»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 3 May 2013.
colomon_phone He's checked in obviously... 00:00
diakopter just tell them you're on that reservation
I'll be right down to knock some heads
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raiph timotimo: aiui moarvm has adequate gc and jit stories 00:03
(re pypy as alternate to moarvm)
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colomon_phone diameter , we're good now 00:13
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tadzik grumbles at delayed flight 00:21
although it's nice that they refer to passengers as "you guys" 00:22
it has this friendly touch
lue colomon_phone: does your phone use autocorrect? :) 00:30
colomon_phone Yes
japhb_ auto-do-the-wrong-thing 00:31
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lue .oO[ Autocorrect isn't stupid. It's just optimized for a small, narrow subset of common language. If the "auto" wasn't there, there'd be no complaints :) ] 00:32
geekosaur .oO { autoincorrect } 00:33
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dalek rl6-roast-data: 4510272 | coke++ | / (4 files):
today (automated commit)
 00:40
TimToady
.oO(autocorrupt)
 00:41
dalek ast: a53aa97 | coke++ | S32-num/int.t:
pugs fudge
 00:43
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tadzik the problem, imho, is that it assumes you are wrong and, well, autocorrects 00:49
not autosuggests
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dalek kudo-star-daily: e9e085f | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
today (automated commit)
 01:14
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timotimo i can't build moarvm because apparently apr.h is missing 02:17
(and installing the -dev package for libapr1 doesn't help) 02:18
but now it's time to get some sleep
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FROGGS o/ 02:22
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geekosaur timotimo: may need to tell it where apr lives, on my Mint the header is /usr/include/apr-1.0/apr.h 02:25
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pmichaud arrives at the doubletree 03:00
TimToady welcome!
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diakopter hi 03:11
Teratogen howdy
what is happening in Austin?
diakopter could someone who's met tadzik before come with me to the airport to pick him up at 1 a.m
japhb_ timotimo, join #moarvm, and then we can figure out build problems there .... 03:12
Teratogen I would, but I am in Tempe, Arizona
census hi diakopter!
when does the conference begin? tomorrow? 03:13
pmichaud diakopter: I can do that 03:14
diakopter pmichaud: awesome
pmichaud conference begins monday, hackathons and tutorials tomorrow
diakopter well, today
pmichaud well, yes, there were some today
they start for *me* tomorrow :)
diakopter: meet when/where to go to airport? 03:15
diakopter lemme track his flight; sec
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pmichaud diakopter: I'm going to run to the store quickly; will check back on airport time 03:23
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japhb_ pmichaud, is there currently a link somewhere that always points to the *newest* Rakudo Star tarball/msi? 03:36
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pmichaud japhb_: (link) not at present, no. 04:10
we can certainly create one.
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sorear hihi. 04:22
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tadzik hey 06:05
I'm at doubletree, but the wrong one apparently 06:06
this one is 6070 pr 6017 or something
could someone drop diakopter a call or something? I think we missed each other 06:07
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tadzik ok, I'm found anf fine :) 06:38
TimToady \o/ 06:39
rindolf Hi all.
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atroxaper Hello! 06:39
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moritz \o 09:44
nwc10 o/ 09:52
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dalek c: 2814352 | GlitchMr++ | lib/Int.pod:
expmod and is-prime aren't operators.
 10:08
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moritz anyway, back to the topic of those operators that want their types known at compile time 10:25
what's the use case?
beyond a desparate case of premature optimization, that is
timotimo yes, premature all the optimizations! 10:35
huf pedobear the programmer? 10:36
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moritz timotimo: no honestly, is there a use case except optimization? 10:39
timotimo exploding even sooner at compile time than before is the only one i can think of 10:40
moritz I'm not convinced, for the following reasons: 10:41
1) it seems we have many performance issues not related to dispatching at all; I think we're attacking from the wrong angle here, and not attacking the real culprit
2) such a feature should probably belong to the caller, not to the callee 10:43
timotimo that seems sensible, indeed.
moritz the callee doesn't care whether it got the right types at run time or a compile time; it's the caller that cares (in terms of optimization)
3) we have many operators take (Any, Any) and then coerce; so in nearly all cases, such a trait would be a noop 10:47
*that take
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atroxaper Does anybody know where i can find .fmt implementation? 11:59
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tadzik various places in src/core 12:01
(assuming you mean rakudo)
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tadzik atroxaper: gist.github.com/tadzik/5693435 12:02
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atroxaper tadzik: Oh... It's great way! Thank you. 12:10
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colomon o/ 12:23
arnsholt \o
tadzik: You in the lobby or your room? =)
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tadzik arnsholt: still in the room 12:28
arnsholt: are you in the lobby? I'll be there in 2 minutes
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arnsholt tadzik: Still in the room 12:31
colomon's just jumped in the shower, but I'll drag him down to the lobby as soon as he's out 12:32
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arnsholt I need some breakfast, as well 12:32
tadzik okay, I'm sitting near the reception, will wait for you guys 12:34
arnsholt Cool. Sounds like the shower's stopped, so not too long now, I think 12:36
tadzik heh 12:37
I feel like ine Big Brother :D 12:38
colomon putting on shoes...
tadzik can't wait 12:42
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lizmat morning #perl6! 12:57
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FROGGS[mobile] morning 13:36
grondilu morning
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 14:03
nwc10 is it cooler than Frankfurt? 14:04
pmichaud so far, yes. 14:05
20degC at the moment (at 09h00)
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dukeleto o/ 14:06
github.com is down, in case y'all didn't notice
push/pull and website is borked
nwc10 perl5.git.perl.org/ is up
pmichaud today's high is expected to be 32degC
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pmichaud "14:00 UTC We are investigating issues with our database server" -- status.github.com 14:10
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anocelot Wait, github is down? I'm in the git training today. :D 14:13
So it is. LOL
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colomon o/ 14:18
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pmichaud anyone at the hackathon venue yet? 14:39
FROGGS pmichaud: yes 14:40
8 ppl or so
pmichaud I'll head that way then.
FROGGS \o/
the TCC building is on the north side of the roadworks (so between the roadworks and the I.35, but directly near the roadworks) 14:41
I walked a bit to figure that out
pmichaud no problem, I'll be driving my car to the parking lot :)
already got my map
anocelot That's good, because the UT website is down for maint. 14:43
FROGGS anocelot: ya :/
but no problem, so I had the chance to see some squirrels
anocelot FROGGS: They're pretty acrobatic here. 14:44
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jnthn makes it to the hackathon o/ 15:04
FROGGS \o/ 15:05
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FROGGS it is more some of slideathon, ehh? :o) 15:05
jnthn well, my slides have hacking dependencies :P
FROGGS maybe I'll use the night more for slide rather than this time
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masak rezzes o/ 15:08
hello from the pre-YAPC::NA hackathon, Austin, TX! \o/
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colomon jnthn: Not sure how we beat you here... 15:13
anocelot Looks like github is back up now. 15:18
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moritz waves to the hackathoneers 15:32
colomon o/ 15:33
lizmat moritz /o
colomon 71.10.146.50:3001/report # new look, not sure it's an improvement
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FROGGS ohh, all these colors :o) 15:34
moritz colomon: I'd propose to leave out the question marks with black background 15:35
moritz should fix MiniDBI
colomon moritz: FROGGS is trying to find the CPAN smoker page to steal... he's got it. 15:37
FROGGS colomon: www.cpantesters.org/distro/S/SDL.html#SDL-2.540
colomon FROGGS++
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FROGGS but maybe someone should just play a bit with the html and make a design 15:38
colomon I'd very gratefully accept contributions... 15:42
colomon is busy stealing colors
there's a good bit of additional information that should probably go up, too.
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TimToady UT maps are back up too 15:44
though you can just find TCC on google maps 15:45
colomon 71.10.146.50:3001/report
updated, duller colors.
err, less insane colors
hidden question marks
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FROGGS colomon: I'm giving it a try 15:47
(after coffee) 15:48
anocelot TimToady: Yeah; that's what I eventually did. :) 15:51
masak colomon++ # 71.10.146.50:3001/report 15:52
I might get around to fixing some of my modules today. 15:53
first priority is my talks, though.
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masak colomon: could I donate a new yellow to you? I know yellow is really hard to get right in these kinds of status diagrams. 15:55
colomon masak: I'd love it.
masak ok, hold on.
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dalek kudo/nom: af2b6ce | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.nqp:
A temporary fix for faster module loading

  *All* directories and *all* types were being checked, whereas always only the
first was being used. This quick fix short-circuits search as soon as the first candidate is found.		 15:59
kudo/nom: 0020ef7 | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.nqp:
Merge pull request #145 from lizmat/fastermoduleload

A temporary fix for faster module loading
masak colomon: suggest red => #d22, yellow => #ff5, green => #1c1. also suggest the yellow have black text, #000. the other two can have white text, I think.
(tested in inkscape against the same grey background as the page has.)
colomon okay, will try that once I've got my current change tested. :)
masak cool.
dalek kudo/nom: 0f88d34 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/ (2 files):
Fix for autoviv Typed hash problem

As suggested by jnthn. I think there is a ticket for this, but do not know its number.
kudo/nom: 7d5480e | lizmat++ | /:
Merge pull request #146 from lizmat/autovivtypedhash

Fix for autoviv Typed hash problem
tadzik I get build failures in nqp, ./nqp --target=pir --output=src/stage2/gen/NQPP5QRegex.pir \ 16:01
src/stage2/gen/NQPP5QRegex.nqp
exists_keyed_str() not implemented in class 'ResizableStringArray'
colomon has royally broken his code
lizmat fwiw, I'm utilizing by brand new commit bit to merge my own pull requests :-) 16:02
masak oh noes what have we done 16:03
j/k, lizmat++ :D
tadzik :)
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dalek kudo/nom: 88dae22 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Fix for "exists" handling on typed hashes

Made in cooperation with jnthn++ and moritz++		 16:04
kudo/nom: 6973abb | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Hash.pm:
Suggested change by jnthn

See irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-05-28#i_7124130 . Spectested ok.
kudo/nom: 99c82d3 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Merge pull request #147 from lizmat/existstypedhash

Fix for "exists" handling on typed hashes
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masak gdey: \o 16:13
gdey masak:hello 16:14
masak gdey: again, let me know as soon as you get stuck; either IRL or here. :)
gdey Will do thanks!
moritz it seems lizmat++ has commit access to rakudo. \o/
colomon \o/ 16:15
masak I was convinced RT had a ticket about .perl infinite-regressing on things like 'my $a = []; $a.push($a); $a.perl' -- but I looked, twice, carefully, and I cannot find it.
anyone else want to have a go -- or should I just create a Justin Case ticket about it?
moritz I'm also convinced that we have a ticket for that 16:16
I'll try to find it 16:17
masak I searched for '.perl' -- 50 tickets, but not that one. then I searched for 'infinite' -- 34 tickets, but not that one.
masak searches in his mailbox, too
tadzik /me has a "what idiot wrote that" moment looking at github.com/tadzik/panda/blob/maste...tem.pm#L51 16:18
and I'm quite sure it was me
colomon tadzik: one of the great joys of being a programmer 16:19
tadzik yeah
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dalek kudo/nom: d670aaa | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.nqp:
Oops, we had a diff + in there that wasn't supposed to be there
 16:19
tadzik does anyone around know how ./configure --prefix usually works, and can explain it to me?
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hoelzro tadzik: how do you mean? 16:22
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tadzik hoelzro: well, as far as I understand it, what you put in --prefix somehow affects the source code itself 16:23
I wonder how does that work, istr there's a config.h or so?
hoelzro right
moritz masak: I can't find it either :(
masak submits rakudobug 16:24
hoelzro if I were writing C, I would probably write prefix >> config.h
tadzik I'm trying to make --prefix work for panda, so I need to alter bin/panda
hoelzro it's a bit trickier for a language like Perl =/
but you could have a Config.pm or something I guess
tadzik I can just put ###CHOCOLATECAKE on top of the file, and then s/// it
masak r: my $a = []; $a.push($a); say $a.perl; say "alive"
camelia rakudo 99c82d: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
tadzik well, Config.pm may not work, because I also need to alter the module loading process
I need panda to be entirely self-contained, so installing new modules or new versions will never confuse it 16:25
so I'll be putting all its deps along with it
moritz masak: rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=58922
masak looks 16:26
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moritz masak: it seems that [Coke]++ has migrated to be a spec issue (which it also is) 16:26
and then rejected it
masak oh!
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moritz maybe re-open it, and stall it until the spec issue is resolved 16:26
masak it's an issue on roast; I should probably migrate it to specs. 16:27
moritz oh
masak does that
oh; already done.
github.com/perl6/specs/issues/6
dalek kudo/nom: 4c6ef79 | labster++ | src/core/IO.pm:
make dir() lazy; written while waiting for plane to YAPCNA
 16:31
kudo/nom: 9557da2 | (Brent Laabs)++ | src/core/IO.pm:
Merge pull request #161 from labster/nom

make dir() lazy; written while waiting for plane to YAPCNA
masak commented on github.com/perl6/specs/issues/6 16:32
tadzik labster++
nice one
labster I did make it safely to the hackathon :)
moritz labster++
colomon labster++ 16:33
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moritz jnthn: I have a fix for JSON::Path; want to give me a commit bit, or do you prefer pull requests? 16:35
jnthn commkt bit 16:36
colomon rn: say $Inf 16:37
jnthn moritz: you got one
camelia niecza v24-55-g7942a09: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Variable $Inf is not predeclared at /tmp/i13FYgoTks line 1:␤------> say ⏏$Inf␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1502 (die @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecz…
..rakudo 99c82d: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
moritz jnthn: tusen takk; fix pushed
jnthn takk *you*
masak :) 16:38
moritz var så gud
dalek p/rak-jvm-support: cd35271 | jonathan++ | src/vm/parrot/6model/reprs/NativeCall.c:
Add missing gc_mark registration.
masak you people attempting Scandinavian -- it's so cute!
tadzik takk for i dag 16:39
moritz masak: understanding is quite OK, speaking... well. Writing is really hard for me though
masak tadzik: impressive. 16:41
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masak moritz: I have the same with German. 16:41
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moritz colomon: can you please nopaste/gist the test output for DateTime::Format? I just got no test failures, and wonder why 71.10.146.50:3001/project/DateTime::Format shows it red 16:41
colomon moritz: give me a minute or two 16:42
moritz and the last commit was May 06, so it's not a recent fix
tadzik my german showoff is "Ich besischtige die sehenswuerdigkeiten", or something
moritz s/sch/ch/but otherwise correct
tadzik I'm good at pronouncing it :)
moritz so you are :-)
masak can parse that :) 16:44
"I'm checking the sights", right?
moritz yes 16:45
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pmichaud lizmat: Hash[TKey,TVal].new # create hash with TKey keys and TVal values 16:46
for example: Hash[Int, Book] # create hash with Int keys and Book values 16:47
masak rn: class Book {}; say Hash[Int, Book].new
camelia niecza v24-55-g7942a09: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object␤ at Builtins.InvokeSub (Niecza.P6any obj, Niecza.Variable[] pos) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤ at Niecza.Kernel.ToComposable (Niecza.STable arg…
..rakudo 99c82d: OUTPUT«().hash␤»
colomon moritz: when I run the tests by hand I get all successes as well.
masak rakudo accepts that :)
pmichaud Array[Int]
if I say "my Book %hash{Int}" 16:48
moritz colomon: then it might be interesting why it thinks the tests fail
colomon moritz: but when I try to install it with panda, it fails.
pmichaud that desugars to Hash[Int, Book]
colomon moritz: gist.github.com/colomon/5694107 16:49
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FROGGS colomon: gist.github.com/FROGGS/624b75ab0d331015b35c 16:51
colomon FROGGS: github.com/colomon/SmokeResults is my github repo for this. :)
public/css has the style sheet
moritz colomon: might be a precompilation issue :( 16:52
indeed, fails when precompiled 16:53
seems like it might be not too bad to reduce to a minimal example, because it doesn't depend on any other modules 16:55
and Text::Emotion is another module that fails its tests when precompiled, and passes otherwise 16:56
no other prrequs necessary
masak :/
oh, and that's a single 50-line module. 16:57
should be eminently golfable.
github.com/MattOates/Text--Emotion.../Scorer.pm
wut, it has a '1;' in the end!?
:D
masak makes a pull request removing it 16:58
other things that look wrong in that module: 'package Text::Emotion' and then, inside that, 'class Text::Emotion::Scorer'... 16:59
lizmat r: class Baz { method new (*@p, *%n) { say @p; say %n } }; say Baz[Int,Str].new 17:00
camelia rakudo 99c82d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Type Baz cannot accept type arguments␤»
pmichaud r: class Baz[::TKey, ::TVal] { }; say Baz[Int,Str].new 17:01
camelia rakudo 99c82d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse class definition␤at /tmp/n4iXbNemZD:1␤------> class Baz⏏[::TKey, ::TVal] { }; say Baz[Int,Str].␤ expecting any of:␤ statement list␤ prefix or term␤ prefix or meta-prefix␤ …
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colomon FROGGS: I think I'm going to swap the two reds 17:02
pmichaud r: say Hash[Int,Int].new 17:04
camelia rakudo 99c82d: OUTPUT«().hash␤»
masak r: my %h = Hash[Int, Int]; %h{"OH"} = "HAI"; say %h.perl 17:06
camelia rakudo 99c82d: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤ in method pairs at src/gen/CORE.setting:7097␤ in method list at src/gen/CORE.setting:6828␤ in method STORE at src/gen/CORE.setting:6959␤ in block at /tmp/QDEAjEYe9b:1␤␤»
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masak r: my %h = Hash[Int, Int].new; %h{"OH"} = "HAI"; say %h.perl 17:06
camelia rakudo 99c82d: OUTPUT«("OH" => "HAI").hash␤»
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pmichaud Hash[TVal, TKey} 17:09
Hash[TVal, TKey]
colomon 71.10.146.50:3001/report # new look thanks to FROGGS++ 17:11
masak ...sorry everyone who is not attending the hackathon; IRC lines are bound to be incomprehensible... 17:12
colomon FROGGS: I'm thinking maybe centering instead of left: 25% for the table? 17:13
TimToady are you trying to say that the rest of them are comprehensible?
FROGGS colomon: if you know how to center a table cross platf^Wbrowser
masak TimToady: point taken.
colomon FROGGS: there's no modern equivalent of align="center" ? 17:14
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masak colomon: for text or images? 17:18
colomon masak: tables
I've got something that works for Chrome, anyway.
reload the report. :)
masak colomon: www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/center
colomon: url?
labster masak: 71.10.146.50:3001/report 17:19
masak colomon: did you try my color suggestions? 17:21
17:21 broone joined
colomon masak: I let FROGGS redesign the colors. 17:21
sorear greetings
masak oh, ok.
colomon masak: so, no. sorry.
(I mean, I didn't even try them.)
masak fwiw, I think my suggestion is better. :)
colomon masak++
masak it's in the backlog if you're curious.
also, what do the letters "P", "T", and "B" mean? 17:23
pmichaud r: my @array = 3,4,5; say @array.perl; say [3,4,5].perl
camelia rakudo 9557da: OUTPUT«Array.new(3, 4, 5)␤[3, 4, 5]␤»
colomon Prereq, Tests, Build
the stage it failed at 17:24
I'm going to add a key in a minute or two.
17:25 rindolf left
colomon except some of the Ps are Passed 17:25
masak :/
colomon Is there an easy way to get a check mark or something?
masak ✓ 17:26
17:26 broone left
masak en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick_(check_mark) 17:26
jnthn masak: Yes, but is there a tick in a box? 17:27
pmichaud .u 2611
yoleaux U+2611 BALLOT BOX WITH CHECK [So] (☑)
colomon I'm thinking outside the box. ;)
rjbs and don't forget...
.u 2327
yoleaux U+2327 X IN A RECTANGLE BOX [So] (⌧)
pmichaud .u 237b
yoleaux U+237B NOT CHECK MARK [So] (⍻)
dalek kudo/nom: 9cf3a88 | labster++ | src/core/IO.pm:
keep lines() with limit from reading an extra line
rjbs I really hate 237B. 17:28
It often seems to be rendered almost indistinguishably from a check mark.
pmichaud: See you in Austin?
pmichaud rjbs: I'm here now! and having fun
17:29 rindolf joined
rjbs I need to put U+20E0 onto my keyboard map. 17:29
pmichaud: Cool!
17:30 tomyan joined
pmichaud rjbs: we're all now amused by looking up U+237B 17:30
and mostly saying "that's just wrong" 17:31
masak s/amused/horrified/ :)
sorear rjbs: looking forward to seeing you 17:32
masak +1 17:33
rjbs I am looking forward to being seen, especially if I am eating something delicious when it happens.
rjbs hopes to make it to hear about MOARVM.
I forget what its competitionw as...
dalek ast: 2004f14 | labster++ | S16-filehandles/io.t:
unfudge rakudo: lines() with limit
 17:34
rjbs Oh, man, p6 on JVM is opposite Tim's Size Me!
Looks like I'll almost certainly get to moar, though. 17:35
dalek kudo/nom: 21a9579 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Any.pm:
Support for subscript adverb :delete in combination with :kv :p :k :v

As described in S02:2514		 17:41
kudo/nom: d0ac9a7 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (16 files):
Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/nom' into deleteadverbkvpkv

Conflicts: src/core/Any.pm
kudo/nom: d292900 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Any.pm:
We don't need no Mu

After discussing this with jnthn at PLPW
kudo/nom: 12b13e5 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any.pm:
Merge pull request #158 from lizmat/deleteadverbkvpkv

Support for subscript adverb :delete in combination with :kv :p :k :v
moritz .u U+237B 17:43
yoleaux U+237B NOT CHECK MARK [So] (⍻)
colomon New version, with checks and key: 71.10.146.50:3001/report 17:44
tadzik yoleaux: seen daxim?
seen daxim
pff
moritz .seen daxim
yoleaux I saw daxim 29 May 2013 13:22Z in #perl6: <daxim> r: say ('foo.bar.baz' ~~ /(\w+)+/).list.perl
tadzik ah, thanks moritz
masak .seen masak
yoleaux You're right there.
masak hrm. :) 17:45
yoleaux: does that mean you're at the hackathon, too? :P 17:46
atroxaper night! gl hf gg (as starcrafters says) 17:47
dalek kudo/nom: 2fe2537 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/List.pm:
Make List.gist not warn on undefined values
 17:49
kudo/nom: 1dace73 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/List.pm:
.gist is better for defined values than .Str
kudo/nom: 7869a67 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/List.pm:
Always just use .gist to create the final .gist

As suggested by Moritz++
kudo/nom: b2072f5 | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
Merge pull request #152 from lizmat/ListgistAnyok

Make List.gist not warn on undefined values
17:50 spider-mario joined
colomon Okay, that's enough fiddling with the smoke results. Next project to hack on... 17:53
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masak lunch & 18:02
jnthn lunch &
TimToady lunch & 18:04
lizmat lunch &
colomon lunch ! 18:05
felher lunch :
sorear felher: you here? 18:06
luch & 18:07
18:07 colomon left
dalek nda/prefix: cdf0c1a | tadzik++ | b (2 files):
Add --prefix to bootstrap.

Now panda and its dependencies are self-contained separately, so you actually can update some panda dependencies without breaking panda itself.
Awesome!		 18:07
felher sorear: nope, but I though i'll join you in spirit and get something to eat, too. Even though it's (a bit past) dinner time here in germany :)
18:08 colomon joined 18:09 FROGGS left
moritz it's not past dinner time until about 6am :-) 18:11
18:13 ggoebel left, smace joined
felher moritz: ah, fair enough :) 18:17
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nwc10 it's all gone very quiet. Is everyone sniffing whiteboard pens? :-) 19:14
19:21 Gruber is now known as Grrrr
woolfy1 the group of Perl 6 developers that are at YAPC::NA went out to lunch and heated debate just an hour ago. They can return within the hour, or it may take longer... 19:25
Big group, by the way, many of them quite vocal on this channel...
19:27 trexy left 19:29 domidumont left
lue
.oO(heated debate?)
 19:29
19:33 mucker joined
mucker themucker.github.io/plu/ perl on the browser ! 19:36
19:36 thou left
moritz wtf does that do? it froze my browser :-) 19:39
colomon FROGGS: acmeism.org/
TimToady we're back now, so the noise should go back up :)
moritz \o/
jnthn back too :) 19:40
moritz mucker: does that try to compile perl to JS?
mucker moritz: yes. emscripten kinda like
dg.cx/jsperl/ but I the build files are on github 19:41
moritz that explains why it's so slow :-)
mucker the interesting thing, (I haven't added it yet) you can use open and other file ops 19:43
19:45 Ultali joined
moritz and where can it open those files? 19:45
from local paths?
moritz kills his browser after several minutes of hanging 19:46
mucker currently you can add files in tmp
but later I add tutorial.txt or something similiar
masak is back, but hacking slides
sorear hiii
wb masak ;) 19:47
mucker moritz: does the execute button hang ?
timotimo we should emscripten parrot to js, it will be vastly faster than on C, because js has jits!
dalek nda: 096063e | tadzik++ | bin/panda:
Uncomment some code which I commented out for unknown reasons
 19:48
masak sorear: everything's interconnected. category theory is warping my brain ;)
mucker masak: sounds like LSD :P 19:49
timotimo rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=118263 - so apparently if i derive a class form a role, the role will be "mixed into" an empty class and that's why the error message is so opaque 19:50
colomon Is there somewhere out there with hints on building rakudo/jvm-support? 19:51
tadzik yeah 19:52
you need nqp on branch rak-jvm-support
and build both with ConfigureJVM.pl 19:53
nwc10 and java (1.)7 19:54
and if the JVM SEGVs, you need a newer JVM with that bug fixed
pwnage!
colomon there's no lazy man's --gen-nqp option for ConfigureJVM, eh?
19:55 s1n joined
tadzik no eye deer 19:55
colomon doesn't seem to be.
19:56 census joined, dagurval joined
dagurval r: "/tmp/a.pm6".spurt("sub abc() is export { }"); require("/tmp/a.pm6") <abc>; abc(); 19:57
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Error while compiling block (source text: "\"/tmp/a.pm6\".spurt(\"sub abc() is export { }\"); require(\"/tmp/a.pm6\") <abc>; abc();"): Error while compiling op call: Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op call: Null PMC access in find_…
19:57 atroxaper left
dagurval Null PMC is always a bug right? :) 19:58
19:58 census left
jnthn yes 19:58
dagurval is this a known one?
sorear evil code :)
jnthn Probably accidental code. 19:59
It probably wanted '...' around the sub
Not "..." which interpolates the closure
But that shouldn't caues an error like this
sorear r: "foo { }"
camelia rakudo b2072f: ( no output )
sorear r: sub abc() is export 20:00
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block␤at /tmp/Fh7RFUXTXA:1␤------> sub abc() is export⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ statement list␤ prefix or term␤ prefix or meta-prefix␤ new name to be defined␤»…
sorear r: eval "sub abc() is export { }"
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block␤at eval_0:1␤------> sub abc() is export ⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ statement list␤ prefix or term␤ prefix or meta-prefix␤ new name to be defined␤»
20:03 raiph left
dalek nda: 914450e | tadzik++ | bin/panda.bat:
Re-add panda.bat which I accidentally removed when working on panda2
 20:04
nda: e0474ee | tadzik++ | lib/Panda/Installer.pm:
Fix GH-36
20:06 cooper left
masak there's a lot of bubbling enthusiasm in this room. I realize I'd been missing the hackathon feeling a bit :) 20:06
moritz missses it 20:07
sorear :) 20:08
colomon :)
avuserow anything bite-sized going on that I could help a bit with? 20:09
avuserow is around but not hacking actively yet
sorear t/nqp/24-module.t ............... All 3 subtests passed 20:11
jnthn: rak-jvm-support is not totally clean tests, expected?
jnthn sorear: yes, there' sthat one, and then a handful of regex test failures
The regex ones are probably not so hard to hunt
sorear how about I make a pass at that? 20:12
jnthn Go for it. iirc, some of them are related to newline stuff
sorear nod 20:13
will have many qs later
jnthn :)
The relevant code-gen is in src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp
colomon is still hung up getting Java 1.7 installed on OS X 10.6.8
colomon is also lightly hacking on Niecza in another window 20:14
nwc10 colomon: I believe that it involves hacks. I haven't attempted it
sorear jnthn: gist.github.com/sorear/5694782, full list of fails FWIW
colomon nwc10: yes, I'm working on the hacks now. :) 20:15
stackoverflow.com/questions/1353666...ow-leopard
sorear nwc10: you here and/or coming?
nwc10 sorear: no, I'm not 20:16
20:18 xilo joined
colomon nwc10: :( 20:19
tadzik r: gist.github.com/tadzik/5694821 # bug? 20:20
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/NQkDK_ZQ2S:1␤------> https⏏://gist.github.com/tadzik/5694821 # bug?␤ expecting any of:␤ argument list␤ postfix␤ infix stopper␤ infix or meta-infix␤ st…
tadzik eeh?
r: gist.github.com/tadzik/5694821
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«rmdir is disallowed in restricted setting␤current instr.: 'throw' pc 347557 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:151689) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8887)␤called from Sub 'die' pc 36608 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:14320) (src/gen/CORE.setting:578)␤called from Sub 'die' pc 36506 (src/…
tadzik hrmng
...can someone try it locally and tell me if it's a bug, or I just don't understand END?
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avuserow r: sub foo { say "called foo"; END {say "in END";} } 20:23
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«in END␤»
sorear jnthn: FWIW, the JVM use of PREFIX does not quite folllow the filesystem hierarchy standard. can fix that and/or talk about it later 20:24
20:24 rindolf left
sorear colomon: any luck? 20:25
colomon not yet
In theory I've got it on my machine now, but it's not finding it yet
sorear hash -r / ldconfig stuff?
colomon maybe? hmmm 20:26
sorear > $*VM 20:27
java.lang.NullPointerException
I HAS A BUILT RAKUDO-JVM 20:28
arnsholt =D
colomon \o/
avuserow
.oO( there should be a $*DEFAULT_CRASH_TYPE to tell you if it's a NullPMC, NullPointerException, segfault, etc)
 20:29
dalek ecza: 67d20f1 | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
Try to get CUSTOM_LIB working.

Very simple version, but hopefully enough to make panda happy.		 20:30
20:30 kaare_ left
sorear 2+2 works, anyway 20:30
jnthn :)
20:31 mucker left
colomon sorear: jnthn might have hardcoded that. Try 2+3 just to be sure. ;) 20:31
nwc10 no, try 6*9 :-) 20:32
pmichaud 42. 20:34
lue r: say 6*9 20:35
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«54␤»
lue
.oO(darn, rakudo's broken)
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colomon is giving up on Rakudo-JVM for the moment, in the interesting on not going insane trying to figure out how to get Java 1.7 working. :\ 20:43
moritz++ # was just going to start working on fixing JSONPath, then realized you had already done it. :) 20:44
20:45 woolfy joined
masak BUT... 20:45
r: say (6 * 9).base(13)
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«42␤»
masak \o/
I'm not sure DNA was aware of that, at least at the time of writing the books... :) 20:46
colomon masak: I always just figured he ran out of letters before he could get to the rest of the formula. :)
masak heh. 20:47
colomon tadzik: any notion how hard it would be to make the Rakudo version of Panda install modules for Niecza? 20:48
tadzik: I realize you're involved in a big discussion at the whiteboard rather than checking IRC at the moment, I just wanted to float the idea before I forgot it. 20:49
lue masak: "I may be a sorry case, but I don't write jokes in base 13." -- Douglas Adams
masak lue: ah, yes. of course you'd know this, too :P 20:51
lue (hey, I had to look up the exact wording of the quote!) 20:52
masak yeah, yeah :P
masak .oO( with a nick like yours... )
:P
lue r: say 42.chr; # only fitting the answer to LUE would mean this Perl 6 20:54
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«*␤»
eiro hello everyone 20:56
sorear hello eiro 20:57
you in austin?
eiro i wish i would be in austin. i can't afford it
20:57 tomyan joined
masak eiro! \o/ 20:57
eiro just discovered MoarVM and submit patches to make it compile on linux 20:58
masak eiro++
eiro hey masak :) you're at austin ?
masak eiro: then you should probably check out #moarvm, too :)
eiro: I'm in Austin, hacking on my talks :D
colomon eiro: something to do with APR? 20:59
eiro colomon: yep. apr is just forgotten under linux (the string was empty)
github.com/eiro/MoarVM/commit/74e2...7e97ba9749 21:00
colomon eiro: I built APR by hand to get it working on Linux. If you've fixed that, that's a big eiro++
eiro thanks! now i can read a VM code :) 21:01
lue So, is MoarVM supposed to be another VM for NQP, like JVM and Parrot? (That's what it seems to be, but for a second I thought differently) 21:03
masak lue: yes.
lue: see strangelyconsistent.org/blog/a-vm-for-6model 21:04
eiro colomon: btw the patch is gross, just repeating a line in both if and else block. i don't know why it was empty (maybe there was a good reason?) but it fixed the problem to fill it
colomon eiro: atm I'm just focusing on verifying it works.
masak even a crude fix is better than a non-working state :) 21:05
sorear I guess I'm going to have to learn to read this JAST stuff 21:06
jnthn: working on t/nqp/24-module.t atm.
dalek osystem: 424e795 | dagurval++ | META.list:
Added Image::Resize
 21:07
masak sorear++! 21:08
jnthn sorear: That one is some closure related thingy, iirc... 21:09
sorear++ # hacking on nqp-jvm
colomon masak, jnthn: I can confirm that eiro++'s patch makes MoarVM build on my Linux box (without the workaround hack I used yesterday) 21:15
tadzik can someone give me a hand with gist.github.com/tadzik/5694821 ?
colomon tadzik: what's the problem?
tadzik colomon: try running it :) 21:16
sorear "fortunately, rakudo can work for quite a while with completely broken closures"
tadzik tl;dr: END is set up even if foo() is never ran
colomon big error there.
ooh!
tadzik if that's correct, then it's at least confusing
sorear tadzik: That's how it's supposed to work. 21:17
jnthn tadzik: Yes, it hould be
tadzik: Did you want LEAVE?
sorear END blocks are called once, period.
at process exit
colomon He wanted END but only if foo was called
sorear it does not work like atexit(3)
tadzik I do want it at process exit
sorear then you need to manage a list of directories-to-remove 21:18
tadzik if I have foo() creating a random tmpdir, but I want them all destroyed atexit
okay
jnthn OK. Have an our variable you set in the sub.
colomon how about END { rmdir $foo if $foo }
?
tadzik yeah, I could do that, but it's still broken if I have multiple foos
sorear (or use eval 'END { rmdir $s }', but ick)
tadzik I guess I have to go the way sorear++ says
colomon wouldn't an array of foos work? 21:19
tadzik bah 21:20
21:20 btyler joined
sorear colomon: 16:18 < sorear> then you need to manage a list of directories-to-remove 21:20
btyler! o/
colomon sorear++
btyler hiya 21:21
colomon 's version: gist.github.com/colomon/5695031 21:23
21:24 mst joined
sorear jnthn: got tips for reading jast? 21:25
jnthn Don't? ;)
masak ingy: github.com/perl6/nqp/tree/master/src/QRegex
and github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/s.../Regex.nqp I guess. 21:26
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sorear 2081 lines of javap output \o/ 21:31
masak pictures the name "javap" as being the result of someone saying "java" and then quickly having his mouth covered by someone else 21:32
21:32 woolfy left
sorear qb_13, qb_14, ... 21:33
pmichaud it does somewhat feel as though we'd like to be able to dynamically add closures to be run at END time 21:34
masak r: my &closure = { say "OH HAI" }; END { &closure() }
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak pmichaud: worksforme ;) 21:35
colomon pmichaud: it is quite easily done by the end user already.
masak r: my $un-greeting; my &closure = { say $un-greeting }; $un-greeting = "bai bai!"; END { &closure() } 21:36
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«bai bai!␤»
colomon isn't trying to argue against the idea, mind you.
tadzik I would expect that to work :)
sorear I've always thought that atexit() would make a nice addition
perhaps under that name
masak pmichaud: I'm also not arguing against the idea. I would really like a nice API for dynamically building regexes, even though most of that can be done with /<$rx>/
which is an analogous situation. 21:37
tadzik I think it should be a phaser, phasers are those things that mangle the regular control flow
pmichaud gist.github.com/pmichaud/5695072
tadzik as atexit would
pmichaud is the best I can come up with
lue
.oO(ATEXIT { })
tadzik heh, yeah :)
dalek nda: d3042b8 | tadzik++ | lib/Panda.pm:
Fix GH-6
 21:38
colomon ATEXIT: gist.github.com/colomon/5695083 21:41
tadzik haha, awesome 21:43
now we only need a module
pmichaud and perhaps there's an argument to be made that the closures should be run LIFO :) 21:44
colomon pmichaud: good point
masak yes.
FROGGS eiro: the empty string was intention
colomon should I do a module? or should we just add it straight into the language? 21:45
masak pmichaud++ colomon++ tadzik++ # you just created a new phaser in, like, 10 minutes!
colomon: modules, IMO.
module*
tadzik haha! Beat that, spock!
pmichaud I'm thinking it's a potential language construct, but we don't have enough use cases to know it exactly yet
so, module
colomon works for me.
pmichaud if it turns out to be incredibly common, then it can be added to language
colomon I've got it.
tadzik colomon++ 21:46
colomon module name?
Perl6::ATEXIT
?
tadzik Phaser::ATEXIT? 21:47
espadrine what's the difference with END if they're both LIFO?
sorear espadrine: END foo =~ BEGIN ATEXIT foo
ATEXIT foo =~ eval 'END foo' 21:48
masak espadrine: this one is per-sub call. END never is.
espadrine ok 21:49
21:50 rindolf joined
lue is quoteharder a real thing? (Looking at S02:3831, "macro quote:<❰ ❱> ($text) { quasi { {{{$text}}}.quoteharder } }") 21:51
sorear found enterFromMain 21:52
eiro FROGGS: why was it ? 21:53
masak lue: not in the sense that it's something more than just an example in S02. 21:55
21:56 aindilis joined
lue so it might as well be .foobar . OK then, it seemed like maybe it was an actual core language feature :) 21:56
ingy masak: ta 21:57
dalek osystem: d4da6a1 | colomon++ | META.list:
Add Phaser::ATEXIT
colomon 12 minutes -- not bad. 21:58
Guess I should make the README better.
done. 22:01
sorear wonders what hllName is about 22:02
arnsholt IIRC, it's the name of the HLL that owns a type 22:03
jnthn sorear: Are we in nqp, perl6, etc.
Used for type mapping, knowing when we cross a NQP/Rakudo boundary, etc.
arnsholt Since NQP objects leaking into Perl 6 is generally wrong
sorear Is a "static code ref" the same thing as a protosub in niecza? 22:04
avuserow does hyper or race work in any implementations? 22:06
sorear not afaik 22:07
jnthn sorear: I'm not sure I know what a protosub is in niecza. 22:08
sorear: Sounds like, though.
sorear: It's the original code ref before any closure cloning of it, etc. 22:09
FROGGS eiro: the thing in the string is a static lib, my patch from yesterday or so was meant to use the dynamic library instead, which get loaded by -lapr-1
eiro: ... which fixed a build issue on my box 22:10
eiro: so after your patch it will include the static library and load the dynamic one
eiro: I'm curious that it works that way... what linux do you have? what architecture? 22:11
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dalek ast: db118a6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S (2 files):
Unfudge tests that I made passing today
 22:14
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pmichaud lizmat++ # "tests that I made passing today" 22:19
I always like hearing that. 22:20
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sorear jnthn: How does gather/take work? 22:28
22:29 tomyan joined
jnthn sorear: On Parrot uses coroutines. On the JVM uses the thing I didn't finish yet... 22:31
22:31 silug joined
jnthn sorear: It's the transform where at the point of a call you ensure the stack is empty. 22:32
And then uses exceptions as a stack iterator.
And save the stack
the "stack empty on call" invariant is already upheld. 22:33
sorear Neat
How is invokedynamic being used here? 22:34
I have no idea what's going on with this closure bug or how to instrument debugging for it
dalek : bb684f4 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/ (3 files):
added support for: do EXPR
 22:35
: 4edddfd | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
added "use vars" support, +128 passing tests
colomon FROGGS++ 22:36
sorear jnthn: how can I tell what part of the AST qb_13 corresponds to? Is there anything else that's good to look at besides ast and classfile/javap? 22:38
jnthn sorear: Hmm...does javap not show annotations... 22:39
'cus the actual name is in that.
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sorear RuntimeVisibleAnnotations: 22:44
0: #8(#9=s#109,#11=s#14,#13=s#110,#15=[s#111,s#112,s#113],#16=[],#17=[],#18=[],#19=[J#20])
that?
FROGGS maybe you have to read that backwards
jnthn um. Yes, that. How...beautifully dumped :/ 22:45
colomon 71.10.146.50:3001/report # now with stats for for the first date, too. +10 passing modules in the last two weeks (and I think maybe three more today, but not in the stats yet)
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sorear Is it just me or is the sub name passed to every invokedynamic? 22:46
jnthn sorear: Yes; Perl 6 sub names don't comply with JVM method names 22:47
sorear jnthn: Is that just an ignored parameter for debugging?
colomon: Nifto
jnthn sorear: Yeah
sorear: passing it as an arg isn't so bad, though; the JIT should be able to see that the bound callsite always drops it. 22:48
sorear niecza embeds a mangled version of the source name in the true method name
jnthn I pondered that, but was too lazy to mangle. :)
Don't mind if that happens. 22:49
sorear wonders about wval_noa vs subcall_noa 22:50
jnthn sorear: wval_noa is for world values (lookups in an SC) 22:52
subcall_noa is a subroutine call, looking up the name lexically
So we do the resolution/lookup once.
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timotimo i feel like someone has to build ACME::QuoteHarder 23:07
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sorear jnthn: some qs for later: 1. is there a nice way to dump SixModelObjects? 2. what IDE if any do you use? 23:12
lue I don't suppose there's a way to do what I mean by "use Module::DebugStuff is export(:debug)" in a "main" module, is there? 23:16
(I could probably have the user set a global variable first and then "if ($*debug) { use Module::DebugStuff; }" in the main module, but I wonder if there's another way) 23:17
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colomon has retreated back to his hotel room 23:18
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lue Seems like EXPORT might be my solution, but I can't get it to do anything :/ 23:28
timotimo you mean sub EXPORT? 23:29
lue yes. Apparently I can't put in under C<module TheModule;>, and you must export it, in other words "sub EXPORT(*@a) is export {" 23:33
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timotimo try our sub EXPORT 23:35
but yeah, that's what's currently implemented. it has a few holes
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tadzik sorear: I'm quite sure jnthn uses Visual Studio 23:36
lue Also, use Module :named <positional> breaks (<positional> :named as well), and the use statement in the EXPORT sub doesn't work outside the sub (to be expected, but grr) :/ 23:40
timotimo: I like sub EXPORT is export better. It feels more -Ofun :) 23:41
timotimo hehe 23:42
-Olol
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lue r: macro foo(:$flag) { quasi { say 42 } if $flag }; foo(:flag); 23:49
camelia rakudo b2072f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤at /tmp/8bO2z1Miku:1␤------> ␤»
lue thought he had an answer for a second, but nope 23:50
Am I not allowed to use named parameters in macros, or is that a bug? 23:56

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