»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: , or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by wolfe.freenode.net on 30 October 2009.
eric256 actualy, took only minutes to refix, bug hunting is nice that way 00:00
eric256 now has 65 substr tests failing gracefully instead of having the whole file unparseable 00:01
hehe
:P
later guys, off for home
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wayland76 lithology++ 00:04
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K9 hello 02:16
where is this channel ill connect with my mIRC
diakopter ?
K9 all i could find was this link on my browser.
what irc network is this
diakopter :) freenode
K9 irc.freenode.org ?
diakopter irc.freenode.net 02:17
02:17 ^K9 joined
^K9 good 02:17
02:17 K9 left
^K9 Hi i hope im at the right place 02:17
ive been trying to get this bot to work but I coudlnt', its called Zaslon
anyone here knows how to work with it ?
diakopter looks around for carlin
^K9 oh carlin lol 02:18
ive seen that name in the documenation
looks like a pretty good bot
diakopter I haven't looked at the code, myself 02:19
(lazy of me)
^K9 hehe
do u think u could help me ?
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diakopter have you built rakudo? 02:19
^K9 got some pretty general questions...
rakudo ?
just took all the files into a blank mirc and ran the files like he said in the readme.txt 02:21
can't seem to make it work tho
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diakopter I don't know what you mean by "blank mirc" 02:24
^K9 mIRC.exe
diakopter well, I'm afraid I thikn I do
^K9 when I run a mIRC.exe in a folder it just installs all the files it needs.
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^K9 thats what i meant :) 02:25
diakopter zaslon won't function as a bot inside mirc.
^K9 o?
diakopter it runs standalone, afaik.
^K9 what do I need to do to make it work ?
diakopter you need a build of Perl 6 (rakudo) 02:26
^K9 can I do that on Windows 7 ?
diakopter sourceforge.net/projects/parrotwin3...e/download
^K9 downloading thank you 02:27
diakopter actually, I think you have to install this one first: sourceforge.net/projects/parrotwin3...e/download
^K9 ok 02:28
ok so ive installed both of em 02:29
only option in start menu is to uninstall 02:30
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^K9 slaps diakopter around a bit with a large trout 02:35
:P
im looking at one of your channel logs 02:37
zaslon works perfectly
diakopter ^K9: it's not a point-n-click program
you must launch it from the command line, after configuring it 02:38
zaslon, I mean.
^K9 yes ive seen that on the /bin
and i can handle configuring it
i just don't know how to launch things
like i dont know the basic commands on that perl6 thingy
diakopter windows Command Prompt
^K9 cmd ? 02:39
diakopter yes
at this point, I will advise caution
^K9 what
what do u mean ?
diakopter it's easy to destroy things inadvertently :) 02:40
^K9 ok ill take the risk
im assuming by what you told me earlier that u don't know how to configure the bot right ?
diakopter I just read the code 02:41
so, now I do. :)
^K9 lol
diakopter first, you'll need to install proto
^K9 i just read that code
im a C# developer
I don't really understand how this linux stuff works tho
diakopter ah 02:42
I'm a C# developer also.
^K9 how old are you ?
diakopter kicks in the universal translator
why, how old are you?
^K9 ive been looking for a job for ages.
23
diakopter 29 02:43
^K9 got a job in the field i assume
diakopter not doing C# at the moment, but yes
^K9 that's just great man
all the best...
diakopter you've just installed parrot, which is akin to the .NET CLR 02:44
^K9 akin ?
diakopter akin, meaning intended to do the same things.
the same sorts of things.
^K9 oh cool
diakopter run various languages with high interoperability
^K9 but how do i configure the bot first of all
diakopter you'll need to use another program "proto" to install its dependencies 02:45
^K9 oh alrighty than
diakopter but, for that, you'll need Perl 5 :)
I think :)
^K9 damn
let me ask you a differnt question\
all I want is an IRC bot to fetch posts information from wordpress 02:46
do you happen to know one that does that without installing the whole world ?
diakopter this one looks ok www.hawkee.com/snippet/5925/ 02:47
I can't vouch for it, of course. I'd search google for "mirc" "rss"
^K9 yeah using the rss would be smart... 02:48
diakopter (that's what zaslon does)
^K9 REALLY?
diakopter yes
^K9 oh alright 02:49
well diakopter
thanks a lot
diakopter yw 02:50
^K9 have a great nighjt :)
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pugs_svn r29474 | mberends++ | [vill] statementlist() gets through to statement(), small doc updates 05:22
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Su-Shee good morning 07:11
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saschi Su-Shee: hello 07:14
^^
similar sounding nicknames >_< 07:15
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mberends two days ago microsoft finally decided to support SVG blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2010/01/0...group.aspx 07:38
.oO( does that mean they figured out how to "embrace and extend" SVG? )
 07:44
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Hurley hi 07:45
mberends hi Hurley
Hurley how can i set on perl 64 the integer as 32bit signed to make a overflow on bitwise for a hash? 07:46
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mberends hmm. sounds like a Perl 5 question. Is that what you're using, Hurley ? 07:48
Hurley yes on 64bit 07:49
version 5.10
mberends we _use_ Perl 5 here to build Perl 6, but we're not all that expert at this kind of thing. Have you tried other Perl IRC channels? 07:50
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Hurley i try on perl channel 07:51
thanks
mberends good luck :)
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sjohnson diakopter: javascript is causing me much grief 07:53
var num = 00.00; and 0.0 will cause completely different results
</rant> 07:54
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diakopter sjohnson: oh? 07:54
what are the different results
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diakopter in V8/Chrome, 00.00 is a syntax error. 07:55
same in IE 07:56
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diakopter sjohnson: same in safari 07:57
07:57 bryan[c1] joined
diakopter same in firefox 07:58
sjohnson: opera accepts it, but it's identical to 0.0 08:00
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sjohnson diakopter: is it a syntax error in perl? 08:06
my argument for why i hate javascript
causing me unbelievable frustration to get something that would take perl 2 minutes to do
is taking forever
can't see declaring something to be 0.0 or 0.00 or 00.00 to cause huge problems for most languages.. though i have learned that javascript is low-level 08:07
as opposed to some other languages that can handle this without any problems.. 08:08
diakopter I read that as "I don't like it because it's different from the languages to which I'm accustomed" 08:10
bryan[c1] do you guys know a way to increment through websites within a domain?
diakopter but in perl, 00.00 produces the string "00"
sjohnson diakopter: how do you add to a var int; variable, something from getElementbyId().value? 08:11
the only way i have it working, is to do x = x - -(getelementbyid... etc
+= assumes it's a string
diakopter only if x is already a string
sjohnson having trouble declaring x as a float 08:12
tried var x = new Float();
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diakopter sjohnson: all numbers in javascript are doubles 08:12
08:12 bryan[c1] left
diakopter (unless the compiler can infer it's always used as an int, uint, etc) 08:13
sjohnson alright, you are correct that i dont really know it well
though, how about this for a good argument: how do you do here documents easily
without having to do 'text'+ for every line 08:14
diakopter put a \ at the end of the line you want to wrap inside a string literal
var x = "hihi \
<new line>
hihi";
sjohnson ... i wish the documents i found on google told me that ... :)
diakopter: plz2help me declare an int 08:15
is var inty = 0; the best way?
diakopter easy; var x = 0
(if you're going to be adding to it)
if you're going to be multiplying it, init it as 1, of course) 08:16
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sjohnson diakopter: alright maybe js isn't so bad :) 08:16
just bad documentation on the internet
and i don't think David O'Flannigan is the best writer as far as Javascript bibles go 08:17
everytime i look up "how to do basic array stuff"
chapter gives mickey mouse examples 08:18
and says "you can find MORE elsewhere in this book, in chapter 8..." etc
diakopter I agree; "JavaScripdt: The Definition Guide" is about the worst one I've flipped through at the bookstore.
Definitive, I mean
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sjohnson diakopter: he didnt do any better on his Ruby book 08:32
he even stated that he wanted the book format to mimic K&R C 08:33
and it's a piece of crap compared to K&R C
Su-Shee I liked "javascript - the good parts" (and a short reference at hand) 08:34
sjohnson Su-Shee: now THAT is a good book
i bought it and work paid for it
and i agree with the "bad parts" section
as the author states that a few things were rushed
Su-Shee overall, I started to like the books published by manning more than o'reilly's. 08:36
(does one really write "o'reilly's car"?)
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langen yes 08:39
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mathw Indeed one does 08:51
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frettled diakopter: hee-hee, funny conversation with ^k9 tonight :) 09:29
diakopter: Perl 6 now has market penetration! \o/
carlin++
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moritz_ good morning 09:58
mathw oh hai moritz_
frettled lolwerelolcatz 09:59
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mathw sleepy ones 10:00
in my case, anyway
wayland76 and diakopter++ for answering fairly non-P6 questions :) 10:02
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szbalint good morning 10:05
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frettled wayland76: but I do that all the time, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt! 10:08
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wayland76 frettled: Sounds like your t-shirt needs de-lousing then :) 11:03
moritz_ has asked and answered lots of off-topic questions here and elsewhere, and never got a t-shirt for it :-)
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frettled moritz_: I had to pay for mine ;) 11:08
wayland76 is tring to figure out whether "lolwerelolcatz" means "We are lolcats" or whether it refers to a werelolcat, an animal that is somewhat like a werewolf, but with a lolcat instead of a wolf
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saschi i'm working topless 11:14
wayland76 I expect to do that later this week. It should be 38 (Celsius) outside, and maybe more in here where I am 11:15
soupdragon in this cold?? 11:16
saschi yep
wayland76 well, it's warm here in Australia :) 11:17
saschi wayland: i guess, there is kinda summer 'cause of this odd earth's rotation axis >_< 11:20
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moritz_ 38 °C > 100 F 11:33
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frettled Today is a positively balmy -15 °C, light snow, some sunshine. 12:09
(that's 5 °F, BTW) 12:10
And now you guys know why the Nordic Perl Workshop never was in January ;)
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frettled can imagine the headlines: «Perl development halted - main developers out with cold, flu and broken hips» 12:11
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Su-Shee frettled: not all of us are over 60. ;) 12:12
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frettled Su-Shee: you'll have to settle for a common cold, then ;) 12:14
Mind you, this is still better than the worst weather in the northern US states. 12:15
or Canada, brrrr.
frettled still wants to have a YAPC::Spitsbergen
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wayland76 Su-Shee: You can go in a car adccident for the broken hips, if you prefer :) 12:23
'night all :)
saschi this morning we had -22 deg C 12:24
wayland: good night! ^^
Su-Shee saschi: where the hell are you? 12:25
saschi Su-Shee: Wolfenbuettel (Lower Saxony)
Su-Shee _wolfenbuettel_ had -22?! 12:26
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saschi Su-Shee: yes, here in the periphery of wolfenbuettel 12:28
Su-Shee
.oO(there's something more periphery than wolfenbuettel already is? ;)
 12:29
saschi Su-Shee: i'm living near the asse
Su-Shee: well, yeah, there truly is :D
Su-Shee: maybe that's why the german one and only ultimate storage place for nuclear waste is nearby ;) 12:30
Su-Shee gee. I would move. ;) 12:31
saschi well :D
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saschi Su-Shee: i will - in a couple of years 12:33
Su-Shee then it's too late. ;) 12:34
moritz_ saschi: I've been in Wolfenbüttel over Christmas :-) 12:35
saschi Su-Shee: since it's really scary, that, if you are standing on the western hill side of the asse, you've direct line of sight to the headgear of schacht konrad, the other candidate for high radiactive waste >_< 12:36
moritz_: uh, you've family here? ^^
moritz_ saschi: no, but my girlfriend has 12:37
saschi moritz_: any relations with matthias "the guitarist" lenz?
moritz_: ah, ok :)
moritz_ not that I'm aware of :-)
saschi Su-Shee: i guess, we've app. two decades left :D 12:38
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saschi if nothing will be done (except more MgCl_2 for Carnallit stabilization) 12:41
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takadonet morning all 13:00
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takadonet hey mj41 14:02
PerlJam good soon-to-be-cold-and-windy morning from Corpus Christi Texas 14:04
takadonet PerlJam: how cold are you talking about? 14:05
frettled takadonet: probably so cold that the infrastructure isn't designed to handle it :)
takadonet frettled: Just be glad you are not where I'm right now 14:06
PerlJam I hear it's going to get into the 30s and then < 20 tomorrow. Not "cold" by some standards, but for a place where winter usually means we have to wear a long sleeve shirt instead of a short sleeve shirt, it's too cold :)
frettled takadonet: too warm?
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takadonet frettled: -38 C 14:06
frettled takadonet: too warm. ;)
takadonet: but yep, I'm glad. 14:07
takadonet: if it was that cold outside, I'd have to go down to the server room, that one stays at around +20-22 :) 14:08
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eric256 ng doesn't have exit yet? 14:46
ng: exit
p6eval ng 3f06c7: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
moritz_ ng: exit 14:48
p6eval ng 3f06c7: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
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moritz_ ng: exit 14:49
p6eval ng 3f06c7: Could not find non-existent sub &exit␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
eric256 yay! got t/spec/S32-str/substr.t to at least run completly, now to fix and unfudge 14:52
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PerlJam eric256: \o/ 15:35
eric256 i think the tests are wrong, they are expecting four arg substr to do an inplace edit 15:36
moritz_ that's the Perl 5 behaviour
eric256 not according to the docs....
oh wait, that part is in the example..... 15:37
moritz_ S32/Str.pod says the return value 'is rw'
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eric256 arg each test is passing $str along and modifying it, so the test depends on the test before it suceeding,/me goes to change it 15:42
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TimToady ponders the semantics of substr($x,3,5) += 2, and then wonders about my Str $x = "10"; $x += 2; 17:23
rakudo: my Str $x = "10"; $x += 2; 17:24
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: Assignment type check failed; expected Str, but got Num␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
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PerlJam TimToady: lvalue substr does str -> num conversion on just that portion of the string, adds 2 to the number, then does a num -> str conversion and inserts that string in the appropriate place in the original ??? 17:27
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TimToady well, it does in Perl 5, I expect 17:33
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TimToady my $x = '000000'; substr($x,2,2) += 4; print $x,"\n"; # prints 00400 17:35
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ash_ in perl 5, my $a = "ab 12"; substr($a, 3, 2) += 5; print $a; printed ab 17, which is what i'd expect it to, but i never thought of using substr like that before 17:36
TimToady lvalue substr is more versatile than 4-arg substr, but I suspect 4-arg substr can be more efficiently implemented
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TimToady so the type of the lvalue is not really Str, but something like Cool>Str (using that as a coercion type notation) 17:39
presumably >Str defaults to Cool
in which case my >Str $x = "10"; $x += 2; would have similar back-to-string semantics 17:40
PerlJam Wasn't audrey or someone looking at using Judy strings in pugs? Maybe Perl 6 could spec that and expose it to the users so they'd have type Judy :)
TimToady we'd need both Punch and Judy
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ash_ why was Object changed to Mu again? i can't remember 17:44
Tene Soviet cows.
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TimToady because people couldn't combine their idea of "object" with their idea of "undef", and were confused when Perl printed out "Object" to mean the most undefined value 17:47
and Soviet cows 17:48
hejki weird
i thought it was cause Hitler?
TimToady wasn't expecting Godwin's Law that soon...
PerlJam wasn't expected Godwin's Law at all 17:49
s/expected/expecting/
hejki ok sorry i was too bold with it
soviet cows made me think of lenin
and then mussolinis stache
which brought back adolf
TimToady that's almost as tenuous as some of my reasoning 17:50
hejki i've noticed that most people fluent with Perl tend to have some weird neuropathic way in logical thinking 17:51
ash_ what is the my >Str $x; semantics, I haven't seen a '>' before used like that
hejki i recall reading some medical study that linked that with chronic usage of regexp
PerlJam hejki: that's a community trait--bizarre thinking.
hejki :P
i'd call it a 'perk' instead tbh 17:52
huf perl-1?
PerlJam perl--
TimToady rakudo: my $name = 'perk'; $name++; say $name
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: perl␤
huf coincidence? i'm just asking questions here ;)
PerlJam wonders if rakudo still has the proper semantics ... 17:53
TimToady ash_: I've mentioned >Str once or twice on channel in the past as a potential coercive type notation
PerlJam rakudo: my $n = "foo99.jpg"; $n++; say $n;
TimToady I've also mentioned Str() for the same thing
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: fop00.jpg␤
PerlJam rakudo: my $n = "foo.99.jpg"; $n++; say $n; 17:54
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: fop.99.jpg␤
PerlJam rakudo: my $n = "9Z.jpg"; $n++; say $n;
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: 10A.jpg␤
huf c'mon we want manly jpegs
ash_ so, instead of failing an assignment to the value it will convert it to a string then try the assignment?
TimToady or if used as a parameter, constrains the type to be the "outer" type, but coerces to the "inner" type
ash_ would that work only with Str objects? or could you define some meta/magic/whatever function so your custom objects can do a similar coercion? 17:55
TimToady sub foo (Foo>Bar $x) {} would allow any Foo but coerce to Bar 17:56
or sub foo(Bar(Foo) $x) {} in the other notation
the > seems more mnemonic though
ash_ So that takes a Foo and turns it into a Bar once the functions called?
TimToady and we don't have prefix:«>»
PerlJam TimToady: today was the first time I've seen you mention the > notation that I can recall, and I tend to agree that it seems to work better. 17:57
TimToady that's the idea; we already use this notation for infix:<+> and such
s/notation/notion/
up till now we've just been poking extra multis into Any (now Cool, conjecturally) 17:58
ash_ Sounds like that would be useful, is it strickly syntactic sugar for sub foo(Bar(Foo) $x) {} or would you need to define a .prefix:«>» () in your class to get the functionality? or are you still thinking about it> 17:59
s/>/\?/
TimToady so something like multi infix:<+> (>Num $x, >Num $y) would define both (Num $x, Num $y) and (Cool $x, Cool $y) sigs, the latter coercing to the former 18:00
we would not have both >Bar and Bar()
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TimToady well, those aren't the only two syntactic possibilities 18:03
since the notation is used only in declarations, could even use .Bar and Foo.Bar
since .Bar is a normal coercion in normal expressions 18:04
ash_ sub foo(Foo as Bar $a) { ... } # i guess as is taken?
TimToady (.Num $x, .Num $y) doesn't read so badly either
however, people who think they can leave declarators off will not get a good error message 18:05
PerlJam anything without the parens will probably read okay :)
TimToady well, I guess .Num $x is also a two-terms-in-a-row error, so maybe it's not so bad 18:06
that'd mean 'my .Num $x' is short for 'my Cool.Num $x' 18:07
PerlJam Hmm.
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PerlJam the dot makes me want to ask about the Num method on Cool 18:08
That doesn't connect well with coercion like the > does 18:09
TimToady but the Num method *is* a coercion on Cool :)
ash_ But is there a Bar method on Foo? 18:10
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TimToady sorry, we're distracted here by a cute little earthquake, felt like about a 3.0 18:12
ash_: the parser knows if a method name is a known type, and can force it to be a coercion 18:14
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ash_ but doesn't the '.' semantic imply a method call? 18:16
PerlJam ash_: yes, and that's what does the coercion.
(from what I can tell)
TimToady actually, USGS says it was a 4.2 over east of Fremont 18:17
ash_ ah, i guess i am misunderstanding how coercion is occuring, will that do: my Bar $a; my .Foo $b = $a; and under the hood do $b = $a.Foo; 18:19
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TimToady coercions may be specified either by the "from" type or the "to" type. on the "from" type it looks like a method. on the "to" type it looks like a call to postcircumfix:<( )> 18:21
either of these can fall back on the other, I suspect
so if there is only one definition or the other, Foo($x) and $x.Foo are equivalent 18:22
ash_ When you do Foo($x) is that like a Foo.new($x)? 18:23
eric256 starts to doubt that substr should modify a string at all
PerlJam TimToady: Earlier it looked like my .X $x; was meant to be an Any->X coercer. True? 18:26
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PerlJam er, I guees the proper example would be something like sub foo (.X $x) { ... } 18:28
TimToady the coercing types now derive from Cool (which derives from Any) 18:29
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PerlJam and maybe it was Cool->X, but still. If either of those is the case, then doesn't that run afoul of the idea that .X is a method call on $_ ? 18:29
TimToady so I think it would be Cool->X
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TimToady not in a declaration 18:29
but there is potential for user confusion, even if the compiler isn't confused 18:30
so maybe > is better in that regard
PerlJam if we've hardwired everyone to think of .foo as the same as $_.foo, (and I think we have) then there'll definitely be user confusion (IMHO)
TimToady worse for writing HTML though :) 18:31
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scottietaz in that case (HTML) you could use the parenthesis though, yes? 18:36
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PerlJam scottietaz: we already use > and < all over the place in Perl, so I don't think it'll be too much of an added burden here :) 18:39
besides, I find the parentheses icky (perhaps that's just my anti-lisp bias showing)
scottietaz I'm in favor of the > over the . 18:40
ash_ sub foo(Foo as Bar $a) { ... } makes sense to me, Your expecting Foo but its going to function as a Bar 18:42
but then i guess the Mu/Cool case doesn't make sens, my as Bar $a;
PerlJam ash_: aye, as far as wordy ops go, that does make sense.
ash_: my * as Bar $a; 18:43
ash_ bbl, i have to go to lunch
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scottietaz why not, my as Bar $a; 18:46
PerlJam it doesn't read well.
sub foo (as Bar $a) { ... } 18:47
sub foo (Any:Bar $a) { ... } # everyone wants the colon! :) 18:48
Juerd What are you brainstorming about?
PerlJam type coercion syntax. 18:49
Juerd sub foo ($a.=Bar) { ... }
Can't work, can it :)
PerlJam Juerd: well, it's more like this: sub foo (X>Y $x) { ... } # foo accepts an X or a Y, but if it gets an X, it is coerced into a Y 18:50
Juerd Does that happen a lot? 18:51
scottietaz So can you say, my Any as Bar $a;
TimToady happens every time you say "2" + "4"
scottietaz but I think the > syntax is fine 18:52
Juerd Oh, it doesn't automatically just coerce everything?
TimToady we would like to rely on multidispatch to decide whether coercion is necessary, and remove extra tests on the bare version for speed
douglashunter wonders if a type coercion discussion caused the earthquake... 18:53
TimToady likely 18:54
Juerd Can you add a type later on?
PerlJam we must've crossed some criticla threshhold because we've talked about it before without an earthquake.
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Juerd If so, I suggest "takes" :) 18:54
my Str $foo takes Num; $foo takes Blah; 18:55
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PerlJam That seems more akin to my Str|Num $foo; 18:57
scottietaz That looks like a type junction 18:58
PerlJam yep
"takes" doesn't connote coercion for me.
scottietaz exactly what I was about to say regarding the type junction
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scottietaz does that exist btw? 18:59
diakopter rakudo: my $x = "perk"; ++$x for 1..10; say $x
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: peru␤
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diakopter rakudo: my $x = "perk"; $x+=10; say $x 18:59
Juerd PerlJam: It's much like this Polish restaurant that had a sign "we take euro". But you get change in zloty.
p6eval rakudo 3867ff: 10␤
PerlJam It's funny, but it's a rather small thing. ">" doesn't connote coercion either but once you learn what it means in that context, it's suggestive of it. If we were to use "takes", I'd forever be fighting historical baggage from the english language to remember what it does and when it can and can't be used. 19:00
Juerd PerlJam: But how about "eats" then? :D
TimToady scottietaz: no, not as a storage type declaration, and not really even as a constraint yet
Juerd sub foo (Bar $a eats Any) { ... } 19:01
Yum!
Bon apetit :)
TimToady currently you have to use a subset type to get the constraint as a junction
PerlJam Juerd: (-:
Juerd my Cat $kitty eats Mouse;
Weird.
TimToady the syntax has to support a default of Cool 19:02
Juerd What does that mean?
diakopter Cool was the codename for C#/.Net pre-2000 19:03
PerlJam Juerd: sub foo (>X $x) { ... } # accepts a Cool or an X, coerces the Cool into an X
same as sub foo(Cool>X $x) { ... }
Juerd What's... a Cool?
TimToady see S02:1113 and S02:1543
Juerd TimToady: Will do
TimToady it's what Any used to do, along with "anyness" 19:04
but moritz_++ suggested that user-defined types wouldn't want Perl's standard autocoercion semantics by default 19:05
Juerd Wow, I'm confused.
Or overwhelmed. Maybe both.
And S02 crashed my firefox 19:08
PerlJam ff was overwhelmed too 19:10
Juerd But I haven't crashed
douglashunter I'm just starting to read the spec, so feel free to ignore. What does: `sub foo ( Num $bar as Str ) { ... }` do? 19:12
PerlJam douglashunter: nothing, it's a proposed syntax 19:14
oh wait, I misread I think.
douglashunter I mean, is that a possible way to write coercion? Or is it reserved for something else?
s/reserved/speced as/
Or do I need to go keep reading [grin] 19:15
PerlJam okay, now that I've fixed the weird wrapping on my terminal ... 19:16
douglashunter Oh, I didn't see that was basically proposed in my readback buffer here.
I think I was asking a version of what ash_ asked. 19:18
My (limited) understanding of types makes me want to put "as" in a signature to coerce.
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PerlJam douglashunter: currently Perl uses "as Foo" as a possible return type on a subroutine though (which is why I thought I may have misread for a second). 19:20
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PerlJam (see S02) 19:21
douglashunter Maybe I don't understand the terminology, but I thought "as Foo" was a trait, not part of the parameters. sub foo as Bar {...}; # foo() returns a Bar. 19:22
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PerlJam douglashunter: no, it sounds like you understand well. 19:22
douglashunter Is it already used in parameters as well? sub foo (Num $bar as Bar) { ... }; # foo takes a Num in $bar, coerces it to a Bar 19:23
PerlJam douglashunter: no, it's not.
douglashunter Cool. That might be a nice way to coerce. 19:24
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PerlJam except that they mean different things. sub foo as Bar (Blah $x as Baz) { ... } # would be confusing. 19:25
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douglashunter It's pretty clear to me that foo is a subroutine and $x is a Blah, and they respectively become a Bar and a Baz there. 19:26
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douglashunter if it weren't so long, we could write that as `sub foo as Bar (Blah $x becomes Baz) { ... } 19:27
maybe that's clearer though. 19:28
I can't believe I'm contributing to the earthquake that happened [grin] 19:29
PerlJam Using "as" for both would be confusing because one means "may be a Bar" and the other means "is coerced into a Baz".
though if they were unified to always mean "turns into the type on the RHS", I guess that would be fine. 19:30
douglashunter Ah, sub foo as Bar { ... } allows different return types?
PerlJam I still like Foo>bar $x :)
douglashunter: see S02:1472 19:31
douglashunter I dig that, too, because it makes sense to my *nix redirect semantics.
PerlJam: cool, will do.
But it seems that most of our nifty shorcut syntaxes also have a longer spelled out version.
(Foo>bar $x) possibly spelled as (Foo $x becomes bar) in the parameters? 19:32
PerlJam: S02:1472 will require me to bend my mind a bit [grin], thanks. 19:38
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TimToady I'm not sure that S02:1472 is well thought out wrt "as" 19:51
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PerlJam TimToady: well, it does have the same "structure" as what we're talking about for coercions ... except it doesn't have the coercion :) 19:54
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ash_ so, on functions using 'as' is loose and using 'of' is enforced? 20:05
TimToady 'as' was meant to imply auto-coecion on the return value, but it might not be worth the mental cost, especially if coercion falls out of type syntax anyway, such as 'of >Num' 20:08
ash_ the last sentence of that in S02 is confusing to me referring to: my sub wanda ($x --> Squid) as Fish { ... } ; That should return the type Squid but inside the function your'll be returning a Fish which is getting coercered into a Squid? (please correct me if I am completely mis-reading that) 20:12
with the > syntax, you could change that to: my sub wanda ($x --> >Squid) { ... } 20:14
PerlJam ($x --> Fish>Squid) you mean 20:16
>Squid would mean Cool>Squid 20:17
ash_ oh, yeah, right i forgot the Fish 20:19
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ash_ so, my sub wanda ($x --> Fish>Squid) { ... }; &wanda.returns; should give Squid? or Fish? 20:49
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TimToady it would alway give a Squid, but you could return a Fish that would coerce to a Squid 20:52
*always
ash_ okay, i get it now
so... could you also do say: my sub wanda ($x --> Animal|Fish>Squid) { ... }; and have it return an Animal or Fish that get coerced into a Squid? 20:53
just trying to think of all of a use of that, it might be nice if you had say a rendering function that could take a Str|HTMLElement and coerce it into say a RenderedOutput object or something 20:56
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mohij hey guys. I just found out that in perl6 one can attach roles to instantiated objects this essentially allows to modify the interface of already instantiated objects. This is a feature I missed in all other object oriented languages i know. Now I can only say: Perl6 is SO going to rock :-D Thank you guys. 22:14
PerlJam mohij: cool. Glad you like it.
mohij: btw, you can modify more than just the "interface" of individual, already instantiated objects :) 22:16
Juerd Javascript's prototype based OO lets you add things too. 22:17
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dalek ok: c5fca57 | chromatic++ | src/builtins.pod:
Minor edits to the builtins section; some author comments.
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