pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by diakopter on 11 July 2007.
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dduncan pugscode is back now 00:17
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davidfetter yay! 00:19
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avar @tell fglock If you tell me what the hell you're trying to do with global.lisp maybe I could implement it >:) 01:23
lambdabot Consider it noted.
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ahmadz hi, is feather right now offline? 01:27
@seen feather ? ;-)
lambdabot I haven't seen feather.
ahmadz @karma feather 01:28
lambdabot feather has a karma of 0
ahmadz @localtime feather
avar @localtime avar 01:30
lambdabot Local time for avar is Fri Sep 21 01:30:08 2007
ahmadz @localtime ahmadz
lambdabot Local time for ahmadz is Fri Sep 21 04:30:35 2007
ahmadz @karma ahmadz
lambdabot You have a karma of 2
ahmadz not bad ;-)
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hoelzro @localtime hoelzro 01:31
avar ahmadz++
YOU GROW STRONGAH
ahmadz @karma ahmadz
lambdabot You have a karma of 3
hoelzro what, have I no local time?
@karma hoelzro
lambdabot You have a karma of 3
avar @remotetime hoelzro
lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
avar @list
lambdabot www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/lambdabot/COMMANDS
ahmadz i slept to wake and work on runpugs in the morning but pugscode/feather seem to be offline :-( 01:32
hoelzro =( 01:33
ferreira when feather is online again, the next micro-article will there at feather.perl6.nl/~ferreira/perl6-op...epeat.html and repeat.pod6 01:34
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hoelzro you plan on working on pugs, ahmadz? 01:34
ahmadz runpugs
hoelzro: finishing the tutorial part of "run perl6 on your browser" 01:35
hoelzro ah
ferreira Juerd warned about interruptions from 0AM to 4AM. I forgot that and don't have a single copy of the article in another machine.
see you tomorrow.
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ahmadz @localtime juerd 01:56
lambdabot Local time for Juerd is Fri Sep 21 03:56:48 2007
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pasteling "pugsbot_r17185" at 193.200.132.135 pasted "Pugs build failure" (6 lines, 278B) at sial.org/pbot/27608 02:12
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Juerd Flipped the wrong switch, sorry 02:27
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Aankhen`` avar: Yeesh, why on Earth did you change everything to camelCase? 05:53
Rather, even worse, hyphenated-CamelCase.
platypus The worse of all worlds.
Aankhen`` grins.
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avar Aankhen``: to mirror the p6 names 05:59
Aankhen`` "Bah", I say. "Bah". 06:01
avar: A few thingsā€¦ first, what is the value of a container? Second, why do you specify a VALUE slot for kp6-Hash when it already inherits one from kp6-Container? 06:02
avar Aankhen``: hlagh 06:03
Aankhen`` Third, why did you remove kp6-object from kp6-Container's superclass list?
avar clean it up then:)
Aankhen`` Answer the first and third questions first. :-P
pugs_svnbot r18034 | Aankhen++ | [kp6-lisp] 06:13
r18034 | Aankhen++ | * kp6-Container inherits from kp6-Object.
r18034 | Aankhen++ | * added a BIT slot to kp6-Object.
r18034 | Aankhen++ | * changed STR method to be defined with DEFGENERIC.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18034
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18034 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r18035 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] removed references to KP6-GLOBAL package. 06:16
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18035
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18035 - Pugs - Trac
avar fix say() kthx 06:17
pugs_svnbot r18036 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] indentation in GLOBAL.lisp
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18036
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18036 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r18037 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] initarg for kp6-Bit's BIT slot. 06:20
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18037
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18037 - Pugs - Trac
Aankhen`` o_O 06:21
Interesting hash stuff.
avar light it up 06:22
Aankhen`` Sure. 06:23
Seeing as how you wrote KP6-LOOKUP to operate on an instance of KP6-HASH and then pass it a quoted symbol instead, I think I may have found the problem. 06:24
Aankhen`` goes to shower. 06:29
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Aankhen`` avar: Okay, got the packages things done in a simple form. 07:13
pugs_svnbot r18038 | Aankhen++ | [kp6-lisp]
r18038 | Aankhen++ | * added kp6-Package class.
r18038 | Aankhen++ | * removed initarg for VALUE slot of kp6-Hash.
r18038 | Aankhen++ | * added Object.lisp to load list.
r18038 | Aankhen++ | * fixed syntax for kp6-Object class definition.
r18038 | Aankhen++ | * added package manipulation functions in GLOBAL.lisp
r18038 | Aankhen++ | * changed Code_say to use TERPRI instead of FORMAT for the newline.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18038
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18038 - Pugs - Trac
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Aankhen`` I'm out, later. 07:16
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jisom anyone around? 08:21
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jisom the bot might answer me, 74.134.230.123/ 08:29
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pugs_svnbot r18039 | ruoso++ | [kp6] prefix:<$> calls scalar on the object. Match.scalar returns result or self.str 09:34
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18039
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18039 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r18040 | ruoso++ | [kp6] using attr directly. Accessors are bad right now... 09:40
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18040
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18040 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r18041 | ruoso++ | [kp6] new failing test. Object acessors are not working... 09:43
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18041
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18041 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r18042 | ruoso++ | [kp6] object accessors now work... 09:49
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18042
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18042 - Pugs - Trac
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pugs_svnbot r18043 | ruoso++ | [kp6] params to constructor inside rule compile fine but do nothing... 10:22
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18043
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18043 - Pugs - Trac
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gaal Haskell is less painful than LISP: scienceblogs.com/loom/2007/09/21/ma...rkings.php 10:30
lambdabot Title: The Loom : Mathematical Markings
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ferreira comments and suggestions on the draft micro-article on repeat operators are very welcome. Read it at feather.perl6.nl/~ferreira/perl6-op...epeat.html 10:41
lambdabot Title: repeat.pod6
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ruoso ferreira, shouldn't Marker->new be Marker.new ? 11:09
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pugs_svnbot r18044 | fglock++ | [kp6] fix ::Obj() emitter 11:10
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18044
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18044 - Pugs - Trac
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ferreira ruoso: oops. indeed 11:17
ferreira: fixed 11:18
hey, I am talking to myself ;-) 11:19
by the way, yesterday the article on stitching (the ~ operator) hitted the 12th position on The Hot 25. Maybe this series get popular :) 11:20
The Hot 25 is seen at the right of this O'Reilly page: www.oreillynet.com/blogs/
lambdabot Title: O'Reilly Network Blogs
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szbalint cool 11:26
pugs_svnbot r18045 | fglock++ | [kp6] set svk eol, mime-type properties 11:28
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18045
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18045 - Pugs - Trac
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fglock Aankhen``: ping 11:40
lambdabot fglock: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
Aankhen`` fglock: What's up?
fglock OSX doesnĀ“t know the difference between Package.lisp and package.lisp, and it messed up
Aankhen`` Whoops.
Sorry, I'll fix that. 11:41
fglock thanks
Aankhen`` Give me a minute, waiting for the VM to be restored.
Oh man. 11:44
Done. 11:47
pugs_svnbot r18046 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] renamed package.lisp to defpackage.lisp to prevent name conflicts.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18046
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18046 - Pugs - Trac
Aankhen`` Sorry about the delay, my VM lost its network connection.
pugs_svnbot r18047 | ryporter++ | change double to single quotes, to fix a unit test 11:50
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18047
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18047 - Pugs - Trac
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ahmadz kp6: my @a = <foo 1 2 3>; 12:19
exp_evalbot r18047: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 6, line 1 column 6:ā¤my @a = <foo 1 2 3>ā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
ahmadz perl6: my @a = <foo 1 2 3>; 12:20
exp_evalbot kp6: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 6, line 1 column 6:ā¤my @a = <foo 1 2 3>ā¤ ^ HEREā¤]
..pugs: OUTPUT[["foo", "1", "2", "3"]ā¤]
..p6: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in invoke()ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;Perl6::Compiler;main' pc 138 (perl6.pir:98)ā¤]
..nqp: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "@a = <foo "ā¤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 123 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)ā¤called from Sub 'parrot;NQP::Grammar;statement_list' pc 3574 (src/Grammar_gen.pir:1275)ā¤called from Sub 'parrot;NQP::Grammar;TOP' pc
..537 (src/Grammar_gen.pir:103)ā¤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCo...]
ahmadz pugs: my @a = <foo 1 2 3>; 12:21
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[["foo", "1", "2", "3"]ā¤]
Aankhen`` What theā€¦ 12:23
ruoso fglock, wooohooo 12:24
I made it
Aankhen`` Something blew away my defpackage.lisp.
ruoso it's weird and dirty
but works
pasteling "ruoso" at 82.154.252.25 pasted "named argument support in new" (27 lines, 1K) at sial.org/pbot/27635 12:25
pugs_svnbot r18048 | azawawi++ | [runpugs] minified version of runpugs.js
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18048
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18048 - Pugs - Trac
ruoso fglock, ^
fglock looking
looks good :) 12:27
pugs_svnbot r18049 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] fixed defpackage.lisp, updated export list.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18049
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18049 - Pugs - Trac
ruoso recompiling kp6-kp6 with that
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pugs_svnbot r18050 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] fixed Package.lisp 12:29
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18050
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18050 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r18051 | Aankhen++ | * [kp6-lisp] kp6-Package should inherit from kp6-Hash (temporary!). 12:32
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18051
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18051 - Pugs - Trac
ruoso fglock, echo -n 'say "Hello!"' | perl -Ilib-kp6-kp6-p5 kp6-kp6.pl | perltidy 12:44
pugs_svnbot r18052 | ruoso++ | [kp6] implemented arguments to new. WOOOOHOOOO... kp6 now emits *some* ast.. still wrong.. but emits...
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18052
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18052 - Pugs - Trac
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pugs_svnbot r18053 | Aankhen++ | [kp6-lisp] 13:06
r18053 | Aankhen++ | * added foreign.lisp containing CL->PERL and PERL->CL methods.
r18053 | Aankhen++ | * removed the unused code in GLOBAL.lisp and changed the "say" function to use CL->PERL.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18053
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18053 - Pugs - Trac
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pugs_svnbot r18054 | fglock++ | [kp6] added Runtime::Perl6::Scope.pm 14:53
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18054
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18054 - Pugs - Trac
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rhr ferreira: $title.elems should be $title.chars. also, sub prefix:<~> should probably be multi method *prefix:<~> 14:58
lambdabot rhr: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
rhr @messages 14:59
lambdabot ferreira said 3d 1h 35m 23s ago: Thanks. Fixed.
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pugs_svnbot r18055 | fglock++ | [kp6] added a test for Scope.pm 15:10
r18056 | ruoso++ | recompile
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18056
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18056 - Pugs - Trac
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ferreira rhr: I fixed the *prefix:<~> signature and used .chars as it should be. thanks 15:35
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pugs_svnbot r18057 | fglock++ | [kp6] *exists() 15:55
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18057
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18057 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r18058 | ruoso++ | [kp6] uses NamedArgument in Match at p5 token. Grab string from $_ if not defined 15:58
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18058
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18058 - Pugs - Trac
TimToady ferreira: actually, multi method *prefix:<~> is wrong several ways. 16:09
there's no point in putting "multi" on a method with no arguments
pugs_svnbot r18059 | fglock++ | [kp6] lazy hash lookup
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18059
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18059 - Pugs - Trac
TimToady nor is there any reason to put the *, since we're looking for a deep coercion on the object, and not using a global operator 16:10
and prefix:<~> by itself isn't going to specify the deep coercion anyway 16:11
ferreira well, it seems I do not understand operators like ~, +, and ? 16:12
How do I specify an object Marker to stringify as its attribute $.text ?
TimToady currently it's specced in S13 with "is deep" but I'm not terribly happy with that 16:13
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moritz_ TimToady: what about an additional coercion interface via roles? 16:14
so a ~ first looks for a method prefix:<~>, and if it doesn't find one, a role "stringification" or whatever you will call it 16:15
ferreira multi sub *prefix<~> ( Marker $m ) is deep { $m.text } ??
TimToady prefix:<~> is the name of a syntax, not the name of a deep operation
PerlJam ferreira: btw, you suck. :-) When I applied for a microgrant to write about perl 6 regex, they said they were full up on documentation grants. So it looks like you got the last one. 16:16
though, it's my own fault for not applying sooner.
TimToady ferreira: that's almost according to current spec, but you don't need the * on a multi
but I still don't really like "is deep" when we should be using type names 16:17
we can already specify from the receiving type a function like Str() 16:18
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TimToady so it seems to me that the sending class should have a way to override that 16:18
method Str or method :to(Str) or some such
pugs_svnbot r18060 | fglock++ | [kp6] fixed exists() 16:19
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18060
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18060 - Pugs - Trac
TimToady also the parens in (1) xx $x are unnecessary
PerlJam perl5 habits die hard :)
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TimToady and certainly we want $x.Str to work, so for now maybe just make it "method Str" 16:20
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TimToady maybe "method Str is export" 16:21
if you want to get the Str() form as well
[particle] are submethods still around? 16:22
TimToady yes
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pugs_svnbot r18061 | fglock++ | [kp6]?\194?\160t/kp6/internals/01-scope.t pass 16:23
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18061
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18061 - Pugs - Trac
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pugs_svnbot r18062 | ruoso++ | [kp6] p5 tokens are now part of the ast, all grammars test pass. 16:29
r18063 | ruoso++ | [kp6] fixing test plan...
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18063
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18063 - Pugs - Trac
ruoso wheeeeeeeee... only three tests failing 16:30
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pugs_svnbot r18064 | ruoso++ | [kp6] GLOBAL::exit 16:35
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18064
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18064 - Pugs - Trac
fglock ruoso: coffee? 16:37
ruoso yep ;)
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hoelzro is svn down? I can't svn update 17:03
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ferreira hey, I lost the connection with feather: "Host does not exist" 17:05
TimToady: I will replace the scary "multi method ..." thing with "method Str { $.text }" which looks nicer. 17:07
So there is no point in saying "multi method no_arg { ... }" I thought it be a kind of multi declaration that took precedence over "multi sub one_arg( ThisClass obj )" 17:09
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ferreira PerlJam: sorry to have let you down. It looks like they did some simple mathematics on the 10 microgrants. 17:15
Having used two for porting stuff (Steve Peters and Steve Pritchard), one for hardware (Juerd), one for travel (fglock, for evangelizing purposes), one for tools/application (Phil Crow), they closed the ones for documentation after the first. 17:16
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ferreira Probably the remaining are preferred for coding and testing, and other topics that have not been contemplated. 17:17
[particle] looks like perljam isn't around 17:22
but maybe he could get a microgrant for interpretive dance
ferreira yep, he could try it. particle: do you know why feather is gone and svn.pugscode.org as well? 17:23
[particle] no idea 17:24
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moritz_ even dns for feather.perl6.nl is b0rked 17:25
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fglock moritz_: i've been reading irc.pugscode.org while committing, but after a few hours it gets too big for my phone - i wonder if it would be possible to have a paginate option 17:30
commuting
moritz_ fglock: would a plain text only version help as well? 17:32
fglock sure
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fglock and it should be easier to implement 17:32
ahmadz hi
is feather down? 17:33
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ahmadz @seen moritz 17:34
lambdabot moritz has changed nick to moritz_.
moritz_ is in #perl6. I last heard moritz_ speak 2m 40s ago.
hoelzro moritz is on vacation 17:35
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moritz_ not yet, but I will be from tomorow, 20H 17:36
hoelzro oh hi
moritz_ hi ;)
ahmadz moritz: hi ;-)
moritz_ I thought my notebook was b0rked, but occasionally it still works... that's why I thought I couldn't IRC to you guys before vacation ;) 17:37
ahmadz moritz: i used the camel moose pic as a console background on runpugs. it looked cool but then feather went down and so no commit :-( 17:38
moritz_ ahmadz: ;)
ahmadz moritz: and a new click-click sound for the runpugs keyboard is coming also ;-) 17:40
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moritz_ ahmadz: please don't... I always hate sound on websites ;) 17:42
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ahmadz moritz: consider it noted ;-) 17:44
moritz_ ;) 17:45
ahmadz moritz: i guess having a command !kp6 or kp6: is not useful on runpugs as it compiles far less than pugs atm 17:46
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ahmadz thinks about !tutorial and !load example/*.pl in runpugs 17:48
moritz_ ahmadz: probably, yes 17:49
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moritz_ fglock: moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/text.pl 18:00
fglock: supports the same parameters as the normal 'out.pl'
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fglock i'm working with ruoso on a high level implementation of scopes for bootstrapping 18:01
moritz_: thanks!!!
moritz_ fglock: you're welcome... more elaborate version to follow after my vacations ;) 18:03
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moritz_ fglock: now the HTML versions have a "Plain Text" link 18:05
fglock moritz_: the phone wants to download it instead of displaying - but i think it's a problem on my side 18:06
moritz_ fglock: it's Content-Type: text/html
fglock: perhaps you can configure it... 18:07
fglock yes, looking
18:07 dalek joined 18:09 hoelzro left
fglock hmm - it just doesn't support "text" 18:12
ahmadz fglock: what kinda of phone? 18:13
fglock ahmadz: nokia 6070
18:14 chris2 left
ahmadz feather is back ;-) 18:14
fglock yay - committing... 18:15
ahmadz 11% packet loss when you ping it for a while
18:17 snearch left
moritz_ pugs_svnbot is missing ( hilight diakopter here...) 18:18
18:18 Aankhen`` left
ahmadz fglock: most phones dont support text/plain, your need wml or xhtml (www.forum.nokia.com/devices/6070) 18:18
lambdabot Title: Device Details -- Nokia 6070
18:18 Aankh|Clone is now known as Aankhen``, justatheory joined
ahmadz s/your/you/ 18:19
fglock how about a simple-html version like, just replace \n with <br/>
ahmadz fglock: xhtml or wml will do the trick
fglock: however on wml, you need to escape things a lot 18:20
Aankhen`` Why not just HTML? 18:21
ahmadz moritz: seems to me than feather's dns was only down
if it is well formed, then most phones should have no problem reading it. 18:23
18:23 ruoso left
Aankhen`` Indeed. 18:23
The link you gave mentions HTML.
They might leave out HTML in order to avoid the processing burden of error correction, but IIRC most phones do support it anyway.
fglock it does read html, but gives out of memory with big pages
Aankhen`` And not with XHTML? 18:24
ahmadz 4MB memory or less
fglock: did u try google's mobilizer: www.google.com/gwt/n 18:25
lambdabot Title: Enter a URL
fglock ahmadz: will try 18:26
18:26 justatheory left 18:27 amnesiac_ joined
ahmadz fglock: we could actually provide a link to on the irc log for simplicity and it should transcode it easily. 18:27
fglock ahmadz: sure - it looks great
www.google.com/gwt/n?u=http%3A%2F%2...wt_noimg=1
lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2007-09-21, tinyurl.com/2g3p79 18:28
moritz_ it's not very readable though
I can create a more readable, tiny version when I get back
fglock moritz_: the google version is good enough 18:29
moritz_ fglock: ok
ahmadz moritz: most phones = small screen+memory, so more formatting and the browser breaks.
moritz, fglock: i guess a version without the "left/joined" events would make sense and let google mobilizer do the rest. 18:32
fglock cool - it works now 18:33
18:34 amnesiac_ is now known as recover 18:35 recover is now known as recovery, amnesiac left
moritz_ fglock: please try moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/text.pl?c...2007-09-21 again - it now emits a html header 18:35
and it omits all join/leave messages 18:36
18:36 recovery is now known as amnesiac
ahmadz moritz_++ 18:36
moritz_ from a technical point of view it's horrible ;)
and it's not safe yet 18:37
fglock looking (where is lambdabot with the tinyurl?)
moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/text.pl?c...2007-09-21
18:37 PerlJam joined
moritz_ or just moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/text.pl for today 18:38
18:40 vel left
fglock moritz_: is it marked as html? the phone wants to save it 18:40
moritz_ fglock: yes, it's send as text/html 18:41
18:41 sunnavy left
moritz_ but it's in quirks mode (no doctype) 18:42
fglock: perhaps a caching issue? 18:44
fglock maybe - cleaning
nope 18:48
4 minutes to clean the cache and retry :P 18:49
moritz_ omg
fglock: then you'll have to use google for the moment
fglock moritz_: np, that's good enough
moritz_ fglock: my fault, I'm too dump... 18:50
fglock: I didn't update the server...
18:51 sunnavy joined
moritz_ fglock: try moritz.faui2k3.org/irclog/text.pl again please - last time now ;) 18:52
lambdabot Title: IRC Logs
fglock k
18:53 jhorwitz left 18:54 IllvilJa joined
fglock moritz_: out of memory 18:55
moritz_ fglock: ok, I give up 18:56
ahmadz phone development can be very difficult to test; i do this everyday ;-)
18:57 barney left
moritz_ decommute & 18:57
ahmadz ponders about a wml version of runpugs ;-) 18:58
check out this feather.perl6.nl:8096/runpugs/ ;-)
lambdabot Title: Run Perl 6 Now -- in your browser!
fglock ahmadz: that would be great
18:59 jisom joined
fglock svnbot is down 19:11
home & 19:13
19:27 buubot left, buubot joined 19:31 hoelzro joined 19:34 fglock left
hoelzro hooray! I can svn update again! 19:35
19:43 ferreira left 19:45 justatheory joined 19:50 Blwood joined 19:58 hoelzro left 20:07 jisom left 20:09 Khisanth is now known as tchrist, tchrist is now known as Khisanth
Aankhen`` avar: Make sure to `svn up`. :-) 20:38
avar Aankhen``: what stuff works now? 20:40
say() still fails.. 20:41
Aankhen`` I dunno about the emitter, I've been working on the Lisp side.
Load up Runtime.lisp, switch to the KP6-CL package, and try this:L 20:42
s/L$//
(kp6-apply-function "Code_substr" (mapcar #'cl->perl (list "abcdef" 2 2))) 20:43
(kp6-apply-function "Code_say" (mapcar #'cl->perl (list "ab" #\c #\d "ef")))
avar yeah i see
sweet
20:43 rlb3_work left
Aankhen`` ^_^ 20:43
avar Are you using slime?
Aankhen`` But of course. 20:44
avar I've had some issues with loading the lisp files, seems I'm in the wrong dir..
Aankhen`` Yeah, Runtime.lisp uses absolute paths.
You'll probably need to start emacs from the v6-KindaPerl6/ dir, then (load "lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Lisp/Runtime.lisp"). 20:45
I should really just create an ASDF system for it.
avar M-x cd v6-KindaPerl6 M-x slime C-x C-f lib/.../Runtime.lisp C-c C-k worked 20:48
Aankhen`` Ugl-eh.
But it's better than what I was using, I suppose.
avar I like how package.lisp uses the Hash.lisp stuff
Aankhen`` packages.lisp, you mean 20:49
?
avar yeah
Aankhen`` I'm all about layers. <G>
avar what lisp are you using? 20:50
20:50 rlb3_work joined
Aankhen`` SBCL. 20:50
BRB.
avar clisp here, my box crashes on sbcl;/
Aankhen`` What OS? 20:53
avar ew tabs for indenting
it's running on xen, known bug
Aankhen`` Oh, sucks. 20:54
Tabs for indenting? Yuck!
(So says the person who used them exclusively for nine years.)
avar you put some in global.lisp :)
Aankhen`` Hmm, how? 20:55
avar (define-kp6-function ("say" :returns 'true) (&rest strs)
(format t "~{~A~}~%" (mapcar #'kp6-value strs)))
Aankhen`` I only edited it in emacs, which is set to use spaces rather than Tabs.
Where's the Tab?
avar you fuuckeeed uuup?:)
Aankhen`` I see two spaces before the (format.
avar :value #'(lambda ,params 20:56
,@body
,@(when (not (null returns))
there
no "say" is all right
Aankhen`` Still only seeing spaces.
A lot of them, but spaces nonetheless.
avar try C-x h M-x untabify on the file and diff it 20:57
Aankhen`` I already shut down my VM, unfortunately. 20:58
21:00 TJCRI left
avar how do you call the "say" function? 21:01
Aankhen`` (kp6-apply-function "Code_say" (mapcar #'cl->list (list "foo" "bar" "baz")))
General template, for now, is: (kp6-apply-function "Code_foo" (mapcar #'cl->list (list ...args...))) 21:02
I'll add a wrapper function tomorrow. 21:03
I'm a little confused. Is there an `apply` and a `call` in Perl 6? 21:05
avar that's a kp6 thing
Aankhen`` Not in Perl 6 proper, then?
avar KP6-CL> (kp6-apply-function "Code_say" (mapcar #'cl->perl (list "a" "b" "c"))) 21:06
abc
#<KP6-BIT #x000333E6E488>
It's just something kp6 uses for dispatch I think
Aankhen`` I wrote the KP6-APPLY-FUNCTION, I was just wondering about whether I was stomping a Perl 6 builtin. :-) 21:07
avar Aankhen``: If you can tell me how that would work where "a" "b" and "c" are (make-instance 'kp6-Str :value "a") I can get it working..
Aankhen`` Or rather, confusing names with a builtin.
The idea is that the MAPCAR runs CL->PERL on each of them, which basically turns them into instances of kp6-Str.
So if you already have instances of kp6-Str, just pass a list of them instead.
avar hrm 21:08
yeah, I see
Aankhen`` KP6-APPLY-FUNCTION takes the function name and a list of arguments, which need to be Perl 6 objects.
It's just one step above the bare minimum, which is to look up the function yourself. 21:09
Oh, it can also take an optional :PACKAGE argument to indicate which package you want to search for the function in.
avar I'll add a generic function that takes kp6-str and just passes it through
Aankhen`` Not sure I understand.
Oh, a method for CL->PERL specialized on kp6-Str? 21:10
avar KP6-CL> (mapcar #'cl->perl (list "foo" (kp6-value (make-instance 'kp6-Str :value "bar"))))
(#<KP6-STR #x000333E64398> #<KP6-STR #x000333E643B8>)
thi works
KP6-CL> (mapcar #'cl->perl (list "foo" (make-instance 'kp6-Str :value "bar")))
this doesn't 21:11
Aankhen`` You could do that, but you'd be better off doing this: (defmethod cl->perl ((object kp6-Object)) object)
avar so there needs to be a cl->perl version that passes it through
yeah, that's what I was doing:)
Aankhen`` Yes, you're right.
I'm not sure CL->PERL is the right place to do that though.
Oh well, it'll do for now.
avar your stuff doesn't work with kp6-Object, works with kp6-Str 21:12
maybe it needs a type-of call instead?
Aankhen`` Wha? 21:13
How so?
avar (defmethod cl->perl ((object kp6-Str) &key)
object)
Aankhen`` That works but not kp6-Object?
avar this works, the same thing with kp6-Object doesn't work
Aankhen`` Strange.
amnesiac omg it's avar...
Aankhen`` I'll look into it tomorrow. 21:14
21:14 hoelzro joined
Aankhen`` avar: What exactly happens if you substitute kp6-Object for kp6-Str? 21:16
avar no generic function is found 21:17
Aankhen`` I see.
Something wrong with the inheritance hierarchy, maybe.
avar It just needs something equivalent to ->isa("kp6-Object") as opposed to ref $obj eq 'kp6-Str'
yeah
Aankhen`` Dangit, I hate having to boot up a VM to do any programming.
It's just another barrier!
avar urgh, subtypep is odd 21:20
Tene Aankhen``: why do you need a VM for programming?
Aankhen`` SUBTYPEP is for checking whether one class is a subclass of another. 21:21
Tene: My primary OS is Windows.
I've done the whole Win32 programming bit for many, many years, and I finally got tired of it.
Tene Oh.
hoelzro ugh, Win32 programming...
Aankhen`` Er, s/Win32 programming/programming on Windows/.
I didn't mean I've been writing Windows apps.
hoelzro be thankful 21:22
Aankhen`` is.
Tene So... why are you running on Windows?
Aankhen`` Because for everything except development, it works. :-)
And I'm not particularly fond of Linux.
avar you know slime supports connecting to a remote image
Tene Okay.
Aankhen`` It's better than Windows in many ways, but it's still just the lesser of two evils.
And with that I'll shut up on the subject.
hoelzro to each his own
Aankhen`` avar: Yessir. 21:23
avar what do you use windows for? 21:24
might be less of a pita to run it in vmware:)
Aankhen`` Everything except development. Surfing the 'Net, playing games, wasting time on IRCā€¦
Oh, and watching lots of animated series & movies. 21:25
And listening to music.
Until foobar2000 is released for Linux, I'm sticking with Windows.
hoelzro what's foobar2000?
Aankhen`` Audio player.
hoelzro never heard of it 21:26
interesting
avar use emacs for playing music, dewd:)
the interface is similar to foobar
hoelzro emacs?!
blasphemy!
I'm a vimmer myself 21:27
=P
avar Aankhen``: ATTACK
Aankhen`` EEK 21:28
21:28 thoughtpolice left
Tene If you don't use linux, why do you care about developing software for it? 21:29
avar Aankhen``: Why do you hate america?
Aankhen`` I don't hate America, and I don't hate Linux. :-) 21:30
Tene I didn't say hate, just "don't use"
I'm really just curious. 21:31
Aankhen`` Tene: As I said, Linux is the lesser of two evilsā€¦ more importantly, though, I develop software because I love programming.
Tene Ahh.
Okay. :)
avar Aankhen``: Your CL works, but the emitter really likes stuff in a certain order
Aankhen`` avar: How so?
avar and I (kp6-apply-function "Code_say" (mapcar #'cl->perl (list (make-instance 'kp6-Str :value "a") 21:32
(make-instance 'kp6-Str :value "b")
this works now
but..
(make-instance 'kp6-Str :value "c"))))
sial.org/pbot/27644
lambdabot Title: Paste #27644 from Someone at 208.78.101.240
avar this is what the emitter spits out
Aankhen`` You're going to make me start up the VM again, at 3:00 AM, aren't you? :-\
avar sial.org/pbot/27645 # with these patches 21:33
lambdabot Title: Paste #27645 from Someone at 208.78.101.240
avar nah, this looks more like a task for fglock
Aankhen`` Why did you remove the &allow-other-keys on CL->PERL?
Kattana also cant move to linux until foobar2000 is ported
Aankhen`` And PERL->CL.
avar oh that was me screwing around earlier, nevermind that 21:34
Aankhen`` avar: Oh, I didn't realize what you were trying to use SUBTYPEP for. What you want is TYPEP. (typep object 'kp6-Object)
avar the relevant stuff is EmitLisp.pm
Aankhen`` The invocant EmitLisp.pm spits out is way harsh.
I'm not sure what it's doing, exactly. 21:35
hoelzro none of us are.
=P
Aankhen`` giggles.
avar it's spitting out AST nodes
Aankhen`` avar: Yes, I mean, I'm not sure why it has so many colons, for one. 21:36
avar Either the AST needs to be mutated or the lisp stuff needs to work in that order too
I added that to see what was doing what
Aankhen`` Hrm, hrm.
This stuff is whack, man! 21:37
</dude>
avar: What is the invocant it's printing? Can it be separated into a package and a name? 21:38
avar fails to parse that 21:39
Aankhen`` (kp6-apply-function (kp6-lookup obj:'(kp6-lookup obj:'kp6-Hash_KP6 index:(make-instance 'kp6-Str :value "GLOBAL") index:(make-instance 'kp6-Str :value "Code_say") ; AIUI, that huge second argument is the function being called
Can it be separated into just the package and the name? 21:40
avar ugh, I don't know
hrm 21:41
Aankhen`` I'm sorry, I'm very ignorant of KP6's architecture; perhaps I should have held back before jumping into the CL side. :-\
avar nah it's fiine 21:42
avar tries something
Aankhen`` Okay. 21:43
The KP6-OBJECT thing seems okay here. 21:46
21:46 blindfish left
Aankhen`` Actually, I think I'd left the &key off the one I wrote in-channel. 21:46
I've checked in the working version.
avar yes, you did:) 21:48
Aankhen`` Hold on, hold on.
How on Earth did KP6-VALUE stop inheriting from KP6-OBJECT? O_O
Fixed. 21:49
avar ah, was that the problem?
Aankhen`` As I said, KP6-VALUE wasn't inheriting from KP6-OBJECT for some reason.
avar sh-3.1$ echo 'say "a", "b", "c"' | perl kp6-mp6-perl5.pl --lisp | clisp | grep ^Break.*abc 21:51
Break 1 [2]> abc
awesomeness
Aankhen`` ?
What does the Break indicate?
I only used CLISP very briefly, when I was very new to CL.
avar nothing, it's just spewing out tons of shit 21:52
Aankhen`` Ah.
21:52 Blwood left
avar #my $op := $.code.emit_lisp; 21:53
my $op := '"Code_say"';
naughty
hoelzro which spec contains the information on the relationships between frontend,backend,emitter/etc? 21:54
avar of kp6?
hoelzro of Perl 6 in general
I want to understand the roles that Pugs, kp6, etc all play
avar they each work in their own way
and it's all light on docs;/ 21:55
hoelzro kp6 is just a Perl 6 -> CL translator?
Aankhen`` avar: LMAO. 21:56
hoelzro I think I'm confused
avar kp6 emits perl5, html, cl and probably something else
Aankhen`` hoelzro: No, Common Lisp is just one language for which KP6 has an emitter.
hoelzro I see
Aankhen`` hoelzro: There's a part of KP6 that parses Perl 6, and a separate part that emits that code in a different language.
hoelzro ah 21:57
understood
avar ls lib/KindaPerl6/Visitor/Emit*
hoelzro are there plans for Perl 6 -> PIL with kp6? 21:58
avar $ echo 'say "a", "b", "c"' | perl kp6-mp6-perl5.pl --lisp | head -n3
global say
(in-package #:cl-user)
(load (compile-file "lib/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Lisp/Runtime.lisp"))
urgh, where the hell does that "global say" come from
Aankhen`` What's with the "global say" at the beginning?
Heh.
avar hoelzro: If someone does it, suure:) 21:59
21:59 hakobe_ is now known as hkb_zz
hoelzro is PIL a big deal, or some idea we're just throwing around? 21:59
avar The current plan for it is to bootstrap it with the STD parser, me and Aankhen`` are just goofing around
what's PIL?:)
Aankhen`` Pugs Intermediate Language? 22:00
hoelzro I think it's Parrot Intermediate Language, or more likely Perl Intermediate Language
Aankhen`` Parrot Intermediate Language?
One of the two, I think.
avar Oh that thing
pugs or parrot?
hoelzro I think it's parrot
TimToady that's PIR, not PIL 22:01
Aankhen`` checks the IRC logs to see if they're smarter.
Pugs, yay.
The logs were smarter than me after all. :-D
hoelzro ah
avar search.cpan.org/~particle/parrot-0....ry.pod#PIL
lambdabot Title: docs/glossary.pod - Parrot Glossary - search.cpan.org, tinyurl.com/yw6bue
avar If someone steps up sure, but pugs doesn't seem like an especially good /runtime/ at the moment 22:02
hoelzro I'm trying to help with Pugs, but I need guidance
and the trac at dev.pugscode isn't very helpful =/ 22:03
avar well "Pugs" is a lot of things, are you mainly interested in the pugs haskell compiler ?
i.e. the pugs(1) binary
TimToady I'm using pugs to breadboard STD currently, but that's because pugs's set of things it does right is closer to what STD needs than the set of things that everyone else's platform does right.
hoelzro the haskell compiler
avar TimToady: Are you runnning the desugared version? 22:04
TimToady I've run the metholated version of STD as far as parsing 42+1 via the operator precedence parser. mostly I'm fiddling with small examples to figure out how to optimize DFAable longest tokens out to the current language 22:05
so when you call "expect_term" from a particular language, it knows right there what all the possible tokens are 22:06
basically, I'm working on self-lexing grammars
which interacts oddly with extensible grammars
because when two different languages call expect_term, they have two different sets of longest tokens 22:07
so that info has to be stored in the right place
avar ah, so implementations aren't holding you back at the moment
TimToady well, I've spent a fair share of my time working around pugs bugs... 22:08
for instance, I can't really create a Match object from Perl 6 22:09
a lot of the bugs come back to the incomplete object system 22:10
but some of them are just Parsec being wonky
22:11 devogon left
TimToady a lot of what I want to do is things like mixins of roles into method objects, but that doesn't work either. 22:13
avar ;/
everything sucks:)
apperently clisp's idea of --quiet or --silent is "please spew out the same irrelivant 50 lines of debug info" 22:14
Aankhen`` LMAO.
22:15 wolverian joined
TimToady I think a good error message would be "foobar at baz line 42; see [127.0.0.1]/aos24jakj9 for more" 22:16
where that contains the traceback and long explanations
and maybe the cockpit recorder
szbalint where is the terminal colour code for orange when you need it 22:17
:)
TimToady you do that with the TURN_TERMINAL_ORANGE_ON_ERROR env var
avar <Starship Troopers Announcer>Error on line 42, would you like to know more? 22:18
TimToady and the http page could have a link that says "Send me in as a bug report" 22:19
22:25 Aankhen`` left
avar kp6: class Fleh {} Fleh.new 22:28
exp_evalbot r18087: OUTPUT[syntax error at position 0, line 1 column 0:ā¤( ( do { class Fleh {} Fleh.new } ).perl ).saā¤^ HEREā¤]
TimToady that should be a syntax error according to spec 22:29
requires ; after the {} 22:30
but that's probably not what it's complaining about there...
biab & 22:31
avar avar@oe:/tmp/v6/v6-KindaPerl6$ time ./kp6-hellow |grep abc 22:41
abc
real 0m0.086s
the first Perl 6 to machine code compiler via CL and sbcl :)
TimToady what is CL's attitude toward's Unicode? 22:56
avar It's implementation defined, most do native unicode but if you want it portable across implementations you'll need your own (or some pre-written) library 22:57
(length "Ʀvar")
4
that's clisp, same with sbcl, might not be the case with some others.. 22:58
23:00 weinig joined
avar TimToady: So about as well as C:) 23:03
w 5
23:05 polettix joined
avar How do I see (in kp6) what class something belongs to? 23:06
my $op := $.code.emit_lisp;
I want to find out what class that's being dispatched to
not $.code.WHAT
(ref $foo).to(Perl6) :)
TimToady .WHAT gives you the protoobject, while .HOW gives you the metaclass object 23:10
(in theory)
there is no such thing as a class object in Perl 6 :) 23:11
23:12 lambdabot left 23:13 dduncan joined
avar I just want to see what class it belongs to 23:14
TimToady define "belongs" 23:16
23:16 iblechbot left, BinGOs_ joined
TimToady there is no object that "owns" your object... 23:17
amnesiac avar, introspection? 23:18
TimToady introspection would be in the bailywick of the .HOW metaclass object 23:21
amnesiac yes, about the behaviors of the object 23:22
TimToady, but what abou attributes?
23:22 cmarcelo left
amnesiac TimToady, I guess avar wants to know the class it belongs to, not as a relationship, just about with which class was it created 23:22
avar yeah, what C<class {}> the method will be dispatched to 23:24
TimToady that would be controlled by the metaobject instance, which could support either class-based or prototype-based method dispatch 23:25
but each class {} would typically get its own instance 23:26
amnesiac ponders
TimToady the standard MO is class based, but there's no guarantee. a MOP could easily set up a responder interface without classes at all, as in prototype based languages. if there's a concept of class, your .HOW should be able to tell you 23:30
but for the standard MO, it'll probably just tell you the protoobject, whose main function is to carry the .HOW without being a real object.
so when you say "class Foo {}" you're setting up a Foo protoobject that isn't a real object 23:31
nonetheless Foo.HOW returns the metaclass instance for it.
otherwise you'd have to say Foo.new.HOW to get at it. 23:32
Foo is just a typed undef in Perl 6 23:33
Foo.HOW is the closest thing to a "class"
the "class" keyword is a good indication that you're using the standard MO though 23:34
a different MOP would likely use a different keyword
much like roles and subsets are different ways to view types
(though roles are a part of the standard MOP) 23:35
wolverian random_mop_class Foo { } # macro 23:37
23:38 BinGOs left
TimToady currently package_declarator:<random_mop_class> in STD 23:39
wolverian ach, my ideas are pre-empted 23:41
TimToady we're serious about extensibility in Perl 6, and have been so for 'bout seven years now... 23:42
so there's been a lot of pre in which to empt...
23:46 BinGOs joined 23:47 BinGOs_ left
Eidolos possible microgrant idea: implement a few popular modules in idiomatic p6 23:54

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