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Set by moritz_ on 28 December 2010.
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Tene sorear: It very much reminds me of conflicts I've seen between dating and married couples, which is subtly hilarious to me. "We never talk any more. I don't feel that you understand my needs anymore. I'm going to start seeing other people." 00:01
:)
sorear yeah I laughed at the couples therapy line.
Tene I don't think it's a bad metaphor for trying to address the issues, either. 00:02
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[Coke] made sense to me. 00:11
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coldhead it's sad 00:17
pmurias masak: re ++foo --option ++/foo i used to have --option before that, ++foo ++/foo seems to specify what goes to which subpart more specifically 00:20
masak: as for example different backends can have vastly different options
masak I'm not sure I see that as a direct answer to my question. 00:21
it's more of an elucidation of S19, which I don't think I'm less-than-clear on.
shortcircuit sets out to begin translating/rewriting rosettacode.org/wiki/RCRPG/Perl to Perl 6. 00:25
pmurias masak: what are the drawbacks of ++foo? 00:26
shortcircuit wonders what he should use in place of Term::ANSIColor.
pmurias masak: implementing that isn't very hard 00:27
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pmurias masak: and it seems cleaner 00:27
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pmurias masak: the stuff i wanted to pass to mildew's backends ended up very strange 00:28
colomon shortcircuit: I vote you just implement Tem::ANSIColor first. ;)
pmurias like options to the underlying c compiler and stuff 00:29
shortcircuit colomon: I guess I could do that. Though I haven't implemented a P5 module in almost a decade, and have even less of an idea how to do it in P6.
pmurias masak: i could have --backend-cflags but seems inelegant
colomon shortcircuit: it's always good to learn. :) 00:30
masak pmurias: [drawbacks of ++foo] as I see them: specific to Perl 6, no rooting in Unix, introduces mental overhead in the user, introduces model overhead in the implementation.
pmurias why mental overhead to the user?
masak I assume openers and closers have to match up, and not mis-nest. 00:31
there's mental overhead in adhering to those invariants.
just as it is with writing correct XML or whatever.
shortcircuit Is there a construct where something like "my %values :="... would make sense. As, "look this up in this hash, if it doesn't exist, run this code to generate it, and cache the result"?
masak there are not as many ways to go wrong with classical command-line options.
pmurias how have to parse compound names then 00:32
shortcircuit Basically, I've got a scenario where I precalculate a hash's contents based on a transformation of another hash's contents, and I'd prefer to do that lazily.
pmurias so like using prefixes instead of namespaces
like in C
i could live with --backend-* and --parser-* etc. 00:33
sorear shortcircuit: %hash{$key} //= calculate()
pmurias just when i found S19 i was looking exactly for something like that
sorear it's called a shortcirtcuit assignment operator :) 00:34
shortcircuit Oh god...
colomon sorear++
pmurias masak: ghc uses something like that too
colomon rakudo: my %h; %h<blue> //= sin(10); %h<blue> //= 1/0; say %h.perl 00:35
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«{"blue" => -0.54402111088937}␤»
masak pmurias: tell me more.
colomon rakudo: my %h; %h<blue> //= sin(10); %h<blue> //= (1..*).elems; say %h.perl
masak (this sounds familiar for some reason)
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«{"blue" => -0.54402111088937}␤»
colomon rakudo++
sorear haskell_program +RTS -N2 -RTS # run program on 2 cores
actually -RTS can be omitted if it would be at the end. 00:36
colomon rakudo: my %h; %h<blue> //= sin(10); %h<blue> //= (1...*).elems; say %h.perl 00:38
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
colomon rakudo--
shortcircuit: see above. I don't think //= shortcircuits properly in Rakudo.
would love to be wrong about that....
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shortcircuit colomon: That looks like a complicated run, which is a little more than what I'm addressing for the moment. (I don't have an infinite series anywhere here...) 00:42
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sorear perl6: my %h; %h<blue> //= say(1); %h<blue> //= say(2); 00:43
p6eval pugs, niecza v1-203-gbc5d7f7: OUTPUT«1␤»
..rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
masak there you go.
masak submits rakudobug, Justin Case
shortcircuit There wouldn't happen to be a fallback or special hash key, for a 'key not found' scenario? That would be ideal for what I'd like to do. 00:44
masak shortcircuit: KeyHash allows you to set a default. 00:46
but it's NYI in Rakudo.
shortcircuit nods.
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shortcircuit .oO( One could create a ridiculously simple caching proxy using shortcircuit operators, default key values and a filestore backing to Tie to.) 00:48
masak well volunteered! 00:50
shortcircuit Heh. I'm going to stick with my current P5->P6 translation of a terminal-mode game, for now. :) 00:51
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masak 'night, #perl6 00:59
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sorear shortcircuit: undefined values are intended to support the "key not found" case 01:06
any time you think you want to distinguish "key not present" from "key is undef", you're probably doing it wrong. 01:07
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sorear hello whiteknight 01:18
whiteknight hello 01:24
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shortcircuit Hm. 04:38
sorear Yes?
shortcircuit How do I declare constructor arguments for a class? 04:39
(Actually, I'm using class ClassName { ..... }, so I need to see how to declare the implementation, too.)
sorear Every attribute is a constructor argument
shortcircuit Ah. Convenient.
sorear niecza: class Foo { has $.bar }; say Foo.new(bar => 12).bar 04:40
p6eval niecza v1-203-gbc5d7f7: OUTPUT«12␤»
sorear If you want to accept arguments differently, just override new in your class
niecza: class Foo { has $.bar; method new($x) { nextwith(self, bar => $x) } }; say Foo.new(12).bar
p6eval niecza v1-203-gbc5d7f7: OUTPUT«12␤» 04:41
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shortcircuit Any advantage to Sweet. Thanks. 04:42
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shortcircuit If I have a case where I could take method($var) {...}, and handle $var with an if/else latter, I could just as easily write it using a set of multis and no ladder. Any particular considerations for favoring one approach over the other? 04:44
(Also, can the overridden new() be a multi instead of a method?) 04:45
sorear multis and methods, per se, cannot substitute for each other 05:04
you can however use a proto, which is just an ordinary method
any place you can use a method, you can use a proto + a set of methods
set of multis
shortcircuit I wound up using a couple batches of multis to defer to from within the method body.
sorear if you don't have the proto, then things get (not understood by me)
do you know about given/when? it's designed to replace if/else ladders 05:05
shortcircuit Not familiar with them.
sorear rakudo: given 12 { when 10 { say "A" }; when 12 { say "B" }; when 14 { say "C" } } 05:06
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«B␤»
shortcircuit This is what I've written so far. pastebin.com/BS0SMcHT 05:10
(I haven't tested to see that it runs)
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dalek ecza: ffcfc4a | sorear++ | docs/nam.pod:
[nam.pod] Finish documenting low-level format
 05:12
sorear shortcircuit: what you want is ... a hash 05:13
shortcircuit Heh 05:14
sorear shortcircuit: also, I don't recommend assigning (,,,) lists to $variables as this is a rather dark corner of the spec. [,,,] is much better defined.
shortcircuit The problem I'm dealing with for the moment is coming up with a nicer way to deal with %directions and %rdirections in rosettacode.org/wiki/RCRPG/Perl#Code 05:15
Anyway, I'm overdue for bed. I obviously have some reading to do when I get up. :) 05:16
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sorear I'll try my own hand at that task tonight 05:17
shortcircuit Heh; sweet.
I haven't written the ANSI module yet, but I figure I'll wind up doing it, just for greater familiarity with consoles. (I'd like to see if I can query termcaps for it; just outputting raw codes assuming a 20-plus-year-old spec is being honored on the client end seems optimistic these days. 05:19
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chillroses good morning 05:44
sorear shortcircuit: querying termcap is dangerous these days; with a proliferation of slightly different terminals, and ssh, it's increasingly unlikely that the correct terminal description will be available 05:45
hello and welcome chillroses
chillroses thank you 05:46
iam a newbee
would like to know the differences of 5 and 6
sorear shortcircuit: I, uh, comaintain a couple of telnet gaming servers and have had no end of trouble with PuTTy in particular
shortcircuit: PuTTY calls itself "xterm" but defaults to different keypad codes than the ones in xterm-r7's terminfo file 05:47
shortcircuit: postel's prescription is a much safer way to work with terminals, than libtermcap 05:48
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mberends -> moritz_ 06:06
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sorear Who wrote RCRPG/Perl? 07:16
This is ... very unidiomatic code.
TiMBuS timtaswtdi 07:35
sorear phenny: tell colomon &postfix:<L> 07:58
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when colomon is around.
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sorear RCRPG has found two bugs so far in niecza 08:42
but now I must sleep
sorear out
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cxreg what happened to rakudo.org? 08:50
other virtualhosts on that server are responding but that one just dies
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moritz_ good morning 09:45
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masak hola, zebras. 09:47
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moritz_ www.perl-community.de/bat/poard/thread/15903 a proposal for a pythonic frontend for Perl 6 (in German) 10:01
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masak I've had a similar idea -- give Perl 6 a mostly Pythonic syntax -- and I'm basically waiting for more advanced parser hooks to try it out. 10:24
but... getting rid of the sigils? I don't think that's easily done, and besides I don't think it's a good idea. 10:25
tadzik I don't think the lack of sigils makes stuff more readable
moritz_ masak: indeed, that's what I argued in my reply
masak oh, haven't read the reply. 10:26
moritz_ masak: I should blog about the various aspects of sigils, and why removing them isn't easily done
github.com/moritz/nqp-cl-parser if you want to look at some funny command line parsing code :-)
masak moritz_: right, good reply. you brought up more objections than I'd found so far. 10:27
masak looks expectantly :)
moritz_ well, I spent a few minutes thinking about it :-)
masak :) 10:28
by the way, modules.perl6.org/ has an encoding problem. look at the line with perl6-literate.
I'm pretty sure it's not github that has the encoding problem.
tadzik masak: btw, there's no META.info for perl6-literate
just saying. BTW, >50% of modules use the new infrastructure now 10:29
now that masak++ has moved his
masak moritz_: er. variable on github.com/moritz/nqp-cl-parser/bl...r/do.pl#L9 , where is it declared? 10:30
moritz_ you mean $x?
it's a formal parameter
tadzik I have a plenty of plans to launch some module-related services on feather when my exam session is over
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masak tadzik: huh? I see github.com/masak/perl6-literate/co...eb59144386 online, don't you? 10:31
moritz_: no, $!stop-after-first-arg 10:32
which looks very much like an attr.
tadzik masak: oh, must've missed it
masak moritz_: line 9, as I linked to. 10:33
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moritz_ masak: oh, I can't read 10:33
masak moritz_: how can you use an attribute without declaring it? 10:34
moritz_ masak: it's broken, I renamed the attribute to $!b for testing purposes, and accidentally committed
masak oh :(
moritz_ masak: fix pushed... i wanted to find out more about the WTF on line 165 10:35
masak lines 16 and 17... sometimes I think about how to write that using real, encapsulated Perl 6 OO.
as they are now, I think they leak read-writeness.
moritz_ they do, in nqp-rx 10:37
they don't in proper Perl 6
masak are you sure? I think the spec says somewhere that ro-ness only goes down "one level". 10:38
moritz_ sees only one level
masak I'm talking about the general case.
a .deep-clone would be needed to do it right in the general case. 10:39
moritz_ well, if you have objects inside the attribute, ... right
masak objects or no, I wouldn't want to hand out a reference to *anything* that's only meant to be changed from within the object,
dalek : 1288837 | moritz++ | misc/dalek-conf.json:
[dalek-conf] fix channel for nqp-cl-parser
 10:40
masak Josh Bloch calls it "making defensive copies". it's important both for getters and constructors/setters. 10:41
it's basically the OO twist on "user data can't be trusted".
moritz_ nods, although he can't connect the name Josh Bloch to anything 10:44
masak moritz_: "Effective Java", "Java Puzzlers", Java Collections, java.math :) 10:46
moritz_ masak: that explains it - I'm not strong in the Java universe 10:47
masak moritz_: [nqp-cl-parser] looks very nice. 10:48
moritz_ masak: thanks
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moritz_ phenny: tell felliott that he has commit access to perl6/specs too, and is welcome to commit obvious fixes himself 11:17
phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when felliott is around.
dalek ecs: a68bbb1 | (Fitz Elliott)++ | S19-commandline.pod:
[S19] break up unintentional pod formatting code
 11:20
ecs: e144eac | (Fitz Elliott)++ | S32-setting-library/Containers.pod:
[S32:Containers] fix broken link to Type Declarations, now in S29
moritz_ was just about to commit that too
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dalek p-rx/nom: 29337fb | moritz++ | src/metamodel/reprs/P6opaque.c:
distinguish "P6opaque attributes" error messages (no additional value for the user)
 11:59
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masak misses hugme 13:11
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colomon sorear++ 14:29
phenny colomon: 07:58Z <sorear> tell colomon &postfix:<L>
colomon testing it now. 14:30
moritz_ masak: it seems that hugme's auto-rejoin doesn't work well on netsplits 14:31
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colomon pushed. 14:35
felliott Thanks, moritz_!
phenny felliott: 11:17Z <moritz_> tell felliott that he has commit access to perl6/specs too, and is welcome to commit obvious fixes himself
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colomon looks like causality is going backwards on #perl6 this morning. ;) 14:36
felliott I live backwards in time.
It's a problem.
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shortcircuit sorear: Yeah, I'm familiar with PuTTY troubles. I use PuTTY everwhere I use Windows, and it's royal PITA to get things set up properly. 14:40
sorear: I wrote RCRPG/Perl. I've been hoping someone would clean it up for ages. 14:41
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shortcircuit felliott: So it goes. 14:43
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jnthn Good afternoon, #perl6 15:41
phenny jnthn: 29 Jan 19:33Z <moritz_> tell jnthn that I get a nasty "P6opaque attributes NYFI" error when I uncomment the hilighted line (165) in github.com/moritz/nqp-cl-parser/bl...do.pl#L165 in what seems like a simple scalar attribute access - any idea what's wrong?
colomon o\ 15:42
jnthn moritz_: I commented on the commit but I think it's just that nqp-rx doesn't parse - in attribute names, and the undeclared attribute check at compile time is NYI.
Or maybe something like that
Maybe not though
o/ colomon
jnthn will take a look
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sorear good * #perl6 15:54
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moritz_ jnthn: I replied to your comment... change the attribute to $!foo doesn't fix it 15:58
jnthn moritz_: OK, then it's a $weird_bug 15:59
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moritz_ jnthn: I've added numbers to the error messages to distinguish the cases... it's the first occurence in the file that throws the error 15:59
jnthn Thanks, that's helpful. 16:00
sorear shortcircuit: gist.github.com/802968 # My version of RCRPG/Perl 6. Contains several workarounds for bugs not present in Rakudo
jnthn moritz_: Just getting an up to date build on the laptop. :) 16:02
Didn't hack on this machine for a month. :)
shortcircuit sorear: Wow; there's a lot of syntax in here I'll need to wrap my head around. 16:09
colomon sorear: postfix:<L> was a lovely suggestion, and I have made it so. 16:14
sorear shortcircuit: I will answer any requests for clarification 16:15
[Coke] rakudo: my @a = 1..4; say @a[1..*].perl 16:19
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
moritz_ @a[1..*-1] works
[Coke] that's new.
ah. not that new. (RT #64566) 16:20
sorear niecza: my %foo; if !%foo<hi>:exists { say "..." } # Is this correct?
p6eval niecza v1-204-gffcfc4a: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to SAFE prefix:<!>, unused named exists␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 0 (SAFE prefix:<!> @ 0)␤ at /tmp/RTr5rVn9TU line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 2)␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 1037 (SAFE C432_ANON @
..1)␤ at /home/p…
[Coke] wishes that he could use gmail style keyboard shortcuts in RT. :P
moritz_ sorear: I don't think so 16:21
saying ... would be the correct answer
shortcircuit sorear: sub command() is a very strange beast to me, or, at least, the subsequent lines of command [supported args], (string), number, -> $var { block } 16:23
sorear It's just a function with four arguments 16:24
-> sig { block } is just a lambda 16:25
jnthn moritz_: ping 16:29
moritz_ jnthn: pong 16:30
jnthn moritz_: How do I reproduce the failure? 16:31
moritz_: If I take github.com/moritz/nqp-cl-parser/ra...ster/do.pl and run it, I get all 17 passing.
[Coke] where would a test for / <[a-z]> / go? S05-?
moritz_ jnthn: yep, you need to comment out line 165
[Coke] metachars?
jnthn moritz_: d'oh :) 16:32
moritz_ [Coke]: S05-metasyntax/charset.t probably 16:33
[Coke] moritz_: danke.
moritz_ [Coke]++
jnthn moritz_: OK, reproduce it. 16:34
*reproduced
moritz_: I'm confused. 16:35
moritz_: $!stop-after-first-arg is declared as an attribute in CLIParseResult
moritz_: But you try to access it in CommandLineParser
moritz_ jnthn: d'oh
jnthn: when I move it to CommandLineParser, I get "P6opaque attributes NYFI 4" 16:36
previously 1
oh wait
I do the initialization in the wrong class too
jnthn moritz_: You have an accessor for it in CLIParseResult
moritz_ jnthn: it should all be in the parser class... and works then 16:37
jnthn moritz_: OK
moritz_ so it seems my problem is just with imperfect error reporting
jnthn moritz_: Yeah, what should happen is that it tells you at compile time, "hang on...that attr doesn't exist" 16:38
Will add that check soon. :)
moritz_ \o/ 16:39
jnthn Anyway, glad I've not got a really super-obscure bug to find. :) 16:40
moritz_ it just needed another pair of eyes :-)
[Coke] there is no builtin Test sub for checking an exception message, yes?
(so i have to handroll an eval and check the message?) 16:41
moritz_ correct :(
jnthn No built-in Test sub in...which test module/language/project? :) 16:42
shortcircuit sorear: Any problem with me taking the gist and putting it on RC?
moritz_ jnthn: Perl 6 16:43
jnthn, [Coke] I plan to have a throws_ok which checks the kind of exception that's thrown 16:44
jnthn I thought we had dies_ok?
[Coke] moritz_: hurm. / <[a-z]> / seems to not be catchable by try {}
moritz_ [Coke]: it's a compile time bug
and try { } is run time
so you need eval ''
[Coke] *facepalm* 16:45
danke.
jnthn: *dies_ok just checks to see if $! was set.
is there a better way to reset $! than try { 1 } ? 16:48
(is lexically scoping it sufficient? 16:50
sorear you need eval_dies_ok 16:51
[Coke] eval_dies_ok doesn't check the value of $! either, methinks. 16:52
sorear shortcircuit: no, although it seems like for consistency it should be ported to Rakudo
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[Coke] is there a doc on writing spec tests? like "here's how to fudge just that one test you rewrote so you can test things reasonably fast." ;) 16:54
shortcircuit sorear: I saw the TODO line at the top, but I'm not familiar enough with Perl6 or rakudo to know the bugs in question (or necessarily where they'd apply in the body of the code.) 16:55
sorear: Which implementation was this tested with? 16:56
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sorear niecza 16:59
[Coke] moritz_: I cannot seem to construct something where /<[a-z]>/ is catchable. 17:00
rakudo: eval "/<[a-z]>/" 17:01
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: ( no output )
[Coke] ... that is not what it does locally. :P
shortcircuit sorear: Does Niecza have an project page somewhere describing it? (i.e. what it is, how it differs from other P6 implementations, etc)
[Coke] bah. behaves differently in REPL. 17:02
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shortcircuit would like to get a P6 Implementation page properly set-up for Niecza. 17:03
Hm. github.com/sorear/niecza Looks like a good reference target. 17:04
sorear docs/announce.initial is probably the best executive summary 17:07
moritz_ rakudo: eval '/<[a-z]>/; say "alive, error was $!" 17:09
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "eval '/<[a"␤»
moritz_ rakudo: eval '/<[a-z]>/'; say "alive, error was $!" 17:10
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«alive, error was Unsupported use of - as character range;in Perl 6 please use .. at line 1, near "z]>/"␤»
shortcircuit sorear: rosettacode.org/wiki/Niecza 17:12
Hack that up however needed.
sorear I should get an account, huh. 17:14
dalek ecza: b0c5160 | sorear++ | src/ (3 files):
Mergeback
ecza: ae2f23a | sorear++ | src/STD.pm6:
Fix crash in "strange text after block" error
shortcircuit sorear: Nothing stops you from editing anonymously, except a bunch more CAPTCHAs. :)
(The CAPTCHAs continue while logged in for a while, but die off after an internal metric is met.) 17:15
masak s/metric/threshold/
dalek p-cl-parser: 9bdd79d | moritz++ | do.pl:
sometimes I am so stupid it hurts. jnthn++
 17:16
masak moritz_: I know the feeling... :/
sorear shortcircuit: Where does the documentation still say "Perl 5"?
ummm... I can't find the login link 17:18
oh found it
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[Coke] wow. this is incredibly frustrating. ;) 17:19
is there a way to get the harness to spit out "got FOO, expected BAR" ? 17:22
... ah. t/harness --fudge <file> doesn't actually refudge the file. 17:23
... no, it does. I give up. :)
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moritz_ rakudo: use Test; is 'a', 'b'; 17:28
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤# got: 'a'␤# expected: 'b'␤»
sorear shortcircuit: actually I suppose it will still be Perl 5 until tomorrow if you stick to released versions...
moritz_ [Coke]: that does give the diagnostic message 17:29
sorear shortcircuit: I meant to say bugs *not* in Rakudo 17:33
shortcircuit: for instance
rakudo: say ['gold' xx 9].perl # This is the best way to write the line 17:34
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«["gold", "gold", "gold", "gold", "gold", "gold", "gold", "gold", "gold"]␤»
sorear niecza: say ['gold' xx 9].perl # Oops
p6eval niecza v1-206-gae2f23a: OUTPUT«[]␤WRONG ExitRunloop TAKEN:␤ at line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0)␤Correct:␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 533 (SAFE List.perl @ 5)␤ at /tmp/ba2ss6hPQs line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 3)␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 1037 (SAFE C432_ANON @ 1)␤ at
../home/p6eval/nie…
sorear pugs: say ['gold' xx 9].perl # just curious
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«["gold", "gold", "gold", "gold", "gold", "gold", "gold", "gold", "gold"]␤»
moritz_ where's the bug? in xx or in .perl? 17:35
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sorear moritz_: it appears to be in &map 17:36
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ubunturocks :) 17:44
perl6 gonna be mainstream soon?
sorear That's up to you. 17:45
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masak ubunturocks: it's good you came. we need your help. 17:45
we need people to test-drive Perl 6 before it goes mainstream. shake out some bugs, etc. 17:47
we have some people doing this, but it'd be great with one more.
ubunturocks: do you have what it takes? :)
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masak are you willing and able? 17:48
sorear guess not.
jnthn ...he may, but his connection doesn't.
sorear oh.
jnthn is hungry
bbiab
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dalek ecza: 786a885 | sorear++ | lib/Builtins.cs:
Fix lazy cases of map and grep
 18:35
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thundergnat Hello #perl6 18:50
masak: BTW, RT #83002 is a dup of RT #77420 18:51
rakudo: my @g; @g[^2]».[^6] »=» 0; @g.perl.say 18:52
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«[[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]]␤»
thundergnat rakudo: my @g; @g[^2]>>.[^6] >>+=>> 0; @g.perl.say;
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«[[0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]]␤»
thundergnat rakudo: my @g; @g[^2]>>.[^6] >>=>> 0; @g.perl.say;
p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing << or >> at line 22, near "> 0; @g.pe"␤»
thundergnat No it isn't :-/ 18:53
std: my @g; @g[^2]>>.[^6] >>=>> 0; @g.perl.say;
p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing << or >> at /tmp/Bc93YUWpWg line 1:␤------> my @g; @g[^2]>>.[^6] >>=>⏏> 0; @g.perl.say;␤ expecting infix_circumfix_meta_operator␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
thundergnat Phooey. 18:54
Seems kind of crappy that »=» is ok but >>=>> isn't. 18:55
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dalek p-cl-parser: 9c18ca4 | moritz++ | do.pl:
test for stop-after-first-arg
 19:12
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sorear moritz_, et al: What kind of attribution should I have when I steal functions from Rakudo's setting one at a time? 20:05
masak Rakudo's LICENSE: "You may Distribute verbatim copies of the Source form of the Standard Version of this Package in any medium without restriction [...] provided that you duplicate all of the original copyright notices and associated disclaimers." 20:07
"You are permitted to link Modified and Standard Versions with other works, to embed the Package in a larger work of your own [...] provided the result does not expose a direct interface to the Package." 20:09
sorear: since Niecza is also licensed with Artistic 2.0, I see very little problem. 20:11
of course, a little attribution is a kind gesture, if nothing else. 20:13
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jnthn sorear: Seems like since you're under the same license, then the associated disclaimers are covered; that just leaves the copyright notices. 20:24
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jnthn sorear: I very much doubt there'd be any expectation to flag up with routines have which copyright, though. 20:25
sorear: Just some blanket "Portions copyright ..." or so would (IMHO, IANAL) do.
moritz_ "Part of this file is Copyright (C) 2010, 2011 by The Perl Foundation" 20:26
jnthn *nod*
Something like that.
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sorear ok. 20:48
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tadzik screen-- 20:52
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sorear tadzik: try tmux 21:23
tadzik sorear: is it on feather?
sorear if it's not, I'll install it 21:24
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tadzik it is, I'll check it out in some spare time 21:24
sorear I switched a few months ago (doy++)... it's much better at KISS 21:25
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pmichaud jnthn: ping 21:48
jnthn, moritz, others: draft nqp plan at pmichaud.com/sandbox/nqp.txt 21:50
comments and revisions welcomed
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jnthn pmichaud: Great! Will read now. :) 21:52
pmichaud I'll mention on #parrot shortly -- when we're happy with the text I'll post to parrot-dev and perl6-compiler
and maybe also to my blog
jnthn Your blog lives now? :) 21:53
pmichaud no, but it's a reasonable first-post :)
and I can make it live pretty much whenever I want
(everything is in place, I'm just needing a good post)
I expect I'll be tweaking the blog a fair bit over time
jnthn pmichaud: "multisub dispatch" in first para - just "multiple dispatch" 21:54
pmichaud: It handles multi-method dispatch too.
pmichaud right 21:55
fixed
(reload to see changes if/when you want)
jnthn The new nqp also contains a replacement implementation of multiple 22:03
dispatch -- it no longer makes use of the Parrot MultiSub PMC type.
That's true, but may be worth mentioning that it's to get consistent semantics with Perl 6 so we're a truer subset. 22:04
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allbery_b observes, apropos of several discussions elseirc, that while people grumble about p6's incompatibilities with p5, they're ignoring the fact that python and ruby are already causing havoc in that way 22:27
pmichaud yes, python has been incompatible with perl 5 for quite a while. :-P :-P
colomon Yes, both python and ruby are quite in.... what pmichaud said. :)
pmichaud I think we hope to be able to fix that in Perl 6 :-P 22:28
jnthn They're just DSLs in Perl 6, right? ;_) 22:29
colomon pmichaud: just built a new layout for my guy. Two different elevated sections, the turntable, and Brendham Docks. ;)
perigrin pmichaud: you have plans in perl6 to make python more compatible with perl5?
*that* I have to see.
colomon perigrin: we're quite ambitious. ;)
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tadzik hey, that was supposed to be Parrot, right? ;) 22:37
. o O ( dollar_underscore )
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allbery_b heh 22:45
no, ruby isn't compatible with itself between releases, and the problems with pythion 2.x vs python 3 are approaching the status of legend
...yet it's perl 6 that everyone seems to whine about
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pmichaud perl 6 is often held to a different standard. That's okay, we hold it to different standards also. :-) 22:47
tadzik python has problems between 2.6 and 2.7 even. 3 was _supposed_ to be incompatibile
perigrin perl has (some) problems between 5.10 and 5.12 and 5.13 22:48
6 is spposed to be incompatible :)
There are moments where I have a horrible suspicion that if someone were to release Perl6 as a brand new langauge without a name that matched qr/^Perl/; 22:49
people would love it
allbery_b I hear that from a lot of people, actually
it isn't perl 6 that annoys them per se, they're annoyed that it's still called perl 22:50
perigrin I'm thinking less about the Perl community
allbery_b which is pretty much what I was ranting about there :)
perigrin and more about the people who hate on anything that matches qr/^Perl/
allbery_b I'm not talking about the perl community either, I'm talking random programmers, sysadmins, etc. who are annoyed that their little pigeonholes are being violated (possibly in several senses, in their opinions) 22:51
perigrin nods
it's water under the bridge now 22:52
we have the brandings we have
also I don't have a single perl6 talk submitted to YAPC::NA yet 22:53
is everybody gonna wait till the deadline?
*sniff*
colomon when's the deadline?
I've been pondering going.
perigrin the deadline is in March
colomon actually, when's the conference, for that matter? :)
perigrin but we've been doing early acceptances
the conference is June 27-29th 22:54
pmichaud I've been considering skipping conferences this year
colomon the thing is, there's not a lot of point for me to talk if people like pmichaud are around.
perigrin I would consider that except I'm the freeking organizer
they expect me to attend.
colomon: um
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perigrin Perl6 has the same problems Perl5 has except larger 22:54
not enough people talking about the cool stuff that their language allows them to do 22:55
pmichaud colomon: it's *always* worth hearing from people other than the "principals"
perigrin exactly
pmichaud colomon: I think a talk describing what you've done with the various math components of Rakudo would be.... very well received
and much more impressive than a talk from me on a topic like that
perigrin people *expect* pmichaud and jnthn and TimToady to be excited about Perl6 ... they tune it out after a while
having new people show new excitment is important 22:56
pmichaud I know that for the places I've been, it's the talks from people other than the principals that get the most buzz
colomon I've also never given any sort of talk like this before. :) Though I am tentatively scheduled to give a talk at Penguicon in late April. 22:57
perigrin colomon: honestly YAPC or a Perl workshop is the easiest place to give your first talk
pmichaud it's definitely worth making this a first talk then. yapc audiences tend to be very friendly
perigrin we have a *far* lower bar than OSCON or some such :) 22:58
pmichaud exactly as perigrin++ says
perigrin I gave my first talk at a YAPC
and I sucked horribly
pmichaud imo, the friendly nature of yapc audiences makes for more interesting and useful talks
shortcircuit sorear: Sorry about that; was afk for a few hours.
perigrin we have a really good crop of talks submitted so far
but I've been pushing non-technical talks in the perl5 world 22:59
colomon: also if you submit *now* 23:00
you get a free slurpee
cause I promised free slurpees to the next 5 submissions
and I've gotten 3 so far
colomon My wife thinks I should give one too. (Conversation here now.) Though it may be she just wants to go to North Carolina. :) 23:02
shortcircuit sorear: I don't recall where I found that Niecza was written in Perl 5, but I found it in what seemed a cannon source. I'll see if I can find it again; it sounds like that'll need to be corrected.
perigrin colomon: www.yapc2011.us/yn2011 # the picture doesn't lie :)
colomon "Oh, that's pretty!" 23:03
perigrin that's about 1hr north of Ashville looking back towards it
but it's representative of the mountains
colomon I don't suppose you can guarantee John Doyle will be in town? ;) 23:04
perigrin uh ... I'd have to know who he is first I suspect
colomon www.johndoylemusic.com/
perigrin no sadly I can't. 23:06
colomon Didn't figure you could. I'm pretty sure he lives in Ashville these days, when he's not out touring.
shortcircuit sorear: Ah. I think it was this bit: www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6....sg641.html (followed by your noting github.com/sorear/niecza/blob/mast...ce.initial )
pmurias shortcircuit: niecza wa rewritten in Perl 6 23:07
shortcircuit pmurias: So I gather.
perigrin colomon: I wouldn't be surprised. The area is *packed* with traditional and folk music.
colomon It's getting harder and harder to say no.... :) 23:08
perigrin which considering the scotch / irish settled the area isn't surprising
colomon Okay, I'm tentatively planning on going and giving a talk, but I owe Ambercon a slew of game submissions first, so I probably will have have to forego the slurpie. 23:15
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sorear pmurias: do you want to write anything about -Bclisp for the v2 mailing? 23:33
shortcircuit pmurias, sorear: Would either of you like to go in, edit and improve rosettacode.org/wiki/Niecza ? 23:35
Rosetta Code isn't Wikipedia; I _like_ having people involved who know what they're talking about.
sorear shortcircuit: you misread a line of mine. I said the code has workarounds for bugs NOT in Rakudo 23:36
i.e. the code will be simpler if Rakudo is used 23:37
shortcircuit sorear: Yeah, I saw your correction, and corrected the relevant page on RC.
sorear shortcircuit: I'm not really skilled at this "writing for an unknown audience" thing 23:39
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shortcircuit sorear: Understood. RC has a built-in audience of programmers, so a perspective as assumed for your original Niecza announcement is reasonable. 23:41
Hm. If you have any concerns about the content of the page, and aren't comfortable making the edit, mention it here, in #rosettacode, or on the page's talk page. Something will likely come of it. 23:43
shortcircuit needs to give thought to the perspective of facing the 'unknown audience'; that might be a major existing non-technical barrier to contributing to the wiki in general. 23:44
pmurias sorear: it's not really at the stage when it's ready to be annonuced 23:45
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diakopter seems to arrive at #perl6 often slightly after pmurias' departure 23:58
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masak lol; blogged. strangelyconsistent.org/blog/the-thing-with-nim 23:59
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