»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 25 December 2014.
00:01 Peter__R left 00:02 Peter_R joined 00:04 adu joined
Adriaaan Hmm k, thanks :D 00:05
raydiak_ m: my $b = Buf.new; $b[$_] = (rand*256).Int for ^1e6; $b[10..20]; # if you want them all up-front, this is faster and lighter on memory, at least under moar, than reifying a 1M-elem lazy list
camelia ( no output ) 00:06
raydiak_ m: my $b = Buf.new; $b[$_] = (rand*256).Int for ^1e6; say $b[10..20];
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«123 40 187 193 207 221 119 32 58 245 82␤»
raydiak_ m: my $b = Buf.new; $b[$_] = (rand*256).Int for ^1e6; say $b[10..20]; say now - BEGIN now 00:08
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«73 31 57 102 32 3 210 95 126 206 237␤10.3548619␤» 00:09
jercos is there currently a way to work with arbitrary FDs in rakudo-moar?
e.g., ./something.pl 3</tmp/foo, can I read from FD 3, and close it when I'm done? 00:10
I mean, specific to Linux with a mounted /proc I know I can open /proc/PID/fd/3 and get a dup of it 00:11
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masak jercos: not to my knowledge. 00:16
raydiak_ would nativecall to posix functions be more portable?
jercos Probably, at least within Unix-like platforms. 00:17
That would also allow for closing the FD, which to my knowledge can't be done with /proc
raydiak_ I think the notion of file descriptors like that pretty much rules out windows anyway, no?
geekosaur I don't think the point was /proc 00:18
Adriaaan thanks raydiak_
geekosaur perl5 can do open my $fh, '<&3' on both posix and windows
raydiak_ hm
what does that do?
yw Adriaaan :) 00:19
jercos If that dups (which it looks like it should), then it's still not useful for closing the original file descriptor
which still leaves nativecall as the best option for that specific need
I'll uh, give it a test :p
geekosaur that won't close the original, no 00:20
if you want sysopen, you're looking at nativecall. probably a wrapper that does the posix or windows versions as appropriate 00:21
perl5 probably should have done that except that I don't think the machinery was in place for that kind of thing when sysopen and friends were added 00:22
(which iirc was lateish in perl3)
jercos heh, well, `our sub sysclose(int32) returns int32 is native("libc.so.6") is symbol("close") { * }` works fine for the moment :) 00:28
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masak fil_! \o/ 00:37
fil_ hey 00:38
question
So I'm looking at github.com/supernovus/exemel/blob/...ib/XML.pm6
thinking about how to print out indented XML
and I see that I really just want to shim a few lines of code into a couple of methods
in that class
masak *nod*
fil_ is there some kind of aop I could use to do that?
masak I would just use multi subs. 00:39
why complicate life, eh?
multis are awesome for this.
AOP solves all your problems, but at the cost of someone or something's sanity. 00:40
we like sanity
(believe it or not)
fil_ so the method I want to modify is XML::Element::Str() 00:41
masak oh, an existing method.
I think my multi approach is still viable 00:42
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fil_ this method calls itself recursively 00:43
so it's not clear to me how I would use multi to solve it...
masak dang :/
no
Mouq .wrap-ing? 00:44
fil_ I thought I saw some AOP type stuff in the docs
masak it exists
doesn't mean I endorse it
fil_ I think they're called Phasers 00:45
masak augmenting stuff is anti-social
Mouq or doing an `augment` and then doing $indent ~ nextsame
skids No phasers are flow control.
If you can get the rest of the classes to use a subclass of XML::Element, you could just subclass and supply your own .say.
I mean .Str 00:46
fil_ It's a pretty big method
And I only need to change a couple of lines
hmmm
maybe I need to take a different approach
it just seems like a waste to not use the XML structure and recursive print already done...
I guess I could just treat it as a string 00:47
I was hoping there would be some way to intercept the call of XML::Element::Str() and then inject a few lines of code... 00:48
masak doesn't consider most AOP to be good OOP 00:50
fil_ Well it's not that big a method. Only 30 lines. Can I overwrite it?
masak `augment class`
fil_ I agree AOP makes for horribly complicated code that's impossible to follow / debug.
masak it causes a power struggle between auths of classes 00:53
fil_ Can I overwrite a method using augment, or do I need to use supercede?
I mean supersede
masak supersede replaces the class entirely 00:54
fil_ I just need to replace a method
masak yes
I believe `augment` should work for your use case. 00:58
last time I tried, it didn't (and jnthn claimed that was intended)
even if it did work, I know of no good way to refer to the method being replaced from the replacing one 00:59
no bad way either, for that matter
fil_ augment class XML::Element { multi Str() { 01:00
that takes
but within the method I get the error: Variable $.name used where no 'self' is available
interesting...
masak heh
Mouq multi makes a sub
you want multi method 01:01
masak yes
fil_ I don't know of my multi would take precedence over the original sub, but it won't compile because it doesn't have a self... 01:02
masak you don't want a sub at all 01:03
skids ^^ What Mouq said
masak `self` is not available in a sub
(or rather, outside of a method)
fil_ ===SORRY!=== Cannot have a multi candidate for 'Str' when an only method is also in the packa ge 'XML::Element' 01:04
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masak that'd be the original method 01:04
fil_ :-) 01:05
masak it's `only`, meaning not `multi`
fil_ Well I guess that's a good thing that you can't override other classes methods...
masak meaning the original author did not intend for you to add a `multi` afterward 01:06
yes, but it kinda makes `augment` a lot less powerful
fil_ ok I guess it's plan B
just forget the XML structure and treat it as a string match/replace problem 01:07
masak or just copy/modify the logic in your own routine
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fil_ I'd need to do the whole class because of the recursion 01:08
I want to make something other ppl can use 01:09
raiph fil_: did you see irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-01-24#i_9997806? 01:11
yoleaux 23 Jan 2015 12:53Z <psch> raiph: i apparently missed fixing marshalling of List-y types for non-overloaded methods. that's the error you're seeing with "method/update/([B)V"
raiph fil_: I think FROGGS was suggesting that A) you can use his new module and B) .gist is a better place for indenting logic than .Str 01:13
fil_ looking at XML::LibXML now 01:16
FROGGS says "will soon be able to prettify XML"
How soon is soon?
what does "gist" mean? 01:18
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raiph Returns a string representation of the invocant, optimized for fast recognition by humans. 01:18
japhb So I'm thinking of pitching Perl 6 to people who are on the fence about it as an excellent language for prototyping, because of the multi-paradigm aspect that makes that statement true almost whatever the "final" language will be, combined with much more compact syntax than most other languages, with the follow-up that they may find the prototype is good enough to not need total replacement (at least in the post-6.0.0 era). Thoughts? 01:19
fil_ I'd investigate how mature the bindings are to front-end and db frameworks 01:21
japhb fil_: Meaning, without mature for those two things, it's not ready to pitch as a prototyping language? 01:22
fil_ gist() has the same problem as Str() so I can't override it. I'm making good progress with the string approach. I won't bother sharing it as it sounds like a more permanent solution is coming.
colomon japhb: I’ve had some decent luck prototyping in p6. Though in the biggest case the project got canceled before I could start mangling it into C++... 01:23
fil_ I'm new to perl6, so I'm not a good person to ask. But in my experience, prototyping needs speed, and speed needs no-brainer bindings to front-end and back-end.
skids Also now we have Inline::Perl5 to take the pressure off the ecosystem needs a bit.
fil_ node.js / angular is good for prototyping. 01:24
it has it all
it could be that perl6 has it too
perl6 is a dream language if you're doing parsing / integration type work
01:25 fil_ left
masak yep. 01:26
'night, #perl6
colomon o/
japhb fil_: OK, good input, thank you. 01:29
skids: Decent point. Last I looked it could use a little more sugar to make it really smooth, but as a technology, very cool. 01:30
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Peter_R I often see a lot of cool features of p6 using very unreadable looking syntax though :s 01:34
I hope there is a longer hand, more self explanatory way to use those things 01:35
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skids Peter_R: people like to show off, is all. 01:44
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Peter_R Ah, thank goodness 01:45
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vendethiel Peter_R: right. it's just a "I can do it that way, lol" like we were doing with indirectly named calls earlier 02:00
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japhb Peter_R: Yeah, generally you have a pretty smooth knob for complexity per character of code in Perl 6. We who have been here a while tend to use shorthand, or even as mentioned above play around and show off. But you can definitely be more verbose and approachable to beginners, while *still* being more compact than many other languages. 02:05
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Mouq moritz: So I'm going to manually index the various bits from regexes.pod via X<|> (+, *, <[ ]>, <-[ ]>, etc.)... my question is what category should these things be? "Regex Syntax"? "Regex Metacharacter"? My concern is that the category name(s) should be pithy so it actually fits in the search suggestion list 02:17
skids I dunno "Rx Slang?" 02:24
Mouq "℞ Metachar" seems a little far 02:27
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dalek c: a3701a0 | Mouq++ | lib/Language/regexes.pod:
Index the various bits of regex syntax
 03:49
c: 36a7751 | Mouq++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm:
Fix deprecated code warning (uniq -> unique)
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TimToady m: say (1..100000).roll(1000) 04:24
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«95331 55844 33254 83882 47805 18876 76896 10775 62979 92343 18244 38064 40059 4978 35662 48270 68573 3512 32207 65144 87412 39775 86642 1309 33914 2836 62423 57913 74684 30618 89642 72568 67256 56071 41681 15280 24688 77655 89858 40629 87495 55608 52267 14…»
TimToady that's probably a better way to produce lots of random integers
I guess the original wanted (^100000).roll(1000000) or so 04:25
wrt the xml method, I'd want to know what in the design prevents overriding/wrapping a method via normal subclassing 04:29
something is behaving non-virtually to make that difficult, it would seem 04:30
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dalek kudo/coerce-multi: 9faa0e7 | hoelzro++ | src/ (2 files):
Start on implementation of COERCE

COERCE is a multi that takes a value and a type object; users wishing to define special semantics for how a value of a given type is coerced to other type may implement the appropriate candidate for COERCE to perform that coercion. The default is call a method of the same name as the type object's class on the value.
This implementation doesn't work on; it fails a few spec tests, because sometimes, it seems, COERCE refers to a Null repr?		 05:44
hoelzro so I started working on an implementation of COERCE, per the discussion last week 05:45
unfortunately, some of the spec tests fail on my code; it seems that in BOOTSTRAP.nqp, it can't find COERCE, which I defined in Any.pm
the line in question is this: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/coer....nqp#L2649
if someone could help me diagnose the problem, I'd be grateful! 05:46
sleep &
moritz Mouq: I'd index them just as "regex \N" or so 05:50
Mouq moritz: Hmm, yeah 05:52
dalek c: 1c80bad | Mouq++ | lib/Language/regexes.pod:
Classify regex metachars as "regex". moritz++
 05:53
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moritz just for the record, this is the first time I'm doing such big/complex documentation project, so my opinion is as good as any other 05:55
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Mouq moritz: Right, but a) you're really good at documentation b) I hadn't considered just using "regex", kind of an "Oh, duh" moment there 06:08
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[Tux] FWIW The Nil is only droppen on assignment 08:09
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[Tux] m: (1,Nil,2).perl.say 08:09
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«(1, Nil, 2)␤»
[Tux] m: my@x=(1,Nil,2);@x.perl.say 08:10
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2)␤»
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dalek c: 2385768 | moritz++ | lib/Language/regexes.pod:
Prevent a newline from breaking apart a code block
 08:29
moritz feedback to the pod folks: I find highly annoying that newlines in indented code blocks break up that code block into two
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dalek kudo/nom: da6755b | lizmat++ | src/core/Any.pm:
Fix adverbed slices on the JVM

Apparently, doing an nqp::atkey on an key that does not exist, creates some internal confusion on the JVM, causing adverbed slice breakage after my last optimization in that area.		 09:13
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brrt \o 09:13
just a thought that occured to me; in python something i'd really want is a shorthand for 'does this compute without raising an exception, and if so, what is it's value'.... 09:14
that's what failures are for, aren't they
nwc10 are you prepared to wait forever for your answer? :-) 09:16
I believe a certain Turing chap would have advice for you if you wanted to say "No"
brrt hmm
that's not really the kind of thing i'm aiming at
nwc10 so, "not sure" is an acceptable answer from your function? 09:17
brrt if this only applies to guaranteed-to-terminate functions, like most coercions are, then i'm quite happy
m: my $x = "foo"; say $x.Int;
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏foo' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in method Int at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14131␤ in method Int at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6334␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/AISzqMEl5J:1…»
brrt right, and that'd be something where i'd want a softer version, something that said '.IntPls' 09:18
:-)
or even: my $x = please $y.Int; 09:19
which i'd think be the perlish thing to do 09:20
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brrt and my suspicion is that this is already in the language and that i don't know it 09:20
FROGGS m: my $x = "foo"; say $x.?Int; 09:24
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏foo' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in method Int at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14131␤ in method Int at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6334␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/nCsrdHsP2x:1…»
FROGGS m: my $x = "foo"; say $x.?hurz;
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
FROGGS m: my $x = "foo"; say $x.hurz;
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«No such method 'hurz' for invocant of type 'Str'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/lbuCWDQvQ_:1␤␤»
FROGGS m: my $x = "foo"; say $x.Int.WHAT; 09:25
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏foo' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in method Int at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14131␤ in method Int at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6334␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/QCSjRVUTD3:1…»
FROGGS so, it dies instead of failing
brrt m: my $x = "foo"; try { say $x.Int; } CATCH { say "OH NO"; } 09:26
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/0D481pW9JV␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/0D481pW9JV:1␤------> my $x = "foo"; try { say $x.Int; } ⏏CATCH { say "OH NO"; }␤ expecting any of:␤ infix stopper␤ …»
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brrt ugh 09:26
FROGGS m: my $x = "foo"; try { say $x.Int; CATCH { say "OH NO"; } }
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«OH NO␤Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏foo' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in method Int at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14131␤ in method Int at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6334␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/SNMDAC…»
FROGGS m: my $x = "foo"; try { say $x.Int; CATCH { default { say "OH NO" } } }
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«OH NO␤»
FROGGS hmmm 09:27
there was an RT ticket about that IIRC
brrt about which of them 09:28
FROGGS about not catchable exceptions and .?foo misbehaviour
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psch irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-10-25#i_9564960 # this is related 09:32
coercion passes through CATCH for some reason currently, which is buggy
i'm not aware of any .?-misbehavior
#123053 a ticket 09:33
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=123053
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Kristien fortune just told me a quote from TimToady 09:47
does this mean today is my lucky day?
moritz Kristien: it means today is your Perl 6 day :-) 09:52
Kristien :D
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brrt oh, try as expression already makes a failure 10:04
that's more sensible than my suggestion
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psch hm, &die goes past try but fail doesn't, except in "foo".Numeric..? 10:09
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psch m: sub foo { die "bar" }; say try foo; 10:10
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
psch m: class Foo { method Numeric { fail "can't .Numeric Foo!" }; }; my $foo = Foo.new; say (try $foo.Numeric).WHAT; say ($foo.?Numeric).perl
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«(Failure)␤Failure.new(exception => X::AdHoc.new(payload => "can't .Numeric Foo!"))␤»
psch m: class Foo { method Numeric { die "can't .Numeric Foo!" }; }; my $foo = Foo.new; say (try $foo.Numeric).WHAT; say ($foo.?Numeric).perl
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«Nil␤can't .Numeric Foo!␤ in method Numeric at /tmp/9AV_wkjPUF:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/9AV_wkjPUF:1␤␤»
psch i'm confused :P
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psch m: sub foo { fail "bar }; say try foo 10:14
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/2X3zVQPoAN␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ␤at /tmp/2X3zVQPoAN:1␤------> sub foo { fail "bar }; say try foo⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any …»
psch m: sub foo { fail "bar" }; say try foo
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«bar␤ in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14135␤ in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16907␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/F0h4_hdEjv:1␤␤»
psch which one of sub and method is wrong there? it seems to me like that should be consistent...
in sub, fail goes through try, in method die goes through try
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lizmat m: say (^10).map: { $_ if $_ > 5 } # this idiom will not work post GLR, right ? 11:25
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«6 7 8 9␤»
lizmat m: say (^10).map: { next unless $_ > 5; $_ } # a better idiom? 11:26
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«6 7 8 9␤»
vendethiel m: say (^10).grep: { $_ > 5 }; # the better idiom?
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«6 7 8 9␤»
lizmat vendethiel: yes, but grep is built on top of map :-) 11:27
vendethiel that seems like an implementation detail, tho :)
lizmat in any case, it's not really an answer to my question :-)
andreoss m: say (^10).map: { last if $_ > 5 ; $_ } 11:28
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5␤»
lizmat I think the first case depends on Nil disappearing in lists when it shouldn't 11:29
Kristien vendethiel: what did you mean by flattening yesterday? 11:30
vendethiel Kristien: flattening in general 11:31
Kristien could you give an example?
vendethiel m: for (1, (2, (3, (4)))) { .say }
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
masak good afternoon, #perl6
Kristien vendethiel, Oh I see. 11:32
m: for [1, [2, [3, [4]]]] { .say } 11:33
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4␤»
Kristien m: for [1, [2, [3, [4]]]] { .gist.say }
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4␤»
Kristien :O
psch Kristien: that's subject to change, see pmthium.com/2014/10/apw2014/
eh, wait
it's not, op-ish for stays flattening iirc 11:34
anyway, pmichaud++'s blog has details about how we rather want it
vendethiel Kristien: [] doesn't flatten 11:35
m: for [1, [2, [3, [4]]]] { .perl.say; say "||";} 11:36
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«[1, [2, [3, [4]]]]␤||␤»
Kristien oh right should use .perl not .gist
psch m: my @a = 1,2,3; my @b = 0, @a; .perl.say for @b
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤»
psch m: my @a = 1,2,3; my $b = [0, @a]; .perl.say for $b 11:37
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«[0, 1, 2, 3]␤»
psch m: my @a = 1,2,3; my $b = [0, @a]; .perl.say for @$b
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤»
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masak for some reason, no other language has looked at Perl and gone "wow, flattening! gotta copy that feature!"... 11:39
vendethiel yeah, for "some" reason ;-)
Kristien JavaScript did it with futures
and it turned out to be a horrible idea in that case
masak Kristien: really? url?
Kristien goodbye generic code
psch lizmat: how do you expect (^10).map: { $_ if $_ > 5 } do turn out post GLR? having ^10 inside $_ and returning the whole Range? 11:40
Kristien masak: robotlolita.me/2013/06/28/promises-...similation
lizmat psch: good question: I would need to look at pmichaud's post again :-) 11:41
Kristien so instead of having map and flatMap (which you should), you have then, which does both depending on the return value of the callback has a property with a certiain name
s/depending on/depending on whether/ 11:42
lizmat psch: that would iterate over a single range object 11:44
m: say (^10).flat.map: { next unless $_ > 5; $_ } # need to flatten the range post GLR
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«6 7 8 9␤»
lizmat m: say (^10).for: { next unless $_ > 5; $_ } # would still flatten post GLR 11:45
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«6 7 8 9␤»
psch lizmat: that's how i read it as well, with (^10).for: { ... } probably being the best candidate for a "new" idiom
lizmat psch: yep 11:46
psch (^10, 10..^20).map: { #`[ work on two Ranges ] }
i have that right too, right? :)
lizmat psch: yeah, that's the idea 11:49
masak Kristien: oh, that discussion. 11:57
Kristien yes :D
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masak Kristien: I mentally summarized it as "the JavaScript world split between formalists (in minority) and people who just want to get stuff done" 11:57
I'm usually on the formalists' side, and they usually end up being "right". 11:58
but I don't fully grok what this discussion was about, despite reading lots about it.
including one gargantual github issue in some promises repo.
dalek kudo/nom: f65b4c0 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any.pm:
Fix post-GLR mapping behaviour

  (^10).for: { $_ if $_ > 5 } will not work post-GLR: the grep family and all of
the filtering slice adverbs were depending on this behaviour.		 11:59
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masak gargantuan* 12:22
lizmat would it ever make sense to use "gather map {}, @list" instead of "gather for @list {}" ? 12:25
masak lizmat: that's hard to answer.
lizmat I mean, inside the map we do a conditional take 12:26
masak lizmat: but I do have a "useless use of gather/take" meme, which sometimes makes me replace "gather/take" with just "map".
lizmat seems like that's mixing metaphors
masak yes, that's my feeling too.
but I wouldn't go so far as outlawing it, or saying it would never make sense.
for example, conceivably, the `map` might compute something, and *also*, at the same time, emit stuff through `take`. 12:27
lizmat yeah, but it doesn't in the case I'm looking at
masak oh, I didn't know you had a case. you said "ever", which made me go hunt for contingenceis. 12:28
contingencies*
lizmat yeah, ok, so there *might* be a case
masak also, you managed to trigger my "no-one will *ever* need this" fallacy alarm.
lizmat hehe 12:29
ok, fair enough
ab5tract lizmat: are you saying that the two are functionally equivalent? i think flattening will be the "list context"-like gotcha for perl6 .. so when it is possible to remove equivalent approaches, it reduces the strain on the programmer to remember whether this different way of doing a thing actually does anything differently, or if its just a different way to say it 12:31
dalek kudo/nom: d671638 | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
Stop mixing the metaphors!

Commit 52262988372 added a gather to fix $a.= uniq. But that made the map a bit bogus. So use a loop instead of a map, for clearer code. This does not seem to have any efficiency effects.		 12:32
ab5tract for instance, is map { }, @things the same as map { } <=== @things ? i think there is an optimal level (N) of linguistic variety after which the advantages of saying things N+Y different ways diminish 12:36
ab5tract might be committing heresy? 12:37
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psch ab5tract: ==> and <== are strictly lazy, while map { }, @list is mostly lazy 12:40
hoelzro good morning, #perl6!
masak \o 12:41
psch hoelzro \o
ab5tract: that distinction is NYI though, afair
ab5tract psch: so mostly lazy would be, "lazy until demonstrably finite" ? 12:42
psch S07:Levels of laziness
synopsebot Link: perlcabal.org/syn/S07.html#Levels_of_laziness
ab5tract hiya hoelzro :)
ab5tract notices that synopsebot is still linking to perlcabal
psch ab5tract: so mostly lazy is "eager until encountering something lazy" 12:43
* + caveats, i suppose
masak ab5tract: github.com/tadzik/synopsebot
hoelzro is there a special thing one has to do when invoking Perl 6 multis from NQP land? 12:44
masak don't think so
hoelzro I'm trying to implement my COERCE idea, but some of the spec tests fail because of "Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Null, cs = 0)" 12:45
psch hoelzro: for the deprecation for :from<java> i got the sub with $*W.find_symbol, but i don't think you have $*W in BOOTSTRAP
ab5tract okay, i'll withhold tuits from worrying about levels of laziness, map {} vs .map, etc until after the GLR
hoelzro hmm
psch hoelzro: you could try bindhllsym and getcurhllsym, like it's done for the ModuleLoader, but i don't know how sensible that is or if it actually works 12:46
*gethllsym rather, getcurhllsym does lexical lookup i think 12:47
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FROGGS the 'cur' is about the current high level language, like 'nqp' or 'perl6' 12:48
psch ah ok
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Kristien Should .perl use fully qualified names? 12:49
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Kristien m: module M { class C { } }; M::C.new.perl 12:53
camelia ( no output )
Kristien m: module M { class C { } }; M::C.new.perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«C.new()␤»
Kristien hmm
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psch m: { die "foo"; CATCH { default { .perl.say } } } 12:54
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«X::AdHoc.new(payload => "foo")␤»
psch m: module M { class C { method perl { "M::C.new()" } } }; M::C.new.perl.say 12:55
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«M::C.new()␤»
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ab5tract m: module Q { my $deep = 15; my sub ex( $x ) { $deep * 15 }; our sub give_ex { &ex } }; my $sub = Q::give_ex; $sub(88).say; 13:03
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«225␤»
psch m: module M { class C { } }; my $c = EVAL M::C.new.perl; say $c.perl # it does break the .perl contract like this 13:04
camelia rakudo-moar 243c16: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling EVAL_0␤Undeclared name:␤ C used at line 1␤␤»
ab5tract does the value of $deep get inlined into &ex? or does it do a lexotic lookup?
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ab5tract and how could i determine which of the two is happening, if possible? 13:16
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ab5tract masak: that link implies that synopsebot already should be pointing to design.perl6.org 13:24
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GREATFOLLOW hello guys 13:31
lizmat GREATFOLLOW o/ 13:32
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hoelzro thanks for the help, everyone! I got it working 13:39
dalek kudo/coerce-multi: 0ef2b67 | hoelzro++ | src/ (2 files):
Start on implementation of COERCE

COERCE is a multi that takes a value and a type object; users wishing to define special semantics for how a value of a given type is coerced to other type may implement the appropriate candidate for COERCE to perform that coercion. The default is call a method of the same name as the type object's class on the value.
This implementation doesn't work on; it fails a few spec tests, because sometimes, it seems, COERCE refers to a Null repr?		 13:40
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ab5tract hoelzro++ 13:42
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dalek kudo/coerce-multi: c3de05f | hoelzro++ | src/ (2 files):
Start on implementation of COERCE

COERCE is a multi that takes a value and a type object; users wishing to define special semantics for how a value of a given type is coerced to other type may implement the appropriate candidate for COERCE to perform that coercion. The default is call a method of the same name as the type object's class on the value.		 13:44
hoelzro sorry for the spam
the part of the commit message saying how it doesn't work was no longer relevant =)
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dalek ast/coerce-multi: 03ed810 | hoelzro++ | S02-types/COERCE.t:
Start implementing tests for COERCE
 13:53
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ab5tract must have been really tired when reading the lexotic stuff in the synopses, as it is not related at all to his earlier question 14:00
i was using the perl6 spec as bed time reading over the holidays, which clearly is a double-edged sword ;) 14:01
dalek kudo/coerce-multi: 27c6f9a | hoelzro++ | t/spectest.data:
Use new COERCE test in roast
 14:03