»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, alpha:, pugs:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by lichtkind on 5 March 2010.
arnsholt And he's perfectly right, of course 00:01
The sciences tend to underestimate the value of the humanities, and vice versa
sundar Is the latest Rakudo source always supposed to build against the latest Parrot source? Right now it appears it doesn't. 00:08
colomon sundar: nope 00:09
arnsholt No, there's a file in build/ that says which version it uses
colomon build/PARROT_REVISION
sundar Oh oh! Should I now svn up to the older revision and build parrot again then? 00:12
pugssvn r30362 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Add real-bridge tests for cis and unpolar. 00:14
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dalek kudo: c99eeb3 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Tweak the Any versions of unpolar and cis, define Real versions of the same.
 00:16
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jnthn ffs, the Swedish railways are even worse than the British ones. :-/ 00:37
arnsholt You should try the Norwegian ones. They've been massively underfunded for at least two decades now >.< 00:43
jnthn In two years of living in Slovakia, the train between Bratrislava and Wien was late *once*. 00:44
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arnsholt Hmm. Is it possible to enable some sort of trace mode in NQP? 00:45
jnthn arnsholt: Yeah 00:46
<?DEBUG> token enables
And <DEBUG(0)> disables
arnsholt Mmmm. Tasty recursion. 00:47
colomon jnthn: why does one of those have a ? and the other not? 00:49
jnthn colomon: Actutally the first works fine without the ? 00:50
colomon <DEBUG> and <DEBUG(0)>. I might be able to remember that. :) 00:52
I've noticed perlcabal still isn't properly updating half of the spec.
jnthn <DEBUG> is the same as <DEBUG(1)> fwiw 00:54
It's kinda like method DEBUG($on = 1) { .... }
colomon jnthn: I guessed that. :)
jnthn Yes, pmichaud++ tends to get stuff as you'd expect it. :-) 00:55
colomon pmichaud++
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jnthn grrr...9 hours until Moscow flight :-/ 00:56
jnthn would maybe believe that the train delay was an unfortunate unusual occurence, apart from half the trains he takes here are also late. 00:58
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arnsholt Haha! 01:03
Tentative liftoff for my parser ^^ 01:04
colomon \o/
jnthn sleep, provided my hotel in Moscow has internet access of some kind, then hopefully catch you all tomorrow. :-)
shyam_iyer ++ 01:05
++;
colomon jnthn: o/
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sundar the current rakudo source doesn't build here against the build/PARROT_REVISION mentioned.. is this a known issue? 01:12
arnsholt Are you using perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot, or something else?
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sundar I have an inside-out setup, with rakudo in runtime/parrot/languages/ 01:13
arnsholt Hmm. Something isn't working 01:14
arnsholt goes to write a blog post instead
sundar The error I get is: "Method 'postcircumfix:<[ ]>' not found for invocant of class 'Undef'" 01:15
arnsholt Never tried the inside-out thing before. Try checking out Rakudo on it's own and do --gen-parrot perhaps? 01:16
sundar Ok, trying that now. Though, if that works, it would be a strange issue.. 01:19
colomon rakudo: say (4/3).floor 01:31
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤»
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lue The only bad thing about watching Doctor Who is 1) That beat is stuck in my head (1,2,3,4) 2) I can't wait until Apr. 17 03:08
(oh, and hai) 03:09
rakudo: multi sub circumfix:<µ µ>($a,$b) { say "$a and $b";}; µ 4,7 µ 03:11
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤ in file 'EVAL_1' line 58␤Confused at line 11, near "\x{b5} 4,7 \x{b5}"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
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plobsing is this the right place to submit patches for rakudo? 03:57
nopaste.snit.ch/20240 03:58
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mathw Morning 07:27
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masak oh hai, #perl6 08:03
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mathw oh hai, masak 08:04
masak rolls eyes in non-surprised amusement at the underscores-vs-hyphens discussion on p6l :)
snarkyboojum hi masak o/ 08:13
mathw it is of course absolutely ridiculous
except for the point that the setting should probably use one or t'other
masak snarkyboojum: \o 08:14
mathw: trust p6l to take any absolutely straightforward, already settled point, and elaborate it at great length.
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mathw of course 08:19
isn't that what it's for? 08:20
diakopter ____________________
perlesque ftw 08:21
sleep&
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masak sundar_: hi! 08:28
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sundar hi masak! 08:29
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masak sundar: how goes the p6 exploration? 08:31
sundar masak: started a program, only to realize I didn't even know the proper way to write loops. :) So started reading S04. Also searching for some digestible presentations (I like learning via presentations), though most seem to be outdated. 08:36
masak sundar: jnthn.net/articles.shtml 08:37
rakudo: for 1..10 -> $i { say 'number ', $i }
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«number 1␤number 2␤number 3␤number 4␤number 5␤number 6␤number 7␤number 8␤number 9␤number 10␤»
masak rakudo: my $i = 1000; while $i >= 500 { say $i -= 100 } 08:38
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«900␤800␤700␤600␤500␤400␤»
sundar wow! thanks a lot! is that linked anywhwere from perlfoundation.org?
masak rakudo: my $i = 1000; loop { say $i -= 100 }
p6eval rakudo c99eeb:
..OUTPUT«900␤800␤700␤600␤500␤400␤300␤200␤100␤0␤-100␤-200␤-300␤-400␤-500␤-600␤-700␤-800␤-900␤-1000␤-1100␤-1200␤-1300␤-1400␤-1500␤-1600␤-1700␤-1800␤-1900␤-2000␤-2100␤-2200␤-2300␤-2400␤-2500␤-2600␤-2700␤-2800␤-2900␤-3000␤-3100␤-3200␤-3300␤-3400␤-3500␤-3600␤-3700␤-3800␤-3900␤-4000␤-4100␤-4200␤-…
masak sundar: good question. most of our links nowadays are from perl6.org 08:39
but I doubt it's even there.
also, perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-5-to-6/
rakudo: my $i = 5; repeat { say $i } while $i-- 08:42
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«5␤4␤3␤2␤1␤0␤»
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sundar masak: I've read through part of the perlgeek tutorial, but got several small doubts.. Felt the need for some searchable reference. Didn't have much luck with the Google search on Synopses.. 08:47
masak the best cure for doubts is a recent executable and a lot of one-liners :) 08:48
also helps to discuss things here on-channel.
er, sorry, I mean on_channel, of course :P
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sundar let's-go-the-lispy-way.. :) 08:50
masak to be fair, I did reflect on the underscores being ported over from CPAN's DateTime, and how they didn't really befit a module in Perl 6 core... 08:51
sundar masak: you had a feeling hyphens were the way to go in Perl 6 then itself? 08:53
masak I have an ongoing feeling that it's not my call. :) 08:54
I personally use hyphens quite a lot in my code, but when I'm writing spec I have a slightly different hat on. 08:55
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sundar masak: how can you do that? as a developer, you're supposed to feel your conventions are the One True Way. ;) 08:58
masak :)
well, of course they are. the problem is that there are so many One True Ways... 08:59
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sundar masak: ah, you're mindful of the other True Ways. It must be a good hat that you have. :) 09:02
masak sundar: I try to read other people's code sometimes. what bugs me is not when people have conventions differing from mine, but when people have no conventions. 09:03
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sundar masak: I understand.. if it compiles and sort of does what it's supposed to, it's good code for many. :) the "code is for people to read" SICP quote should be pasted on every programmer's desk. 09:07
moritz_ good morning
masak moritz_: \o
sundar moritz_: good morning (though it's afternoon here)
moritz_: I remember you too have an inside-out rakudo-inside-parrot setup. Does the current rakudo build fine for you? 09:10
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moritz_ sundar: I don't 09:11
I did talk about it though :-)
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masak sundar: I see the "if it works, it's good code" mentality a lot at work. basically, those of us who care about how the code actually *looks* are perceived as very picky in comparison. :) 09:12
sundar masak: yes.. people hated it when their code came to me for review.. they'd think having incomprehensible code is a 'trivial problem' and shouldn't delay a commit. :) 09:14
masak exactly. 09:15
might be there's some connection here to TDD too. 09:16
when you can look at a diff and say, 'yup, this is a very small piece of code, and all it does is make that test over there pass', things feel kinda good. 09:17
sundar moritz_: :( now I'll probably never know if I screwed up something or found some weird bug! 09:18
masak oh, and it's four minutes after your last such commit, and three minutes before the next one :)
sundar: I have Rakudo inside Parrot.
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masak I'll build now and see if it works. 09:19
sundar masak: TDD is one of those things that are good when applied properly, but are hard to consistently do that.. 09:20
masak yes, it's not for every kind of task.
when you have something like a input/output filter, it's pretty much ideal, though. 09:21
and a lot of things are that. a compiler is that.
moritz_ finds that Date modules are very well suited too 09:22
masak moritz_++
moritz_: how's it going?
moritz_ masak: didn't get past the constructor tests last night, went off to play some board games with friends
masak what board games? 09:23
sundar masak: people can (and will) still abuse it in such cases too, and special case things more than they're meant to.. :) 09:24
masak I always special case things if I can get away with it. :)
moritz_ masak: www.catan.com/catan-games/in-space/...arers.html this one (thought the German original)
masak nice. I know Catan. 09:25
not the in-space version, though.
moritz_ it was the first time for me too
masak .oO( or is that 'in_space'? :P )
moritz_ btw Catan was invented about 20km away from where I live :-)
masak ooh 09:26
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sundar thinks parents visiting bachelor rooms unexpectedly are heartless 09:28
I've got to go now (and clean up things), masak, could you tell how the build goes later? 09:29
masak seems fine so far.
it's doing gen/core.pm now.
sundar it fails for me at "/usr/local/bin/parrot perl6.pbc --target=pir --output=Test.pir Test.pm" with "Method 'postcircumfix:<[ ]>' not found for invocant of class 'Undef'" 09:31
moritz_ sundar: did you reconfigure before building?
masak oh, ok.
sundar moritz_: no, should I? Why? 09:32
masak I recognize that error from some of my cheese masterporting.
moritz_ sundar: if you did a 'git pull', chances are that the makefile changed
then you need to run Configure.pl again
sundar moritz_: ah, when I did a configure on rakudo, it said the parrot revision is r45191, though I updated it to the needed 45386 before make-ing. perhaps I need to reconfigure parrot too? 09:36
masak sundar: builds here.
moritz_ sundar: yes
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moritz_ masak: I think you had a very interesting link to date calc algorithms back in the days... do you happen to still know it? 09:38
masak might have been mberends++' interesting link. 09:39
www.tondering.dk/claus/calendar.html
sundar masak: ok, thanks... I'm trying here now.
masak or perhaps www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/daycount.htm 09:40
moritz_: both of those are from the Pod of the alpha Temporal.
mberends++ # always good Pod
walk &
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sundar how do I exit a perl6 REPL? 09:55
exit does nothing, quit makes it "Confused".. 09:56
09:56 ive left
snarkyboojum ctrl-c :) 09:56
moritz_ Ctrl+D
sundar Ok, is supporting exit or quit in the plan? 09:57
It seems quit is recognized as something special, given it didn't say "Could not find sub &quit" like it does for other random words...
anything that starts with 'q' makes it confused instead of getting treated as a sub call... 09:59
moritz_ ah 10:00
quote parsing fail
rakudo: qfoo
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "qfoo"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
moritz_ rakudo: afoo
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &afoo␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
moritz_ that's a bug
moritz_ submits
hm
std: qfoo
p6eval std 30362: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'qfoo' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 108m␤»
sundar \o/ I finally found a genuine bug! :) 10:01
moritz_ sundar++
sundar moritz_: thanks.. :) also: any of "exit", "e", or "q" returns to the prompt without doing anything or invoking an error.. 10:03
moritz_ rakudo: exit; say "foo" 10:04
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: ( no output )
moritz_ but I remember there's a ticket for this one
rakudo: say e
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«2.71828182845905␤»
moritz_ that's fine
rakudo: say q
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say q"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
moritz_ rakudo: q
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "q"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
sundar oh, e is an inbuilt constant? without use-ing any scientific or math module? is that a good thing? 10:05
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moritz_ for some it is, for others it's not 10:08
sorear e is in the setting 10:10
so it doesn't cause many problems if you don't use it 10:11
the setting is treated as an outer lexical scope, so if you define your own e (or any other predefined name), it'll just shadow the existing one, no problems
who invented the setting/circumlude system?
they need a ++ 10:12
moritz_ TimToady, I think :-)
sundar "e = 4" invokes a "Cannot assign to readonly value" error though...
moritz_ sundar: and that's a good thing :-)
sorear sundar: x = 2 is not how you define values in Perl6 10:13
rakudo: height = 66 10:14
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &height␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
sundar ah, dang! even after so many years of Perl I do this.. sorry.. :)
sorear rakudo: constant e = 101; say e
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &constant␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
sorear rakudo: my constant e = 101; say e
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Malformed my at line 11, near "constant e"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
sorear apparently I don't remember the correct syntax either 10:15
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jaffa4 !seen diakopter 10:24
moritz_ alpha: constant e = 101; say e
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«invoke() not implemented in class 'Integer'␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
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moritz_ sorear: constant is just NYI in rakudo master 10:24
sorear ah 10:32
what about alpha?
is it broken there too?
jaffa4 !whatis alpha
moritz_ alpha: constant $x = 5; say $x
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«5␤»
moritz_ alpha: constant $x = 5; $x = 7;
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to readonly variable.␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
moritz_ alpha: constant a = 5; say a
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«5␤»
jaffa4 hi
what is alpha? 10:33
moritz_ sorear: in alpha it only conflicted with predefined routines
sorear jaffa4: alpha is 2010/02 rakudo
er, /01
in /02 we rewrote rakudo to take advantage of new features in the compiler kit, like grammars
moritz_ rakudo: say 5 div 2
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«2␤»
sorear there has been a certain amount of regression 10:34
jaffa4 rakudo : g:/f/;
rakudo: g:/f/;
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "g:/f/;"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
sorear Does g:/f/; mean anything? 10:35
moritz_ std: g:/f/;
p6eval std 30362: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at /tmp/Nsxjnenl7e line 1:␤------> g:⏏/f/;␤ expecting any of:␤ coloncircumfix␤ signature␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'g' used at line 1␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 110m␤»
jaffa4 no
I do not know now
rakudo: m:g/erer/
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "m:g/erer/"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
jaffa4 std: m:g/erer/ 10:36
p6eval std 30362: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 108m␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my $x = rx { 1 2 3 } 10:53
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 11␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤»
moritz_ std: my $x = rx { 1 2 3 }
p6eval std 30362: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 110m␤» 10:54
moritz_ rakudo: rx { }
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &rx␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my $x = rx{ 1 2 3 } 10:55
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<{ }>, couldn't find final '}' at line 11␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤»
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colomon broke infix:<==> on his local copy of Rakudo. :( 11:00
moritz_ hands colomon and non-broken infix:<==> from the cool branch 11:01
colomon how is cool coming? 11:02
moritz_ ready for review/merge
colomon sweet!
\o/
moritz_ something's wrong with multi methods called new() in master 11:04
colomon moritz_: I understand Tuesday is going to be the day to bug jnthn++. ;) 11:05
rakudo: say Bool ~~ Real 11:06
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤»
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colomon Not sure how Bool got to be Real. (Even though it might well be in the spec that way.) 11:08
moritz_ rakudo: say Int ~~ Real
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz_ that's how it got that way :-)
colomon I know Bool is Int in theory; I don't see how it is in practice, however. 11:09
boolproto = p6meta.'new_class'('Bool', 'parent'=>'parrot;Boolean Any', 'does_role'=>abstraction)
no Int in there.
moritz_ afaict Bool is an evil hack in master :-)
rakudo: say Bool ~~ Real
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤»
sorear what, we aren't going to use #t and #f? 11:10
moritz_ #w, #t, #f? :-)
colomon afk for a minute or two...
moritz_ github.com/moritz/Date btw
still in early stages
the interesting stuff is all NYI
snarkyboojum moritz_++, looks cool :) 11:15
I like how self-documenting well written test suites are 11:16
moritz_ rakudo: say 55257 % 7
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«6␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say (55257 + 3) % 7 11:17
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«2␤»
snarkyboojum is this a Date::Simple-ish p6 port?
moritz_ yes
snarkyboojum ah
moritz_ very much inspired by Date::Simple - I even stole most of their test suite :-)
snarkyboojum reads the comment for the repo ;)
very nifty :) 11:18
moritz_ (and wrote an email to ask them if they grant me permission to redistribute the test under AL2)
snarkyboojum awesome
moritz_ implemented day of week :-) 11:24
colomon rakudo: my $a = Bool::True; say $a.Num 11:37
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Bool'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
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colomon starts to hate Bool 11:37
moritz_ rakudo: say 3 >> 2 11:39
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p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 11, near "2"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤» 11:39
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sundar What is ~> supposed to do? Is it NYI? 11:43
moritz_ it's supposed to be bit shift on a string 11:44
rakudo: say '!a' ~> 1
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say '!a' ~"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
colomon whoops.
dalek kudo: 9406f55 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/ (3 files):
Define Real versions of ceiling, floor, truncate, and round. Plus infix:<+>, infix:</>, and infix:<==>. Tweak Any versions, Real versions.
colomon just pushed by accident, and it will break things. sigh
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colomon okay, pushed a patch for the known problem.... 11:45
moritz_ in case of doubt, git revert :-) 11:46
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colomon well, it's Sunday morning. hopefully I can spectest and fix any problems before they actually bother someone. 11:48
pmurias ruoso: hi
colomon *any remaining problems
pmurias if i want to reduce the time mildew's test suit takes what are the options? 11:49
dalek kudo: ae2e81b | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Bool.pm:
Add Bool.Bridge, because Bool somehow manages to be an Int (and do Real) without having Int's methods.
 11:50
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sundar How do I say "for x to y in steps of z {do this}"? 12:04
moritz_ for $x, *+$z ... $y { do this } 12:05
colomon moritz_++
sorear rakudo: for 1, 3 .. 21 { .say} 12:06
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤»
sorear rakudo: for 1, 3, 9 .. 81 { .say}
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤3␤9␤10␤11␤12␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤26␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39␤40␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤52␤53␤54␤55␤56␤57␤58␤59␤60␤61␤62␤63␤64␤65␤66␤67␤68␤69␤70␤71␤72␤73␤74␤75␤76␤77␤78␤79␤80␤81␤»
sorear ok not quite fully working yet
sundar sorear: pattern detection? :)
sorear sundar: it's specced to autodetect arithmetic and geometric series
colomon fully working, you left out a . 12:07
rakudo: for 1, 3, 9 ... 81 { .say
sorear rakudo: for 1, 3, 9 ... 81 { .say}
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 11␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤»
rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤3␤9␤27␤81␤»
colomon (okay, not really fully working, but you haven't found the fail cases yet.)
sundar wow! That is cool. 12:08
colomon rakudo: for 1, *+2 ... 21{ .say } 12:09
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Missing block at line 11, near ""␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
sorear rakudo: ( 1, 1, { $^a + $^b} ... ).batch(20).say
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "( 1, 1, { "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
colomon rakudo: for 1, *+2 ... 21 { .say }
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤3␤5␤7␤9␤11␤13␤15␤17␤19␤21␤»
sorear rakudo: ( 1, 1, { $^a + $^b } ... * ).batch(20).say 12:10
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«11235813213455891442333776109871597258441816765␤»
colomon rakduo: for 1, 1, *+* ... 100 { .say }
sorear rakudo: ( 1, 1, { $^a + $^b } ... * ).batch(20).join(", ").say
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987, 1597, 2584, 4181, 6765␤»
12:11 M_o_C left
colomon rakudo: for 1, 1, *+* ... 100 { .say } 12:12
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤1␤2␤3␤5␤8␤13␤21␤34␤55␤89␤»
wknight8111 nice
colomon yeah, it works better when I spell rakudo correctly. :) 12:13
sundar rakudo: for 0, 1, *+* ... 100 { .say } 12:14
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤1␤1␤2␤3␤5␤8␤13␤21␤34␤55␤89␤»
12:14 ruoso left
colomon spectest passed! \o/ 12:14
sundar Why did it change the first 0 to 1?
colomon good question. 12:15
snarkyboojum rakudo: .say for 1, 1, *+* ... 100 12:16
p6eval rakudo c99eeb: OUTPUT«1␤1␤2␤3␤5␤8␤13␤21␤34␤55␤89␤»
colomon where's masakbot when you need him? 12:17
sorear rakudo: ( 2, -> *@sofar { (grep { $_ !% none(@sofar) } (@sofar[*-1] ... *))[0] } ... * ).batch(20).join(", ").say 12:18
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 11␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤»
sorear rakudo: ( 2, -> *@sofar { (@sofar[*-1] ... *).first({ $^a !% none(@sofar) }) } ... * ).batch(20).join(", ").say 12:20
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: ( no output ) 12:21
sorear not lazy enough?
sundar rakudo: for -1, 3, *+* ... 100 { .say }
wknight8111 what is that line supposed to do?
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«3␤3␤2␤5␤7␤12␤19␤31␤50␤81␤»
sorear wknight8111: sieve
generates an infinite list of prime numbers 12:22
moritz_ rakudo: sub f(*@sofar) { my $last = @sofar.pop; $last !%none(@sofar) }; say ~(2, &f ... *).batch(5) 12:23
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«2 0 0 0 0␤»
sundar what all can possibly appear in place of *+* in the for statement above? none of -, * or +| seem to work. is it a special case that works with + alone? 12:25
snarkyboojum any infix op I would have thought 12:26
sundar rakudo: for 3, 2, *-* ... 0 { .say } 12:29
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«Method 'Num' not found for invocant of class 'Block'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Mu;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤»
wknight8111 jnthn: ping 12:31
sundar snarkyboojum: Is this a bug then? 12:32
snarkyboojum sundar: no idea :) 12:34
sundar snarkyboojum: :) What should I do now? leave a message to masak or someone, or submit a bug, or leave it in these IRC logs hoping someone would dig it out? 12:36
snarkyboojum well masak++ seems to diligently trawl through the backlogs and submit bugs he finds, but I'm not sure it's polite to rely on that :) 12:37
moritz_ it's a known bug 12:38
snarkyboojum there you go :)
moritz_ Whatever currying is not yet implemented in master, except for some common special cases
12:43 isBEKaml joined
colomon what moritz_++ said. 12:45
to be slightly more precise, whatever currying is supposed to be a general thing which works with all operators. 12:46
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colomon we don't have that yet, but I implemented some of the common cases as special cases. 12:46
I think right now we have *+*, *+n, and *-n
12:47 Kovensky joined 13:10 nsh joined 13:17 iblechbot left 13:25 sundar left 13:39 am0c left 13:50 _jaldhar joined 13:57 Guest94973 left 14:01 pmurias left 14:25 pmurias joined 14:26 _Dot_ joined
_Dot_ hey there. what big improvements gonna have perl6? 14:27
moritz_ lots :-)
vastly improved regexes and grammars
_Dot_ in that case, what are the most important?
oh, kk
moritz_ a language designed for extensibility
_Dot_ no improvement in oop? :( 14:28
moritz_ sure
_Dot_ oh, kk
moritz_ a very solid default object system, and the ability to change the object system via a meta object protocal
_Dot_ cause current oop isn't the most friendly
moritz_ *protocol
_Dot_ i see 14:29
moritz_ rakudo: class Hello { has $.name; method greet { say "Hello, $.name } }; Hello.new(:name<_Dot_>).greet
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 11␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤»
moritz_ rakudo: class Hello { has $.name; method greet { say "Hello, $.name" } }; Hello.new(:name<_Dot_>).greet
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«Hello, _Dot_␤»
moritz_ better :-)
_Dot_ well, it resembles more common oop languages :> 14:30
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moritz_ yes 14:32
Perl 5 was too bare bones
unless you use some nice modules for OO, like Moose
_Dot_ perl6 will be released soon? 14:33
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moritz_ yes, christmas :-) 14:34
there will be a big release in May or June
usable, but not yet finished
_Dot_ and cpan compatibility? 14:36
moritz_ well, sorear is working on bridge between Perl 5 and parrot 14:37
_Dot_ i see
moritz_ so there's a chance of using Perl 5 modules from Perl 6
_Dot_ i hope perl popularity raises with perl 6 14:38
moritz_ hopes so too
_Dot_: are you interested in helping us with Perl 6? 14:39
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_Dot_ i'm not that good at programming :\ 14:39
just starting
moritz_ well, there are other things that need doing
_Dot_ like what?
moritz_ like keeping websites up to date, organizing conferences or hackathons, try to organize funding... 14:40
_Dot_ there's any site with drafts, just to see what kind of "jobs" you have
14:40 molaf left
_Dot_ ? 14:40
moritz_ not really :( 14:41
I've been long planning to write such a web site, but other things always seemed to be either more urgent or more fun
_Dot_ i would like to help you hacking perl, but i lack practice on programming :\ 14:42
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_Dot_ btw, what sites are those to keep up to date? 14:43
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moritz_ <perl6.org/>, <www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index....erl_6>, <dev.perl.org/perl6/> just to name the three most important ones 14:44
jaffa4 !seen diakopter
14:44 ruoso left
_Dot_ with who i have to talk to have more info? 14:48
moritz_ _Dot_: more info about what? 14:49
_Dot_ about the sites updating
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moritz_ raises hand 14:50
_Dot_ xD
i can't give you an answer right now, but i plan to spare time for the sake of open source o.O/
moritz_ that's cool
feel free to raise your voide here at any time 14:51
_Dot_ kk
also that would be nice at my curriculum :P
*in
hmmm, maintenance of those sites doesn't look a time consumer 14:54
moritz_ right
you just have to follow the Perl 6 blogs, and see what changes inthe Perl 6 world 14:55
and then from time to time you need to go over the sites, and see if anything is worth updating
_Dot_ i see... that looks interesting 14:56
in terms of developing itself, there is space for a noob eager for learning more? :P 14:58
moritz_ there is 15:01
problem is, there is not very much introductory material for learning Perl 6
for example there's a book being written at <github.com/perl6/book/>, but it targets people with some programming experience in other languages 15:02
_Dot_ i know some perl 5, c/c++, java and a bit of python 15:03
moritz_ well, that's a good start
if you know perl 5, this might help you too: perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6
(disclaimer: I wrote it) 15:04
_Dot_ what development i would be performing?
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moritz_ for example modules 15:05
or built-in functions
_Dot_ sounds cool
well, actually i know a lot of perl 5
jaffa4 built-in functions?
Is some of them not implemented?
is=are 15:06
moritz_ yes
_Dot_ i read Learning Perl, Beginning Perl and currently i'm reading Extreme Perl
jaffa4 which ones?
isBEKaml moritz_: This christmas? I remember Larry quoted something like "Perl6 will be released on Christmas. I won't tell the year..." or something like it. xD 15:08
_Dot_ xD
moritz_ isBEKaml: that's still true :-)
[particle] and once perl 6 is released, every day will be christmas. 15:09
audreyt++
moritz_ jaffa4: for example Str.sameaccent
isBEKaml [particle]: true that. :)
_Dot_ so, Perl 6 will not be released 12/25/2010? xD
moritz_ _Dot_: nobody really knows
isBEKaml _Dot_: This is like any other opensource project. It'll be released when it's good. =) 15:11
_Dot_ open source ftw oO/ no more m$ or crapple
sundar isBEKaml: small correction, "It'll be released when we decide it's 'good enough'" :) 15:12
isBEKaml :)
_Dot_ heh 15:13
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_Dot_ if you want a laboral contribution from me, just ask :) 15:28
jaffa4 moritz_: I wonder what does that do? 15:31
moritz_ jaffa4: don't wonder, look at the specs 15:33
rakudo: run('uptime') 15:34
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT« 15:19:07 up 179 days, 54 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.19, 0.21␤»
moritz_ jnthn: uhm, lexical setting broke Safe.pm - any idea what I could do about it? 15:35
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jaffa4 moritz_: reading it, well it is not clear yet. Pity that there are no examples. 15:41
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lue oh hai! 15:45
15:45 dual joined
lue weird, I was under the impression s/// worked... 15:48
rakudo: $_ = "oh hi there"; s/"hi"/"hai"/; say $_ 15:53
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«oh hi there␤»
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lue thinks of a Perl6 implementation written in DNA... 15:57
diakopter doesn't 15:58
_Dot_ a gnewsense living thing? o.o''
lue or maybe a DNA interpreter was written in P6, long ago...
(it would explain why P6 comes naturally to most people)
15:59 _Dot_ left 16:00 p6eval left
lue rakudo: say "I'm still here" 16:00
jaffa4 sprixel: say "hello" 16:01
sprixel: say "hello"; 16:02
lue
.oO(we gather here today, for the loss of a valuable bot. Some say, p6eval was great, better than any bot made by Google, and he...)
diakopter well 16:05
hm
lue
.oO( aw, you can see little dents in the carpet where he used to stand :( )
 16:06
16:06 masak joined, masak left
lue now masak just bounced off the wall! /o\ 16:06
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diakopter rakudo: say "I'm still here" 16:14
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«I'm still here␤»
lue :D 16:16
#61980 is interesting. Is it working for me because I have ICU, or because it just works?
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lue afk 16:19
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masak lambda, grettingscamels. 17:07
s/ett/eet/
moritz_ \o/ 17:08
masak learned a new wavie from _Dot_: o.O/
sort of astonished and greeting-y at the same time. :)
moritz_ btw I've mostly implemented the Date module 17:09
apart from overloading operators it's 90% done 17:10
and the operators are also LHF, once a certain rakudobug is fixed
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masak moritz_++ 17:11
moritz_: oh btw, you asked about the status of the Web.pm grant the other day. it is this: we've done 19 weeks out of a planned 20. we're unable to contact our grants manager. next step I think is to contact someone in TPF. 17:13
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lue rakudo: $_ = "y oh hi"; s/'hi'/'hai'/; say $_ 17:13
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«y oh hi␤» 17:14
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lue I was truly under the impression s/// worked (am I doing something wrong?) 17:16
masak lue: it works.
lue: just not in sink context.
rakudo: my $a = 'y oh hi'; $a ~~ s/hi/hai/; say $a
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«y oh hai␤» 17:17
lue ( and here I though #61980 was ready to close :) )
rakudo: my $a = 'y oh hi'; $a ~~ tr/hi/hai/; say $a
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "$a ~~ tr/h"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
lue *cough* wrong bug number
#62064 17:18
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masak laughs about cpedia's take on Perl 6 and related topics 17:22
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lue looks up cpedia 17:22
17:22 _jaldhar left
masak it's on cpedia.com 17:23
I'd describe it as a Wikipedia written by blind robots. it's made by automated aggregation of various web content.
17:24 payload left
lue I'm remembering my idea of placing the spec on wikibooks, but an actual programming book would be more useful :) 17:25
masak yes. please don't fork the spec to wikibooks :P
also, there's also a Perl 6 book on wikibooks.
s:2nd/also/already/
lue (any of you Phoenix Wright fans, cpedia has a very interesting introduction to the article on Damon Gant) 17:26
masak: do you happen to know of a pronoun describing a hash-like structure? (for %_ of course) 17:28
(I have currently resorted to either finding such a pronoun in another language or making a new word) 17:30
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lue thinks of having two #rs meetings in one day, for those who can't make 19:00 UTC. Not sure how that would work, though. 17:49
masak well, the original purpose of a meeting is to collect everyone's thoughts, so... 17:51
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lue I would love to contribute, but Tuesday at 11/12 my time (depending on DST) is when I'm in class :( 17:52
And I don't want to suggest taking #rs away from people who are only around at that time of day. 17:53
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lue [ isn't i18n fun? :) ] 17:54
masak .oO( of all people, I'd expect lue to have very little problems with things colliding in time )
lue when you have a 50 minute battery on your laptop... 17:56
even if I brought my laptop with me, it wouldn't last the whole class :/ 17:57
.oO(it, them... doi. hets? tren? grrr)
 17:58
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lue
.oO(I could buy a new laptop battery, or a bunch of Li-Ion batteries and perform an exercise in soldering...)
 18:03
_iff_ i were to have a blog added to the aggregator, would it end up showing every post I make, or automagically just the P6 ones? 18:05
masak which aggregator? 18:08
Planet Perl 6? 18:09
lue yes (whichever is the one people are always referring to)
masak people are sometimes referring to Iron Man as well. 18:10
but ISTR that Planet Perl 6 mirrors everything.
lue .oO[ $_'s annoying, how we can name @_ (@_ being various symbols in P6), except for %_ :( ] 18:13
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lue afk ( while considering what to call %_ :) ) 18:20
masak rakudo: class A { method foo {} }; say A.can("foo").WHAT 18:28
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«Method 'WHAT' not found for invocant of class 'P6Invocation'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
masak o.O
masak submits rakudobug
slavik mason is awesome :) it should get ported to perl6 :D 18:30
diakopter ooo; rakudo has a P6Invocation class; interesting
18:33 colomon left
masak what's it doing with my .can call? I thought the point of .can was *not* to have to do an invocation to find out if a method exists? :) 18:36
18:37 mberends left
diakopter rakudo: class A { }; say A.can("foo").WHAT 18:38
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
diakopter rakudo: class A { }; say A.can("foo").^methods 18:40
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: ( no output )
diakopter timeout I guess
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masak rakudo: say '!'; class A { }; say A.can("foo").^methods 18:48
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«!␤»
masak seems so.
plobsing who do I poke about getting a patch reviewed and applied? 18:52
moritz_ plobsing: probably jnthn at the moment
more so if it's the one for bind.c
plobsing what hours is he usually on? 18:53
moritz_ typically 12H UTC until midnight UTC or so 18:54
but he's on a trip to Russia (or will be very soon), so things coudl be quite different 18:55
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moritz_ plobsing: anyway, if you block on that patch for your parrot branch, I can apply it - it seems reasonably safe to me, although I don't fully understand the code 19:01
testing it now 19:04
19:05 colomon joined 19:06 sundar left 19:11 nihiliad left, nihiliad joined, rgrau joined 19:12 colomon left 19:14 colomon joined 19:17 mikehh joined 19:19 colomon left 19:20 colomon joined 19:26 frzntoz joined 19:28 pmurias left 19:42 molaf left, molaf joined 19:45 molaf_ joined
moritz_ has blogged: perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/date-module.html 19:45
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masak moritz_++ 19:47
in a bikeshedding-heavy zone like the one we're in now, it's always nice to see actual, working code. 19:56
diakopter helped build an actual bikeshed, 13 years ago. 19:57
masak what color was it? 19:58
diakopter wood 20:00
masak sounds like a Solomonian solution to the whole issue.
diakopter yeah. those who want to see it a certain color can just wear tinted glasses 20:01
masak :) 20:02
masak considers mentioning p6l... decides not to... 20:03
colomon moritz_++ 20:04
20:06 masak left 20:13 sundar_ joined
lue hello! (I just met Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson. must be getting serious.) 20:14
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smash_ hello everyone 20:46
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lue hello? 22:06
sorear we're all in #parrot
lue on MAGnet ?
(coming)
lue wishes he knew what was happening at #parrot (the backlogs might help :P) 22:10
plobsing lue: quarterly planning/review meeting 22:11
lue ah ( would explain the draft in here :) ) 22:12
22:14 mberends left
colomon I was playing with my boy and watching the masters. 22:18
*Masters
lue rakudo: my $a = "hi"; say qqx/$a/ 22:23
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«operation not permitted in safe mode␤current instr.: '&die' pc 17293 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:404)␤»
lue ō.o
I get the feeling it's not just a quoting construct, but there's only one mention in the spec, and it's not descriptive... 22:25
colomon rakudo: my $a = "ls"; say qqx/$a/
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«operation not permitted in safe mode␤current instr.: '&die' pc 17293 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:404)␤»
arnsholt is happy 22:26
lue > ./perl6 -e "my $a = 'ls'; say qqx/$a/"
Malformed my at line 1, near "= 'ls'; sa"
arnsholt Starting to write AST classes for Parrotlog ^^ 22:27
lue \o/
now why do I get a malformed my?
rakudo: run("ls") 22:28
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«build␤Configure.pl␤CREDITS␤docs␤dynext␤lib␤LICENSE␤Makefile␤parrot␤parrot_install␤perl6␤perl6.c␤perl6_group.c␤perl6_group.h␤perl6_group.o␤perl6.o␤perl6.pbc␤perl6.pir␤README␤src␤t␤Test.pir␤Test.pm␤tools␤»
snarkyboojum lue: try ./perl6 -e 'my $a = "ls"; say qqx/$a/' 22:31
but yeah, not sure :)
arnsholt rakudo: my $a = 'ls'; say qqx/$a/ 22:32
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«operation not permitted in safe mode␤current instr.: '&die' pc 17293 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:404)␤»
lue snarkyboojum++ 22:36
are there tests for qqx?
22:37 IllvilJa left
lue I have to know; what does LHF mean? 22:41
snarkyboojum lhf = low hanging fruit? 22:42
lue my guess has always been left hand [something] 22:44
rakudo: my Int $x = +'2'
p6eval rakudo ae2e81: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤current instr.: '&die' pc 17293 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:404)␤»
22:44 patrickas joined
arnsholt Something, somewhere, in my grammar is getting passed too many arguments. Is there a good way to figure out where it's happening? 22:47
'Cause "too many positional arguments: 3 passed, 2 expected" is a bit diffuse
lue what is it trying to do? 22:48
arnsholt Parse something, seeing how it's a grammar =) 22:49
m6locks add some debugging say-lines to see what arguments are passed 22:50
lue well, what is it trying to parse :)
C<say>ing things is the simplest form of debugging (but it works quite well) 22:51
arnsholt m6locks: I suppose. But doing that to all the rules in my grammar is not really a very tractable option
m6locks i hear ya
i'm kinda in the same situation as you are 22:52
arnsholt Seeing how there are probably about 200 of them
lue oh, so it's throughout the entire grammar? hm
arnsholt lue: I don't know -where- in the grammar
That's the problem
m6locks lue: how does that C<say> work?
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lue that's just how you seperate a command in the documentation. C<> for commands, L<> for links, and so on. 22:54
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m6locks oh ok 23:02
lue I use it when I don't want to risk ambiguity 23:03
snarkyboojum C<> for code :)
lue thinks of writing syntax highlight files for P6, beginning with Kate, then emacs 23:05
sorear lue: don't, we already have a syntax highlighter for P6 23:07
TimToady wrote it
lue where? 23:09
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sorear src/perl6/std_hilite 23:09
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lue I don't see how one could use that in kate. I can see it as a "highlight-'n'-output", but I meant as in while you're developing 23:11
( unless I completely miss the point of std_hilite :) ) 23:12
sorear you should port std_hilite to work with kate 23:13
the point of std_hilite is that it's std
it parses Perl, correctly
lue hm, porting seems difficult :D . (Kate only needs an XML file, so I'm not too sure how to port it other than writing it on my own like planned) 23:17
the only thing of use (to me) is the css file then.
I can't use it because STD is not in the hilite's path, but it looks like it would produce an intersting image... are there any examples? 23:18
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lue
.oO(defining a list of operators in the kate syntax file could be a pain)
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