pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by diakopter on 11 July 2007.
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meppl good night 00:18
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diotalevi What is the meaning of when( $foo || $bar )? Is it ($_ ~~ ( $foo || $bar )) or is it (($_ ~~ $foo) || ($_ ~~ $bar))? 05:29
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diotalevi I'm asking this in connection with Perl 5's port of that. 05:30
The S06 doesn't seem to clarify. 05:32
it was 6, right, ysth1?
also, the synopsis is not clear about how to turn off smartmatching. 05:36
Tene "turn off smartmatching"? 05:37
diotalevi yes, evaluate the conditional in a when() expression as an ordinary boolean instead of ( $_ ~~ ... )
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ysth1 S04 Switch statements 05:47
for instance, when ($_ > 4) ; there, the when-expression isn't to be smartmatched 05:48
did the original p5 patch specify his source for that kind of stuff, I wonder? 05:49
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ysth1 no, it doesn't; just says "follow the Perl 6 spec as closely as seemed reasonable" 05:53
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ysth1 aha; www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5....07366.html 06:04
lambdabot Title: Re: switch - nntp.perl.org, tinyurl.com/yvhobt
ysth1 in p6, the condition being in { } de-smarts it
rats 06:05
Josh, you still listening? 06:08
err, diotalevi aka jjore aka josh aka jbenjore 06:09
diotalevi yep
that thing from damian is nice but what's the reference for that? 06:10
ysth1 the mouth of the damian
{ } is p5's do { } I think
(me is highly ignorant)
but that doesn't address what p6 does with ||/&& in a when condition 06:11
for some reason I was thinking it did
diotalevi aaah!
{} is just a closure.
ysth1 which is not a smartmatch operand
I guess 06:12
diotalevi sure it is.
ysth1 then why does when { $_ > 4 } work?
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diotalevi it's just $_ ~~ sub { $_ > 4 } which itself $_ > 4 06:13
so this also means perl 5 could possibly use sub{} as the sanity operator. 06:14
!!0|| is pretty though. 06:15
ysth1 oh 06:16
diotalevi oh neat. Thomas Edison on wax roll or similar. 06:17
ysth1 I've heard that before 06:18
diotalevi I might have.
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ysth1 I think $_ ~~ sub { $_ > 4 } is sub { $_ > 4 }->($_) *unless* $_ is a coderef; then it's $_ == sub { $_ > 4 } ? 06:19
eddies in the continuum 06:20
diotalevi yes, I guess.
however since you wrote a fresh reference $_ != sub { ... } is always true when $_ is a code ref. 06:21
ysth1 yup
less than useful
or maybe not. given( sub{} ) { when (sub {$_ > 4}) {} when (sub {$_ <= 4}) {} default { say "surprise!" } } 06:23
It even works! 06:24
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ysth1 wanders off to the kitchen for a while; happy coding 06:25
diotalevi k, thanks for the thoughts.
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pugs_svnbot r18422 | fglock++ | [mp6] added util/bootstrap-perl5.sh 11:05
r18423 | fglock++ | [mp6] fixed last commit
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18423
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18423 - Pugs - Trac
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pugs_svnbot r18424 | fglock++ | [mp6] updated util/bootstrap-perl5.sh 11:51
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18424
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18424 - Pugs - Trac
riffraff hi 11:52
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moritz_ good localtime() all ;) 11:54
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lichtkind haha hi moritz 11:57
moritz_ moin lichtkind ;) 11:59
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araujo wonders what it is the state of perl6 ~ pugs 13:59
masak araujo: it's hard to give a one-sentence summary
moritz_ araujo: not much progress lately
masak but there is a lot of activity around kp6 now 14:00
pugs is pretty much dormant, perhaps awaiting audreyt++ or some other brave soul
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moritz_ and TimToady's been hacking on STD.pm and metholate lately 14:02
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avar yeah pugs is pretty much abandonware 14:03
masak araujo: btw, are you aware that your nick means "container for macaws" in esperanto?
moritz_ kp6: (gather { while (1) { take 2; } } )[2]
exp_evalbot r18424: OUTPUT[2ā¤]
moritz_ lazy_gather_take++
masak avar: I peer into pugs at times to see if my haskell-fu has increased lately in a way that makes me able to hack on it. sadly, only parts of pugs are so far accessible to me 14:04
moritz_: yes, lazy gather is way cool 14:05
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araujo masak, what is that? 14:19
moritz_, yeah, i have seen the project a bit stopped (from the surface)
masak araujo: a macaw is a kind of parrot 14:20
just so happens that you can construct a composite word out of "arao" (macaw) and "ujo" (container) in esperanto. the middle "o" then disappears.
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masak araujo: where are you from? (if you don't mind me asking) 14:21
araujo masak, ooh... i see
guacamayos
haha interesting
masak, i am from .ve
masak, haha, interesting, that's my surname 14:22
masak araujo: cool
araujo you learn new stuff everyday :-)
masak :)
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masak the proportion of esperanto speakers here on #perl6 is quite high 14:24
I know Juerd++ speaks it too
araujo well, it seems like a cool language ;-)
masak yes
very perl6-ish
or perl-ish in general, actually 14:25
araujo wonders if this is a omen to code on parrot/pugs
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masak araujo: please do 14:25
there's always things to do in the pugs test suite, for example 14:26
moritz_: do you know how much diff there is between spec and test suite right now?
araujo masak, always found it a very interesting project .... but my TODO is usually so busy, i think i will make some space for this, i really find the perl6 project interesting
masak araujo: same here. I usually have a little time for it in the weekends 14:27
ruoso araujo looks like a brazillian or portuguese surname, isn't it?
lambdabot ruoso: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
araujo ruoso, yeah
i think it does come from .pt
ruoso but are you from brasil? 14:28
araujo no, i am from .ve
ruoso ah... ok...
masak araujo: then you speak spanish, of course?
araujo kind of close :-)
masak, si
masak araujo: okazas ke mi povas paroli sen problemo kun hispanparolantoj 14:29
araujo: chu vi komprenas kion mi skribas nun?
:)
araujo hah
masak was it comprehensible? 14:30
araujo i kind of understand last sentence
that's esperanto right?
masak yes
the first one was: "it happens that I can speak without problem with spanish-speakers"
araujo yeah, i have heard it has similarities with spanish
masak ...and german, and russian...
araujo ah nice :-) 14:31
masak ...greek, english...
oh, well. </advertisement>
araujo haha
masak, how old is this language?
masak 120 years this year
araujo hopes we are not that off-topic here :-) 14:32
masak I love how we constructively go off-topic in #perl6
araujo hah
masak it's always about geeky things
I won't defend it, though. if anyone wants to really talk perl6 here, I'm all for it
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araujo well, i have noticed it has been quiet around here for a while 14:35
masak araujo: quieter, yes
araujo probably should start using his commit bits
masak yes. do. :)
araujo :-) 14:36
masak araujo: is there any way I can help?
I'd gladly put myself under your command as some kind of assistant/secondary committer 14:37
as long as you elect a worthy project
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araujo masak, oh, well, i first need to get myself up-to-date 14:39
then i can bother you i suppose :-)
masak araujo: sure
usually, I just start poking pugs around, and run a test smoke on it 14:40
something is bound to show up :)
araujo good
masak that's how I found t/builtins/arrays/init-in-exported-sub.t, for example 14:41
very strange flaw
araujo: anyway, be sure to bother me once you're updated 14:43
araujo haha ok masak
masak I'm here mostly on .se-daytime
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pugs_svnbot r18425 | fglock++ | [mp6] reverted r18419 - .new() broke the bootstrap 15:17
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18425
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18425 - Pugs - Trac
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moritz_ fglock: do you know why it broke the bootstrap? 15:21
fglock moritz_: i'm checking 15:27
lambdabot fglock: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
diotalevi evalbot? 15:28
moritz_ I don't know where that went, but in the mean time we have exp_evalbot 15:29
pugs: say "hi diotalevi"
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[hi diotaleviā¤]
diotalevi thanks
moritz_ it needs some minor fixes, but all in all it works
and it has the 'kp6:' command as well ;) 15:30
diotalevi it doesn't seem to respond to commands I send just to it, not the channel 15:31
moritz_ diotalevi: no, it doesn't handle that atm
diotalevi: you can either hack it in or I can make it join another channel (like #perl6test) 15:32
moritz_ is too lazy to hack it atm
diotalevi ok, well maybe more later. gotta run now 15:34
pugs_svnbot r18426 | ruoso++ | [yap6] Lists and Hashes contains Scalars, Basic int type, Single initialization method, Some work in supporting lists. 15:38
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18426
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18426 - Pugs - Trac
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Juerd masak: I don't *speak* Esperanto. I can't think of the words fast enough to make sentences while talking :) 15:58
masak Juerd: oh, I didn't know that
moritz_ Juerd: does Esperanto use non-ASCII characters? 15:59
Juerd moritz_: Normally, yes.
masak Juerd: you've always given the impression of being a fluent Eo speaker here on the channel, even though I have no trouble believing that you've never asserted that
fglock I can't find the problem with r18419
Juerd moritz_: The ĉ, ĝ, Ä„, ĵ, ŝ, Å­ aren't ASCII, but can be written as cx, gx, hx, jx, sx, ux unambiguously because Esperanto has no x. 16:00
masak: Tajpi gxin al mi ne malfacilas :)
masak I half-dislike the x method, actually
Juerd Kaj mi jes uzas la lingvon en IRC :)
moritz_ fglock: did you try if mp6 bootstrappped before your recent mp6 changes?
masak I use ch, gh, etc since a while back
moritz_ Juerd: ok, thanks
masak Juerd: kial tiam vi pensas ke vi ne kapablas paroli ghin sufiche rapide? 16:01
Juerd masak: ch and sh make sense from an English perspective.
masak yes
Juerd masak: Mi scias tion, ne nur pensas :)
avar Aankhen``: wrarr
Juerd Provi montris :) 16:02
avar Aankhen``: no work on kp6-lisp lately;/
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masak Juerd: estas kompreneble demando de alkutimigho 16:02
mi bezonis eble kkjn monatojn por kapabli paroli sufiche rapide 16:03
amnesiac what the... 16:04
yo no entiendo ni madres :(
Tene has never been interested in Esperanto, but has been active in the lojban community for quite a while. 16:06
masak Tene: cool
Tene: do you speak it?
Tene masak: yes. 16:07
I also have a version of most of the lojban grammar in Perl 6 rules on my dead laptop with no convenient way to recover it or other copies.
fglock moritz_: re try, yes
masak Tene: as a speaker of esperanto, I confess to having a few prejudices about lojban. for example, I've heard some people claiming that it's not possible to carry on a conversation in lojban. therefore it's comforting to actually get to meet someone who actually speaks the language 16:11
Tene masak: I have voice chats with a few other lojbanists every other week or so. It's *very* possible. 16:12
masak Tene: cool. then I don't need to worry about that prejudice any more 16:13
/ 16:15
Tene It is true that there aren't many lojbanists that have enough experience to speak conversationally.
masak ok
dinner &
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fglock I think I found the bug - it's a misplaced regex group 16:16
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pugs_svnbot r18427 | fglock++ | [mp6] fixed .new() 16:23
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18427
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18427 - Pugs - Trac
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pugs_svnbot r18428 | ruoso++ | [yap6] Starting the list dispatcher 16:28
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18428
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18428 - Pugs - Trac
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TimToady diotalevi> What is the meaning of when( $foo || $bar )? 16:57
actually, that just calls the when() subroutine. :)
which probably doesn't exist
(statement_control keywords require a following whitespace) 16:58
the idea is future-proofing your foo() calls from an accidental "foo" keyword that someone might add later. 16:59
avar TimToady: re recent use.perl thingy, what was laking in ::TRE? re::engine::TRE deficiencies or..? 17:11
I noticed that you said you had trouble seeing what path the match took, not suprisingly:) 17:12
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TimToady to use TRE for that, a pattern like /(()|())/ has to examine each capture, when TRE actually knew which one it set exactly at the point it was setting it 17:13
I mean, the wrapping code has to examine each capture
avar yes, and compare it with the pattern? 17:14
TimToady and STD tends to produce something like (()|()|()|()|()|()|()|()|()|())
I just want to know that $7 is the one that matched without looking at $6
avar kp6 handles this by putting embedded evals everywhere that keep track of the progress
TimToady I'm just gonna write my own NFA traverser in P6 17:15
avar ah, 5.10 also makes that easier:)
TimToady need it eventually anyway
and then I can make it remember whatever I want it to remember
it's not *that* hard to write a regex matcher that proceeds character by character and keeps track of sets of states 17:16
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TimToady just have to keep track of your epsilons and your follow sets 17:17
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TimToady and for typical lexer usage, there aren't going to be a lot of states to keep track of 17:18
alternatives tend to disqualify themselves faster than match positions multiply 17:19
and everything is anchored to the current position
lexers tend to be well behaved that way 17:20
you're not scanning hundreds of bytes for a fugitive pattern
fglock PCR regex does state tracking, but it's probably not in the same sense
TimToady not unless all your alternatives run in parallel over each char of input 17:21
that's what I'm aiming for
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TimToady I not only have to find the longest token, but I'd like to remember where the 2nd longest, 3rd longest, etc were too 17:22
in case I need to backtrack on an "endsym" assertion or other delayed assertion
fglock it's possible to modify it - svn.pugscode.org/pugs/perl5/Pugs-Co...e/Regex.pm in 'sub alternation' 17:23
lambdabot tinyurl.com/yvlx8k
TimToady a token is allowed to say 'foo' <?{ bar() }> 'baz' for instance
and the lexer only looks for 'foobar', and checks the assertion later 17:24
'foobaz', rather
which we can do, assuming the regex match is "pure", and that it remembers the position to run the assertion at 17:25
but it implies that longest token matching is provisional, and might backtrack to a shorter longest token.
fglock yes, it looks doable 17:26
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fglock though PCR:Regex is a bit too slow for real use 17:27
TimToady well, sure, but the whole STD thing is proof of concept for now
or disproof, as the case may be :) 17:28
biab &
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pugs_svnbot r18429 | ruoso++ | [yap6] YAY!!!! Basic list features working... list test passing... 17:32
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18429
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18429 - Pugs - Trac
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ruoso fglock, t_04_list.c passes :) 17:32
which implements lazy autovivification on lists
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fglock ruoso++ 17:33
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pugs_svnbot r18430 | ruoso++ | [yap6] now we have "make test" 17:55
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18430
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18430 - Pugs - Trac
fglock & 18:03
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pugs_svnbot r18431 | ruoso++ | [yap6] the scalar only holds the reference to the list while needed for lazy autovivification... 18:44
r18432 | ruoso++ | [yap6] documenting next step...
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18432
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18432 - Pugs - Trac
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moritz_ ruoso: do I have to call automake or something to compile yaph? 20:11
ruoso: if so, you should write that into INSTALL
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pugs_svnbot r18433 | brian_d_foy++ | * Going through S02 and writing tests for all of the number 21:30
r18433 | brian_d_foy++ | format examples.
r18433 | brian_d_foy++ | * I moved the stuff testing embedded underscores from misc.t
r18433 | brian_d_foy++ | to underscores.t
r18433 | brian_d_foy++ | * the for loop in misc.t seems to have a syntax problem,
r18433 | brian_d_foy++ | complaining about a missing $_ parameter.
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18433
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18433 - Pugs - Trac
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moritz_ compiling pugs is so much better without swapping ;) 21:59
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pugs_svnbot r18434 | brian_d_foy++ | * fixe cut-n-paste error in decimal.t comment 22:04
r18434 | brian_d_foy++ | * list_of_digits.t tests things like :10[<list>]
r18434 | brian_d_foy++ | * fraction_inside_radix.t tests things like :16<abc.def>
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/18434
lambdabot Title: Changeset 18434 - Pugs - Trac
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moritz_ less than 12 minutes to build the deb packages (including a 'make realclean; make') - not bad ;) 22:13
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meppl good night 23:23
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