SamB maybe lambdabot should store each person's messages in a Set
thoughtpolice [particle]: heresy! 20:23
[particle] who's gonna arrest me, you? :P 20:24
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Tene laughs. 20:24
Aankhen`` OK, I'm adding my PHP entry to the abbreviations list. :-P
diakopter [particle]: no, dalekbot did not kick lambdabot 20:28
pugs_svnbot r16817 | Aankhen++ | trunk:
: * [irclog] fresh batch of abbrs.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16817
diakopter before I cleansed the spam from that day, I saw where it died in the midst of the spamming 20:29
[particle] okay. that's good news.
pasteling "evalbot_r16816" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at sial.org/pbot/25995 20:31
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thoughtpolice [particle]: your thought crimes do not escape me. 20:53
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meppl good night 21:15
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Limbic_Region does anyone know if the Win32/MinGW build problem got fixed from the 29th or is it still b0rk? 21:47
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Limbic_Region oh duh 21:50
wrong channel
Aankhen`` We're on to you. 22:03
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Limbic_Region out of curiosity, anyone here besides audreyt have editing capability over pugscode.org ? 22:58
or rather, planet.pugscode.org/
which is linked to from pugscode.org 22:59
it certainly isn't doing the right thing
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pugs_svnbot r16818 | Aankhen++ | trunk: 23:18
: * [irclog] fixed conflict between Content-Type as indicated by `meta` elements and Content-Type as indicated by HTTP headers.
r16819 | Aankhen++ | trunk:
: * [irclog] forgot to check in IrcLog::WWW
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/16819
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TimToady Limbic_Region: well, they're really the same machine, and since you have an account there I'd suggest trying a sudo 23:34
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TimToady myself, I know next to nothing about rss feeds... :/ 23:36
and very little more about virtual hosting 23:37

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