»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: , or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by diakopter on 25 January 2010.
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spinclad erg. at 22:55:19 i lose my connection to irc.freenode.net, i'm reconnected by 22:55:55 (to calvino) but NickServ doesn't come back till 23:05, so i'm not identified till i repeat my identify /msg later, and #perl6 says: 04:11
22:55:57 [freenode] -!- #perl6 Cannot join channel (+j) - throttle exceeded, try again later
i'm not sure what correlates with what there, but a number of people have mentioned the like for them. 04:13
(here, rather than spam #perl6 with this, i'll go mention it on #freenode, see if someone has a clue...) 04:14
Khisanth that sounds like what you would expect when everyone on the network has to reconnect :) 04:19
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Eddward perl6: say 10_000_000_000 / 8_700_000 04:27
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1149.4252873563218390804597701149425287356322␤»
..elf 29602, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«1149.42528735632␤»
Eddward ?
perl6: say 10000000000 / 8700000
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1149.4252873563218390804597701149425287356322␤»
..elf 29602, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«1149.42528735632␤»
Eddward Trying to figure out how much Gates is spending per person he's projected to save over 10 years. 04:29
print 10_000_000_000 / 8_700_000 04:30
perl6: print 10_000_000_000 / 8_700_000
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1149.4252873563218390804597701149425287356322»
..elf 29602, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«1149.42528735632»
Eddward ok, I think I get it.
I get -246.827586206897 when I run it on my system. 04:31
perl6: print say (10_000_000_000 / 8_700_000).perl 04:33
p6eval pugs, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«100000/87␤1»
..elf 29602: OUTPUT«1149.42528735632␤1»
Eddward ask
err ack
I should sleep
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Eddward perl6: print (10_000_000_000 / 8_700_000).perl 04:34
p6eval elf 29602: OUTPUT«1149.42528735632»
..pugs, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«100000/87»
Eddward perl6: print "Goodnight Eddward." 04:36
p6eval elf 29602, pugs, rakudo 1d4928: OUTPUT«Goodnight Eddward.»
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diakopter in the statically-typed subset of Perl 6 I'm implementing in Sprixel, I'm trying to decide how to reify continuations. 06:18
06:28 Baggiokwok joined
diakopter I suppose the simplest technique is to provide two statement prefixes: return-cc returns a continuation with the result of the prefixed statement stashed in it (analogous to C#'s yield, most useful for iterators/generators), and call-cc that invokes a closure passing in the current continuation as the sole argument. 06:32
I guess yield-cc is a more appropriate name for the first one 06:34
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diakopter colomon: hi 06:46
colomon hello! 06:47
diakopter .u 8787 06:49
phenny U+8787 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8787 (螇)
diakopter .u 8998
phenny U+8998 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8998 (覘)
diakopter .u 19980
phenny diakopter: Sorry, no results for '19980'.
diakopter .u 29980
phenny diakopter: Sorry, no results for '29980'.
diakopter .u 20001
phenny diakopter: Sorry, no results for '20001'.
diakopter .u FFFF
phenny U+FFFF (No name found)
diakopter .u FFFFF 06:50
phenny diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'FFFFF'.
diakopter .u FFFFFF
phenny diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'FFFFFF'.
diakopter .u FFFFFFF
phenny diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'FFFFFFF'.
diakopter jej
phenny diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'FFFFFFFF'.
diakopter .u FFFFFFF 06:52
phenny diakopter: Sorry, no results for 'FFFFFFF'.
diakopter .u 7435
phenny U+7435 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-7435 (琵)
diakopter .u 6435
phenny U+6435 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-6435 (搵)
diakopter .u E435 06:53
phenny U+E435 (No name found)
diakopter .u 4435
phenny U+4435 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-4435 (䐵)
diakopter .u 3435
phenny U+3435 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-3435 (㐵)
diakopter .u 2435
phenny U+2435 (No name found)
diakopter sigh.
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sjohnson hi 07:58
08:09 Su-Shee joined
Su-Shee good morning 08:10
sjohnson hello! 08:11
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sjohnson OT question: anyone C experts here? 08:41
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lisppaste3 tmosx pasted "directory check" at paste.lisp.org/display/94174 10:30
tmosx Hello everybody: i don't know if this room is for helping or not. i tried to write to #perl room and i couldn't. the following couple lines in the link above are giving me a headache. 10:32
basically. i'm trying to check if a subdirectory is existing in my current directory or not. if it exists then i will write an image in that subdirectory. ( note: i'm using Image Magick ) 10:33
any help would be appreciated.
huf you're checking if it exists in /
but mkdir-ing it in your current dir 10:34
but then opening it in /. but then passing $file wrong to the Write method
and anyway, this is a channel for perl6, not perl5.
you should be able to join #perl, altho you may need to ident with freenode
oh, and dont use the 2-arg form of open 10:35
tmosx i tried to do that .. but it still gave me an error message telling me that i can't write to the group.
oh, i see. thank you very much. i'll probably try to write #perl one more time. 10:36
thanks huf!
huf cheers 10:37
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lichtkind Tene: thanks 11:02
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lichtkind when got rakudo birth 2,5 jears ago? 12:12
ruoso very happy with the latest spec changes... 12:16
at the same time I don't like the "magical return" from the iterator, the way it is described now is much more sane... 12:17
since it's just an unthrown exception
(which might be thrown if "use fatal" is in effect)
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ruoso and the simplification of the latest change (r29602) makes a very good simplification... 12:19
moritz_ I'm a bit confused by @(1,2 Z 3,4) # ((1,3),(2,4)) 12:23
does that mean that for 1, 2 Z 3, 4 -> $a { say 1 }; produces only two lines?
or does the iteration over (1, 3), (2, 4) flatten it?
sjohnson ruoso: do you code in K&R / C99 c, for SMOP? 12:24
colomon sjohnson: what's your C question? I might be able to help...
ruoso sjohnson, I think there's nothing exoterical in SMOP code... maybe some of the modules require something special... 12:25
moritz_, signature binding flattens...
(unless the signature says otherwise) 12:26
sjohnson colomon: i'm about to learn C, and i keep seeing all these new standards 12:28
i have the K&R C book, but it almost looks as though i should learn the newest standard, and ignore K&R. it is confusing 12:29
ruoso in the end, I keep with whatever gcc compiles
sjohnson there's C99 and C1X that i worry about
colomon sjohnson: ah, interesting question. as far as I know, K&R is terribly out of date. But it is considered a classic. 12:30
ruoso since gcc is cross-platform and free software, I usually consider it the standard I follow
vorner sjohnson: if you learn ANSI C or C99, the C1X will probably just add new nice features 12:32
and you can test C99 right away, but the new one won't be implemented by now yet, I guess (not that I would keep a close look)
colomon sjohnson: I wouldn't worry much about C99 or C1X, they just tweak details without changing the core of the language at all.
like going from Perl 5.6 to Perl 5.8 or so.
not at all like going from Perl 5.6 to Perl 6. :) 12:33
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vorner but C99 just added some details to ANSI C (like better initializers, macros with arbitrary number of parameters) 12:33
colomon sjohnson: unfortunately, I'm not much good for recommending a book: I learned C about 21 years ago, and don't have the faintest memory of what text I used to do it. (Actually, I don't remember learning it at all, I just remember coding some C to get the tape punch hardware to run, and then learning C++ the weekend I came back to the dorm.) 12:35
sjohnson vorner: how does one learn C99? just learn K&R C, and then learn the differences? or start from C99 somehow 12:36
colomon: thanks anyway. do you prefer C++?
colomon sjohnson: Yes. Wildly so, actually.
sjohnson is the STL a good thing? 12:37
colomon sjohnson: yes. It's still terribly clumsy compared to, say, Perl arrays and hashes, but it's lightyears beyond programming in C. 12:38
vorner sjohnson: Hm, don't know. I started by learning from a czech textbook of ansi-C, using it for some time, then learning some of the fancy things of C99 on the university from friends 12:39
sjohnson this is an intersting topic of discussion
vorner colomon: But C++ is inconsistent at places, STL is pain in the ass to debug, and if you learn C and preprocessor well enough, can be easilly got rid of. 12:40
sjohnson ruoso: please to join the convo 12:41
colomon vorner: IMO you're verging on insanity there.
sjohnson easy now. i know some people who prefer C over the C++ STL 12:42
the author of uTorrent being one of them
colomon something like std::map packs a fantastic amount of sophisticated tech into a (relatively) easy to learn package.
vorner colomon: well, I tried it. Generics in C preprocessor aren't really that hard to do. But anyway, C is for low-level or power computing, C++ adds things that do not belong there (like exceptions to language without GC) 12:43
moritz_ if you show me how the compile-time folding and SSE vectorization of the "eigen" library in C, I might even believe that it works 12:44
*works in C
sjohnson moritz_: what is your preference?
moritz_ sjohnson: the most appropriate tool for the job 12:45
depending on the job, that's often enough Perl
sjohnson moritz_: i've definitely found Perl does 99% of what i need
but i need to do some power-programming for libs for a Clipper compiler
which allows C
.. and curious what your thoughts were 12:47
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sjohnson *puppy dog eyes* 12:48
moritz_ if it allows C, use C
sjohnson but do you like C or C++, for those jobs? 12:49
moritz_ depends on the job
neither "power-programming" nor "for libs for a Clipper compiler" tells me enough to chose a language
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vorner knows both of them and avoids them both if there is a reasonable way 12:50
ruoso I started in C for real some months before I started on SMOP
colomon virtually everything I write that doesn't have to be deliverable to a customer is in Perl. :)
ruoso I had some contact around 98... but never really worked with C 12:51
sjohnson well.. i was more asking about your affection for the languages moritz_. for instance, i LOVE perl, but will use PHP for other tasks, but i dont like PHP... just wondering if you liked / enjoyed either C / C++
ruoso which is quite understandable, since I worked all the time with information systems (where Perl is far a better choice)
moritz_ sjohnson: then I'll tell you that I love Perl. If I can't use Perl, I chose the language that's most appropriate :-) 12:52
sjohnson haha
i think i understand
ruoso can't find a single reason to use PHP
sjohnson either Perl... or drudgery is how i look at it
ruoso: i use it for really simple inline HTML generation...
vorner sjohnson: I like C to play with sometimes, like „how low I can get memory consumption for this task“, or „how fast I can generate first 500 000 000 primes“, but not for real „bigger“ jobs. Most my bigger things are either C++/Qt or bunch of languages put randomly together.
sjohnson i dont quite know how to do it in Perl yet
ruoso sjohnson, template toolkit... or even mason... 12:53
sjohnson ok 12:54
will do some research
ive used the CGI thing before
but i found it a bit tedious 12:55
ruoso ah... that's at least 10 years old
take a look at Catalyst 12:58
sjohnson, that's how I work with web in Perl today
sjohnson interesting 12:59
this is good news
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vorner will have to look at catalyst, all his websites are either mostly staticly generated with few CGI scripts either in perl or sh or in mod_perl 13:02
ruoso thinks merlyn gave the better description for PHP... "PHP: it's like trainning wheels -- without the bike" 13:03
huf describing it is giving it waaaay too much credit 13:04
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sjohnson thanks for the answers everyone 13:08
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kraih_sri sjohnson: search.cpan.org/dist/Mojo/lib/Mojol...us/Lite.pm # also quite fun :) 13:39
(i'm the author of catalyst and mojolicious btw.) 13:43
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Su-Shee kraih_sri: "who is totally working on a perl6 version of it" isn't he? ;) 14:02
kraih_sri like totally 14:03
Su-Shee kraih_sri: which reminds me.. web sockets? 14:04
kraih_sri working flawless
Su-Shee kraih_sri: you are my hero.
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kraih_sri Su-Shee: github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/t...lite_app.t 14:05
Su-Shee I need my webkit running again. 14:07
kraih_sri webkit nightly works quite well, chrome is full of bugs
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Su-Shee I have to fix some compile issue first I don't remember anymore how I fixed it last time. :/ 14:08
ah. now I remember. the perl script. 14:12
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addicted any simple RTP/RSTP client server code pls? 14:25
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 15:15
lichtkind goodmorning pm 15:16
pmichaud: its save to say that rakudo in its current form is 2,5 years old?
pmichaud I don't know that it's easy to peg a start date. The PAST-based version of Rakudo is only 25 months old, though :-) 15:17
there were versions of the perl6-on-parrot compiler before that, but they used a different (and much more primitive) compiler toolkit
colomon2 o/ 15:19
lichtkind pmichaud: yes that was my impression, im currently reading your old posts from 3 years ago :)
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lichtkind pmichaud: what is PAST based i thought NQP based 15:31
pmichaud yes, nqp-based also 15:32
past was developed in late 2007, along with nqp
(past is the abstract syntax tree representation used in the compiler toolkit)
lichtkind ah 15:33
pmichaud: thanks
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diakopter finally stops deferring the implementation of the operator precedence parser 16:42
colomon diakopter++ # JFDI :) 16:47
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diakopter :) 16:53
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lichtkind who was the guy who set up the perl 6 wiki? 20:18
diakopter there are several perl 6 wikis
lichtkind i mean the perlfoundation one 20:19
diakopter: oh hi you back, thanks for your time 2 days ago
diakopter: even if still have some question about sprixel left 20:20
diakopter yw
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pmurias diakopter: sprixel is once again in C#? 20:22
lichtkind Tene: did i disturb you yesterday
Tene lichtkind: no, not at all. If you disturbed me, I just wouldn't talk to you. :) 20:23
lichtkind Tene: thatswhy i ask, no answer would be also answer :)
diakopter pmurias: yes; I'm porting yet agin 20:24
Tene lichtkind: Please feel free to ask me questions whenever you like. If I'm otherwise busy, I'll just ignore you.
lichtkind Tene: excellent 20:25
pmurias diakopter: you are switching between two code bases or rewriting from scratch 20:27
diakopter pmurias: rewriting (hand translating) each time 20:28
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lichtkind who was the guy who set up the tpf perl 6 wiki? 21:50
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Khisanth lichtkind: probably the person listed at revision 2 of www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....ame=perl_6 :) 22:21
pugs_svn r29603 | pmurias++ | [mildew] -Cssa prints out a graph of the blocks 22:22
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lichtkind Khisanth: thanks i think his nick is petdance 22:23
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Khisanth lichtkind: he goes by alester now 22:23
alester is register, petdance is not 22:24
lichtkind Khisanth: what alester? 22:29
Khisanth that is the nick he uses
he hasn't used petdance for a while
lichtkind ah 22:30
i wrote to his perlbuzz adress anyway :)
Khisanth on irc.perl.org he is just Andy
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