pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ Set by diakopter on 11 July 2007. |
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diakopter | TimToady: did you get a chance to examine my nopaste from earlier today? | 00:02 | |
TimToady | not yet | 00:05 | |
diakopter | I'm making a much more complicated edition... consider waiting for that one | 00:06 | |
TimToady | @tell perlDreamer 2-arg substr is indicated by the fact that the 3rd arg is marked as optional. it's must the 4-arg that's missing. | ||
lambdabot | Consider it noted. | ||
TimToady | @tell perlDreamer s/must/just/ | 00:07 | |
lambdabot | Consider it noted. | ||
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perlDreamer | lambdabot: messages | 04:27 | |
lambdabot: @messages | |||
lambdabot | TimToady said 4h 20m 50s ago: 2-arg substr is indicated by the fact that the 3rd arg is marked as optional. it's must the 4-arg that's missing. | ||
TimToady said 4h 20m 35s ago: s/must/just/ | |||
perlDreamer | TimToady, so no 4 arg substr in Perl6? Replacement is just through lvalue assignment? Please forgive me for belaboring the subject, but your answer wasn't clear as to whether the omission is due to it not being in the language or not. | 04:29 | |
and in the pugs test suite, all 4 arg substr's are commented out. | 04:31 | ||
lambdabot: @tell TimToady so no 4 arg substr in Perl6? Replacement is just through lvalue assignment? Please forgive me for belaboring the subject, but your answer wasn't clear as to whether the omission is due to it not being in the language or not. In the pugs test suite, all 4 arg substr tests are commented out. | 04:33 | ||
lambdabot | Consider it noted. | ||
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meppl | good morning | 04:53 | |
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pugs_svnbot | r17186 | agentz++ | PCR - used arrows | 05:56 | |
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17186 | |||
lambdabot | Title: Changeset 17186 - Pugs - Trac | ||
pugs_svnbot | r17187 | agentz++ | PCR - added t.sh to ease development | 05:59 | |
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17187 | |||
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lambdabot | Title: Changeset 17187 - Pugs - Trac | 05:59 | |
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rindolf | Hi all. | 07:16 | |
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rindolf | Alias_: here? | 07:16 | |
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masak | I'm not sure PIL1 is what I want anymore | 07:28 | |
I took a look at the output, and couldn't locate any function calls | 07:29 | ||
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masak | does PIL1 perhaps do funky stuff like inlining of subroutines or something? | 07:31 | |
why then does it start with a list of subs? | |||
seems you would want either a list and inlining, but not both | |||
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masak | moritz_: logger for #bioclipse seems to have gone down yesterday evening | 08:22 | |
also, the link "Searchable logs" links to perl6 at colabti | 08:24 | ||
besides, your logs are searchable too nowadays, so you might consider renaming | |||
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Alias_ | rindolf: Yes, now | 09:23 | |
pugs_svnbot | r17188 | agentz++ | PCR - added _pos slots to almost all the AST nodes | 09:36 | |
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17188 | |||
lambdabot | Title: Changeset 17188 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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masak | agentzh: there are a number of non-versioned files in perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Rule/ -- would it be ok if I svn:ignored those? | 09:56 | |
normally I would just do it, but just checking if there's a reason they should not be ignored | 09:57 | ||
pugs_svnbot | r17189 | agentz++ | PCR - saved _pos info into the emitted code (as smart commetns :)) | ||
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17189 | |||
lambdabot | Title: Changeset 17189 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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pugs_svnbot | r17190 | agentz++ | PCR - emitted regex pos info in ratchet mode (masak: go ahead :)) | 10:25 | |
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17190 | |||
lambdabot | Title: Changeset 17190 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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pugs_svnbot | r17191 | agentz++ | PCR - added Pugs::Runtime::Tracer (not working yet) | 10:52 | |
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17191 | |||
lambdabot | Title: Changeset 17191 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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pugs_svnbot | r17192 | agentz++ | PCR - added Pugs::Runtime::Tracer for debugging the grammar/regex (not working yet) | 10:55 | |
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17192 | |||
lambdabot | Title: Changeset 17192 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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rindolf | Alias_: here? | 11:31 | |
Hi all. | |||
Alias_ | yo | ||
masak | 'ello | ||
rindolf | Hi Alias_ | 11:33 | |
Alias_: I tried to commit something into svn.ali.as/ using my CPAN id and could not. | |||
Alias_ | yeah, sorry about that | ||
;) | |||
I'm working on it | |||
rindolf | Alias_: is there anything I can do to help? | 11:34 | |
Alias_ | Not really, it's mostly down to me finishing the repository manager | ||
rindolf | Alias_: I see. | ||
Alias_ | Actually, I can probably run/release the current version, and add you manually | 11:35 | |
hmm | |||
masak | Alias_: PPI is great, btw | 11:43 | |
Alias_ | Thanks :) | ||
masak | you're welcome. I noticed because I'm currently looking for something similar for p6 | 11:44 | |
Alias_ runs | |||
masak | no, I didn't mean it that way | ||
I'm looking for existing ways to get a syntax tree | |||
Alias_ | hrm... I'm not entirely convinced it's going to be possible | ||
masak | from perl 6 source | ||
so far I've found PIL1, which does not seem to be what I want | 11:45 | ||
Alias_ | It was SUPPOSED to be possible... but I'm not entirely sure it will be possible | ||
masak | Alias_: not possible? then what is it that the parser produces? | ||
Alias_ | code | ||
masak | hm | 11:46 | |
masak wants a non-ASCII representation of the source file | |||
Aankhen`` | Will Shift-JIS do? | 11:47 | |
Alias_ | :) | ||
masak checks | |||
Alias_ | no, you want a deserialized representation | 11:48 | |
You want a Perl 6 DOM | |||
masak | yes! | ||
is that too much to ask? | |||
Aankhen`` | That would be nice indeed. | ||
Alias_ | I have an ugly suspicion it's going to be even more impossible than in Perl 5 | ||
masak | it seems perfectly natural to me | ||
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masak | Alias_: what's the difference between p5 PPI and p6 DOM? | 11:49 | |
and why would the latter be even more impossible? | |||
Alias_ | Well, for one, the p6 DOM is still a moving target | ||
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masak | Aankhen``: I don't see Shift-JIS among the valid pugs backends | 11:50 | |
Alias_: well, disregarding that | |||
Alias_ | The P6 syntax is also a good deal more complicated than P5 | ||
Which doesn't make it impossible I guess, just harder | |||
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Alias_ | PPI implements a relatively static grammar | 11:52 | |
You pretty much need static grammars to make a DOM work :) | |||
masak | Alias_: hm. good point. let's say, though, that I'm interested in parsing vanilla p6 | 11:53 | |
Alias_ | TBH, dunno | ||
I'm sure you could implement something like PPI | |||
But you'd probably have similar issues as with PPI, you couldn't use regexes really | 11:54 | ||
You'd have to cheat rapaciously | |||
masak | I was thinking of cheating to the extent of not implementing p6PPI at all :) | 11:55 | |
my goal is to do a bit of analysis on the pugs test suite | |||
and it would help greatly if I could traverse DOMs, not text files | |||
Alias_ | Well, I don't believe there's a DOM parser for Perl 6 | 11:56 | |
wolverian | just use the grammar.. (; | ||
masak | wolverian: please elaborate | ||
is that feasible today? | |||
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Alias_ | wolverian: Don't start, we don't want to lead him down a false path | 11:56 | |
he's kidding | |||
masak | Alias_: thought so | ||
wolverian | masak, no, we're not bootstrapped yet. there _is_ the grammar, but no engine to run it, I think. | ||
Alias_, sorry. :) | |||
Alias_ | Can the grammar parse without executing? | 11:57 | |
masak | Alias_: name one place where it can't | ||
except non-vanilla p6 | 11:58 | ||
wolverian | changing the grammar at runtime | ||
..right | |||
Alias_ | loading modules | ||
masak | hm | ||
Alias_ | Compile-time code | ||
masak | Alias_: yes, there is that. the test suite has some of that | ||
wolverian | as long as it doesn't change the grammar, it should be fine, I think | ||
Alias_ | wolverian: Well, arbitrary code == exploit == not allowed | 11:59 | |
masak | so, how would you do it, today, given today's tools? | ||
Alias_ | BEGIN { while (1) { $_++ } } | ||
wolverian | Alias_, I mean parsing without running should result in the same dom, as long as the code that would have been run doesn't change the grammar | ||
Alias_ | or any equivalent you can come up with | ||
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wolverian | s,doesn't,wouldn't have, # I don't even know anymore | 12:00 | |
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masak | given that I went for a simple text-matching approach, looking for sub calls, I would still have to recognize strings and comments | 12:02 | |
it gets complicated quickly | |||
I'd like to have something do the hard lifting | |||
Alias_ | Yes | 12:03 | |
Yes it gets VERY complicated quickly | |||
masak | Alias_: yes, you would know | ||
Alias_ | indeed | ||
masak | and I guess you wouldn't recommend that road | ||
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Alias_ | Well, I was told it could be done internally | 12:03 | |
masak | that's what I'm hoping for | 12:04 | |
Alias_ | That somehow the parser would have a mode that would prohibit grammar modifications, and thus give you a parsetree | ||
masak | sounds great | ||
wolverian | .. like mad does for perl5? hm. not sure if it's compile-only | ||
just a thought, I haven't worked with mad | 12:05 | ||
Alias_ | uuumm... possiblyu | ||
I haven't worked with mad | |||
wolverian | heh | ||
anyway, we're interested in 6 now :) | |||
masak didn't know mad was available | |||
wolverian | masak, did you look at pugs -C? | 12:06 | |
masak | wolverian: yes | ||
found PIL1, was half disappointed, half confused | 12:07 | ||
is there anything else in -C I should be looking at? | |||
bloonix | $fh.say "hello world" returns an error, why? | 12:10 | |
masak | bloonix: should you perhaps write $fh.say: "hello world" ? | 12:11 | |
bloonix | masak: yes, I should :) thx! | 12:13 | |
masak | np | ||
that still bites me too sometimes | |||
bloonix | I searched for an example but didnt find one | ||
masak | it's still too early to blame people for not having p6 syntax down pat :) | 12:14 | |
bloonix | hmmm I tries flock on the filehandle but I doesnt work | ||
:set nonu | |||
*arg* | |||
wolverian | masak, not sure what's bitrot and what's not | 12:15 | |
(if any) | |||
pasteling | "bloonix" at 87.230.108.20 pasted "use perl5:Fcntl <flock>; my $f" (10 lines, 245B) at sial.org/pbot/26601 | ||
masak | wolverian: no, I think that syntax is a feature | 12:16 | |
wolverian | masak, I meant -C | ||
masak | wolverian: oh | 12:17 | |
bloonix | any suggestions? | ||
masak | bloonix: not at present | 12:18 | |
was it the flock call that broke things? | |||
wolverian: I wish I could attribute what I saw to bitrot | |||
PIL1 just doesn't seem to be what I need | |||
way too chewed already | |||
wolverian | heh, try -CPugs | 12:20 | |
(whoa!) | |||
masak | ok | ||
wolverian | no, don't :) | ||
masak | ok :) | 12:21 | |
I did, anyway. it said "pugs: XXX" | |||
terse, but not correct, unfortunately | 12:22 | ||
wolverian | it's more verbose on feather.. | ||
masak | I don't have access to feather | 12:23 | |
wolverian | oh! well, ask Juerd | ||
masak | wolverian: yes I know. I just haven't found a compelling reason to get an account. to check the verbose output of pugs -CPugs seems like somewhat less than a compelling reason... | 12:24 | |
usually I make do with my own computer, and don't need a feather account | |||
bloonix: seems to me flock is not imported properly | 12:25 | ||
I wish I had a fix for you, but I don't, sadly :( | |||
bloonix | where is the different between sub FOO () {} and constant $FOO ? | 12:34 | |
masak | well, the syntactic difference is obvious: $FOO contains a dollar sign | 12:35 | |
so, I suppose that's not what you mean | |||
I guess they can be used in much the same way if &FOO (the sub) always returns the same value | 12:36 | ||
but using a sub where a constant is enough seems a bit wasteful | |||
fglock | masak: you can probably write a Match-to-DOM converter based on v6.pm | 12:37 | |
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masak | fglock: I'd like that. difficult? | 12:38 | |
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ruoso | masak, actually, not that much | 12:39 | |
masak | I haven't really looked at v6.pm | ||
ruoso | you can look at the Pugs::Runtime::Match | 12:40 | |
and XML::DOM | |||
you just need to create a DOM tree based on the matches | |||
masak | ruoso: thx | ||
sounds great, actually | |||
masak 's hopes rise | |||
fglock | masak: lib/Pugs/Compiler/Perl6.pm is the place to look for how to get from source code to the match object | 12:43 | |
masak | ok | ||
fglock | actually, it's just $match = Pugs::Grammar::Perl6->parse( $source ) | 12:45 | |
masak | mm | 12:46 | |
masak is sorting through a number of lib/Pugs/Compiler/Perl6.pm at present | |||
fglock | in perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6 | 12:47 | |
masak | thx | ||
pasteling | "fglock" at 82.154.252.25 pasted "perl6-to-match with Pugs::Grammar::Perl6" (5 lines, 128B) at sial.org/pbot/26603 | 12:53 | |
masak | fglock: thx | 12:54 | |
fglock | masak: you can probably ignore the value in 'capture', because you will be doing the semantic analysis later, I think | 12:59 | |
masak installs Parse::Yapp | |||
it works now | 13:00 | ||
yes, I think this was what I was looking for | |||
fglock++ | |||
fglock | cool :) | ||
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Juerd | masak: To get access to feather, request a login by email (juerd@feather.perl6.nl) | 13:02 | |
masak | Juerd: what, by you, is a sufficient reason to get an account? | 13:03 | |
Juerd | masak: You're a Perl 6 contributor and wish to use feather for that, in any way your creativity can think of -- as long as it doesn't break feather :) | 13:04 | |
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masak | thing is, I wish to contribute to Perl 6, but I'm not sure I need feather ATM -- and I've tried pretty hard to come up with a need | 13:06 | |
seems I get along pretty well with just the svn repo | |||
fglock | hmm - $/<Pugs::Grammar::Expression.parse> doesn't keep much parsing information - but this is fixable | ||
masak | Juerd: but as soon as I think of something, I will email you :) | ||
fglock | lunch & | 13:07 | |
masak | fglock: yes, just noticed that too | 13:08 | |
it would be desirable, I think, for the expression to further specify its parts | 13:10 | ||
an expression parse tree, more or less | 13:11 | ||
...but reliable division into statements is already a great help on the way :) | |||
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Tene | masak: one reason, as I understand it, is to have a constantly updated pugs available without maintaining it and updating it yourself. | 13:17 | |
That's not a significant motivator for me... but for some people it is. | |||
masak | ok | ||
seems reasonable from at least some perspectives | 13:18 | ||
Juerd | masak: You don't have to use feather once you have an account :0 | 13:19 | |
:) | |||
masak | Juerd: :) | 13:20 | |
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rgs | but you can echo "has an account on feather" >> resume | 13:20 | |
masak | oooh | ||
didn't think of that | 13:21 | ||
Juerd | Oh, that too, indeed | ||
rgs: Do you want an account? Looks good next to "Iz teh pumpking" :) | 13:22 | ||
rgs | haha | ||
masak is tempted, against his will, by these arguments | |||
Juerd | Resistance is floor tile. | 13:23 | |
masak | indeed | ||
rgs | you will be insulinated | 13:24 | |
Juerd | I thought incinerated | ||
masak | infuriated | ||
Tene | masak: If you get an account on feather, women will be more attracted to you. | 13:28 | |
I've noticed the difference since I got one. | |||
masak | Tene: I'm fine, thanks | ||
Juerd | Gay! :P | ||
masak | any more of that would just be a nuisance | ||
Juerd: how's that for jumping to conclusions :P | |||
Juerd | I'm gay so I can say this ;) | 13:29 | |
masak | there's one thing I didn't expect this morning to be discussing today in #perl6, my sexual orientation... | ||
Juerd: that indeed is a good excuse | |||
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Juerd | You don't have to talk about it if you don't want :) | 13:29 | |
But then you leave us no choice but to jump to conclusions :P | |||
masak | Juerd: true. it's a double-edged sword :) | 13:30 | |
Juerd | Unfortunately there's no way to tell if someone's gay | ||
rgs | GOTO conclusion <- harmful | ||
Juerd | If only life were so easy | ||
rgs: conclusion() <- better? | |||
rgs | if you can resume on exception... | 13:31 | |
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fglock | masak: re Pugs::Grammar::Expression - the malformed Match is built by the operator precedence parser, which is a plain method (not a Perl 6 regex) | 14:19 | |
masak | "malformed Match"? | ||
fglock | the other Perl 6 implementations likely have the same problem | ||
the Match doesn't show the expression tokens | 14:20 | ||
masak | ah, yes | ||
fglock: it should, shouldn't it? | |||
fglock | the expression tree is returned in the 'capture' field, instead | ||
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fglock | but that is a tree of strings, instead of a Match | 14:21 | |
masak | ok | ||
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bloonix | are constant hashes possible? I got a problem and I dont know how to solve it with p6 | 14:43 | |
s/got/have/ | |||
masak | bloonix: first, do you need to solve it with p6? :) | ||
(kind of a spoilsport question, I know) | 14:44 | ||
second, why constant hashes? | |||
bloonix | I have p5 code and want port it to p6 :) | ||
masak | I'm sure you could at least wrap a hash in an object and prevent write access | ||
maybe even implement the Hash role and do it | |||
but probably not with today's pugs | 14:45 | ||
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masak | wait till Christmas | 14:45 | |
bloonix | sec I give you a code example ;) | ||
masak | oki | ||
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pasteling | "bloonix" at 87.230.108.20 pasted "use constant FOO => 'this is f" (8 lines, 171B) at sial.org/pbot/26604 | 14:48 | |
bloonix | this is what I need &{$what} | 14:49 | |
thats not possible with "constant $FOO = 'this is foo'" | |||
masak | bloonix: no idea, sorry | ||
bloonix | the best thing would be a hash I think | ||
masak | yes | 14:50 | |
bloonix | but all items must be constant :/ | ||
masak | bloonix: why? just don't change them | ||
bloonix | or I could "use FOO () { 'this is foo' }" but I dont know how I can access FOO as a variable | 14:51 | |
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bloonix | &{$what} doesnt work | 14:51 | |
any idea? | |||
masak | none, sorry | ||
check the synopses for inspiration, perhaps | |||
bloonix | did it | 14:52 | |
masak | ok | ||
then you're probably better informed than I | |||
haven't read them in a while; been meaning to | |||
bloonix | also I thought about $.lv = { FOO => 1, BAR => 2, BAZ => 3 } | ||
but Im dont care | 14:53 | ||
not | |||
broquaint | Hash::Util ? | 14:54 | |
bloonix | timtowdi but I want the best :p | 14:56 | |
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pasteling | "masak" at 130.238.204.78 pasted "I'm slowly getting it to work as I want. This is an interesting development." (43 lines, 954B) at sial.org/pbot/26605 | 15:09 | |
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masak | still a few quirks to work out, but still, very rapidly progressing | 15:10 | |
this was the kind of leverage I was talking about, thx everyone for guidance | |||
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bloonix | Im searching but dont find anything.... I want something like | 15:21 | |
regex FOO {} | |||
in which synopsis can I find it? :/ | |||
[particle] | S05 | 15:22 | |
moritz_ | somewho my irc log bot keeps dying in all channels but #perl6 | 15:24 | |
integral | can someone explain why there's opt_ws2 and opt_ws3 tokens in KindaPerl6::Grammar? I don't see where they're used | ||
moritz_ | s/who/how/ | ||
mysql connections time out :( | |||
is there a keepalive option or something? | |||
integral | Hmm, where in the synopses does it say the difference between 'rule' and 'token'? | 15:27 | |
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moritz_ | integral: token doesn't backtrack | 15:27 | |
integral: and rule has an implicit :sicspace | 15:28 | ||
integral | ah | ||
pasteling | "bloonix" at 87.230.108.20 pasted "if 1 ~~ /^<[10]>$/ { say "okay" (9 lines, 121B) at sial.org/pbot/26606 | ||
integral | I see it now | ||
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moritz_ | bloonix: you have to match against m/<foo>/ | 15:29 | |
bloonix: at least that's what I think | |||
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moritz_ | foo # logging test | 16:26 | |
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pugs_svnbot | r17193 | moritz++ | [irclog] | 16:41 | |
r17193 | moritz++ | * added changeset link target for #bioclipse | |||
r17193 | moritz++ | * removed colabti links from the linkblocks (maybe conditionally add them | |||
r17193 | moritz++ | later again?) | |||
r17193 | moritz++ | * ilbot.pl now ping()s the database before writing | |||
r17193 | moritz++ | * updated TODO file | |||
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17193 | |||
lambdabot | Title: Changeset 17193 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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wolverian | hmm | 16:57 | |
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pugs_svnbot | r17194 | moritz++ | [irclog] handle #bioclipse's weird revision links | 17:11 | |
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17194 | |||
lambdabot | Title: Changeset 17194 - Pugs - Trac | ||
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bloonix | pugs: oct() is not part of Perl 6 - use :8() instead. | 17:54 | |
*g* | |||
fine | |||
that would be fine on all errors :) "please do this or that instead of this" | |||
TimToady | we hope to get to that point | 17:58 | |
lambdabot | TimToady: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. | ||
wolverian | diagnostics is actually pretty good in perl5 too | 17:59 | |
TimToady | perlDreamer: the question is whether the 4-arg substr's swapping semantics can be generalized to substr(...).=swap("replacement") | 18:00 | |
and then you could use .=swap on any scalar lvalue | |||
assuming .= can actually put the left side into lvalue context sufficiently early for substr to know it should return an lvalue | 18:01 | ||
wolverian | what does .swap do? | ||
TimToady | returns the old value instead of the new one | ||
could well be a better name for that | |||
so $x.=swap($y) would set $x to $y but return $x | 18:02 | ||
wolverian | oh, I never realised substr does that | 18:03 | |
.swap is a bit short for it, maybe | 18:04 | ||
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TimToady | otherwise it'd be entirely redundant with substr() = "replacement" | 18:05 | |
but maybe we can generalize it with .= now, in which case the 4-arg form would be redundant | |||
wolverian | wait, now I'm confused | 18:06 | |
what the heck does .swap without = do? | |||
TimToady | probably modifies a temporary and throws it away | ||
in any case, nothing useful | |||
wolverian | oh, so it _is_ confusing :) | 18:07 | |
[particle] | swap in void context? sounds confusing. | ||
TimToady | .= implies side effects, so it doesn't matter if it's in void context | ||
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wolverian | I'm not sure if 4-arg substr is important enough to introduce swap | 18:08 | |
maybe it is | |||
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wolverian | I'm biased -- I feel substr is entirely redundant, if strings just implemented a list interface | 18:09 | |
TimToady | which they aren't, in Perl :) | ||
perlDreamer | TimToady: Thank you. I think I follow, and the answer is that the old 4-arg substr doesn't exist in Perl6. | ||
It was a good learning exercise in PIR, in any case :) |