pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by diakopter on 11 July 2007.
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pugs_svnbot r17432 | lwall++ | [metholate] binding much improved (but still doesn't propagate values correctly) 01:25
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17432
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17432 - Pugs - Trac
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Limbic_Region TimToady - you about? 01:56
TimToady nope :) 01:58
pugs_svnbot r17433 | sunnavy++ | in t/01-sanity/03-equal, let tests number be always right.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17433
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17433 - Pugs - Trac
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Limbic_Region oh 02:12
ok then, nevermind
I was just going to ask if there were anyway to return values from a sub/method that wasn't positional since you can provide arguments to a sub/method in a myriad of ways 02:13
TimToady hmm
well, return is defined to return a Capture, so that isn't always positional 02:14
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Limbic_Region was just thinking about that today 02:22
An OO module I wrote had a return object with a handful of standard members which made it easy to deal with in the calling code 02:23
easy with respect to standardization in subclasses and what not
TimToady that's more or less what a Match object is supposed to do, but pugs doesn't make it easy to derive from Match, alas 02:25
Limbic_Region well, my wife is telling me it is time for bed so perhaps I will bug you to explain more tomorrow 02:26
TimToady I'll be en route to Vienna tomorrow...
Limbic_Region ah
TimToady but 'nite
Limbic_Region well then another time
TTFN
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jisom thinks the message for r20832 a little funny, as it breaks realclean 05:40
or breaks it from a previous commit
c'est la vie 05:41
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jisom eh, wrong room, dumb autojoin 05:50
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pmurias morning 09:17
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meltingwax ?eval print "hello world" 10:03
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pugs_svnbot r17434 | fglock++ | [kp6] Capture flattening with prefix:<|> 11:10
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17434
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17434 - Pugs - Trac
meppl gugu 11:14
pmurias fglock: hi 11:27
fglock pmurias: hey 11:28
the calling convention is now more or less orthogonal to multi, because multi dispatch operates on Capture 11:30
i'll start working on multi-methods
pugs_svnbot r17435 | Nelson++ | Fixed parse command; added dispatch table for actions. 11:34
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17435
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17435 - Pugs - Trac
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pmurias hosted a starcraft lan party till 5 a.m. today, so isn't fully functional 11:46
fglock heh 11:49
pugs_svnbot r17436 | fglock++ | [v6.pm] version 0.019 on CPAN
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17436
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17436 - Pugs - Trac
fglock pre-hackathon cleanup :)
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pmurias is there an english name for @_ 12:21
?
pugs_svnbot r17437 | fglock++ | [kp6] dispatcher cleanup 12:25
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17437
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17437 - Pugs - Trac
masak pmurias: there's none documented in perldoc perlvar, in any case 12:27
pmurias looked ther before asking
masak I would call it "the argument array" or something
if I had to make up a name
but I think I can safely say that there's no official name 12:28
pmurias thanks 12:34
masak np. are you asking because of kp6? 12:35
pmurias sort of not really nessesary for anything in particualar, i use $array_ in kp6 12:36
$at_ might be better
masak "at"?
pmurias isn't @ 'at' 12:37
>
s/>/?/
masak ah, yes
masak thinks "array" is clearer
it documents the semantics, not the syntax
pugs_svnbot r17438 | fglock++ | [kp6] skeleton for IO module
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17438
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17438 - Pugs - Trac
pmurias we call the '@' character monkey in Poland 12:39
masak oh. in sweden, the most common name is elephant's-trunk-a 12:40
Patterner @ = Klammeraffe (clamping monkey) in Germany 12:44
masak ...and "monkey" again takes the lead :)
Patterner and # is still 'volume' for me. 12:45
masak oh, you mean the "octothorpe"?
for me, it's "number"
as in "#1"
Patterner tictactoe
masak heh 12:46
Patterner UCSD-Pascal on the Apple ][: #6 = Volume 6
masak ah, ok
pugs_svnbot r17439 | fglock++ | [kp6] roadmap update 12:49
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17439
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17439 - Pugs - Trac
rindolf In Hebrew the "@" is called a Strudel. 12:50
And in Russian it's a "doggy"
masak rindolf: we have an alternative name in Sweden which is something like Strudel, but not the exact same type of bread 12:51
it's with cinnamon and has the shape of a @ 12:52
Patterner mmm.... Apfelstrudel...
rindolf masak: OK. 12:53
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pugs_svnbot r17440 | fglock++ | [kp6] Method is Code 13:16
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17440
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17440 - Pugs - Trac
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pugs_svnbot r17441 | pmurias++ | kp6: 14:11
r17441 | pmurias++ | ::CAPTURIZE - which makes a capture out of @_
r17441 | pmurias++ | Lit::Code - ready for changing to the new calling convention
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17441
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17441 - Pugs - Trac
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moritz_ #kp6 multi sub foo { say "bar" }; foo() 14:58
exp_evalbot r17441: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling APPLY KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::DispatchSugar::Dispatch=HASH(0x82e5b48) on invalid object:$VAR1 = {};ā¤ā¤ at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 31ā¤ main::DISPATCH('undef', 'APPLY', 'KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::DispatchSugar::Dispatch=HASH(0x82...') called at
..- line 3ā¤]
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moritz_ TimToady: in S06:1089 the example output would be produced by .perl.say, not just by .say 15:24
TimToady: a few lines above as well 15:25
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Limbic_Region TimToady is traveling today 15:26
moritz_ Limbic_Region: I presume he'll backlog.. if not, I'll tell him again 15:27
masak moritz_: or @tell him 15:28
moritz_ perhaps better, yes
@tell TimToady in S06:1089 the example output would be produced by .perl.say, not just by .say. The same occures a few lines above
lambdabot Consider it noted.
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masak lambdabot++ # makes backlogging O(1) 15:38
@thanks
lambdabot you are welcome
masak :)
moritz_ that's the usefullest feature by far ;-) 15:39
masak believes in showing proper respect towards our bots
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moritz_ is off to lunch & 17:12
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Zero_Dogg I'm wondering, what is the current state of Perl 6? Ie. when might one expect to be able to start using the language? 18:10
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araujo Zero_Dogg, you can already use an implementation of it 18:20
pugs
Zero_Dogg yep, I'm more thinking of when it might be something you can really use instead of perl5 18:21
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araujo you already can use it 18:21
Zero_Dogg yeah, I can use it, but I'm talking a "final" stable release. 18:22
araujo ah, that's different 18:27
i heard TimToady once that if a billionaire hired 100 developers to work full time on perl6 , we could have something for the next two year 18:29
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Zero_Dogg ouch 18:30
pmurias a less then full perl6 would still be preferable to perl5 18:32
Zero_Dogg maybe, it does look interesting at least
pmurias taking in regard the possibility of diffrent backends it might be preferable to for example javascript 18:33
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Khisanth araujo: those are really expensive developers ... 18:55
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pmurias fglock: when do you arrive in Vienne? 19:24
fglock pmurias: monday afternoon 19:25
pmurias arrives at sunday evening 19:27
araujo Khisanth, dont know, ask TimToady
:-P
pmurias one might get a special rate for such a large amount ;) 19:28
Khisanth araujo: unless he meant 100 contractors with sub and sub sub contractors :P 19:29
araujo wouldn't mind to be one of those developers though 19:30
:-)
pugs_svnbot r17442 | fglock++ | [kp6] Method.APPLY 19:31
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17442
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17442 - Pugs - Trac
Khisanth araujo: you wouldn't be paid much :P 19:32
araujo Khisanth, right, now you want to compete for one position too ;-) 19:33
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Khisanth hires araujo for 2 years of work for $1k USD :P 19:34
araujo to work on perl6? ... i thought the idea it'd be that get done in this lifetime :-D 19:35
moritz_ pmurias, fglock: is there a place where I can implement List methods? 19:48
I could start in Runtime/Perl6/Array.pm, but they are not array specific 19:49
pmurias looking
kp6 dosn't seem to have an List class 19:50
so it could go into Array
moritz_ does kp6 support push? 19:52
pmurias isn't List just an immutable array
yse
moritz_ #kp6 my @a; push @a, "f";
exp_evalbot r17442: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling APPLY HASH(0x82c434c) KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::DispatchSugar::Dispatch=HASH(0x82c4358) on invalid object:$VAR1 = {};ā¤ā¤ at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 31ā¤ main::DISPATCH('undef', 'APPLY', 'HASH(0x82c434c)',
..'KindaPerl6::Runtime::Perl5::DispatchSugar::Dispatch=HASH(0x82...') called at - line 3ā¤]
moritz_ #kp6 my @a; push @a.push("f")
exp_evalbot r17442: OUTPUT[DISPATCH: calling APPLY 1 on invalid object:$VAR1 = {};ā¤ā¤ at lib5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 31ā¤ main::DISPATCH('undef', 'APPLY', 1) called at - line 3ā¤]
moritz_ I think an Array is a named List
but I'm not sure
pmurias some methods are defined in MOP.pm 19:53
moritz_ tries his luck with grep 19:54
fglock it would be nice to have a List class
pmurias #kp6 my @a;@a.push("f");
exp_evalbot r17442: No output
pugs_svnbot r17443 | fglock++ | [kp6] use .APPLY to call looked-up Methods
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17443
Eidolos so I'm trying to get a darcs checkout of the pugs tree 19:55
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17443 - Pugs - Trac
pmurias #kp6 my @a;@a.push("f");say @a;
exp_evalbot r17442: OUTPUT[fā¤]
Eidolos and it's failing at patch #554, which is mugwump's "delete dup. sorry"
moritz_ Eidolos: most people here use svn or svk
Eidolos yeah
I saw the darcs mirror and had to try it :) 19:56
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fglock moritz_: Array is in Perl5/MOP.pm:750, and the high-level impl is in Perl6/Array.pm 19:57
under Runtime/
moritz_ yeah, found it
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fglock it looks like we need to reclassify kp6 Method as a Container, per S02 20:09
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pugs_svnbot r17444 | fglock++ | [kp6] Value.WHICH 20:19
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17444
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17444 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r17445 | moritz++ | [kp6] @array.grep 20:25
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17445
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17445 - Pugs - Trac
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pugs_svnbot r17446 | fglock++ | [kp6] marked 'invocant' as TODO; Code.code 20:37
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17446
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17446 - Pugs - Trac
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markstos_ What is the relationship between "Kinda Perl 6" and "Not Quite Perl" ? 21:15
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allbery_b afaik they're both stages in the ongoing pugs and parrot implementations of the perl6 spec 21:21
Eidolos NQP isn't intended to be a full Perl 6 imp 21:23
it's supposed to be a minimal version to make tree transformations easier, I think
markstos_ Right, I understand that both are supposed to be specific sub-sets of Perl 6.
Eidolos (to displace PIR for that) 21:24
I'm not sure what KP6 is :)
except that it's similar
markstos_ svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/v6/v6-Kind...cs/FAQ.pod
The FAQ talks about a "parrot backend", but it's clear that this is meant to involve NQP, or direct PIR code. 21:25
Eidolos hmm, maybe KP6 is the end goal of the 6-in-6 project
NQP is pretty new, so I don't know about that
markstos_ I tried NQP today. It had good performance...much better than my experiments with pugs or P6-on-P5. 21:26
I just about to write up a little blog entry about the experience, but I wanted to get my facts and relatioships straight. 21:27
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Eidolos I'll defer to someone who actually has a clue :) 21:27
Eidolos hasn't been following too closely
fglock_ kp6 is mean as a full Perl6 implementation, but before it bootstraps, the source code only uses a subset of Perl6 21:32
meant
several kp6 runtime modules are already compiled by kp6 21:33
markstos_ Thanks for the answer, fglock_ 21:36
So, does it use "NQP" as a backend at all? How is the parrot backend of kp6 used? 21:37
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markstos_ is downloading v6 0.19 now. 21:42
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fglock kp6 could use parrot through the emitters that were developed for mp6, but they are still quite incomplete 21:43
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markstos_ And I suppose it could use parrot in one of two ways. It could emit direct "PIR" code, or it could emit NPQ compatible Perl6 syntax. 21:45
fglock yes, mp6 worked both ways
markstos_: kp6 source code is currently 3/4 Perl6, 1/4 Perl5
markstos_ Neat. I'm downloading now to test the performance and compare it vs NQP. 21:46
fglock it's not meant to be fast
the priority is correctness 21:47
markstos_ Computers will catch up eventually. :)
fglock the optimizations are 2 phases ahead in the roadmap 21:48
markstos_ I saw that.
In a recent P6 design meeting, Patrick talked about starting to use NQP to write more of Perl6-on-Parrot: use.perl.org/~chromatic/journal/34132 21:49
lambdabot Title: Journal of chromatic (983) 21:50
fglock we've talked a bit about working out a plan together, but this is yet to happen 21:51
markstos_ I was guessing the efforts were separate for now.
My attempt to install v6 0.19 just failed with: "Can't locate Module/CompileV6.pm"
fglock oops - what's that 21:52
markstos_ The ChangeLog says " added: Module::CompileV6", but it is not part of the distribution. 21:54
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fglock still here 21:54
markstos_ Maybe there was a missing entry in the MANIFEST for this?
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markstos_ \ 21:56
fglock the svn log says i added this module in May - I'll add it to MANIFEST
pugs_svnbot r17447 | fglock++ | [v6.pm] added lib/Module/CompileV6.pm to MANIFEST - markstos++ 21:58
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17447
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17447 - Pugs - Trac
renormalist fglock: is v6 on CPAN the same as kp6 or mp6 in pugs? 22:01
fglock v6.pm is perl5/Pugs-Compiler-Perl6/ 22:02
it is written mostly in Perl5
markstos_ We could use a README here to explain "you are in the wrong place": svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/v6/v6.pm/ 22:03
lambdabot Title: Revision 16464: /v6/v6.pm
fglock svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/v6/README 22:04
it needs an update
markstos_ Ah. :)
Ok, once I manually downloaded CompileV6.pm, all the tests passed. 22:05
fglock markstos_: may I add you as comaintainer? 22:06
renormalist I dont find a Module::CompileV6.
(I just try to install v6 too) 22:07
fglock renormalist: svn.pugscode.org/pugs/perl5/Pugs-Co...mpileV6.pm 22:08
lambdabot tinyurl.com/28gr9o
fglock it was left out by mistake
markstos_ fglock: you may. The project is interesting to me, but I'm mostly overbooked with my time now. ( I should really be mowing the yard now... ). 22:09
renormalist and where did markstos_ get it? markstos_ ?
markstos_ I used: wget svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/perl5/Pugs...mpileV6.pm
lambdabot tinyurl.com/28d5us
markstos_ and then I saved it in the blib/lib directory, and after that, "make test" and "make install" passed.
I tried this for a basic test: "echo 42.say | perl -e 'use v6-alpha'" it worked, but I got three warnings about uninitialized values. 22:10
fglock: I believe I'm already a pugs committer, although I don't have an up-to-date tree. 22:11
I just compared the performance of "say(42)" with kp6 and NQP. kp6: 5.6 seconds. NQP: 0.3 seconds... about 15x faster! However kp6 supports 42.say, but with NQP, I had to use a less sugary syntax: say(42); 22:16
fglock markstos_: if you try it again, it might be faster - v6 uses several cache structures 22:17
markstos_: you can now upload v6 to pause if you'd like
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markstos_ Thanks. 22:19
flgock: I wasn't faster the second time. But I can try once more. :)
Or rather, I should say: that's how fast it ran after some repeated runs. 22:20
renormalist markstos_: re v6: did you classical perl Makefile.PL, make test, make install or is there something more. My test are all "dubious" ...
markstos_ But as you said, correctness, not performance is the priority, and it worked correctly.
renormalist: yes. that's what I did. 22:21
renormalist what perl version do I need ? is 5.8.8 enough?
markstos_ "dubious" often means "premature" death.
Yes.
Run just one test and see how it fails. prove -v t/something.t 22:22
You'll also need the "-b" flag.
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renormalist ah, moment, maybe I am using a wrong perl ... 22:24
fglock re correctness - that was kp6 :)
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fglock sleep & 22:29
markstos_ Good night!
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Eidolos Synopsis 4 has a typo "argments" 22:35
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pugs_svnbot r17448 | sartak++ | r37386@onn: sartak | 2007-08-25 18:54:59 -0400 22:59
r17448 | sartak++ | Two small test description fixes
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17448
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17448 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r17449 | sartak++ | r37392@onn: sartak | 2007-08-25 19:05:25 -0400 23:08
r17449 | sartak++ | Corrected a sentence
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17449
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17449 - Pugs - Trac
Eidolos extra karma for using svk? hehe 23:12
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markstos_ I published my new "Not Quite Perl" blog piece. I need to be away from IRC from a bit now, but I'll try to address any feedback when I return. 23:17
pugs.blogs.com/pugs/
lambdabot Title: Pugs
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renormalist markstos_: thanks for the blog entry. I love it to read articles on pugs.blogs.com. En passant I now know how to call nqp. Thanks. 23:35
markstos_ renormalist: you are welcome. And *now* I should really do some yard work. :) 23:40
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renormalist markstos_: what confuses me again is, you call you example with "use v6-alpha" KindaPerl6. Isn't kp6 the Perl6-in-Perl6 implementation and v6 is (yet another) Perl6-in-Perl5 implementation? See my question to fglock above. 23:47
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