pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by diakopter on 11 July 2007.
pugs_svnbot r17674 | lwall++ | [STD] Trying out new <+ws> notation; tracing improvements 00:23
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17674
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17674 - Pugs - Trac
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masak morning :) 05:38
agentzh morning, masak 05:40
masak morning, agentzh
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moritz_ good morning * 06:01
masak morning, moritz_
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masak can anyone tell me a little of what the plans for 6.28.0 are? 07:56
moritz_ dev.pugscode.org/roadmap says "objects" 07:58
lambdabot Title: Roadmap - Pugs - Trac
masak right
moritz_ which would be mostly audreyt++'s MO branch
masak ah
tell me about that
it's something local on audreyt++'s computer? 07:59
moritz_ yes
wait a second... 08:00
moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/out.pl?ch...17#i_18608
lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2007-05-17, tinyurl.com/29p8sk 08:01
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masak oh, so she basically has the MO branch ready? 08:01
moritz_ seems like, yes 08:02
masak almost four months ago...
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michaelkohwj hi all, is this the right place to express opinons about perl 6? (as oppossed to development discussion) 08:06
masak michaelkohwj: sure
moritz_ michaelkohwj: depends on the opinions ;) 08:07
wolverian michaelkohwj, only if they're correct opinions...
moritz_ "p6 is bloatware and dead" is something we hear too often to think it's still fun ;)
pugs_svnbot r17675 | sunnavy++ | more "my" tests
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17675
masak moritz_, wolverian: don't be silly, we need all the opinions, not just the correct ones
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17675 - Pugs - Trac
masak moritz_: we need people come here and tell us that so that we can change their minds before they tell too many other people 08:08
moritz_ masak: #perl6 eq brain washing? ;-)
wolverian masak, it was a joke, I just forgot the :)
masak for starters, how can it be bloatware if it's dead? :)
moritz_ michaelkohwj: go ahead ;)
michaelkohwj ok
masak wolverian: I gathered. but still
wolverian masak, so, please, opinions are great.
er 08:09
that was to michaelkohwj
michaelkohwj wolverian: thanks, i didn't want to go OT
masak moritz_: brainwashing in a very broad sense, yes. but so is everything else
moritz_ brainwashing++
erm
forget it ;) 08:10
michaelkohwj i think that sigils in perl 6 should remain the same as perl 5- yes, you guys want to change them to make perl more english-like, but-
1. this will make life hard for people porting code to perl 6
2. what's so difficult about perl 5 sigils? the sigil stands for "what type of variable do you want to get?"
masak michaelkohwj: what do you mean by "sigils"? $@%& ? 08:11
michaelkohwj i.e. @array1 = (0) x 10;
masak ok
michaelkohwj in per 6: to access element 0, use @array1[0]
masak yes
michaelkohwj in perl 5, $array1[0]
masak I, for one, like the change
michaelkohwj see, in perl 5, the $ says that i want a scalar
masak I understand the idea with the p5 way
moritz_ michaelkohwj: r1 no. 1: that can be automated for 99% of all cases
wolverian michaelkohwj, I think it's a bit too late to change that. did you find the motivation for the change in the relevant apocalypse? I'm sure TimToady_ will fill in if the reasons aren't documented yet very well. 08:12
masak I think the reasons are fairly well documented
moritz_ michaelkohwj: re no. 2: I don't think it's difficult, but beginners tend to have problems with error messages...
they have a $foo[3], and the compiler complains about @foo not being declared, but they never even typed @foo! 08:13
masak michaelkohwj: given that the p6 way of treating sigils is already more powerful and consistent, I suggest you try it for a while if you haven't already
michaelkohwj TimToady_: sigil 08:15
oops, sorry
masak :)
michaelkohwj: do you have Pugs installed? 08:16
moritz_ dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/apo/A02.html contains a bit of explanation
lambdabot Title: Apocalypse 2: Bits and Pieces - perl6:
moritz_ though just a little bit, really ;)
michaelkohwj masak: nope.. 08:17
masak michaelkohwj: you should. it's a blast
moritz_ #pugs say "We have evalbots as well"
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[We have evalbots as wellā¤]
michaelkohwj guys, see the latest xkcd, its a coincidence that it's about perl 6 too 08:20
rgs is it ? :)
michaelkohwj rgs: if you intepret it as such 08:21
'that way
moritz_ I didn't recognize it
and I'm pretty much Perl 6 aware, I think
michaelkohwj oh no 08:22
oops
michaelkohwj blushes
ignore the above
moritz_ /ignore the above 08:23
masak :) 08:28
michaelkohwj i misread that
never mind
masak I guess the existence of audreyt++'s MO branch means I shouldn't spend time hacking the OO parts of Pugs 08:29
moritz_ michaelkohwj: would like to help with Perl 6, by any chance?
s/would/would you/
masak moritz_: aw, just give him the commit bit :)
michaelkohwj moritz_: how? i just started programming in perl a week ago 08:30
masak michaelkohwj: /msg your email address, and we'll send you the privs
michaelkohwj privs
?
masak access to the repository of pugs and other things p6 08:31
that's write access, by the way
michaelkohwj masak: not like i know how to do compiler/intepreter creation
masak some of us do, most don't 08:32
moritz_ michaelkohwj: I wrote a summary of what can be done here: www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=628746
lambdabot Title: Getting Involved with Perl 6
masak moritz_++
08:33 iblechbot left
sunnavy moritz_++ 08:33
michaelkohwj masak: alright then, ill try out the non-compiler-programming stuff 08:34
masak michaelkohwj: cool
sunnavy michaelkohwj: welcome, :-) 08:36
masak hm, commitbit.pugscode.org is not responding 08:37
michaelkohwj masak: yes 08:38
masak michaelkohwj: "yes", as in "yes, it is?"
not here, it isn't 08:39
michaelkohwj masak: yes, it is not responding
masak ah, ok :)
everyone, how to add a committer without commitbit.pugscode.org? 08:40
moritz_ I don't think that's possible atm
masak that's terrible news
moritz_ I already asked obra++ if there's a command line interface, but that doesn't seem to be the case 08:41
michaelkohwj masak: its ok
masak :(
michaelkohwj: I'm going to have to stall indefinitely on your commit bit, it seems
but I'll keep the email address you sent me
and since I'll be hanging here almost daily, I'll know when commitbit is back up 08:42
one of these days you'll get an email with commit rights :)
in the meantime, just hand patches to someone else (hardly an optimal solution, I know) 08:43
who hosts commitbit.pugscode.org? why is it down? how many people are working on getting it back up?
moritz_ masak: it's hosted on feather, and the situation will improve with the hardware upgrade Juerd++ promised recently 08:44
masak moritz_: eh. 08:45
why not now?
moritz_ don't know - moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/out.pl?ch...03#i_95978 08:46
lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2007-09-03, tinyurl.com/23aag5
moritz_ hey, feather's load is < 4 ;-) 08:47
masak what's sslh?
moritz_ that's a daemon that automagically accepts https and ssh connections on the same port 08:48
just to fool corporate firewalls :( 08:49
masak is that a req for commitbit?
moritz_ no
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masak so, what's lacking that needs a hardware upgrade? 08:49
moritz_ scroll up a bit ;) 08:50
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masak ah, "<obra>: the problem is that feather is fucked up and has horrible performance for large file scans. (like what sqlite does all the time)" 08:51
so, we've basically locked in our meta-committer system in a database on a machine that is currently too slow to run it, without any alternative means of reaching/changing the data? :/ 08:52
moritz_ masak: seems like, yes 08:54
masak that's amazingly short-sighted of us. not like us at all
I just wish there was some sort of plan of action 08:55
moritz_ masak: you mean besides waiting for hardware? ;_9
masak that's not a plan
is obra the one to ask about the commitbit system? there must be some way of accessing the data 08:56
I mean, the web server does it
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michaelkohwj masak: that's ok, i'm still learning perl =) 09:13
masak michaelkohwj: I just think it's a bad state of affairs for things to be in, that's all
#perl6 really thrives on inviting people to collaborate 09:14
michaelkohwj: but by all means, start by downloading pugs
and taking a look at it
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michaelkohwj masak: ok 09:15
masak michaelkohwj: www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....oad_perl_6
lambdabot Title: Download Perl 6 / Perl 6
michaelkohwj lambdabot: pugs 09:18
masak @google pugscode 09:24
lambdabot run.pugscode.org/
Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
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pmurias hi 09:46
masak pmurias: hi
pugs_svnbot r17676 | ruoso++ | [kp6] Merging the changes from lib-kp6-mp6 to lib-kp6-kp6 -r17629:HEAD 09:49
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17676
michaelkohwj masak: cool! it has a shell-like command history recall with the arrow keys! 09:51
ignore the dead link in that site at the bottom, i emailed the webmaster 09:56
moritz_ michaelkohwj: which dead link? 09:58
masak looks like the "Perl 6" link has an extra space in it 09:59
michaelkohwj yes, but thats a small issue
masak michaelkohwj: thanks for noticing and notifying the webmaster
michaelkohwj++ 10:00
michaelkohwj np 10:01
moritz_ it seems to be fixed in the repo, only comments contain 'perl 6' 10:02
michaelkohwj gtg home cya 10:04
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pugs_svnbot r17677 | moritz++ | [runpugs] fixed links (though only in comments) 10:04
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17677
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17677 - Pugs - Trac
masak wonder if the page needs to be updated manually somehow? 10:05
moritz_ maybe
masak in fact, the "development version" featured on the page is quite old, too: r17041 10:07
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riffraff ciao 10:11
masak y0
moritz_ masak: that's... uhm.. just 400 revisions behind 10:12
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pmurias fglock: hi 10:12
moritz_ but there weren't many pugs changes in the mean time iirc 10:13
fglock hi
pmurias i'll add a :p5 option to tokens to enable porting of Runtime::Perl5::Grammar to p6
fglock pmurias: i'd rather fix it to work in p6 land
Runtime::Perl5::* is meant as p6-land code 10:14
pmurias it could be moved 10:15
where should backend specific files in p6 live?
masak moritz_: that may be, but it's an indication that the page is not updated automatically 10:16
fglock pmurias: Runtime::Perl5::* is ok, but it needs to use the kp6 calling convention (tokens are using mp6 calling convention) 10:17
pmurias the tokens in Runtime::Perl5::Grammar, the ones writen in kp6 don't? 10:20
fglock the ones writen in kp6 should be generated correctly already 10:21
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pmurias k 10:23
how should i modifiy the ast? 10:28
Juerd Announcement: SPPN (Dutch foundation for the promotion of Perl) has also sponsored feather's hardware upgrade.
10:28 cognominal__ joined
pmurias is a p5 attr on Token ok? 10:28
moritz_ SPPN++
fglock pmurias: why do you need to modify the ast? 10:29
Juerd They enable an even better upgrade (harddisks, even better CPU), and generously offered to compensate my time
I'm ordering the new components today 10:30
wolverian Juerd, nice :)
allbery_b I just got a propfind failed: can't connect to svn.pugscoode.org error. expected?
pmurias token newline :p5 {\n}
Juerd The bad news is that feather will be offline either tomorrow or the day after tomorrow :)
allbery_b (i.e. is thie discussion of feather h/w upgrade related?)(
pmurias has to be represented as something
allbery_b pretend I spelled pugscode right
pmurias OTOHO i might emit is as a subroutine call 10:31
moritz_ allbery_b: that happens from time to time (and yes, it is ;)
allbery_b tried to update my existing tree
ah, ok
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pmurias &newline := p5token("\n")? 10:31
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Juerd allbery_b: feather is the shared Perl 6 development server, and is heavily overloaded to the level that new account requests are currently denied even. 10:31
pmurias fglock: makes sense?
allbery_b ah
fglock hmm
Juerd allbery_b: Its hardware will be upgraded, and the shared part is turned into a virtual server ("feather1") on top of a Xen domain-0 ("feather0"). Some services, like runpugs, can be moved to their own virtual machines ("feather2", ...) so they no longer interfere with the rest. 10:32
fglock i'd rather keep this as p5 code, with kp6 calling convention
ruoso fglock, that kinda hard to write and maintain 10:34
moritz_ harder than two branches of kp6? ;-)
ruoso writing a small subroutine that encapsulates most of it is usually easier
moritz_, heh
pmurias fglock: why would you prefere to keep it p5 code? 10:35
fglock because it's just a few lines of code, i think it doesn't need the syntax sugar 10:37
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fglock and &newline := p5token("\n") is not much portable 10:38
and kp6 doesn't recognize "\n"
pmurias that can me fixed 10:39
fglock ok
pmurias i think most possible backends understand p5 regex
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pmurias fglock: i'm doing it on Ast level 10:39
s/.*// 10:40
it's actually &newline := p5token('\n')
fglock i wonder if it could break perl5rx 10:41
possibly not
pmurias fglock: why? 10:43
would it break
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pugs_svnbot r17678 | ruoso++ | [kp6] trying to visualize a PAD-centered compiler/interpreter 10:45
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17678
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17678 - Pugs - Trac
fglock pmurias: i think it is ok to implement this in kp6-kp6
but if you need an AST transform, please add it as a separate visitor 10:46
wolverian isn't kp6-kp6 = 0? 10:48
fglock it's NaN 10:49
wolverian ah
ruoso wolverian, that I don't know, but kp6-mp6 + kp6-kp6 = kp6
wolverian interesting
ruoso but that's probably the reason fglock was trying to give the right-hand operator above a different name 10:52
AlmostPerl6 ;)
LooksLikePerl6
or something like that
wolverian operand?
ruoso yep yep
sry
wolverian somethingalongthelinesofperl6 10:53
resemblesperl6ifyouturnitupsidedownanddon'tlooktooclosely
too long, maybe.
ruoso rp6iytiudadltc
yeah... bad acronym too 10:54
fglock, the PAD centered thing may even provide a nice way to do the typemappings between p6 and p5
fglock ruoso: how? 10:55
ruoso as the parent pad would know one of its children is a p5 pad, and the child pad would know that its parent is a p6 pad
a macro language like XS would be needed anyway... 10:56
but it's possible to do it using pads that way
a XS-like macro language in p5 10:57
that sounds scary
pmurias ruoso: you want this for use Foo:from<perl5>? 10:58
ruoso pmurias, not exactly 10:59
but yes, that would be a side effect
I'm thinking about the compiler architecture 11:00
pmurias seen your diagram 11:04
buubot pmurias: Sorry, I haven't seen your
pmurias i think i understand
i don't think an XS like language would be needed 11:05
as p5 and p6 types corespond closly
ruoso pmurias, do they? 11:06
you can't even "shift" the arguments from p6 in p5? 11:07
!
s/?/!/
and after that, you cant use print $var;
because the $var is a hash
even if it's a string
pmurias ruoso: they are diffent at the internal level 11:09
ruoso ahm?
pmurias s/diffent/different/
ruoso they are different at the p5 level 11:10
pmurias at the implementation level
ruoso yep
so...
pmurias you have still to do the conversion
ruoso and that's what the XS-like macro language would help to do 11:11
pmurias but you can do it automaticly
ruoso but the question is if you want to
because that implies in even more overhead
fglock, the PAD thing is nice because it handles lexical grammar changes 11:13
fglock, (which I just realized it was what you was saying before)
ruoso took some time to get that...
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ruoso lunch & 11:16
pugs_svnbot r17679 | fglock++ | [kp6] make forcerecompile 11:24
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17679
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pmurias fglock: regarding implementing the :P5 modifier in kp6-kp6, does kp6-kp6 work right now? 12:37
or should i just port the changes when it starts to work 12:38
?
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pugs_svnbot r17680 | pmurias++ | [kp6] - initial :P5 modifier implementation 12:40
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17680
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17680 - Pugs - Trac
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fglock pmurias: re kp6-kp6, there are still some things missing 13:14
match_p5rx should return a p6 Match; there is some possible reusable code in PCR that collects p5 match results 13:16
svn.pugscode.org/pugs/perl5/Pugs-Co...exPerl5.pm 13:17
lambdabot tinyurl.com/2d3mqm
fglock i think we should implement named parameters before bootstrapping 13:18
so that .new() works properly 13:19
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fglock a possible simplification is to allow either named or positionals (but not mixed) 13:19
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pmurias fglock: i agree that we should implement named parameters now 13:57
fglock pmurias: i'm adding it to the grammar 13:58
pmurias k 13:59
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pmurias fglock: i'll modify CAPTURIZE to use a capture if it 14:03
's passed as the only parameter
fglock ok
pmurias which compiler branch are you changing? 14:04
kp6-mp6 or kp6-kp6?
fglock kp6-mp6, will merge later 14:05
pmurias ok
i'll work on that one too 14:06
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pugs_svnbot r17681 | fglock++ | [kp6] minor changes to grammar; allows pairs as parameters 14:11
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17681
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17681 - Pugs - Trac
fglock oops - i lost token_P5, reverting
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wolverian holy crap, these windows computers have perl4 installed 14:12
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moritz_ wolverian: and I thought Perl 5.6 was old ;) 14:21
fglock help
buubot fglock: Available Plugins: oeis jeval spell cpan shorten rt topic squeeze rbeval acronym change managementspeak reverse join translate bibleit core imdb insult tv help echo eval convert jseval mangle restart quit deparse part pyeval reload_plugins goobooblink heap_test rss
wolverian moritz_, '93 :)
fglock i don't know how to revert my changes 14:22
moritz_ I don't know either, but you can try to svk up -r $last_revision, and then commit again
fglock moritz_: i tried, but it doesn't commit
moritz_ hrmpf 14:23
fglock "No targets to commit."
moritz_ maybe if you add small changes? (whitespaces)
fglock it seems i can only revert locally
pmurias svk merge
moritz_ that's an ugly workaround, I know
14:23 cognominal__ joined
pmurias can be used for reverting changes 14:23
svk merge -r N:N-1 14:24
for reverting changes at revision N 14:25
wolverian wow, svk is slow on feather 14:27
'svk help' took a minute to run
using all available cpu
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fglock "svk merge -r HEAD:18575" invokes the svk help 14:32
rgs "svk merge -r HEAD:18575 . ." 14:34
pmurias svk merge -r 8048:8047 //pugs/v6/v6-KindaPerl6 also worked here 14:36
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pmurias fglock: assuming single captures are only created by the new calling convetion makes some tests fail 14:38
* convention
i need something like func(\(...),'newcc') is it ok?
Juerd wolverian: Everything is currently slow on feather 14:40
I've just, 10 minutes ago, ordered the components for feather v2
fglock pmurias: i don't understand - how did it break? 14:41
Juerd Core2Duo E6550 2330 MHz, 4 GB RAM, SATA 160 GB in RAID 1 14:42
On a nice Intel mainboard
fglock pmurias: i'm not changing the calling convention yet
wolverian Juerd, well, vim starts instantly
Juerd wolverian: vim's in cache :)
wolverian you'd think svk is too..
(even with all the modules)
Juerd wolverian: The numerous small files svk has to use are constantly pushed out of the buffer, I guess
wolverian yeah. 14:43
Juerd wolverian: Don't forget that feather used to have 2 GB RAM, and that 1 GB died.
1 GB, shared with 10 people, isn't much :)
320 MB of swap space is in use right now
pmurias fglock: captures passed with the old calling conventions are mistaken for the new one 14:44
Juerd I'll probably assign 2,5 GB to feather1
0,5 GB to feather0, feather2, and feather3 each.
wolverian ouch, I didn't know that
Juerd 3 can run all the public eval stuff 14:45
fglock pmurias: i'm not sure what you mean, what's old and new
Juerd 2 can be used for important stuff like the main SVN repos.
Only feather1 stays as it is: semi-public access, and 0,2,3 will be more restricted.
diakopter: Are you available to migrate things across servers in a week or so? 14:46
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pmurias fglock: the new calling convention is the one with all parameters passed in a capture, the old one is all parameters passed as positionals in @_ 14:49
pugs_svnbot r17682 | fglock++ | [kp6] recompiled grammar
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17682
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17682 - Pugs - Trac
fglock pmurias: that's a painful change
pmurias so we aren't going to do it?
fglock hmm - i think it needs some migration plan 14:50
pmurias all the p6 can be easily migrated, what will cause problems is the p5 stuff 14:52
rgs pesky p5 stuff 14:53
Juerd Heh
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pmurias fglock: i don't know if the change is worth it 14:57
fglock how about push the named args as the last parameter to @_ 14:59
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pmurias fglock: it could be uses as a temporary solution 14:59
fglock yes 15:00
pmurias after the boostrap will have less p5 code
[particle] is kp6 grammar trying to mirror STD?
fglock [particle]: not yet 15:01
[particle] okay, that's the way nqp took, and supports named params now
fglock we need kp6 to do that
[particle] ah, i see. named params aren't native kp6
pmurias [particle]: parsing named params isn't the problem 15:02
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pmurias reading a book& 15:08
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fglock pmurias: i've got an implementation 15:19
pugs_svnbot r17683 | fglock++ | [kp6] fixed Ast for positional args
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17683
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17683 - Pugs - Trac
fglock s/positional/named/ 15:20
ruoso pmurias, p5 modifier is still not merged to kp6-kp6, right? 15:24
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pmurias ruoso: not yet 15:33
ruoso: do you need it 15:34
? 15:37
diakopter Juerd: maybe 15:51
Juerd diakopter: Would be great
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TimToady
.oO(Captures are pretty close to anonymous typeglobs...)
 16:10
fglock i wonder if captures could be pads 16:14
TimToady sounds heavy 16:17
pugs_svnbot r17684 | fglock++ | [kp6] initial change to CAPTURIZE
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17684
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17684 - Pugs - Trac
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ruoso pmurias, it would be nice to keep both as close as possible 16:25
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pugs_svnbot r17685 | fglock++ | [kp6] CAPTURIZE understands named args 16:35
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17685
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17685 - Pugs - Trac
diakopter There's that word again, 'heavy'. Why are things so heavy in the future? 16:36
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ruoso diakopter, because premature optimization is the root of all evil? ;) 16:41
BTW... it looks like the version after kp6 will be p6 in p6 already
completely p6 i mean 16:42
no p5 emitting at all
wolverian cool!
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pmurias ruoso: how do you plan to do it wholly with p6? 16:48
s/with/in/ 16:50
ruoso pmurias, I'm drawing a diagram to explain it 16:53
pmurias ok
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ruoso just notices that it's not quite a diagram, just a flow of ideas using boxes and arrows 16:57
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pugs_svnbot r17686 | ruoso++ | [kp6] writing down ideas of how to write p6-on-p6 based on kp6 17:02
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17686
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17686 - Pugs - Trac
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pmurias ruoso: ah, so you plan to interpret AST 17:06
ruoso yep
but not in kp6...
only in the other version
because kp6 will the door to provide alternative runtimes 17:07
or "vm"s if you wish
pmurias i had thought of something more evil, i'll write when i get back
visiting a friend&
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pugs_svnbot r17687 | fglock++ | [kp6] implemented %_ 17:33
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17687
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17687 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r17688 | fglock++ | [kp6] fixed a test 17:36
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17688
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17688 - Pugs - Trac
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pugs_svnbot r17689 | fglock++ | [kp6] fixed last commit 17:50
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17689
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17689 - Pugs - Trac
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pugs_svnbot r17690 | fglock++ | [kp6] refactored Array and Hash out of MOP 18:11
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17690
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17690 - Pugs - Trac
ruoso merging all changes from lib-kp6-mp6 to lib-kp6-kp6 18:17
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ruoso is always impressed by the time it takes to compile kp6-kp6 18:19
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pugs_svnbot r17691 | fglock++ | [kp6] force recompile 18:23
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17691
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17691 - Pugs - Trac
ruoso probably needs to recompile again 18:24
pugs_svnbot r17692 | ruoso++ | [kp6] merging changes from kp6-mp6 to kp6-kp6. (r17676:HEAD). all tests pass in both runtimes
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17692
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17692 - Pugs - Trac
ruoso recompiling again
[particle] updates to look at kp6
fglock is always impressed by ruoso patience
[particle] nothingmuch: ping 18:25
nothingmuch [particle]: pong
TimToady it takes pugs a minute or two to recompile STD; I hate to think how long STD on STD would take...
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ruoso I have been thinking... 18:26
and I still can't see an easy way to p5 and p6 to interoperate
we'll need a XS-like glue 18:27
between them
the semantics are too much different... 18:28
fglock, that temp.pm thing in kp6-mp6 compilation is really necessary?
it prevents the use of make -j 18:29
s/-j/-j2/
fglock i think so, otherwise you end up modifying a lib that is in use
ruoso so, I'll think I'll hack it to use a temp name
instead of a fixed "temp.pm" name
fglock ok 18:30
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pmurias ruoso: the temp.pm file used in kp6-mp6 compilation is used to avoid creating empty files 18:31
so that you don't have to svk revert to recompile if there is a syntax error 18:32
it used to be without it
ruoso pmurias, I'll create a file named the same as the original with a .temp appended
instead of a fixed temp file
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pugs_svnbot r17693 | ruoso++ | [kp6] recompilation after merge 18:35
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17693
renormalist irc looks like you solved kp6-in-kp6, is that true? 18:36
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fglock renormalist: it is still missing a few runtime tweaks, as it no longer uses the mp6 calling convention internally 18:38
ruoso yep.. kp6-kp6 still doesn't run 18:41
pmurias ruoso: not perltidy'ing everything might speed the compliation up
pugs_svnbot r17694 | ruoso++ | [kp6] allows -j2 in make
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17694
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17694 - Pugs - Trac
ruoso pmurias, I think we can remove that already
we're having less problems with the generated code
nothingmuch ?w 61 18:42
lambdabot Maybe you meant: web1913 what where where+ wiki wikipedia wn world02 . v
fglock perltidy results in more readable diffs 18:43
ruoso in fact
nothingmuch except for the diff where you started using it ;-)
ruoso that's a good reason
nothingmuch consistency makes for readable diffs 18:44
ruoso hails to the goodness of wdiff
but -j2 already helps a lot in the time it takes 18:45
considering you have a dual core processor
pmurias dosn't 18:46
renormalist had to revert Test::Harness to stable
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[particle] rats, the kp6 makefile isn't windows friendly 18:48
s/windows/nmake/
ruoso [particle], oops
[particle] $(patsubst ...), $(wildcard ...) etc
ruoso but at this moment you don't need to issue make 18:49
[particle] i'm trying with 'make' now
fglock [particle]: make'ing is optional
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fglock it just p5 code 18:49
ruoso svn contains the runnable code as well
[particle], unless you have a sh-like shell, it won't work in windows 18:50
there are also shell constructs in the kp6-mp6 compilation
[particle] btw jhorwitz has made great progress with mod_perl6: nopaste.snit.ch:8001/11083 and www.smashing.org/sandbox/perl6-handlers/counter
fglock yay! 18:52
is it based on mod_parrot?
renormalist [particle]: what does mod_perl6 run on? pugs? kp6?
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jhorwitz parrot's perl6 compiler on top of mod_parrot 18:54
jhorwitz awakens from two years of slumber on #perl6
[particle] i wonder what jhorwitz will do after coffee and breakfast.... 18:55
pmurias how can one have an error at line 0?
eval {...} called at lib-kp6-kp6-p5//KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl6/Compiler.pm line 0
buubot pmurias: ''ERROR: syntax error at (eval 212) line 1, near "{..."
jhorwitz [particle]: that's nap time!
ruoso pmurias, you're trying to run kp6-kp6
right?
pmurias yes
ruoso yep... that's really weird 18:56
it does say line 0
but I think that's from kp6 itself, not from pelr
perl
so, it's not so weird 18:57
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pmurias the backtrace is generated by perl 18:57
by Carp::confess 18:58
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ruoso hmmm.. the global variable initialization is broken again 18:58
in kp6-kp6
fglock jhorwitz: congrats!
pmurias ruoso: what should i do if i want to help with kp6-kp6 18:59
?
jhorwitz fglock: thanks. pmichaud++ and particle++ for lots of help catching up with parrot
ruoso pmurias, port Pad.pm to kp6 calling convention 19:00
pmurias ok
ruoso and all other files in docs/KP6-Bootstrap-Notes.txt
fglock pmurias: you can now use named parameters in .new() - this should make things easier
hmm - i need to reimplement .new 19:01
ruoso hmmm... globals are broken in both runtimes
intersting
pmurias global being 19:02
?
pugs_svnbot r17695 | ruoso++ | [kp6] setting a global variable is broken in both runtimes
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17695
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17695 - Pugs - Trac
pmurias ruoso: it Global.pm
being a pain 19:03
it turn Main::foo into GLOBAL::Main::fo
o
ruoso but, is the variable being initialized somewhere?
fglock looking
pmurias irc eats a my 's' chars 19:05
*all
;)
fglock where can i read more about BUILD() vs. new() vs. bless() ? 19:06
ruoso it's not being initialized at all 19:07
pmurias, the translation to GLOBAL::Main::foo kinda makes sens
but the problem is that it doesn't initializes it anyway
I made a hack other time 19:08
I could do again
fglock ruoso: yes, the AST transformations are ignoring globals
ruoso which is to test inside the DISPATCH_VAR if $_[0] is undef
and in this case, define it...
fglock this may mask real errors
i'd rather fix it
though globals are autovivified in p6 too, right? 19:09
ruoso the problem with that is that you never know when to initialize the global
I think so
fglock so i think it is ok to autovivify then
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pmurias ruoso: i think Pad.pm could be ported to perl6 19:14
ruoso fglock, which is the correct way of doing the variable initialization to a container with undef in p5 land?
I'm doing a $_[0] = ::DISPATCH( $::meta_Container, 'new' ); 19:15
and it doesn't seems to be ok
fglock ruoso: see the initialization of 'my' vars in compiloed code
::DISPATCH( $::Container, 'new' ) 19:16
oops
$::Scalar
renormalist lib-kp6-mp6/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/Compiler.pm does not have a finishing 1; at the end. Is that wanted?
I have compile errors due to this, but not always, eg. not when I do a complete make 19:17
ruoso hmmm 19:20
fglock, not enough
Undefined subroutine &main:: called at lib-kp6-mp6-p5/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl5/MOP.pm line 711 19:21
fglock hmm - you may need to assign $::Undef to it
pmurias renormalist: you can probably add '1;'
fglock: you shouldn't have to 19:22
ruoso pmurias, in fact... it already is undef by default 19:23
fglock ruoso: i'll fix it
pmurias FETCH returns ::DISPATCH($::Undef,'new',0) if you have p5 undef
i remember modifing it to do so 19:24
ruoso fglock, I think it needs to be done in a AST transform 19:25
to add the auto-vivifying code in the code itself
pmurias well we could have :: call a method on the package object 19:26
it would come in handy for :from<perl5> for non-oo modules
fglock hmm - i don't think i can fix it right now - i'm tired :P 19:28
we need a new implementation of namespaces 19:29
ruoso fglock, can we hold it for the version after kp6 bootstrap?
fglock yes, if you can work around globals 19:30
home & 19:33
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pugs_svnbot r17696 | pmurias++ | [kp6-kp6] Runtime/Perl6/Grammar.pm 19:50
r17696 | pmurias++ | translation to p6 - dosn't compile or run yet
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17696
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17696 - Pugs - Trac
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lichtkind moritz_: hihi 20:05
pmurias lichtkind: hellohello 20:07
lichtkind pmurias: hello, so glad to be in perl channel since weeks 20:09
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renormalist lichtkind: why were you absent? vacation? 20:11
lichtkind renormalist: pilgrim in spain 20:12
Patterner no yapc:eu? 20:13
lichtkind Patterner: no german perl workshop was enough for me
szbalint yapc:eu was nice :) 20:16
20:16 ChanServ sets mode: +o diakopter 20:17 diakopter sets mode: +o TimToady
lichtkind szbalint: yea tinita is currently explaining it :) 20:17
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pmurias sleep& 20:51
why do i have to sleep when i start having most fun hacking on something? ;)
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pugs_svnbot r17697 | renormalist++ | - just a finishing ;1 , no more, no less 21:26
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/17697
lambdabot Title: Changeset 17697 - Pugs - Trac
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