»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 25 December 2014.
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japhb _sri: Re: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-01-06#i_9895878 , what is responsible for the 30% speed increase? (I've been away from Perl 5 blead for a few releases; I was unaware such large improvements were still coming down the pipe.) 00:27
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_sri japhb: cheaper method calls and multi level dereferencing (mostly through new special ops) 00:35
japhb _sri: Meaning, they made '$foo->bar(1,2,3)' and '$foo{bar}{baz}[1][2][3]' faster? 00:36
_sri ye
japhb Interesting.
_sri (there's more to it, but that's the tldr) 00:37
japhb Very nice indeed. 00:39
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andreoss m: sub foo(int \x) {x}; my int $x = 1; say foo $x; 01:07
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«1␤»
andreoss m: sub foo(int \x) is cached {x}; my int $x = 1; say foo $x;
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'gist': no method cache and no .^find_method␤ in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7738␤ in block at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3694␤ in any enter at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:3185␤ in method invoke at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3…»
andreoss native ints conflict with memoization 01:08
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andreoss m: my int \x = 1; say x; 01:26
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected 'int' but got 'Int'␤ in any bind_error at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:224␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/FmDtOoccID:1␤␤»
andreoss m: my int \x = (my int $x = 1); say $x;
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected 'int' but got 'Int'␤ in any bind_error at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:224␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/yNR4H5UDBt:1␤␤»
TimToady we don't have native pointers, at least, not yet 01:28
skids m: my int $r = 1; "OHAI".say; my int \x = $r;
TimToady and that's a binding, really, not an assignment
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«OHAI␤Type check failed in binding; expected 'int' but got 'Int'␤ in any bind_error at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:224␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Ok9YqIcRBg:1␤␤»
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TimToady the \x notation is really aliasing 01:29
and we can't do native aliases yet 01:31
it might be possible after jnthn's pe work
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andreoss memoization for natives doesn't work for the same reason? 01:33
due to lack of pointer arithmetic for natives 01:34
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TimToady the current caching probably depends on object introspection, and with natives you have to introspect the descriptors of the location, not the object itself 01:38
since a set of 64 bits can't really tell you anything about itself if it happens to be all dedicated to holding an int 01:39
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skids Hrm. Some PASS results on cpandatesters are actually FAIL if you open them up. testers.perl6.org/report/dist/Sum/8688 02:21
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ugexe skids: its also saying all those tests are on the same line 03:25
s/all/many/
skids Yeah that's more Test::'s problem I think. 03:28
ugexe did you have this problem more than a week ago? 03:34
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ugexe looks like no 03:38
cognominal @_ericelloit is setting a gist gist.github.com/ericelliott/d576f7...fc1b27dace about js resources. This is one of them that I find of general interest because defining a lot of programming vocabulary ; github.com/kriskowal/gtor 03:41
ugexe yea i think its when Panda switched to the pipe command recently 03:49
skids ugexe: I just today even discovered cpandatesters. 03:50
(nonsequiter) gist.github.com/skids/47f2ed6b2f64630fc571 03:51
time to upgrade 1000 wifi aps. wish me luck. 03:54
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ugexe looks like it may be fixed now 04:04
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ugexe i saw this because here Slang::SQL also clearly fails it Test stage but is marked as passed: testers.perl6.org/report/dist/Slang::SQL/8215 04:07
1 day later it was tested again with the same output but is marked as fail: testers.perl6.org/report/dist/Slang::SQL/8814 04:08
skids OK, so it was previously fixed, just Sum had no tests run since the fix, you mean? 04:09
ugexe well i dont know if it was actually fixed, it just seems like it may be 04:10
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skids Ah. 04:11
ugexe my $x = pipe("prove -e 'perl6 -Ilib' t/ 2>&1"); say $x.handle.close == 0;
can you run that on your bsd machine?
i think that will give you the exit code
skids I don't have one, that's someone else's test. 04:12
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ugexe ah 04:12
nope, you have a failure on the same day using the same compiler and backend 04:13
a failure that says pass^
skids busy hunting for 6 AWOL wifi APs. 04:16
ugexe i submitted a issue to panda's repo (even though it could be a rakudo or nqp pipe bug) github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/130 04:19
skids ugexe++
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ugexe i just fired off a legit passing test for Sum (on debian) fwiw testers.perl6.org/report/dist/Sum/8978 04:32
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skids Thanks. 04:38
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skids Architecture "64" hmm. 04:42
adu skids: what are you talking about? 04:43
skids On your test the "Architecture" column just says "64". Probably can't parse the OS string or something. 04:46
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skids Yep same with my debian test. 04:52
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adu my test? 04:58
your test? 04:59
ugexe skids: its under the debian column
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ugexe or you mean parse the arch out of os string 05:02
s/or/oh/
odd, for hardware it has x86_64 05:03
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TimToady m: say << a b c 'x' >>[0] 05:33
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
TimToady is testing a fix for this...
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TimToady unfortunately, it appears that there's a different part of the parser that depends on the bug, but it's minor, so I'm gonna check it in anyway, I think 06:01
dalek ast: d8d3a15 | TimToady++ | S02-literals/quoting.t:
ensure << a b c 'x' >> doesn't parcelize <a b c>
 06:02
kudo/nom: 4c6cfab | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
make << a b c 'x' >>[0] return 'a' not 'a b c'
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dalek ast: 2edaa16 | TimToady++ | S06-operator-overloading/sub.t:
fudge circumfix:<<` `>> misparse for now
 06:10
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TimToady jnthn: ^^ I don't understand how the old code produced "` `" for that, which is apparently simple enough to pass the 'too complex to use in name' check 06:16
fixing the bug I just fixed, the <<` `>> construct now properly returns ("`", "`"), but this gives the circumfix parser heartburn, so I've fudged the test for the moment 06:17
I also don't understand why ("`","`") isn't considered to have a compile-time value... 06:18
the test in question seems to be examining the parts of the infix:<,>, but failing anyway 06:19
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sergot_ hi o/ 07:22
raydiak \o sergot
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sergot_ tony-o: it should handle server connections 07:24
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sergot_ tony-o: and yeah, it has poor tests :( 07:24
hi raydiak ! :)
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Woodi hallo #perl6 :) 07:26
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sergot_ hi Woodi :) 07:27
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Woodi it is a bit strange question: which one to learn v5 or v6 ? and even more uncomfortable to answer it. but I wonder if good answer thes days is: learn both and you will use one which match your use case (app for sale/learning to program/hobby scripting) 07:31
I think in last years multi-languagines is common in IT. even in Java/MS shops :) 07:32
and all the Hello Worlds looks nearly identical in all languages :) 07:33
perfect lesson for newbie programmer 07:34
there is no moarvm in Debian repos, which is good news. we can make one so we can keep it up to date. Debian have Rakudo from 2014.07 (what is not so bad) but it is 2 R* behind current 07:39
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El_Che Hi Woodi: I think perl5 would be easier to learn because there are great books out there. v6 will get there soon, I hope 07:46
Woodi El_Che: the problem is that "learn" depends on student case... learn can be "just make a script I need" or "complete knowledge to put into CV"... 07:48
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El_Che Woodi: true. But often those 2 scenarios are related 07:52
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raydiak yes p5 would likely be easier to get started with. but it doesn't really answer the question of "which to learn"...that choice can only sensibly be made in the context of your goals and motivations, like any choice 07:58
iow my answer is it's impossible to give a good answer without more information specific to each individual...even learning both would often be the least sensible thing to do, depending on what your gaol is 07:59
*goal
heck sometimes the most sensible thing to do is pull out a notebook and pencil :) 08:01
moritz \o
raydiak o/ 08:02
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Woodi but is using many languages more common now ? this is my impresion in last years... 08:05
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JimmyZ learn both, and then choose which you want to learn more 08:07
raydiak JimmyZ++, well put...if you have to seriously ask yourself this, you'd be well-served to at least spend a few hours or days with each before deciding 08:09
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Woodi btw. not so long ago I hear my uncle (who is building and fixing thing real things) stated thet he probably will be learning to his death : 08:14
becouse water and masonery and other "technologies" is evolving :)
*are 08:15
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Woodi hmm, found MoarVM on the list of not ready packages... www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/being_packaged 08:31
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masak good morning, #perl6 08:58
moritz good masak, morning
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masak ice-breaker of the day: the README.md of github.com/masak/007 is clearly inadequate as it stands. what should a decent project have in its README.md, and in what order? 08:58
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masak wishes he could remember where he read about the need for a section "## But is it awesome?nYes." in all project READMEs 08:59
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moritz masak: it needs a story, like ufo's README :-) 09:06
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masak moritz: hokay. remember, you asked for it. :P 09:21
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dalek ecs/newio: f2ed255 | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
gorilla/banana problem
 09:24
ecs/newio: 210cb23 | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
fixing outward links in gorilla/banana
ecs/newio: 197d679 | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
FP
ecs/newio: 17976d9 | lizmat++ | S99-glossary.pod:
Merge branch 'master' into newio
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CurtisOvidPoe Morning all. Can anyone tell me why this doesn’t print the k/v pairs I’m expecting? gist.github.com/Ovid/fc552949223750349a8b 09:36
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moritz CurtisOvidPoe: because the match object isn't global 09:38
CurtisOvidPoe I don’t know what that means.
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moritz ok, the grep gets a block, { / $<key>=\w+ ',' $<value>=\w+ / } 09:39
arnsholt It means that $fh.lines.grep({ / $<key>=\w+ ',' $<value>=\w+ / }) is basically $fh.lines.grep({ my $/; / $<key>=\w+ ',' $<value>=\w+ / })
moritz and inside that grep, there's a $/, which is the match object
arnsholt So the $/ you're accessing in the loop isn't the one you're accessing in the grep closure
moritz but there's no mechanism to get one match per list item into the for-block
CurtisOvidPoe So I *can’t* use the $fh.lines.grep idiom and capture the data after? (Since {} forces a closure, that belatedly makes sense) 09:40
moritz no
there are two idiomatic ways to do it (IMHO) 09:41
one is to say $fh.lines.map(/ $<key>=\w+ ',' $<value>=\w+ /).grep(*.so).map( -> $/ { say $<key>, $<value> })
that is, first transform into match objects
and the other is a bit more procedural: 09:42
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moritz my @result = gather for $fh.lines { if /regex here/ { take $<key> => $<value> } } 09:42
dalek kudo/nom: fd77386 | lizmat++ | src/core/Inc.pm:
Apparently, *all* backends need a populated $*VM

to be able to create valid precomped modules. Please note that this does
  *not* fix #123276 on the JVM, but at least it now generates an error that
actually indicates the problem.
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=123276
CurtisOvidPoe The first won’t fly. I’m trying to cherry pick the “Perl 6 for Mere Mortals” idioms. 09:43
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CurtisOvidPoe For the second, that “take” returns pairs with the key being a string and the value being a match object. That 09:45
That seems counterintuitive.
To make it work, I need take $<key> => ~$<value> 09:46
Or is that a bug?
moritz no, not a bug
btyler_ lizmat: to follow up on Inline::P5 and threading stuff -- after a bit of consideration, it seems obvious that having multiple threads access p5 guts in parallel is going to be a Bad Time. firing up a new I::P5 object per thread works great as long as perl is compiled with -Dusemultiplicity
masak no, you have to stringify explicitly.
moritz CurtisOvidPoe: elements of match objects are match objects again (it's a tree), it's just that pair keys stringify by default (I think) 09:47
masak that gather/take example feels funny to me. I knew you were trying to fix the grep example, but if I saw such a gather/take with an if in it, I'd go "that one is better written as a grep"...
moritz the => stringifies the key
masak: except it's not a pure grep, because it also transforms the data 09:48
one could also write .map({ /regex/; $<key> => ~$<value> if $/ })
masak I think I'm not seeing the part where it transforms the data.
CurtisOvidPoe I’ve found plenty of examples for my “mere mortals” talk which are clean and easy, but if I add that lines.map.grep.map example, I’ll get laughed out of the room.
masak I just see a pair.
moritz masak: it turns a string (the line) into a pair 09:50
CurtisOvidPoe: then go with the gather/take, that's fairly intuitive, IMHO 09:51
masak "it turns an X into a Y" is what grep *does*.
moritz no
grep is "select only the Y"
masak oh wait. yes.
CurtisOvidPoe grep is likely better written as “filter” and map as “transform"
(No, I’m not suggesting we change those names :)
moritz masak++ usually knows that :-)
masak yeah, momentary lapse. 09:52
now would be a good time to claim that I need to learn more FP, though :P
CurtisOvidPoe: "map" and "transform" are synonyms in English, no? given how useful "map" is, I think three letters is much better Huffman than nine. 09:53
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masak the etymology of "grep" is exceesdingly silly, but it's also nice and short. and it kinda "rhymes" with "map". 09:53
CurtisOvidPoe “map” is ambiguous in the English language, but “transform” is not.
masak "map" as a verb is not that ambiguous, IMO. 09:54
"map these things to those things"
btyler_ let's map out the project
CurtisOvidPoe To “map something out” is to plan it.
Heh :)
lizmat also likes the audio proximity of grep and grok
CurtisOvidPoe I know people love Huffman encoding (I usually do), but I’ll cheerfully go with a longer keyword if it’s more clear. 09:55
moritz must agree with python that "filter" is a very good name for "grep"
masak it is.
CurtisOvidPoe grok I could live with due to the silliness :)
btyler_ also, CurtisOvidPoe, -great- idea for a talk -- looking forward to it :) 09:56
moritz and grog you could dring :-)
erm, drink :-)
CurtisOvidPoe btyler_: Thanks, but I have to admit that I’m finding it harder and harder to find examples “for mere mortals”. It’s making me feel uncomfortable with the premise. 09:57
btyler_ one of the things I struggled with when I started getting into p6 was that a lot of the examples floating around were written by core p6 hackers showing off some amazingly powerful feature in a handful of lines, which was often hard to digest as someone who only knew a bit
CurtisOvidPoe Agreed.
That’s been scaring people off for a long time. In Perl 5, I wouldn’t show symbol table hackery to a newbie to get around a renamed method.
btyler_ pssh, 'no strict "refs"' is a great first step :D 09:58
but yeah, absolutely agreed 09:59
CurtisOvidPoe Heh.
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CurtisOvidPoe The .perl method has no formatting options, right? 10:00
moritz correct
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CurtisOvidPoe Is it planned in the future, or is it staying the way it is? 10:02
JimmyZ stay, I would say 10:03
moritz I'm not sure
we need some work for making .perl work on cyclic object graphs
JimmyZ .perl return codes that can be evaled? 10:04
moritz maybe in that course it would make sense to add some formatting too
JimmyZ: yes
JimmyZ: but in practice, it's mostly used for debugging
not for serialization
JimmyZ and gist too?
CurtisOvidPoe Thanks. 10:05
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lizmat moritz: disagree, .perl *should* be for serialization of data structure, in my opinion 10:12
we cannot use precomp for that, as we cannot carry that between Perl 6 versions
moritz lizmat: in principle, I agree. In practice, that's not how it tends to be used.
I mean yes, it should still support that use case 10:13
but we should be aware that it's not the only use case
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lizmat moritz: fair 10:18
lumimies I'm wondering if it might return an AST at some point 10:19
jnthn CurtisOvidPoe: If you don't .lines first, and just .slurp the file and .match with the regex, you're looping over a bunch of matches. 10:25
m: my $a = "x=1\ny=2\n"; for $a.match(/$<key>=\w+ '=' $<value>=\w+/, :g) { say .<key> }
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«｢x｣␤␤｢y｣␤␤»
jnthn m: my $a = "x=1\ny=2\n"; for $a.match(/$<key>=\w+ '=' $<value>=\w+/, :g) { say .<key> ~ ' is ' ~ .<value> }
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«x is 1␤y is 2␤»
CurtisOvidPoe jnthan: I didn’t slurp because I was showing the common newbie mistake of confusing for/while on filehandles, but since they’re lazy in Perl 6, it’s not a disaster. 10:26
jnthn Ah
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jnthn m: my $a = "x=1\ny=2\n"; for $a.lines>>.match(/$<key>=\w+ '=' $<value>=\w+/, :g) { say .<key> ~ ' is ' ~ .<value> } # works, though is back in the category of "more than I want to have to explain" 10:27
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«x is 1␤y is 2␤»
brrt \o
CurtisOvidPoe You mean “back in the category of “more than Ovid could explain” 10:28
Wait, no, that’s actually not too bad.
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jnthn To be honest, though, I'd probably have just written the imperative solution here 10:29
m: my $a = "x=1\ny=2\n"; for $a.lines { next unless /$<key>=\w+ '=' $<value>=\w+/; say "$<key> is $<value>" } 10:30
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«x is 1␤y is 2␤»
btyler_ well, there's also something akin to what moritz said: for $fh.lines.map({ /$<key>=\w+ ',' $<value>=\w+ /; $/}) { say ~$<key>, ~$<value>; }
CurtisOvidPoe That’s what I want to convey to the audience: don’t worry about the tricks people show in *any* language: it’s still easy to get your job done.
jnthn 'cus most mre mortals I know find loops easier than greps :)
CurtisOvidPoe And quite often, the for loop is better if I’ve too much logic. 10:31
btyler_ seeing the match object referenced is probably not very newbie friendly though
jnthn Maybe also nice 10:32
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jnthn m: my $a = "x=1\ny=2\n"; for $a.lines { when /$<key>=\w+ '=' $<value>=\w+/ { say "$<key> is $<value>" } } 10:32
camelia rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«x is 1␤y is 2␤»
jnthn Extra block, but reads clearly.
Heck, so does if :)
CurtisOvidPoe btyler_: Agreed. I suspect that always having to remember to force string context is going to irritate people. 10:33
jnthn Depends what else is going on.
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lizmat CurtisOvidPoe: fwiw, that is something that [Tux] also ran into when working on Text::CSV for perl 6 10:34
CurtisOvidPoe lizmat: Didn’t know that. Thanks. Having the common cases accomodated is a good thing. Not seeing that here. 10:35
(though I hate saying it that way because it sounds harsh. My apologies) 10:36
dalek line-Perl5: 0df0f3d | ab5tract++ | README.md:
Clarify that you might need -Dusemultiplicity

If you want to play with interpreter pools or anything like that, you need to be able to create a re-entrant-safe version of libperl. This option is leveraged by the likes of nginx/uwsgi, so it seems to be one of the "safe options" you can enable in Perl 5.		 10:37
line-Perl5: 769ce38 | niner++ | README.md:
Merge pull request #9 from ab5tract/patch-1

Clarify that you might need -Dusemultiplicity
jnthn Well, in the example I showed, the interpolation puts the thing in string context, meaning it's not required to force it.
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jnthn But yes, sometimes I find myself needing to prefix ~ it also. 10:39
CurtisOvidPoe jnthn: that’s true, but for larger systems, we’re typically reading data and shoving it into variables/objects, and so on, and not printing it.
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jnthn CurtisOvidPoe: Yes, though even there you may be doing other things that enforce a string context. And even if match live longer than they need to by being stored, it's likely to manifest as a memory inefficiency rather than a correctness issue. 10:45
*matches 10:46
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jnthn lunch & 10:56
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masak question of the day: you're the designer in a team tasked with building a language that compiles down to JavaScript. due to some weird glitch in planning, the team is supposed to build *your* ideal language that targets JS. what design do you hand them? 11:21
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lizmat masak: Perl 6 with a JS backend ? 11:43
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masak that's certainly a valid answer, and one I guess I should have expected from #perl6 ;) 11:44
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nwc10 masak: if your bonus is based on how fast they complete the job - Ook! ? :-) 12:01
(was it specified as needing to be useful, rather than simply Turing complete)
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moritz nwc10: I guess javascript as input language would be even simpler :-) 12:05
"javascript to ecmascript compiler"
(usually delivered as /bin/cat)
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lizmat masak: wouldn't that be the ultimate dogfooding for you and the team ? 12:08
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FROGGS[mobile] will the Team get payed well? do they still search for people? 12:17
moritz FROGGS[mobile]++ # asking the right questions :-)
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FROGGS[mobile] :o) 12:19
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masak the team gets paid ridiculously well. the also get free food and infinite backrubs. 12:21
moritz where do I apply? :-)
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FROGGS[mobile] consider me signed! /o/ 12:24
masak I guess in this hypothetical scenario, the positions have already been filled.
but Iäll let you know if something opens up. 12:25
I'll*
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FROGGS[mobile] Hulk is sad 12:27
moritz SMASH! 12:28
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nwc10 moritz++ 13:01
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lizmat is there a reason why we can't optimize method dispatch:<!> away ? 13:38
.tell jntnn is there a reason why we can't optimize method dispatch:<!> away ?
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jntnn.
dalek ecs: 518438a | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
laziness and other entries
 13:39
lizmat .tell jnthn I was under the impression that it could basically become a sub call internally ?
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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moritz tadzik: could you please merge github.com/tadzik/synopsebot/pull/4 and then restart synopsebot? thanks 13:51
masak as a followup to my question about compile-to-JS before -- what's the status of pmurias++' work on the NQP/Rakudo JS backend? 13:53
I also noticed that twitter.com/rakudoperl besides not showing any R* release messages for a while, still describes itself as "The Perl 6 compiler for Parrot". 13:54
who owns that account? pmichaud?
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moritz I think so 13:54
[Coke] is there a ticket open for R* hanging on parrot?
R* build, that is.
moritz and iirc nqp-js was (mostly?) bootstrapped, and then pmurias++ decided to re-work some codegen stuff 13:55
[Coke]: no; I've wanted to track it down a bit further before ticketing it (and then my laptop's power supply broke)
[Coke] ok, but sounds like you're on it. moritz++ 13:56
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moritz well, I would be :-) 13:56
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tadzik moritz: should be okay, thanks 14:03
[Coke] has the compiler release this month, he thinks. 14:04
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masak sudden thought: instead of trying to fit a square peg in a sqround hole with the <foo 5 1/2> syntax and allomporhic types, perhaps it would make more sense to have <foo 5 1/2> be completely non-magical and just give a list of three Str, but then also provide a really short primitive to do the conversion? a listop, or an adverb, or something. make it opt-in. 14:06
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masak this is the kind of idea that I suspect sounds good in my head but that TimToady will reject with some reason I cannot predict :) 14:06
moritz masak: the reason for IntStr and the likes is to satisfy type constraints from MAIN subs 14:07
colomon a reason, rather 14:08
masak ...and there are good reasons to unify the type conversion on cmdline args, and the type conversion of <foo 5 1/2>. got it.
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colomon There was also an idea that (say) RatStr would allow you to default to a reasonable numeric approximation, while not throwing away additional Str information that could be used to construct a FatRat. 14:10
dalek kudo/nom: f6efe05 | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
stub in release dates for 2015
 14:13
[Coke] ^^ after january, no compiler releases are claimed. 14:14
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moritz [Coke]: I hope you used tools/release-dates.pl to generate those? :-) 14:16
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dalek kudo/nom: 6a19d45 | lizmat++ | / (2 files):
Add some copyrights

Did I miss any?		 14:18
[Coke] moritz: no, I did it the old fashioned way. 14:24
because I've never heard of that program.
lizmat can someone explain me why the first ACCEPTS in Regex.pm is assigning to $dollar_slash ? 14:25
feels like a copy-pasto
dalek kudo/nom: 2542c3d | moritz++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
Mention tools/release-dates.pl in the release guide
moritz lizmat: as opposed to doing what? 14:26
lizmat well, for one, I don't see why the last $dollar_slash assignment is done 14:27
moritz lizmat: inlining the nqp::getlexrelcaller() call?
so that $/ is set?
lizmat: note that the first line is a binding, not an assignment
lizmat ah, duh
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abraxxa jnthn: I need help with NativeCall to get on with DBDish::Oracle, do you have time to help me and if yes when? 14:42
especially passing utf16 encoded strings and their length in bytes
pmurias masak: after gsoc it was at the almost bootstrapping point. It was running at sub-parrot speeds which was embarassing. The code quality was horrible. I then set on a rewrite of the code-gen and a cleanup. 14:45
masak: currently the next thing will be multis
masak: progress is currently stalled as I'm busy with other things 14:46
github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/blob/mas.../run_tests contains the current list of passing tests 14:47
...broken link.. (fixing) 14:48
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pmurias github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/blob/mast.../run_tests 14:54
masak pmurias++ # work so far 14:55
pmurias++ # status update for the curious
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hoelzro morning #perl6 15:35
masak \o 15:36
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masak maybe now that it's 2015, we should start asking people what, if any, future point they're still waiting for when Perl 6 gains some capability, after which they would start adopting Perl 6, or adopt it more? 15:53
dalek rl6-roast-data: 44f39b7 | coke++ | / (5 files):
today (automated commit)
 15:54
[Coke] my ideal six would be a nice DB interface and me actually doing something useful with mojo6. 15:55
masak that does sound rather wonderful. 15:56
it also aligns well with my goal of (re-)building November using a modern Rakudo stack.
hoelzro mojo6++ 15:57
[Coke]: do you have a repo started for that?
colomon masak: personally, my impression is the biggest issue is making what we have now work 15:58
[Coke] hoelzro: aye. haven't touched it in a while: github.com/coke/mojo6 stuff that is there is only the cleaned up utils.
colomon having module precomp and threading unreliable is disheartening 15:59
[Coke] well, I have a personal focus this year of trying to make $dayjob more fun, so here we go.
masak colomon: that's very true.
colomon: how can we get better at that in the short term? in the long term?
hoelzro I would also like to see a more reliable precomp 16:00
colomon masak: I don't know
if I knew, I probably would have made time in my schedule to fix it. ;)
hoelzro although I think the problem with colomon's ABC is the only outstanding issue, but the circumstances are so bizarre and convoluted, that it probably indicates a deeper problem =/
colomon hoelzro: I fear the only reason it's the "only" outstanding issue here is that it's one of the more complex p6 projects out there. 16:01
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hoelzro oh, I completely agree 16:01
I have tried several times to find out the reason for it =/ 16:03
I think that task is for someone with far greater Moar fu than I
colomon anyway, if you'd ask me a year ago I'd have said performance, performance, performance. There's still lots of room for improvement here, but "making it work" has a higher priority IMO
skids precomp and threading stability/performance definitely at the top of the list. For me native sized int and uint support also pretty high. Remaining diamond composition problems are a pain but not a blocker. 16:05
I tried to do some work scripting in P6/Inline-P5 but the async stuff was causing segfaults and it topped out at 1KHz passing emits between asyncs, too slow. 16:06
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liztormato skids: afaik, diamond precomp issue only exists on jvm 16:08
skids No, with roles they are on all backends.
liztormato Are there tests for that? 16:09
skids r: role A { has $.a }; role B does A { }; role C does A { }; role D does C does B { }; D.new
camelia rakudo-parrot 80b912: OUTPUT«Attribute '$!a' conflicts in role composition␤ in any apply at gen/parrot/Metamodel.nqp:1727␤ in any compose at gen/parrot/Metamodel.nqp:1817␤ in any specialize_with at gen/parrot/Metamodel.nqp:2249␤ in any specialize at gen/parrot/Metamodel.…»
..rakudo-moar 80b912: OUTPUT«Attribute '$!a' conflicts in role composition␤ in any apply at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:1662␤ in any compose at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:1752␤ in any specialize_with at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2184␤ in any specialize at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:22…»
skids r: role A { method foo }; role B does A { }; role C does A { }; role D does C does B { }; D.new 16:10
camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} 80b912: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Missing block␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> role A { method foo ⏏}; role B does A { }; role C does A { };␤»
skids oops.
jnthn Roles are *flattening* composition. 16:11
yoleaux 13:39Z <lizmat> jnthn: I was under the impression that it could basically become a sub call internally ?
btyler_ skids: async + Inline::P5 stability at least partially involves the programmer not trying to access a single perl5 interpreter's guts from multiple p6 threads
jnthn And we decided that attributes declared in a role should be visible in the composing class. 16:12
skids btyler_: thanks I'll see if that helps/
btyler_ there was a PR merged into Inline::P5 today that mentions the need for a perl with -Dusemultiplicity if you want to go that direction
basically: make sure you've got a different I:P5 object for each thread
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jnthn .tell lizmat The optimizer (Perl6::Optimizer) already has logic for optimizing away the dispatch:<!> call in most cases. 16:12
yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
skids jnthn: so that means...? I'm no CS major. 16:13
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sjn \o 16:14
vendethiel skids: that's not CS-related. basically, "does"-ing a role is like copy-pasting its content 16:16
so you effectively end up with `role D { has $.a; has $.a; }`
skids Right, but last time I looked, there was language explicitly permitting crony roles to do that in the spec.