»ö« | perl6.org/ | nopaste: paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, alpha:, pugs:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by lichtkind on 5 March 2010.
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TimToady if that doesn't fix it, someone else will have to glare at it 00:01
diakopter I think I get it now.
the compile-time will need to be compiled, itself.
dalek kudo: 683a745 | jonathan++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn on S14-roles/parameterized-mixin.t.
TimToady ==> SFO
&
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lue *cough* 00:15
sorear hmm. somebody summoned me...? 00:16
diakopter heh
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dalek p-rx: 6c707c6 | bacek++ | (3 files):
Implement foo:bar<baz>() sub calls.
 00:58
p-rx: 5142577 | bacek++ | src/stage0/ (4 files):
Bootstrap
 01:04
kudo: f9943a2 | (Martin Berends)++ | src/Perl6/Module/Loader.pm:
[Perl6/Module/Loader.pm] correctly derive pre-compiled .pir filename from both
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pugssvn r31388 | qiuhw++ | [rx.t] correct comments according to my understanding. 01:15
sorear OK
by my reading of the last section of S04
(my) sub foo = BEGIN my &foo := sub; ENTER &foo := &foo.clone(&?BLOCK) 01:16
dalek p-rx: 78a6c1d | bacek++ | (2 files):
Implement dotty version of colonpair named methods
 01:21
p-rx: b6defec | bacek++ | src/stage0/ (3 files):
Bootstrap files
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sorear reads Run# code 04:12
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qmexvos5556 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:43
04:43 xjydqa6557 joined
xjydqa6557 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:43
wv853 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6!
xjydqa6557 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6!
qmexvos5556 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6!
gxps499 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6!
wv853 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6!
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qmexvos5556 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:43
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wv853 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:43
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gxps499 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:43
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TiMBuS well gee im convinced 04:43
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xt9579 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:44
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fbtvueq5868 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:44
xt9579 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6!
fbtvueq5868 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6!
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fqszmx1529 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:44
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fbtvueq5868 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:44
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vwx2027 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:44
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wlhqf3552 Freenode is now FOSSNET! This channel is now at irc.fossnet.info #perl6! 04:44
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lue ow! That's...annoying 05:23
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sorear ow? 05:30
05:30 sorear sets mode: -b ~*!*@*.comcast.net
sorear apparently I screwed up the syntax. jaldhar shouldn't have gotten in 05:30
pragma_ I'm always amazed when I see the old saying "operating system coders have no idea how to set up their e-mail clients" manifested. 05:33
sorear something as big as perl 6 could never exist without specialization 05:34
jaldhar sorear: I'd never join a club that would accept me as a member 05:35
pragma_ Too many funny squiggly characters have you guessing where to put them? 05:36
sorear yes
pragma_ You'd think a language like Perl would have built up your expertise with such symbols! 05:37
sorear also, in the 5+ years I've been on IRC, I've had to set a ban maybe twice
freenode is a *very* friendly place compared to most of the internet 05:38
sorear now reads ECMA-334 "C#"
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lue sorear: the continual stream of Freenode is now FOSSNET!!! 06:00
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TiMBuS rakudo: subset Sadstr of Str where /':('/; multi is-sad(Sadstr $a){ 'he sad'.say }; multi is-sad{ 'he glad'.say }; my Sadstr $a = ":("; is-sad($a); 07:09
p6eval rakudo f9943a: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'is-sad'. Available candidates are:␤:(Str $a)␤:()␤␤ in main program body at line 11:/tmp/3USkusDh1h␤»
TiMBuS rakudo: subset Sadstr of Str where /':('/; multi is-sad(Sadstr $a){ 'he sad'.say }; multi is-sad(Any $a){ 'he glad'.say }; my Sadstr $a = ":("; is-sad($a);
p6eval rakudo f9943a: OUTPUT«he glad␤»
TiMBuS not glad :/ 07:10
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sawyer_ so, i started learning perl6 over the weekend 07:21
i have a few comments, and i'll be doing that in a blog post today 07:22
one thing i have to ask about... camelia?
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sorear a blog post is a great way to get ignored by me. I don't follow random people waiting for them to ask questions 07:33
if you want to get a reply, you should actually send your comments to a forum that the Perl 6 community reads
as opposed to a blog, which I guess is a forum that people in your old community(s) read? 07:34
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sawyer_ sorear, well, i wouldn't be writing this blog post to specifically get ignored by you. it's nothing personal :) 07:34
and i wouldn't be writing it to ask questions, since it's not the appropriate forum for that
it wouldn't include any questions, actually
the one thing i wanted to ask about, i asked. there was a question mark after the word "camelia" :) 07:35
sorear Unless you're secretly really famous, I doubt many of the people who already read your blog are Perl 6 experts
is my only point
sawyer_ why would it matter?
i'm not asking them anything through the blog
i asked here
sorear ah. 07:36
sawyer_ i just said i'll be writing a blog post on perl6, in case anyone cares
sorear well carry on then
sawyer_ is all :)
sorear I'm pretty new here, I don't know much about camelia either
sawyer_ doesn't it seem... 7-year-old-esque? 07:37
sorear perl 6 is 9, not 7
:/
sawyer_ :/ 07:38
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TiMBuS sawyer_ 08:04
svn.pugscode.org/pugs/misc/camelia.txt
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moritz_ good morning 08:05
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sawyer_ TiMBuS, thanks 08:08
i like the idea of camelia, i whole-heartedly support it
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TiMBuS the idea is nice, but it probably needs a shiny web2.0 version before perl6 is considered Serious 08:10
sawyer_ i just don't like the way it looks, the strong saturated colors (which were the same for the boxes on the website - but were changed since) and all
happy to hear it'll get a bit of a (natural) facelift :)
i think the whole idea of discouraging misogyny, having a happy-spirited colorful logo is really _really_ cool :) 08:11
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_sri any chance rakudo * will include non blocking sockets? 08:34
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TiMBuS hmm, my rakudo irc bot is choking when it reads utf8. how do i specify the encoding of incoming strings from a socket 08:42
also, on that topic, I would also really like to know about nonblocking sockets or threads for rakudo* 08:43
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moritz_ they aren't really planned 08:53
but if somebody submits a patch, it will get reviewed and possibly applied
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sorear _sri: I finished blizkost precisely because I wanted a feature complete socket API for rakud 08:56
use POSIX:from<perl5>;
_sri damn 08:57
sorear well, not quite *finished*
I more or less stopped improving it once POSIX worked...
so it's a bit on the lacking side when it comes to passing complicated data structures back and forth 08:58
_sri would like to port an actually usable http 1.1 server 08:59
(and in turn a full client/server http 1.1 stack) 09:00
jnthn morning, #perl6 09:01
moritz_ morning jnthn
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dalek kudo: d6309ea | Whiteknight++ | (8 files):
updates for the ns_func_cleanup branch that just merged in Parrot

Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz [email@hidden.address]		 09:26
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moritz_ www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=845586 09:39
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jnthn moritz_: #1 happens to me now and then 09:45
TimToady I believe I am in Columbus...
jnthn re-running "nmake" (or make) then continues the build and it works
moritz_ not in Alberta anymore?
jnthn moritz_: I've not quite worked out why yet. :-/
moritz_ :(
jnthn moritz_: It seems that it does not wait for the Parrot script that generates the dyn-ops to run to completion always. 09:46
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jnthn moritz_: So may be a platform-specific makefile dependency quirk. Or something. 09:46
:S
moritz_ but make isnt' parallel?
jnthn Not here.
That's why it feels so weird.
moritz_ indeed 09:47
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masak oh hai, #perl6 09:48
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jnthn yayitsmasak! 09:48
moritz_ OH LOL
MSAAK
masak true story: I was going with a bus yesterday, but missed it because the bus stop wasn't marked in the "departures" tableau, nor were there any signs. so I went back home and submitted a bus-bug. :) 09:49
moritz_ it seems that Math::Model + Math::RungeKutta + rakudo is too slow to brute-force calculate resonance curves 09:50
jnthn That's such a you way to do things. :-D
masak s/going/trying to find/
moritz_ masak: you submitted a bug about a bus error? :-)
masak s/with / :)
moritz_: :)
jnthn masak: rakudo handles again 09:51
masak anyway, I just stopped by to say OH HAI. will have lunch now, and then I'll be back.
jnthn: I saw! kudos!
jnthn oh shi...
masak today's work promises to involve Buf, Druid, and maybe a bit of pls/Emmentaler.
jnthn I have a patch that fixes up all the other cases 09:52
moritz_ but it breaks somethinig?
jnthn But I just git pull --rebase'd and I has conflicts. :-|
in p6opaque.pmc? who's insane enough to edit that?
moritz_ jnthn: I just pushed an updated to newer parrot, which changes parrot namespace function names
jnthn oh.
moritz_ so it will be easy to figure out
jnthn The Parrot team just love to rename stuff. 09:53
moritz_ they sure do 09:54
jnthn Normally to longer things. :-| 09:55
jnthn just loves to make more keystrokes
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mberends get your money's worth from your keyboard! 09:56
pugssvn r31389 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Unfudge a bunch of handles tests that we now pass.
TimToady I don't think I've been in Alberta since I was about 16... 09:58
szabgabx rakudo: class YAPC is Cool; my $even is YAPC; 10:00
p6eval rakudo f9943a: OUTPUT«Modifications to classes are not allowed after instantiation.␤ in 'trait_mod:<is>' at line 12:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 11:/tmp/n6u_qsv9_y␤»
szabgabx rakudo: class YAPC is Cool {}; my $even is YAPC;
p6eval rakudo f9943a: OUTPUT«Modifications to classes are not allowed after instantiation.␤ in 'trait_mod:<is>' at line 12:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 11:/tmp/hY8Ult_vYg␤»
szabgabx rakudo: class YAPC is Cool {}; my YAPC $even;
p6eval rakudo f9943a: ( no output )
dalek kudo: 964d497 | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/ClassHOW.pir:
Give ClassHOW an attribute for storing handles fallback info, and a method for

rather than it being magic-y like in alpha.
kudo: 13fabba | jonathan++ | src/glue/handles.pm:
When we have a handles that doesn't match any of the criteria where we can
kudo: 5624fe3 | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
Bring dispatcher up to date with latest handles dispatch fallback handling

type objects are undefined and untrue. With this, we handle all the cases the alpha did again.
10:01 Ross left
TimToady breakfast & 10:01
masak on Twitter, the general reaction to pmichaud++'s blog post seems to be "Yay! Finally a release of Perl 6!" 10:05
someone commented that "Christmas is coming early this year", for example. 10:06
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dalek kudo: deef2c9 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
we pass another smart match test
 10:07
jnthn masak: Positive. :-)
masak the distinction between spec and impl will always be eluding a proportion of the populace. of course, people do have the right not to care sufficiently to distinguish. :)
jnthn masak: Meh, it'll be Turing Complete, the rest is just sugar. 10:08
;-)
moritz_ :-)
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dalek kudo: cdc9433 | jonathan++ | t/spectest.data:
Remove test file from regressed list that was renamed and is now run.
 10:13
TiMBuS ok so, the only solution ive managed to think of for getting utf8 strings from a socket is to call $str.encode.decode 10:14
and i know this is not doing what i want it to do, is it
sorear rakudo doesn't really support unicode at the moment
masak is halfway through a GSoC to fix that
TiMBuS it does if its coming from a utf8 terminal though
sorear only by a succession of very ugly hacks
TiMBuS =/ 10:15
pugssvn r31390 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Re-fudge S12-attributes/recursive.t for current Rakudo; we pass about half of it, and only 2 less tests than alpha.
sorear phenny: tell masak I want to implement doc comments in STD & write a documentation extractor. Do you have any example inputs?
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
TiMBuS its just when i get non-ascii sent over irc to my irc bot, it fails to parse it
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sorear your IRC bot needs to handle any sequence of bytes 10:15
not just characters 10:16
TiMBuS works when i do this encode/decode thing though
sorear like it or not, IRC encodings are not standardized
I frequently get 8859-1, UTF-8, and KOI8-R on this network
TiMBuS i only ever really deal with utf8 10:17
dalek kudo: 8e95548 | jonathan++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn S12-attributes/recursive.t on again.
 10:18
TiMBuS i pretend everything is utf8. that is my terrible solution. i just need rakudo to do that as well instead of freaking out when its expecting ascii (or whatever it is expecting) 10:19
(づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ
arnsholt Rakudo should be able to do UTF-8 I think
moritz_ TiMBuS: what does socket IO return? a Buf or a Str? 10:20
TiMBuS im not even sure anymore D: 10:21
moritz_ .WHAT tells you
if it's a Str, but an ä is two characters in that string, it's a bug in rakudo
TiMBuS its a Str, you want me to throw some characters at it and get the result of .chars 10:23
?
moritz_ yes
TimToady rakudo: say 'ä'.chars
p6eval rakudo f9943a: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz_ and now via socket IO 10:24
TiMBuS it would be wuicker if i wasnt rigging this into a working irc bot that has to connect and stuff D:
jnthn rakudo: my @x = 1,2,3; my @y; @y.push(@x); say @y.elems; 10:25
p6eval rakudo f9943a: OUTPUT«3␤»
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tadzik hmm 10:26
rakudo: "ą".chars
p6eval rakudo f9943a: ( no output )
tadzik rakudo: say "ą".chars
p6eval rakudo f9943a: OUTPUT«1␤»
tadzik strange, it's 2 on my #30
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arnsholt tadzik: Via the REPL, or in a file? 10:27
TimToady the REPL is known to get confused
tadzik arnsholt: REPL
hmm, I'll try from a file
TimToady it will work :)
arnsholt What TimToady said. Try putting it in a file
tadzik from file it works :)
TiMBuS yep its reporting ◕ as 3 chars 10:28
TimToady and 𠯭 will report 4 10:29
moritz_ TiMBuS: then please submit a bug report 10:30
sorear eh? it's well known behavior 10:31
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TiMBuS TiMBuS!Hurf@anon-FF3EB461.static.exetel.com.au PRIVMSG #test :◕ : 66 chars 10:31
TiMBuS!Hurf@anon-FF3EB461.static.exetel.com.au PRIVMSG #test :a : 64 chars
theres the uh, proof i guess.
moritz_ sorear: not for sockets
tadzik where are the sockets btw? How does one use them? 10:32
sorear pugs: sub foo($x) { BEGIN my &y := sub() { say $x; }; &y; }; my $a = foo(1); my $b = foo(2); $a(); $b();
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&BEGIN"␤ at /tmp/G1PgQtfsLR line 1, column 15-47␤»
sorear pugs: sub foo($x) { my &y; BEGIN { &y := sub() { say $x; }; }; &y; }; my $a = foo(1); my $b = foo(2); $a(); $b();
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«␤␤»
moritz_ tadzik: see t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t foran example 10:33
sorear pugs: sub foo($x) { sub y() { say $x; }; &y; }; my $a = foo(1); my $b = foo(2); $a(); $b();
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«␤␤»
sorear rakudo: sub foo($x) { sub y() { say $x; }; &y; }; my $a = foo(1); my $b = foo(2); $a(); $b();
p6eval rakudo f9943a: OUTPUT«2␤2␤»
TiMBuS so is there a better 'fix' than my current one? 10:34
sorear alpha: sub foo($x) { sub y() { say $x; }; &y; }; my $a = foo(1); my $b = foo(2); $a(); $b();
TimToady pugs: sub foo($x) { my &y; BEGIN { &OUTER::y := sub() { say $x; }; }; &y; }; my $a = foo(1); my $b = foo(2); $a(); $b();
moritz_ TiMBuS: yes, patch rakudo
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
pugs: OUTPUT«␤␤»
TiMBuS lol
tadzik moritz_: in rakudo?
sorear I think pugs' response is the most natural one; merely assigning a sub in BEGIN shouldn't be enough to make it cloned
TimToady between audreyt++ and Haskell the semantics of pugs are usually pretty clean 10:35
moritz_ tadzik: the file is in the pugs repo, but if you run 'make testable' in rakudo it downloads it for you
sorear Because, IMO, the pad cloner shouldn't care about what's stored in the protolexpad
it should just copy the values
tadzik moritz_: but is it usable in Rakudo now?
moritz_ tadzik: for some value of "usable", yes 10:36
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moritz_ tadzik: rakudo runs that test file 10:36
tadzik mhm
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moritz_ hugme: tweet rakudoperl Rakudo now supports delegation via 'handles' again #perl6 10:39
hugme hugs moritz_; tweet delivered
TimToady \o/ for sugar 10:42
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moritz_ likes chocolate :-) 10:48
TimToady std: feeling better? 10:56
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p6eval std 31378: OUTPUT«Can't locate object method "load_pad" via package "STD::P6" at STD.pm line 62221.␤FAILED 00:00 97m␤» 10:56
TimToady apparently not... :/
moritz_ rakudo: say cos(60, Angles)
p6eval rakudo 8e9554: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &Angles␤ in main program body at line 11:/tmp/D9Qi0TxTIu␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say cos(60, Angle)
p6eval rakudo 8e9554: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &Angle␤ in main program body at line 11:/tmp/Fv96AMYWCk␤» 10:57
moritz_ rakudo: say cos(60, Degrees)
p6eval rakudo 8e9554: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
TimToady
.oO(can't trust those Angles...)
moritz_ triggers an STD.pm rebuild on p6eval 10:58
STD5PREFIX=stage1/ PERL5LIB=stage1/:. ./std CORE.setting 11:00
Can't locate NULL.lex in @INC (@INC contains: stage1/ . /opt/perl-5.12.1/lib/site_perl/5.12.1/x86_64-linux /opt/perl-5.12.1/lib/site_perl/5.12.1 /opt/perl-5.12.1/lib/5.12.1/x86_64-linux /opt/perl-5.12.1/lib/5.12.1 .) at CursorBase.pm line 300.
std FAILED 00:01 99m CORE.setting
make: *** [stage1/.stamp] Error 1
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TimToady make clean first? 11:04
moritz_ it did a make clean first
TimToady and make sure it's svnupped?
moritz_ tries again 11:05
still same error 11:08
TimToady must be something left over from before, somehow...hmm...lemme go find a plug so I can exercise my CPU 11:09
moritz_ randomly removes stuff, svn up's and tries again 11:10
_sri btw. is there any interest in a stylized version of camelia? 11:12
moritz_ you mean, like a pictogram? 11:14
_sri as in web 2.0 facelift
_sri is an illustrator by night 11:15
moritz_ would love to sees some variants
TimToady discovers that he has left is laptops power brick at home :( 11:16
moritz_ :(
TimToady *his
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Su-Shee _sri: I did one, someone else did one as well. ;) 11:17
well five or six if I remember correctly. 11:18
_sri are there any actual requirements for it to qualify as camelia?
TimToady lots 11:20
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colomon TimToady: do you have a power brick plan? If I recall correctly, the Batteries, Etc store in Ann Arbor has generic power bricks for a ton of laptops, I should be passing through there today on my way to Columbus... 11:33
TimToady I was gonna try the Radio Shack, but if you think you can find one there for a T61, I'd be much obliged 11:35
colomon T61, what brand? 11:36
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TimToady lenovo 11:36
11:36 am0c joined
TimToady about when would you know if they have it? 11:37
colomon okay, I'll see what I can do.
I can probably call them noonish.
TimToady okay, lemme know if it doesn't pan out, and I'll try RS 11:38
colomon Sorry, Batteries Plus is the proper name of the store -- they have two locations in the Columbus area, too, according to the Intertubez. 11:39
www.batteriesplus.com/Store_Details/161.aspx
TimToady thanks
colomon www.batteriesplus.com/Store_Details/162.aspx
e-mail me (this user name at gmail.com) if you get one before three-ish, I'll check before buying. 11:40
TimToady mkay
off to de-airport & 11:41
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colomon pmichaud++'s Rakudo Star announcement currently #2 on Hacker News... 11:46
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masak \o/ 11:47
phenny masak: 10:15Z <sorear> tell masak I want to implement doc comments in STD & write a documentation extractor. Do you have any example inputs?
masak sorear: yes, but they're still in a local branch that I'm rebasing quite liberally. can I produce something tailor-made for you, perhaps? what is it that you're doc-commenting? 11:48
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masak jnthn++ # restoring Rakudo master to alpha 'handles' capabilities 11:52
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pugssvn r31391 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Add a test for RT#66330 to walk.t. Also tweak a couple of tests that won't quite work; things passed into :omit and :include need to be a little more careful since they'll be invoked with Mu at some point, which in this case didn't end too well. 11:52
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masak pmichaud++'s blog post is getting retweeted a lot. it's some kind of record for Rakudo publicity. 11:55
moritz_ doesn't seem to pick up too many votes on reddit though (hint, hint) 11:56
jnthn masak: It includes a solid date. ;-)
masak: I think it's the first to do so. 11:57
masak jnthn: yeah.
jnthn Woo, RT back below 640...
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masak upvoted on reddit. 11:58
strange that neither reddit or ycombinator has any comments.
moritz_ it takes some time for the trolls to gather :-) 11:59
masak that must be it :)
moritz_ hackernews isn't as bad as reddit in that regard
masak they have an explicit policy about being constructive. reddit doesn't, as far as I know. 12:00
I think it's a nice real-life example of the importance of "seeding" a community with positive values. 12:01
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dalek kudo: ee7620d | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Numeric.pm:
Modify the Numeric version of infix:􏿽xAB<=>􏿽xBB to extend values with zeros, so that
12:11
masak hm. is dalek taking utf-8 and converting it to latin-1 along the way? :/ 12:13
colomon loliblogged: justrakudoit.wordpress.com/2010/06/...ch-easier/ 12:17
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moritz_ colomon++ 12:18
that *is* nice
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masak colomon: not sure `@positives = 1..*` is meant to be lazy. array assignment causes eager evaluation, if I understood correctly. 12:23
avar Is the "usable" rakudo release going to ship with the rakudo->perl5 interface?
masak colomon: if you want the lazy variant, you should use `<=`
moritz_ avar: yes
masak avar: I think so, yes.
moritz_ avar: wiki.github.com/rakudo/rakudo/whats...nto-rakudo 12:24
avar ah, thanks
colomon masak: which, of course, is NYI
(and is it actually <== ?)
avar Is the gray line here the complete number of tests in the suite: rakudo.org/status ?
colomon avar: yes
masak colomon: oh yes, of course. sorry :) 12:25
moritz_ <== is (like) lazy assignment, <<== lazy push
masak colomon: my point is that your post makes it seem that there's something NYI about list assignment in Rakudo. there isn't, IIUC.
colomon avar: or at least, the complete number of tests that the testing code sees.
avar right 12:26
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moritz_ masak: S07 or S08 (the one talking about iterators) still states that infinite lists aren't to be eagerly evaluated upon list assignment 12:26
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moritz_ masak: we have a deplorable lag in updating the spec to what we think should be spec 12:26
masak in that case, I stand corrected.
moritz_ I'm not sure if it's one of those items that changed 12:27
masak pmichaud would know.
cognominal jnthn, if I want the full backtrace back, how do I do? 12:28
colomon post updated.
masak colomon++ 12:29
jnthn cognominal: in src/Perl6/Compiler.pir, rename backtrace method 12:30
cognominal thx
jnthn moritz_: I think pmichaud++ has plans to get the specs through in line with the implementation.
*brought 12:31
colomon Indeed he does. :)
jnthn Another 11 passing tests coming up. :-) 12:32
colomon \o/
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mberends colomon++ # nice blog post :) 12:38
jnthn colomon++ # nice :-) 12:39
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colomon there's 11 new passing tests. :) 12:45
dalek kudo: 7a05ae5 | jonathan++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn on S12-introspection/walk.t.
kudo: 97f2caa | jonathan++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
Various fixes to Mu.WALK.
pugssvn r31392 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Tests for mixing Real and Complex values in == and !=. 12:46
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jnthn 1.infix:<+>(2) 12:49
...does that even make sense?
moritz_ hum
masak don't think so.
moritz_ infixes aren't methods
jnthn (just ofund it in a test file and tempted to kill it)
masak infix operators aren't... what moritz_ said.
jnthn moritz_: Exactly.
jnthn kills
--with-fire
moritz_ kill it DED: D E D DEAD.
masak --your-darlings
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pugssvn r31393 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Re-fudge indirect_notation.t for Rakudo and toss some tests that make no sense. 12:51
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jnthn closes 1-year-old masakbug 12:54
moritz_: You applied rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=75840 ?
moritz_ jnthn: yes 12:55
jnthn closing
masak jnthn++ # closing stuff
moritz_ didn't even know it was in RT, just found the link to the github commit in the backlog
jnthn :-) 12:56
dalek kudo: 0adb7fc | jonathan++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn on the now re-fudged indirect-notation.t; will hopefully be able to unfudge
12:57
jnthn rakudo: class A { has @.m; }; A.new(:m(1,2,3)).m[2.0] 12:58
colomon rakudo: say NaN ~~ "NaN"
p6eval rakudo ee7620: ( no output )
rakudo ee7620: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon oooo
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jnthn rakudo: class A { has @.m; }; say A.new(:m(1,2,3)).m[2.0] 12:58
p6eval rakudo ee7620: OUTPUT«3␤»
jnthn woo, and that ticket can be given for spectests. :-) 12:59
moritz_ quivers with anticipation
that was... exaggerated :-)
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ggoebel Happy Fathers' Day to all progenitors of Perl6! 13:02
masak rakudo: class A { has @.m; }; say A.new(:m(1,2,3)).m[2] 13:03
p6eval rakudo ee7620: OUTPUT«3␤»
masak rakudo: class A { has @.m; }; say A.new(:m[1,2,3]).m[2]
p6eval rakudo ee7620: OUTPUT«␤»
moritz_ won't be a father until Feb 2011, if all goes right
masak moritz_: wow! crossing fingers.
moritz_ masak: thanks 13:04
masak we need more moritz_es in the world :)
moritz_ expected a bit more biological background from masak; no cloning involved in natural, human reproduction :-) 13:05
TimToady in list context .. is supposed to turn into ... which is lazy
masak moritz_: it's the best approximation we have :P
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colomon TimToady: it's supposed to have the same output as ..., right? it doesn't have to be implemented the same way... or does it? 13:06
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masak moritz_: also, meiosis is a kind of cloning, although with a classic sexual-reproduction twist ;) 13:07
colomon (Mind you, I'm strongly considering ditching RangeIter and just directly using ... in the .. implementation. But as far as I know, that's not required by Spec...)
moritz_ actually one can just calculate the value for a given index in a range 13:08
for numbers that's straight-forward
for strings... not so 13:09
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TimToady no, doesn't have to be implemented the same way, but should still be lazy if used as a list 13:10
bbl & 13:12
dalek kudo: 63b92f6 | jonathan++ | src/pmc/perl6multisub.pmc:
Remove comments about todos that are todone.
moritz_ masak: yesterday I implemented topological sorting for Math::Model. Thanks for leaving the note about in ufo :-) 13:18
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masak moritz_: you're welcome. :) I was positively surprised at how simple the algorithm is. 13:18
moritz_ it is indeed
jnthn Aye, it's easy.
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jnthn And once you understand taht, you understand Perl 6 multi dispatch. :-) 13:19
moritz_ jnthn: you make it sound so easy :-)
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jnthn It is...after you've implemented it. :-) 13:21
cognominal I wish I had a rakudo compiler best practices book when trying to tamper with the compiler...
moritz_ dos: implement cool new features. Don'ts: don't break stuff 13:22
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colomon moritz_: what's the full url for math::model? 13:25
moritz_ hugme: show Math-Model
hugme moritz_: sorry, I don't know anything about 'Math-Model'
moritz_ urks
colomon should totally be playing around with it....
moritz_ github.com/moritz/Math-Model/
colomon: I'm nearly finished with a blog post about it 13:26
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masak colomon: when in doubt about the location of various Perl 6 projects, there's a neat little list at proto.perl6.org ... 13:30
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moritz_ perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/physical...lling.html 13:31
masak moritz_: cool! always nice to see Perl 6 producing graphics. 13:33
moritz_ is it understandable for a non-physicist?
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masak moritz_: it's confusing that the three throwing curves are all on different axis dimensions and aspect ratios. 13:33
moritz_ masak: I know :( 13:34
masak moritz_: if I were you, I'd put all of them on the same scale.
moritz_ it's not something I can easily put into SVG::Plot :(
masak I understand that. especially if they're rendered separately. 13:35
couldn't you hack it locally just for the blog post?
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masak hard-code the axes or something. 13:35
anyway, moritz_++
moritz_ hm
hard-coding
*evilgrin*
masak yet another soul corrupted. :> 13:36
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moritz_ you're so evil. 13:39
masak I'll take that as a compliment. 13:40
moritz_ that's how it was meant
masak practices laughing with an echo
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moritz_ blog post updated with cheating, masak++ 13:44
masak moritz_: a great improvement. 13:45
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moritz_ hugme: add colomon to Math-Model 13:45
hugme hugs colomon. Welcome to Math-Model!
moritz_ just in case :-)
masak the fact that all those parabolas look the same modulo scaling (in the absence of air resistance) feels like a nice generalisation of the observation "first it goes up, and then it comes down again" :P 13:47
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moritz_ :-) 13:53
it follows directly from the fact that only linear equations were used to calculate it 13:54
masak I'll take your word for it. 13:55
moritz_ hey, give that back!</purl> 13:56
masak I usually have an intuition for such things, but here it fails me, it seems.
moritz_ scaling is a linear operation 13:57
if you scale any factor in a linear differential equation, the solution is also just scaled
wouldn't work if you had $:velocity**2 dependency, as is the case with air drag
masak ah. 13:58
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diakopter instead of banning a hundred million people (comcast), #freenode suggests in the future we do a temporary quiet of unregistered users instead 14:09
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_sri kraih.com/camelia-sri.png # my interpretation of camelia :) 14:16
not finished but you get the idea
moritz_ _sri++ # nice twist 14:17
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_sri if there's interest i'll finish it and put it under the right license :) 14:20
moritz_ _sri: I'd kinda like a collection of camelia sisters, where one can chose from 14:21
masak the Camelia Notes svn.pugscode.org/pugs/misc/camelia.txt seem to imply that for it to count as Camelia, it must have the P6 pattern on the wings. 14:22
not sure this butterfly was meant to depict Camelia; but it might be worth pointing out nevertheless. 14:23
_sri i'm an artist, i don't care about rules! 14:24
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masak :) 14:25
_sri paints the whole channel pink
moritz_ did you use p-ink to do that? :-) 14:26
masak boos ;) 14:27
moritz_ hugme: tweet rakudoperl #rakudo star, a compiler + modules distribution of #perl6, to be released on July 29: use.perl.org/~pmichaud/journal/40407
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hugme hugs moritz_; tweet delivered 14:27
tadzik is 'use v6;' recommended only to not accidentally run the code with Perl5? 14:29
masak tadzik: you have my personal recommendation. 14:30
tadzik: sometimes I accidentally write 'perl' instead of 'perl6', and then it's a life-line.
moritz_ tadzik: when Perl 6 supports Perl 5 interop, you actually have to 'use v6;' because v5 will be the default
tadzik yeah, I've run onto it a few times
masak it's also good documentation. :)
moritz_ and what masak++ said
tadzik I see 14:31
moritz_ the error messages from perl 5 can be rather surprising if you use it accidentally, and don't have that v6 safeguard
tadzik and one more, in general the scripts should be named .pl or .p6?
moritz_ prefers .pl 14:32
but it doesn't really matter
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masak the Reddit thread seems to be getting off to a bad start :( www.reddit.com/r/programming/commen...leased_by/ 14:32
amazing how many simply parrot stale misunderstandings about Perl. 14:33
tadzik: I prefer not to give my scripts an extension at all. on Unix, executables generally don't have an extension. 14:34
tadzik: if I had to choose one, I'd go with .pl
tadzik Well, I like the extensions for vim to choose the syntax hilighting correctly 14:35
moritz_ # vim: ft=perl6
masak indeed.
tadzik yeah, I know. But it's easier to just name it .p6 imho
moritz_ tadzik: what file extension do you use for prolog?
tadzik I don't use prolog 14:36
masak tadzik: you're free to name the files however you like. just be prepared for other people doing the same. :) 14:37
tadzik :)
colomon I think most people are using .pl for Perl 6 files....
_sri masak: btw. the 3 dots on the wings are supposed to represent P and 6, thats why one is upside down ;p 14:38
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dalek kudo: e298e50 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/ (5 files):
Remove all existing numeric ACCEPTS methods in place of one new Numeric.ACCEPTS

efficiency's sake.)		 14:38
masak _sri: oh! that *is* artistic. 14:39
_sri :D
masak rakudo: my Array of Int @box 14:45
p6eval rakudo ee7620: OUTPUT«Method '!select' not found for invocant of class ''␤ in main program body at line 11:/tmp/WoesoAyMqj␤»
masak this currently causes S02-builtin_data_types/declare.rakudo to fail two tests early.
masak submits rakudobug
moritz_ ldami.blogspot.com/2010/06/rakudo-p...win32.html btw 14:47
it's a bit old, but I haven't noticed it before
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jnthn masak: I...was sure I fudged those. 14:49
masak: They passed bogusly.
You sure you got latest test suite?
masak hm. maybe I need to svn up. hold on.
jnthn I can't, I need to leave...bbiab 14:50
masak :)
yeah, seems my t/spec folder was suspect. 14:51
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masak sometimes I deplore the fact that I can no longer use &die to print things like usage messages in Perl 6. (because I don't want the backtrace.) instead, I use &note and then &exit. 15:02
I know the `die "usage message\n"` was an unforgivable exception -- and one that probably doesn't belong in Perl 6 in that form -- but it did have its uses.
colomon masak: can I use current proto with an installed rakudo? I had trouble last time I tried that.... 15:03
masak colomon: I do believe it's possible, but you have to tweak proto's config file after it's been automatically generated. 15:04
tadzik can one use proto without compiled parrot and rakudo sources lying around?
colomon so how do I generate the config file?
tadzik: proto is designed to install rakudo / parrot for you. 15:05
masak colomon: it's generated the first time ./proto is invoked.
tadzik colomon: yes, but can it be used with rakudo/parrot installed separately?
colomon masak: errr... git doesn't seem to have a proto/proto
perl6 proto.pl, maybe? 15:06
or perl proto.pl configure proto
?
masak colomon: what? nonono. 15:07
you just run it. with perl, not perl6.
colomon with "configure proto" tagged on?
masak it has a shebang line, so you shouldn't even need the 'perl'. just ./proto
colomon: I shouldn't be giving instructions, actually. proto has changed too much since I knew how to operate it. 15:08
it's fully possible you need to write 'configure proto' nowadays. :(
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colomon gack, still less than completely user friendly. 15:09
masak :( 15:10
masak resolves to get pls up-and-running as soon as possible
colomon masak++_
masak as far as I'm concerned, proto is no longer maintained.
everyone has access rights to it, so if there's something you can do to make it work less badly right now, feel free.
colomon first, README combines the configure proto and install rakudo stages. (minor)
masak but a better solution is on the assembly line.
colomon: again, patches welcome. 15:11
colomon then when you run the configure, it tells you it's created 'proto.conf', but not where it has created it.
masak: if I get the tuits, I'll try to do some patches at YAPC::NA. 15:12
masak colomon: cool -- thanks.
colomon (right now, actively working on rakudo and trying to watch a 21-month-old, probably not a good time to also be patching unfamiliar code!) 15:13
masak don't overexert yourself. I want to emphasize that proto is now in the "being replaced" part of its life cycle. 15:14
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colomon masak: don't work, I've got the "laziness is a virtue" part of Perl down solid. ;) 15:17
masak that's the idea. 15:18
colomon and it goes 'splode! 15:19
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colomon Wynne:proto colomon$ ./proto.pl install Math-Model 15:19
Building proto...done
maximum recursion depth exceeded
in 'postcircumfix:<{ }>' at line 1
in 'postcircumfix:<{ }>' at line 1082:CORE.setting
in 'postcircumfix:<{ }>' at line 1
etc
moritz_ colomon: most common cause: %hash{$match-object} 15:20
fixable with a ~
colomon at first glance, that doesn't seem to be it. 15:21
ah, wait, just one level down
redicaps That is just what I got by ./proto.pl install svg
colomon now I get a different error! ;) 15:22
redicaps well, not exactly the same.
moritz_ git clone'd all projects manually, and in each ran 'ufo && make install'
redicaps maximum recursion depth exceeded 15:23
in 'Iterable::list' at line 3351:CORE.setting
in 'Iterable::list' at line 3353:CORE.setting
in 'Any::flat' at line 1329:CORE.settin
colomon so that one was Installer.pm6, lines 629-630 need a ~ before the $0
moritz_ hugme: add colomon to proto
hugme hugs colomon. Welcome to proto!
colomon error messages in Rakudo seem much nicer now, btw. 15:24
Unable to open filehandle from path 'projects.state'
in 'open' at line 4638:CORE.setting
in 'Ecosystem::load-project-list' at line 127:/Users/colomon/.perl6/lib/Ecosystem.pm6
masak colomon: that's a known one. mberends-- 15:25
colomon: just do touch on that file, and it should work.
colomon what directory?
masak current.
colomon ~/.perl6/proto
?
masak no, I think the one you're standing in.
but I'm not sure. :(
colomon okay, trying....
hey, it claims it worked! 15:26
masak :)
redicaps colomon: How, I did not get it
Oh, I see 15:27
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colomon it definitely seems to have installed something... 15:36
no chance to check, father's day atm. ;)
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lue ohai o/ 16:17
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masak lue: \o 16:21
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ajs So, did anyone see those tests of mine for lexical conventions? Was I correct in identifying failures, or was I testing incorreclty? 16:31
moritz_ didn't get around to review them yet 16:34
ajs OK, no worries. I know things are crazy 16:36
colomon TimToady: ping? 16:37
ajs Once I (et al.) feel more confident in my tests, what's the chance of getting commit on spectest svn? Would make it much easier, of course. 16:38
moritz_ ajs: just tell me you desired nick name and email address
ajs ajs [email@hidden.address] if possible 16:39
Tene So far, the policy has been "Anyone who expresses any interest in working on tests gets a pugs commit bit, whether they want it or not." ;)
moritz_ hugme: add [email@hidden.address] to pugs
hugme hugs ajs. If all goes well you'll get an email soon
ajs oh nice
Tene, heh
masak wow! hugme sends email now?
moritz_ it's traditiona to add yourself to AUTHORS in the first commit, testing your commit bit and all 16:40
masak: hugme web-scrapes commitbit.pugscode.org/admin/projec...gs/people, which in turn is supposed to send e-mails
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ajs sounds good 16:40
Tene masak: commitbit does, and hugme talks to commitbit, iirc
colomon wonders if he ever remembered to add himself to AUTHORS for the pugs svn....
masak moritz_++
ajs hmm... problem 16:41
followed the link in the email to set password, "This webpage is not available."
"Error 312 (net::ERR_UNSAFE_PORT): Unknown error." 16:42
moritz_ ajs: try to remove the port specification from the URL
ajs ok
seems to work
moritz_ \o/
ajs huh, even though I had no commit, I was already in AUTHORS ;) 16:46
masak a commit FROM THE FUTURE?
ajs I knew I shouldn't have written Time::Travel next year 16:47
masak :)
ajs: lue has allegedly made some mistake in the same category.
lue Ah, the wonderful timey-wimey ball
when will I do that? :)
masak it's not so much a time LINE as a time PRETZEL. 16:48
noms &
16:48 masak left
lue
.oO(Oh dear, my TARDIS seems to be acting up. I'm in the year 1492)
 16:48
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ajs So, it looks like #?rakudo todo "description" before a test will cause it to be treated as a known failure? 16:50
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moritz_ yes 16:50
ajs Ah, I see the README now
Mind if I check in that lexical conventions thing with the failures marked? 16:51
moritz_ please do
ajs: what was the (wrong) port in your welcome email? 9999? 16:52
ajs 6666
moritz_ no idea where it got that diea from 16:53
:(
the only occurences that ack -a finds are in logs, and in the sqlite3 database
etc/config.yml has Port: 80 16:54
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ajs huh 17:04
anyway, I've moved my changes into S02-lexical-conventions/unicode.t and am running a full "make spectest" to see how it plays out. I'll check it in if all goes according to plan. I assume that normally, we're not expected to do a full spectest before each test commit, just run that test file? 17:05
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moritz_ right 17:09
make t/spec/S02-lexical-conventions/unicode.t
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moritz_ should be enough 17:09
that runs fudge automatically, if needed
jnthn back 17:10
colomon TimToady: no T61 power supplies in Ann Arbor or the Columbus region (at batteries plus) but one was purchased an hour ago in Columbus, I'm hoping that was you. Gotta run drive. 17:11
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lue afk 17:33
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_sri trading firstborn child for working non blocking sockets! 17:37
sorear hello #perl6 17:38
jnthn hi sorear
_sri kraih.com/camelia-sri.png # tweaked colors a bit 17:41
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sorear phenny: tell masak declarations? class, function, variable, you name it. .pm6 -> .pod converter 17:45
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
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moritz_ hugme: update 17:54
hugme: reload
hugme moritz_: reloaded successfully
moritz_ hugme: show try.rakudo.org 17:58
hugme moritz_: the following people have power over 'try.rakudo.org': T⁣imToady, [⁣particle], c⁣olomon, j⁣nthn, m⁣asak, m⁣oritz_, p⁣michaud. URL: github.com/moritz/try.rakudo.org/
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arnsholt Heh. in gnome-terminal the non-breaking spaces (or whatever they are, I forget) between the first and second characters in the names are actual spaces 18:00
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jnthn arnshot: How broken. ;-) 18:11
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arnsholt jnthn: Indeed =) 18:12
sorear TimToady: Where do non-Perl6 classes fit into the type hierarchy? Any? Mu? Cool? 18:14
jnthn sorear: fwiw, Rakudo treats them as Any at the moment. 18:15
sorear: Muchly because that's the default type constraint.
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moritz_ nopaste.snit.ch/21416 next week's contribution to Perl 6, feedback welcome 18:37
moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/tryrakudo.svg that's the image linked there 18:38
phenny: tell masak nopaste.snit.ch/21416 feedback welcome 18:39
phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
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lucs moritz_: Maybe you can mention fail." ); 18:40
assert( null, "So will I." );
Oops :)
Take 2:
arnsholt moritz_: Cool. I like the idea 18:41
lucs moritz_: Maybe you can mention ejohn.org/apps/learn/#1 as an example.
(NB: great JS learning resource.)
moritz_ lucs: will do 18:42
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moritz_ hugme: add moritz to web 18:53
hugme hugs moritz. Welcome to web!
_sri moritz_: how do you sandbox rakudo? 18:57
moritz_ _sri: selinux, hopefully
slavik what are the chances for complete rakudo for this year's cristmas?
moritz_ slavik: slim 18:58
slavik next year?
moritz_ better
_sri moritz_: ah, make sure to blog how you did that :)
slavik moritz_: I am wondering when there will be a production ready perl6 implementation :)
moritz_ slavik: production ready != finished 18:59
slavik moritz_: passed all perl6 specs is production ready for my uses and purposes
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moritz_ slavik: that's quite a weird definiton of production ready 19:01
slavik would stable be better? 19:02
basically, it should be something that wouldn't change behavior from day to day like it is likely to do now
moritz_ for me it's more important that it has a certain speed, produces helpful error message, and supports the IO operations I need
slavik yeah
but so that =$*IN and IN.getlines() type of changes don't appear all of the sudden :P 19:03
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moritz_ phenny: ask masak how t/hitomi/01-xml-parsing.t is supposed to work. It has a line 'use Hitomi;', but there's no Hitomi.pm to be found anywhere near... 19:03
phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
sorear rakudo: Any.^methods.Str.say 19:05
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«reduce reverse list isa map min max first sort grep none values Numeric elems end Str all keys uniq classify pairs kv one ACCEPTS pick flat any Seq minmax does rotate join can PARROT bless WHENCE WHERE notdef BUILDALL new Bool print say defined WALK item REJECTS BUILD clone
..WHICH …
slavik oh wow, that is nice
sorear jnthn: how does that work? how do we make any old Object PMC liskov for Any?
slavik can you define macros?
hmm, I need to read some docs
[Coke] (rename) Sadly, we're trying to clean up a mess. 19:10
p9
ww. 19:11
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jnthn sorear: Meta-model just cheats. 19:25
sorear: in .isa
It spots it is foreign and just makes things work.
sorear jnthn: How about for method calls? 19:28
rakudo: pir::root_new(<parrot ResizablePMCArray>).say 19:29
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The opcode 'root_new_p' (root_new<1>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments␤»
jnthn sorear: Don't have a solution for that at the moment.
sorear rakudo: pir::root_new__pp(<parrot ResizablePMCArray>).say
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«Method 'say' not found for invocant of class 'ResizablePMCArray'␤ in main program body at line 11:/tmp/Ad614a206Q␤»
jnthn sorear: Not sure if we should
I mean, if it's a foreign object...
It controls its dispatch.
sorear wonders if augment class Any is legal 19:30
jnthn Yes
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moritz_ I've just tried to start porting web to current rakudo 19:35
FardadJalili how can you make a slice from an array?
moritz_ it's mostly rather opaque to me hos stuff is supposed to work 19:36
FardadJalili: @array[1, 2, 3]
FardadJalili moritz_: aah, was tryinh @array[1,3]. thanks again.
s/tryinh/trying/
moritz_ what's wrong with @array[1,3] ? 19:37
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FardadJalili moritz_: gives me only the @array[1] element 19:41
moritz_ rakudo: my @a = <a b c d e f g>; say @a[1, 3]
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«bd␤»
moritz_ works here
FardadJalili: how old is the rakudo you use 19:42
FardadJalili moritz_: seems to work in other places too, it's a bug from elsewhere in my program then
moritz_: my raduko is #30 ;)
moritz_ FardadJalili: should be new enough 19:43
sorear #30 is alpha right?
moritz_ nope
it's the release from last Thursday :-) 19:44
Tene moritz_: working in a branch of the web repo, or just locally? 19:52
moritz_ Tene: in a branch
Tene: called ng
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Tene 'k 19:52
I don't have anything to do for the rest of today, so I might start working on that with you. :)
moritz_ Tene: I don't understand the routes code 19:53
Tene :(
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Tene I don't know that I've ever looked at it. 19:53
... there, I just got the broken box at work to stop complaining at me.
Lemme look.
moritz_ Routes.pm line 21 and onwards is a bit confusing with inner and outer %_ 19:54
Tene oh, that's kind of unfortunate. 19:55
moritz_ and rakudo has problems with placeholders inside methods 19:56
rakudo: class A { method m { my $c = { $:foo } } }; say A.new.m.(:foo).perl
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
moritz_ rakudo: class A { method m { my $c = { $:foo, %_ } } }; say A.new.m.(:foo).perl
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«(Bool::True, {})␤»
moritz_ huh 19:57
I don't understand that error at all
avar what does larry's "soon can bootstrap past gimme5" in the notes mean? Is STD going to be used for rakudo et al?
Tene anyway, you can *certainly* rename *%_ to something less bad.
Lemme just check my understanding of it against alpha 19:58
moritz_ avar: it means that gimme5 has been replaced by something that uses itself for parsing
s/itself/STD.pm/ 19:59
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moritz_ rakudo: say { "$:actions" }.(actions => 3) 20:01
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«3␤»
Tene oh, it looks like t/routes/01-basics.t doesn't even pass as it is on alpha.
That's... unfortunate.
moritz_ Tene: does Routes.pm compile at all? 20:02
Tene Yes.
and the first three tests pass.
moritz_ ouch 20:03
the error message comes from the method earlier
Tene but the fourth crashes with: call: (|, |{"action" => "Index", "controller" => "Root"})
2 unexpected named parameters passed (action, controller)
in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)
moritz_ ah
now same in master
erm 20:04
ng
Tene: what about the other test files in t/routes/ ?
Tene haven't tried yet. I'll do that now.
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sorear avar: What notes? 20:05
_sri kraih.com/rakudo-perl6-sri.png # some motivation :)
Tene moritz_: looks like they all crash with similar problems. 20:06
moritz_ right
avar sorear: The latest bit.ly/99Eu42 20:07
sorear avar: ah, found them. chromatic was delayed for a while preparing the notes and those are about a month behind the current
gimme5 is dead and gone
this means that STD.pm6 is now being parsed using STD.pm6, instead of 1000 lines of Perl 5 s/// statements 20:08
Tene oh, that say is in lib/routes/route.pm
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Tene so I should be able to make a simple test... 20:09
did this ever work? 20:10
moritz_ no idea
Tene it references %:controllers, but it doesn't even set controllers in the call
look at lib/Routes/Route.pm +60
commented out.
moritz_ it's comme... right
Tene so... the thing that's being called couldn't have ever worked anyway. 20:11
moritz_ and %*controllers is never set anywhere
Tene do named args fall back like that? 20:12
I didn't know that.
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moritz_ what do you mean? 20:12
last touched: a52df009 (Ilya Belikin 2009-06-05 23:52:52 +1100 60)
Tene Routes.pm +25 looks for something in %:controllers 20:13
oh, I get what you're saying now.
Sorry, reading comprehension slow today. :)
moritz_ that's a named placeholder
Tene I misunderstood why you were talking about %*controllers 20:14
earlier in Routes::Route.apply it assigns from $!stuff, and I didn't notice that the commented out line used $* instead
So I was confused when you mentioned that %*controllers was never set 20:15
moritz_ it seems that method connect would set up $!code appropriately to expect an 'action' named argument 20:16
but it's never called?
Tene Yeah, Routes was Ilya's project, but I never looked at it.
and nothing in the web repo outside of t/routes/ uses it
So... probably safe to ignore Routes, I bet. Looks like Ilya fell out before getting it usable. 20:17
afaict
masak would know better.
moritz_ gives up on Routes
it's now in the same failing state as on alpha
Tene good enough for me. :) 20:19
moritz_ HTML::Entities won't be any fun since rakudo doesn't yet support backslash sequences in char classes
Tene I'm going to look at HTTP::Daemon 20:20
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moritz_ hugme: show http-daemon 20:21
hugme moritz_: sorry, I don't know anything about 'http-daemon'
moritz_ is that on github? 20:22
Tene gitorious
divide by zero!
sorear Ilya is in Perl6land? 20:24
moritz_ rakudo: my Int $x = 3; undefine($x)
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤ in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤ in 'undefine' at line 452:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 11:/tmp/bIE8oB8V_S␤»
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Tene sorear: the Ilya that was involved in the web project was: Илья [email@hidden.address] 20:26
Hasn't been around in quite a long time
FardadJalili when you use $param? and *@slurpy in your signature, sub and multi sub have different behaviors. ( sub gives warnings I think ). is this standard?
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moritz_ FardadJalili: example? 20:26
Tene Method 'postcircumfix:<{ }>' not found for invocant of class 'Failure' in main program body at line 1 20:27
FardadJalili multi sub fsort([$p?,*@r]) {
return fsort(@r.grep( {$_ <= $p} )),$p,fsort(@r.grep( {$_ > $p} )) if $p || @r;
}
moritz_ rakudo: multi sub fsort([$p?,*@r]) { }
p6eval rakudo e298e5: ( no output )
moritz_ rakudo: sub fsort([$p?,*@r]) { }
p6eval rakudo e298e5: ( no output )
FardadJalili no!
moritz_ but?
sorear Tene: I had them confused with Ilya Zakharevich, commiter of the atrocity that is the Perl 5 regex engine 20:28
Tene ah, %*VM NYI?
rakudo: say %*VM.perl
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'Hash'␤ in main program body at line 11:/tmp/4cqRaeNDEW␤»
Tene ah 20:29
rakudo: say %*VM<config>
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
moritz_ Tene: that would be a worthy thing to fix in rakudo
FardadJalili rakudo: multi sub fsort([$p?,*@r]) { return fsort(@r.grep( {$_ <= $p} )),$p,fsort(@r.grep( {$_ > $p} )) if $p || @r; } my @ar = 4,2,3,4; say fsort(@ar).join(' '); 20:30
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 11, near "multi sub "␤»
moritz_ FardadJalili: need a ; after statement-ending }
FardadJalili moritz_: check this : paste.ubuntu.com/452622/ 20:31
moritz_: use it once with multi and once without 20:32
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moritz_ recompiles rakudo 20:32
FardadJalili moritz_: wait
moritz_: lef me fix that :d
jnthn It looks correct to me. 20:33
Yes, you will get different errors between multi and non-multi dispatch.
FardadJalili moritz_: check this one paste.ubuntu.com/452624/
jnthn: use this one please paste.ubuntu.com/452624/
jnthn Ah 20:34
That's...more interesting.
FardadJalili jnthn: you see ? :d
jnthn: with multi, it's quick sort, without multi, it just complains. 20:35
jnthn Yes, that's a surprising inconsistency.
patrickas problem is with if i think 20:36
jnthn A say $p.WHAT; at the start is revealing. 20:37
patrickas my @my-array = 4,2,3,4;sub fsort([$p?,*@r]) {if $p || @r {return fsort(@r.grep( {$_ <= $p} )),$p,fsort(@r.grep( {$_ > $p} )) ;}} ;say fsort(@my-array).join(' ');
jnthn I can't help but wonder if it's a closures bug. 20:38
But that seems a long shot.
FardadJalili but what does closure or if have to do with multi? 20:39
jnthn I don't get why if would have anything to do with it.
The closures issue is feasible. (more) 20:40
When we produce a non-multi, the thing that we install into the namespace is a wrapper around a Parrot sub. For multis, the thing is a bit less wrapped. The closures bug we have at the moment is due to those wrappers. 20:41
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jnthn It could just be. 20:41
Anyway, we should file an RT on this one.
I'll re-visit it when the closures stuff is fixed up since that's going to happen anyway in the near future. 20:42
And if it's still there after that, I'll go digging into the dispatch code.
But it'd be an extremely odd bug - especially given you're using a sub-signature, which has to be processed the same way in both single and multi dispatch.
(In terms of how we bind.)
patrickas but this still does not explain why putting the if first fixes it! 20:43
diakopter re: complete vs production-ready, I think it would be helpful to at least document the different opinions on those definitions/distinctions: also "usable" and "useful" 20:45
jnthn patrickas: I don't know -- the if first implies an extra block.
patrickas: Could be enough.
There's certainly *something* wrong here, anyway.
Did anyone submit some Rakudo bug yet? 20:46
sorear Is it legal to add methods to a class after first instantiation? I know it's not so for attributes
moritz_ not
jnthn sorear: Rakudo lets you do what with methods, yes.
sorear Rakudo lets you do a lot of things I don't want to have to support
jnthn sorear: I don't think anything in the Perl 6 spec currently says attributes can't be added to a class after instantiation either.
sorear: It's just a bit nasty to get Rakudo to do that, and low demand, so it's way down the todo list. :-) 20:47
I think by spec both are kosher though. 20:48
The question is whether existing instances are affected or not.
Or if it just installs a new "version" of the class. But that has other issues too.
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jnthn FardadJalili++: Filed it as a bug. 20:50
o/ mberends
You made it. :-)
FardadJalili jnthn: did you just increment me? :) 20:52
jnthn: I'm happy that I could find something.
jnthn: ;)
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jnthn :-) 20:52
lue has gotten sucked into learning about grammatical tenses. Help.
mberends jnthn: only just in time, they expected classes from just after 6pm to just after 10pm. These Swedes are so motivated!
jnthn mberends: Whoa! 20:53
They're really putting you to work here. 20:54
mberends well, they're so nice about it, it's hard to refuse ;)
jnthn ;-) 20:56
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moritz_ my physical modelling blog post attracked about 2k visitors so far 21:02
FardadJalili moritz_: I'm just reading it. amazed that you are a physicist. :) 21:03
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moritz_ well, gotta do something for a living :-) 21:04
sorear physics and programming are pretty synergistic these days 21:05
building partical accellerators: very expensive
moritz_ it's hard to do physics without any programming
or at least programming is a natural approach to many physics problems
sorear also, TimToady is a linguist by education
Math::Model reminds me of some stuff I did a couple years ago 21:06
FardadJalili Richard Stallman was a pysicist too, when I think about it :-?
sorear I had a perl script which accepted a subset of SPICE notation, munged it into C code for runge-kutta, and fed it to gcc
it was cute seeing a perl script run 1,000 times faster than SPICE :) 21:07
moritz_ nice :-) 21:09
well, Math::Model is quite slow right now
pugssvn r31394 | ajs++ | Added some tests for open/close braketing and Unicode para-sep as line break 21:12
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Tene there, pushed %*VM fixes 21:14
dalek kudo: 88210a9 | tene++ | src/glue/run.pir:
Put a Perl 6 Hash in %*VM
 21:16
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Tene no state vars in master? 21:58
mberends no :(
Tene rakudo: sub foo { state $f; say $f++; }; foo for 1..5;
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$f' not predeclared in foo (/tmp/c4t4v99OmJ:11)␤»
Tene :(
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ajs rakudo: eval q{sub p(){ 1 }} 22:08
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 11, near "}"␤»
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ajs That's supposed to quote correctly, right? 22:09
Tene I think so.
jnthn std: eval q{sub p(){ 1 }}
p6eval std 31378: OUTPUT«Can't locate object method "load_pad" via package "STD::P6" at STD.pm line 62221.␤FAILED 00:00 97m␤»
jnthn :/
I think it's quote too.
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Tene rakudo: class A { method new { self.bless( self.CREATE() ); } }; my A $a .= new(); 22:15
p6eval rakudo e298e5: ( no output )
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cygx I was bored, so I wrote something for moritz_' challenge: nopaste.snit.ch/21424 22:32
don't hurt me because the dummy-baclend is in PHP ;) 22:33
Tene okay, one big error in httpd::daemon is: 22:38
rakudo: my $f = "O HAI"; say "<p>$f</p>";
p6eval rakudo e298e5: OUTPUT«Method 'postcircumfix:<{ }>' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤ in main program body at line 1␤»
Tene it's interpreting that as $f{'/p'} 22:39
ajs That's correct, I think
Tene should it? I'm unsure of the interpolation rules. Seems possibly confusing to me, though.
ajs Oh certainly, HTML and XML in double quotes are going to be a major source of problems
We might demand that the interpolation parser get really strict about that, and only accept 22:40
'$' <ident> '<' ~ '>' <something>
where <something> is probably just <ident> 22:41
and treat everything else after the first ident as literal
FardadJalili says goodbye
ajs But that still leaves "$blurb<p>four score and seven</p>" as a problem 22:42
so it's not a solutioon
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jnthn Tene: Correct, afaik. 22:43
Tene: Though that one bit me too.
ajs The nice thing is that you can lexically scope overrides to the parser, so you could do something like write an XML::SafeQuote that issues warnings when it sees somthing that looks like XML in a double-quoted string getting interpreted as Perl 6 syntax. 22:44
jnthn is tired and takes an early night o/ 22:45
ajs Rest well
"use strict" is going to flower into many, many different kinds of interesting syntax pragmas in Perl 6, methinks. 22:47
Heh, I could even imagine a "use Style::Gnu" or "use Style::MyCompany"... that would be kind of cool. 22:48
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cygx see www.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/~cg.../shell.php for an online-version of the frontend 22:56
Tene mberends: I have some updates to http-daemon
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colomon now in the greater Columbus region! \o/ 23:58

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