»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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MasterDuke samcv: have you seen probablydance.com/2017/02/26/i-wro...hashtable/ ? 00:01
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samcv no i haven't 00:02
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Herby_ I need a little help with completing this grammar 00:04
gist.github.com/sylints/2936b68a0b...145dd47797 00:05
as a learning exercise, I'm trying to parse torrent file names and extra information. Its a JS and Python library that gave me the idea: github.com/divijbindlish/parse-torrent-name
my problem is that when using a grammar, how do I account for an unknown string? The way the python library handles it is extracting all the other relevant parts from the file name, and then the leftover part must be the title 00:06
MasterDuke samcv: i believe jnthn has referenced it as a potential source of ideas for redoing MVMHash entirely
Herby_ at the bottom of the gist, you can see it two examples. when I don't include an unknown title, it matches fine. if I add a title, it fails because I can't figure out how to account for it
samcv MasterDuke: that would be neat 00:07
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MasterDuke Herby_: try .subparse 00:08
Herby_ hmmmm
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MasterDuke Herby_: .parse *must* match the entire input, .subparse will match just parts of the input 00:11
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Herby_ I was hoping that there was a regex pattern that I could have be checked last in the grammar, as essentially a "catch all" 00:12
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Herby_ but my regex skills are weak and I don't think thats doable 00:12
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MasterDuke well, you could just add .* at the end 00:15
but what do you mean "checked"?
Herby_ not sure. i'm flailing a bit :) 00:18
maybe grammars aren't the best way to tackle this. maybe the Python route of using for loops and regex might be better
let me rephrase: maybe grammars arent the best for my current skill set
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MasterDuke have you read moritz++'s grammar book? 00:19
but .subparse didn't do what you want? 00:20
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Herby_ MasterDuke: I did buy moritz book. Just started it 00:20
MasterDuke cool, he'd be much better help than i 00:21
Herby_ fiddling with subparse now
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Herby_ MasterDuke: thanks for taking a look 00:25
MasterDuke welcome 00:26
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Geth marketing: dbe669e1b2 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Implement thumblerizer
 00:31
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Geth rakudo.org: e307ea61e5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
[REAPP] Add -L to curl so it follows any redirects
 00:36
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Guest94188 can perl6 read keyboard interactions? getc does not detect shift for example 00:44
getc also needs the user to press enter 00:47
buggable New CPAN upload: PDF-Class-0.1.7.tar.gz by WARRINGD modules.perl6.org/dist/PDF::Class:cpan:WARRINGD 00:48
MasterDuke Guest94188: i think there's a module that provides lower level access
lookatme the termios ?
MasterDuke buggable: eco termios
buggable MasterDuke, Found 2 results: Term::termios, Term::termios. See modules.perl6.org/s/termios
MasterDuke yeah. i haven't used it though, so can't provide any actual help 00:49
geekosaur shift requires event / gui level
timotimo docs.perl6.org/routine/getc#Buffering_terminals - Guest94188 check out these two sections
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BenGoldberg I would suggest looking through the modules in modules.perl6.org/t/TERMINAL and seeing which one best suits your ultimate task, rather than saying, "I need getc" and then trying to solve your task with it. 00:51
Also, these: modules.perl6.org/search/?q=term 00:52
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Guest94188 how do you set the terminal to "unbuffered"? 00:56
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timotimo you need termios for that 00:57
Guest94188 is that `$termios.setattr(:DRAIN)`? 00:58
pilne so, silly question... what's the general update procedure for when a new rakudo version comes out? delete and a fresh make/install?
Guest94188 is it possible to capture magic sysrq keys before it reisubs? 00:59
geekosaur only by hackingt he kernel 01:00
Guest94188 lets say you want to make an interactive tutorial where the learner is in a simulation mode
geekosaur you fully expect that every program gets to see every single keypress, including magic sysrq and other special kernel overrides? 01:01
or keys that mean things only to gui programs, like shift, that literally cannot be delivered to a program in terminal mode, only in gui mode?
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Herby_ pilne: I've pondered that myself. I don't have an answer that I'm confident in :) 01:15
pilne i'm attempting to use "checkinstall" to make that process a bit easier for myself in the future if that is what it comes down to (: 01:16
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Herby_ clear 01:18
whoops!
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BenGoldberg If you use rakudobrew, you can have multiple versions installed simultaneously. 01:24
Geth doc: 033880b1bc | 陈梓立++ | doc/Type/utf8.pod6
Eliminates useless X<> tag
doc: 0827139c57 | 陈梓立++ | htmlify.p6
Merge branch 'master' of github.com/perl6/doc
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/utf8
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pilne i thought rakudobrew was not reccomended at one point in the recent past? 01:30
or am i thinking of a different tool?
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geekosaur rakudobrew is not generally recommended for perl6 users as opposed to developers, because it complicates a number of things for users 01:31
but allows developers to keep multiple versions around and switch between them easily
(the way it does that is known to interfere with things like automatic usage messages) 01:32
pilne fair enough 01:33
so is the general process (for now) to just do a make uninstall with the old version, and make install with the new?
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Herby_ pilne: I might be imagining this but I think I remember being told just install the new version over the old 01:37
but if you do have an easy way to uninstall the old, then might as well (i'm a linux rookie)
pilne i'm mostly a "i don't like windows" linux user, so i'm far from advanced, despite being advanced in my years :D 01:38
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Herby_ m: my $s = "test's()z"; $s.=subst(/[\'\(\)]/, '', :g); put $s; 02:26
camelia test's()z
Herby_ ...
if I have a list of characters I'd like to remove from a string, whats a good way to go about it?
for instance, if I have to remove any of these characters: . \ / ( )
m: my $s = "test's()z"; $s.=subst(/<[\'\(\)]>/, '', :g); put $s; 02:27
camelia testsz
Herby_ :) 02:28
geekosaur docs.perl6.org/routine/trans
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Herby_ thanks, I hadn't seen that method before 02:29
do you know how it compares in performance to .subst?
geekosaur I would expect it to be faster 02:30
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geekosaur but don;'t know for certain. but avoiding the regex (list of chars instead) should count for a lot 02:30
Herby_ i'll give it a whirl. thanks! 02:31
i hope to have this project done by the end of the week so I can get some feedback
I think my regex mutilation is going to make some people cry
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Geth marketing: 78dc1d71b4 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 10 files
Implement pages preview pop outs
 04:08
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hahainternet i just want to pop in and say how much i appreciate the weekly updates still 04:14
i don't have time to keep up with things as much as i'd like
and it's lovely to have somewhere to read concise details
donpdonp hahainternet: that sounds good, where do I find the updates? 04:15
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hahainternet donpdonp: p6weekly.wordpress.com/ 04:18
donpdonp thx 04:19
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Geth ¦ doc: JJ self-assigned Create a new page with info about OS portability github.com/perl6/doc/issues/670 05:55
El_Che Zoffix: I see you already changed the curl instructions. THx 06:00
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Geth doc/master: 6 commits pushed by (JJ Merelo)++ 06:15
llfourn m: my \⍴ = 42 06:19
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Malformed my
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my7⏏5 \⍴ = 42
moritz .uni ⍴ 06:21
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moritz .u ⍴ 06:21
yoleaux U+2374 APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL RHO [So] (⍴)
moritz not an identifier
m: multi term:sym<⍴> { 42 } 06:22
camelia ( no output )
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moritz m: multi term:sym<⍴> { 42 }; say ⍴ 06:22
camelia 42
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jmerelo I've deleted Codeship from the perl6/doc repo integrations. It was actually doing nothing, and I couldn't find the way to make a fast test using Docker, since it does not have Docker installed 06:29
TEttinger but moritz! rho, rho rho of x, always equals one, merrily merrily merrily merrily APL is fun! 06:32
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moritz TEttinger: you should put that on rhosettapoems.org :-) 06:37
TEttinger it's one of a few almost-well-known APL quotes. along with "Tis the dream of every hacker / before his day is done / to write three lines of APL and make the damn thing run" 06:38
the other quotes being pure profanity and howls 06:39
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moritz sounds like a fun culture all around 06:50
Geth doc: JJ self-assigned Suggestions for expanding the Community page github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1920
ae860521ba | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/community.pod6

With links to the perl6.org community page, and Perl 6 weekly. Closes #1920.
If anyone's got more suggestions, feel free to reopen and/or make a pull request.		 06:54
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/community
TEttinger moritz: to be fair, the howls are only from newcomers who are trying to port an old hand's codebase after they retired, and the profanity is mild compared to the obscenity of RPG programmers 06:59
El_Che omg, I just got travis + bintray working for creating rakudo repos 07:00
(poc for now, to see how it works)
jmerelo El_Che: what's bintray? Kudos, OTOH
El_Che jmerelo: an artifact distributor (e.g. maven, rpm, deb, repos, etc) 07:01
they have a free model for foss
stmuk_ I can't install p6doc on 2018.01 anymore "Expected MAST::Frame"
El_Che integration with travis means a lot of yaml, json, gpg and api keys :)
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stmuk_ this is probably a good argument for increased doc bundling since anyone installing a rakudo release won't necessarily be able to install docs a few months later 07:03
llfourn moritz: so not every greek letter is an identifier?
is there any reason for that?
moritz llfourn: oh, greek letters are identifiers
llfourn: but the character you posted was a U+2374 APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL RHO, not a greek character 07:04
jmerelo moritz++
moritz m: my \ρ = 42; say ρ
camelia 42
llfourn m: my \ρ = 42
camelia ( no output )
moritz works fine
llfourn ahhhh
moritz .u ρ
yoleaux U+03C1 GREEK SMALL LETTER RHO [Ll] (ρ)
llfourn thanks moritz++
moritz llfourn: you're welcome :-)
llfourn I'm kind of curious about this APL and why it needed a special rho 07:05
is that a path I want to walk down? 07:06
jmerelo llfourn: it's an 80's language that uses lots of special symbols for operations. You probably don't want to go that way.
llfourn jmerelo: thanks! 07:07
feels good to be a 90s kid
jmerelo llfourn: yep, you didn't have BASIC as a first language... 07:08
moritz had QBASIC as the first language 07:09
llfourn no I had visual basic as my first language lol
moritz line numbers were optional, yay!
jmerelo feels old
El_Che jmerelo: don't let these hipsters let you down!
jmerelo El_Che: all those memories are coming back... Like reserving <1000 line numbers for subroutines in ZX Spectrum's Basic... Or learning that GOTO was bad... 07:10
Or the joy of using a computer called "NewBrain". 07:11
Amazing graphics, BTW, es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundy_NewBrain
Sorry, that's Spanish en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundy_NewBrain 07:12
El_Che wow
you *are* old
El_Che ducks :)
just kidding :)
jmerelo El_Che: that's simply a fact... 07:13
El_Che I find it funny my kids say that the radio "is crashing" when there is some interference
jmerelo El_Che: that's rich :-) 07:15
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Geth doc: JJ self-assigned language/modules is too weak on tooling github.com/perl6/doc/issues/431
ccce1a2239 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/modules.pod6

Hopefully, closes #431. Please feel free to reopen and/or change.		 07:21
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/modules
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stmuk_ jmerelo: github.com/perl6/perl6-pod-to-bigpage/issues/15 07:34
El_Che stmuk_: oh 07:37
that's sad
jmerelo stmuk_: I think it can be safely removed. I'll try that. 07:38
stmuk_ yes the test uses http.perl6.org/robots.txt correctly 07:41
El_Che: it's sad we are cross platform and don't just work on linux? :)
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El_Che sad the my windows brothers and systems don't get ssl 07:42
:)
stmuk_ probably the correct solution would be to use the windows native ssl library but I've no idea how to do that 07:43
or particular interest in doing it :)
jmerelo stmuk_: pardon me if I'm wrong, but isn't SSL supposed to be deprecated in favor of TLS?
stmuk_ I'm using SSL loosely to mean TLS just like everyone else does like the OpenSSL people for example 07:44
jmerelo stmuk_: ah, OK :-)
So, all this SSL dependence thing is due to portability problems? Does it work on macs? 07:45
stmuk_ macOS uses openssl
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Geth perl6-pod-to-bigpage: JJ++ created pull request #16:
Removes SSL module dependency		 07:54
perl6-pod-to-bigpage: d912bf170d | (JJ Merelo)++ | META6.json
Removes dependency from IO::Socket::SSL

Which probably was there for no reason, anyway. Refs #15
perl6-pod-to-bigpage: 01d69594f9 | (JJ Merelo)++ | README.md
Improves documentation
perl6-pod-to-bigpage: 397bfaf5f6 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 2 files
Merge pull request #16 from JJ/master

Removes SSL module dependency
jmerelo stmuk_: done. Thanks for the heads up :-)
stmuk_ jmerelo++ 07:56
Geth doc: JJ self-assigned Blob.allocate not documented github.com/perl6/doc/issues/917
201d90a4ba | (JJ Merelo)++ | shippable.yml
 08:01
doc: f7d88ec0a2 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Channel.pod6
Clarifies `list` for Channel

Based on @jnthn answer. Closes #879.
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Channel
doc: f1207d9bfb | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Blob.pod6
Checking if `allocate` is documented.

It apparently is, so I have just improved the description based on the linked code. Closes #917.
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Blob
jmerelo I'm test-driving shippable to see if I can get a faster test there but it's rather useless unless I make the container based build work (which I haven't) app.shippable.com/github/JJ/doc/ru...ame=master 08:04
There are two ways of using containers: one, provide your own container. However, it's got to be based in Ubuntu, and the `doccer` container right now is based on Alpine
Two, use your own container, but since Shippable also launches a container there's a bit of directory mounting involved I haven't been able to fathom so far. Here's the issue I have opened github.com/Shippable/support/issues/4270 08:06
Last thing I've tested is to cache perl6 modules, which takes 4 minutes. But it simply does not work, or I couldn't make it work.
So now we have a Shippable based test, which runs only prove, and is slower than the Docker-based full tests. But at least it runs in parallel. 08:07
Any suggestion will be appreciated.
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AlexDaniel jmerelo: what editor are you using? 08:28
El_Che releasable6: stztus
releasable6 El_Che, I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Releasable
El_Che releasable6: status
releasable6 El_Che, Next release in ≈4 days and ≈10 hours. 6 blockers. 224 out of 239 commits logged
El_Che, Details: gist.github.com/27c21c591055cd270f...b1167fd384
Geth doc/master: 4 commits pushed by (Luca Ferrari)++ 08:29
AlexDaniel El_Che: heh, you can misspell “releasable6” but not “status”… that's LTA
rlesable6: status 08:30
rleasable6: status
releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in ≈4 days and ≈10 hours. 6 blockers. 224 out of 239 commits logged
AlexDaniel, Details: gist.github.com/b28a15f93f6c6c6ace...c5b2b2a34c
AlexDaniel El_Che: :) github.com/perl6/whateverable/issu...-381898110
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jmerelo AlexDaniel: right now, El_Che's packages, but the problem is it takes a while to install modules. 08:49
AlexDaniel jmerelo: no I mean text editor
jmerelo AlexDaniel: Ah, sorry. In general, I use emacs, but I tend to use Atom for pod6, since emacs support for that is nil. 08:51
AlexDaniel: why?
AlexDaniel: you want to prove hypothesis that Emacs is old folk's preferred editor?
AlexDaniel jmerelo: there's “Show Invisibles” textbox in Editor Settings 08:52
or maybe “showInvisibles: true” in the config, I don't know really 08:53
use it, please :)
jmerelo Emacs does, but Atom does not. 08:54
I think I know what you mean...
AlexDaniel that's for Atom :)
El_Che jmerelo: modules? It would be trivial to build a deb with the included modules 08:57
jmerelo: I probably have a private repo doing that :)
Geth doc: 1a66f2c942 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Blob.pod6
Eliminates trailing whitespace
 08:58
doc: 7799883ec8 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/nativecall.pod6
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Blob
Link: doc.perl6.org/language/nativecall
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I have found some of them. Thanks for the tip. Any other place where I should take them off? 08:59
AlexDaniel jmerelo: no, just please keep that option enabled in your editor at all times, so that you're not producing any extra :)
jmerelo AlexDaniel++ 09:00
El_Che AlexDaniel: autch, me bad typist 09:03
jmerelo p6: my Blob $b0 = Blob.allocate(10,0) 09:04
camelia ( no output )
jmerelo p6: my Blob $b0 = Blob.allocate(10,0); $b0
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
Useless use of $b0 in sink context (line 1)		 09:05
jmerelo p6: my Blob $b0 = Blob.allocate(10,0); $b0.say
camelia Blob:0x<00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00>
Geth doc: a6c13ad466 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Blob.pod6
Adds example to Blob

After this question
  www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6...g4731.html
in the perl6-users list		 09:07
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jkramer For the record, in vim I use this for whitespaces, maybe someone can use it: gist.github.com/jkramer/65abdae02e...66aa077e73 09:29
Juerd I have a simpler one: match WhitespaceEOL /\s\+$/ 09:32
Do you happen to know what the extra metachars in your vim regex do? 09:33
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jkramer Juerd: I was just thinking about that too when I looked at it, I actually don't know. :) I copied that snippet to my config from somewhere else ~10 years ago :D 09:34
From help: \%# Matches with the cursor position. 09:36
Juerd In fact, your regex doesn't seem to work here...
Altreus vim has list and listchars
one of which is trailing whitespace 09:37
set listchars=eol:⏎,tab:▸–,trail:—,extends:⇉,precedes:⇇,nbsp:␣
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Altreus not that this works 09:37
I keep meaning to figure out why
lizmat clickbaits p6weekly.wordpress.com/2018/04/16/...6-so-that/
yoleaux 16 Apr 2018 21:44Z <timotimo> lizmat: i think "the fix makes moarvm significantly faster" is wrong, the performance difference is not noticable
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lizmat .tell timotimo updated 09:39
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
Juerd Altreus: I can't use listchars because I like to copy/paste snippets between terminals 09:40
Altreus: So I have all my whitespace highlights set up as color coding only
Altreus Ah, I can't do that anyway because I usually have something else in the way, like NERDTree or line numbers 09:41
for some reason I can't easily turn off line numbering when I have it in relative mode
vim is kinda pesky tbh
Juerd gist.github.com/Juerd/cc4a187aeb5c...d31e53e30b 09:42
This is also why I don't use line numbering, indeed :)
tyil Altreus: cant you just copy it into the system clipboard buffer? stackoverflow.com/questions/396185...im#3961954 09:43
Altreus I'm not usually running vim on the system I'm typing on
tyil Juerd: *
Altreus It doesn't work across SSHes, or even tmux windows, apparently
tyil that could be an issue 09:44
I generally run vim locally, so it works pretty well
I guess I could make a plugin to send the selection to a paste site and have vim :echo the url
Juerd tyil: I probably could, but two decades of using select+paste with the mouse have left me unwilling to learn a different method for each program :)
Altreus or just use emacs in vim mode :D 09:45
jkramer Juerd: It works for me. I think sometimes vim doesn't refresh the highlighting instantly sometimes, try ctrl+l.
tyil Altreus: thats just evil
if you know what I mean :')
Altreus I like the cut of your jib 09:46
Juerd jkramer: Ah, indeed, with ^L it does show. Interesting that it needs that; my simpler regex doesn't
jkramer Juerd: Happens only sometimes apparently. I only noticed for the first time when I just tested it. 09:53
Juerd lizmat: Thanks for yet another weekly :)
jkramer Although I don't know what the extra stuff after \s\+ is supposed to do, so I guess I'll just use yours from now on. :) 09:54
lizmat Juerd: you're very welcome :-)
Juerd jkramer: It seems to mean: if the cursor is at the end of the line. But it doesn't do that. 09:55
Or maybe if the cursor is not at the end of the line
Vim regexes are a much higher level voodoo than Perl regexes
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jkramer Juerd: I guess it's supposed to prevent highlighting spaces at EOL when you're still editing the line so not every space you type will instantly be highlighted as error. 09:58
But yeah, doesn't seem to work that well. :)
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Geth rakudo.org: 8507e7436d | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | templates/files-rakudo-third-party.html.ep
[REAPP] Fix OpenSUSE URL
 10:04
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Geth marketing: b6c184cbe3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/assets/sass/main.scss
Toss ded CSS
 10:57
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Zoffix .ask [Coke] hypothetical scenario: someone is organizing a Perl 6 event and wants to make prints of some of the marketing materials in our marketing repo. Would TPF be willing to pay the printing costs? If yes, what's the process for getting that funding? 11:18
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
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scovit Hello, when one would use native arrays and when one would use Bufs? 12:02
moritz native arrays when you want to do numerical calculations with the elements 12:04
and Bufs when doing binary IO 12:05
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scovit are there any issues in doing binary IO with native arrays? 12:20
moritz I don't think it's implemented 12:21
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timotimo not quite 12:28
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timotimo Buf[int8] and my int8 @foo are almost indistinguishable to the ops that do IO 12:28
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timotimo they don't look at classes, they only look at REPRs and the size of the individual elements 12:29
and those are both VMArray under the hood
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buggable New CPAN upload: Lingua-Stem-Es-0.0.1.tar.gz by CHSANCH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/C/CH/...0.1.tar.gz 12:38
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Geth doc: b12182b88d | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 3 files
whitespace
 13:30
doc: 94ce89fe67 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 2 files
This isn't Perl 6 code
doc: 31641d8602 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Type/Blob.pod6
Fix compile time error in code sample
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Blob
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[Coke] .tell jmerelo you can test your local doc changes with the full test suite with this: github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/C...ning-tests 13:32
yoleaux 11:18Z <Zoffix> [Coke]: hypothetical scenario: someone is organizing a Perl 6 event and wants to make prints of some of the marketing materials in our marketing repo. Would TPF be willing to pay the printing costs? If yes, what's the process for getting that funding?
[Coke]: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
[Coke] zoffix: I'd talk to the events committee. (I've heard it called that, but don't see that here: www.perlfoundation.org/who_s_who) 13:34
(maybe it's really "conferences" ?) 13:35
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lucasb Seems like some JS table sorting magic is happening in the operator precedence table at docs.perl6.org/language/operators 13:46
they get sorted by associativity, and NOT from tightest to loosest like I would expect
with JS turned off, it sorts correctly
anyone can confirm what I'm seeing? 13:47
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Geth doc: 684d429ce5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | assets/js/main.js
Don't sort operators precedence table
 14:09
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Geth perl6.org: ccworld1000++ created pull request #106:
Chinese translation resources		 14:21
perl6.org: f693a6332f | CC++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/resources/index.html
Chinese translation resources

Chinese translation resources (中文翻译资源)		 14:26
perl6.org: ad5d990ad3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/resources/index.html
Merge pull request #106 from ccworld1000/patch-1

Chinese translation resources
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[Coke] zoffix: should that have been an && or an || ? 14:49
(line 15 of github.com/perl6/doc/commit/684d429ce5)
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Zoffix [Coke]: &&: "where first column's header is 'A' and second colums's header is 'Level'; don't set sorting" 14:51
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[Coke] ah, misread the depth there. Thanks. 15:19
Geth marketing: f20cddd2ee | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 12 files
Toss Rakudo/6lang "Concise" posters

Keep messaging consistent, until official marketing alias exists		 15:20
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Geth marketing: 3c33982543 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 7 files
Add "Perl 6 Concise" poster
 15:24
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Geth marketing: a4ea563b7f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 32 files
Organize archive into material types
 15:26
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Geth marketing: f68fe7b60e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 70 files
Move SQUASHathon posters to archive

We don't make 'em anymore (kinda'f a PITA to make them monthly).		 15:27
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lucasb Thanks Zoffix++ for fixing the operator table 15:53
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Geth marketing: c50da67681 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 13 files
Add new "Regex Poster"
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museum-items: c204e4666d | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 2009/Periodic-Table-of-Operators.md
Create Periodic-Table-of-Operators.md
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Geth ¦ doc: JJ assigned to coke Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937 16:33
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¦ doc: JJ assigned to lizmat Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
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jmerelo travels in a train through Portugal 16:39
yoleaux 13:32Z <[Coke]> jmerelo: you can test your local doc changes with the full test suite with this: github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/C...ning-tests
Geth marketing: 656c0adbbf | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 7 files
Use Transparent Wing Camelia for Regex Poster
jmerelo [Coke]: OK 16:40
Geth ¦ doc: zoffixznet self-unassigned Spin off Perl6::Documentable github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937 16:42
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Geth marketing: 40958e85c9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Add Soft-Black ver of Transparent Wings Camelia
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marketing: 626cf826f6 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 8 files
More tweaks to "Regex Poster"

  - Use soft-black version of Camelia
  - Use more realer regex for swear word
  - Fix kerning
  - Reduce colors		 17:01
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Geth doc: cfa self-unassigned Spin off Perl6::Documentable github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
00982d91fc | 陈梓立++ | README.zh.md
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Update README.zh.md
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Update README.zh.md
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Geth doc: e6f0dfd8be | 陈梓立++ | 2 files
Merge license stuff in README
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Geth doc: 1759e05da5 | 陈梓立++ | README.zh.md
Update README.zh.md
 18:09
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[Coke] using a slightly out of date rakudo; I have a block that I am trying to de-||ize; it's this block: github.com/perl6/doc/blob/coke/bui...#L228-L243 18:18
if I remove the array and the start, and the await, I get errors about mismatched types. if I remove the array and set the start to a scalar, and then "await $scalar", same error. if I await Promise.allof: $scalar --- that works. 18:19
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Geth ¦ doc: W4anD0eR96 self-unassigned Spin off Perl6::Documentable github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937 18:24
¦ doc: AlexDaniel self-unassigned Spin off Perl6::Documentable github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937 18:25
jnthn [Coke]: Yes, because Promise.allof doesn't convey errors, it's just used for sequencing 18:26
[Coke] in that case, i suspect that parts of the doc build have been failing for some time and it's been hidden behind that. 18:29
Danke.
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jnthn
.oO( Bitte-sweet... )
 18:30
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[Coke] oh, wow. few dozen pages are not getting processed. wonder if this is responsible for any open tickets. 18:34
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jnthn Note that if one wants to wait for a bunch of results, then `await` in Perl 6 is slurpy so you can `await $p1, $p2, @p-these`, etc. 18:34
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perlawhirl bisectable6: say dir.sort(&lc) 18:38
bisectable6 perlawhirl, Bisecting by exit code (old=2015.12 new=ceeb3a0). Old exit code: 0
perlawhirl, bisect log: gist.github.com/f1dd78f91bf09798c9...eb4cce8b3b
perlawhirl, (2018-02-21) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cd...7b598e0bfb
[Coke] this may explain this comment: github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/h...#L162-L164
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AlexDaniel perlawhirl: can you please leave a comment here? github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/15...-373856074 18:43
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Geth doc/coke/build: 16 commits pushed by (Will "Coke" Coleda)++
review: github.com/perl6/doc/compare/c8c49...d51097e54b		 18:45
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perlawhirl AlexDaniel: Will do... was just looking to see if there was issue mentioning this already 18:46
FWIW, the current workaround for this case is simple: dir.sort(*.lc) works fine 18:47
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moritz .fc is recommended for sorting/comparison 19:06
perlawhirl thanks, moritz 19:08
Bowlslaw is there any way to run perl 6 on my rpi3? 19:10
I've tried many times but it lacks the RAM
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AlexDaniel Bowlslaw: are you trying to compile it yourself? 19:13
just take a deb and install it
huggable: debs
huggable AlexDaniel, CentOS, Debian, Fedora and Ubuntu Rakudo packages: github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases
AlexDaniel oh wait… no arm packages here 19:14
Bowlslaw yes i'm trying to compile it
:(
moritz might need a swap file
and compilation will be slooow with swap
AlexDaniel Bowlslaw: well, is that on debian stretch? 19:15
apt install rakudo should give 2016.12, isn't that good enough
?
you can add unstable repo and install 2018.03
that's what I've been doing for rpi
Bowlslaw AlexDaniel well isn't 2 years a big difference for perl 6 ? 19:16
how did you add that repo?
AlexDaniel well the easiest way is to just edit /etc/apt/sources.list and add some extra lines with “sid” there 19:19
same ones that you have with “stretch”
be aware that mixing unstable & stable packages is potentially bad, but it should work just fine if you're only going to install rakudo like this 19:20
El_Che: by the way, what about arm packages? 19:22
Bowlslaw AlexDaniel: thanks
AlexDaniel Bowlslaw: did that work? After adding a repo it should be as simple as apt update && apt install rakudo 19:23
Bowlslaw I don't have access right now, I have to try later
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Zoffix FWIW, looking at the list of blockers make me think we should skip 2018.04 release and make any new changes for the next 4 weeks in a "post-release-2018.05" branch. With master left for blocker resolution and testing. 19:40
AlexDaniel this is a tough month for sure 19:41
Zoffix The multies blocker alone is quite a bit of work to fix. And the rare hang + memory leak + random stresstest floppers. As much as trust jnthn's superpowers, kinda hard to see all those being fully resolved in 3-10 days.
AlexDaniel alright, let's look…
releasable6: status
releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in ≈3 days and ≈23 hours. 8 blockers. 224 out of 239 commits logged
AlexDaniel, Details: gist.github.com/c9ab4986ca2723f178...5ef8f7265b
AlexDaniel big endian issue seems to be resolved, just awaiting confirmation 19:42
Zoffix The R#1736 can be ignored. Those are easy and just PRing fixes to modules.
synopsebot R#1736 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1736 [LHF][⚠ blocker ⚠] Toaster results show several modules' tests rely on buggy Num stringification
Zoffix R#1566 is also an easy workaround, if any new routines are even affected
synopsebot R#1566 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1566 [regression][⚠ blocker ⚠] multi built-ins are not assignable to Callable
AlexDaniel new stress test floppers are actually not very new, if I got everything right 19:43
or at least some of them
so optimistically we are down to 4 19:44
Zoffix So it's a rare hang + random stresstest floppers + SEGV + memory leak + reworking all the routines that care about .count to examine multies
stresstest floppers *are* new. I almost always run stresstests instead of spectest and these just recently started popping up.
AlexDaniel ok 19:45
I don't know what to do with the memory leak, it's not very significant
Zoffix And the "rare hang + random stresstest floppers + SEGV + memory leak" ones have a bus factor issue
AlexDaniel but it is noticeable in whateverable
right
Zoffix And we gonna base Star off this release, so any LTAness will linger around for 3months
xq why is it a problem to test numbers with is() ? 19:46
Zoffix xq: because that routine stringifies everything except type objects.
xq: it's a really bad testing routine (for historical reasons, really) 19:47
xq why is it a problem to stringify numbers?
timotimo it can be problematic if you were relying on it rounding for you
m: say 10 - 1e-15
camelia 9.999999999999998
timotimo m: say 10 - 1e-14
camelia 9.99999999999999
timotimo m: say 10 - 1e-16
camelia 10
Zoffix m: use Test; is .1e+.2e0, .3e0
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> 3use Test; is .1e7⏏5+.2e0, .3e0		 19:48
timotimo wow, i accidentally hit exactly the right spot
Zoffix m: use Test; is .1e0+.2e0, .3e0
camelia not ok 1 -
# Failed test at <tmp> line 1
# expected: '0.3'
# got: '0.30000000000000004'
timotimo Zoffix: omg, the regex poster %)
xq what about rats and ints ?
I understand that it's bad for floating point and rounding
timotimo you might also want to assert that the type is correct 19:49
Zoffix xq: well, the problem most of them stringify to the same thing: Int 1, Num 1e0, Rat 1.0; they'll all stringify the same. But you could have a routine that takes only one of them
xq: or in other words, what exactly are you testing?
AlexDaniel Zoffix: IMO let's not cancel 2018.04 release just yet, we can give it a day or two from now to see which direction it's going… if even more blockers pop up then yeah, but sometimes magic happens. Also we can just delay it by a week or more if needed. 19:50
Zoffix relocates
AlexDaniel: sounds good
xq the whole thing just caught my eye as confusing; in perl5 I test integer scalars vs each other with is() without thinking twice if it was '123' or 123
and I was wondering if it's different/problematic in perl6 19:51
very simple real example - I retrieve a row from database by a search on unique key, and test if the id column (bigint) equals to a known value 19:54
japhb xq: perl5 has a fuzzier line between strings and numbers than Perl 6 does. For example, the special case of the string "0" being false because it can be numerified to 0 no longer exists. Also, Perl 6 numbers don't cache their own string representation unless they are explictly allomorphs.
Zoffix m: use Test; is 1000000000000, 1e12 19:55
xq would is() still work in perl6 for my example?
camelia ok 1 -
Zoffix m: use Test; is 1000000000000000, 1e15
camelia not ok 1 -
# Failed test at <tmp> line 1
# expected: '1e+15'
# got: '1000000000000000'
Zoffix m: use Test; cmp-ok 1000000000000000, '==', 1e15 19:56
camelia ok 1 -
Zoffix xq: ^
xq: Perl 5 doesn't have types so it matters less
xq I would never use scientific notation :P
powers of 10 if anything 19:57
japhb xq: It always pains me when we phrase it like that. It *does* have types. Just not anything like Perl 6 does.
xq m: use Test; is 1000000000000000, 10**15;
camelia ok 1 -
xq m: use Test; is 1000000000000000, '1000000000000000'; 19:58
camelia ok 1 -
xq good enough for me
japhb m: (10**15).WHAT.say
camelia (Int)
japhb That's because we detect Int exponentiated to Int, and make sure it stays Int. 19:59
Zoffix m: use Test; is (((((42,),),),),), 42 20:01
camelia ok 1 -
Zoffix xq: how abou this? ^ You made a bug that caused your routine to return a quintuple-nested list and your test didn't even catch it 20:02
xq lol 20:03
Zoffix m: sub (Int) {}(1.0)
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '<anon>'; expected Int but got Rat (1.0)
in sub at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
xq are lists not flat in perl6 ?
Zoffix xq: orhow about this ^ your routine was meant to return an Int but it regressed to return a Rat, breaking user's code and your test didn't catch it 20:04
no, there's no auyo-flattening
xq wow
that's a pretty major difference
Zoffix is-deeply is the right test routine most of the time
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Zoffix xq: it's a completely different language 20:05
xq yeah...
Zoffix m: '0' and print 'Perl 6' or print 'Perl 5'
camelia Perl 6
Zoffix perlbot: eval: '0' and print 'Perl 6' or print 'Perl 5' 20:06
perlbot Zoffix: Perl 6
Zoffix eval it with p5 stupid bot
xq uhh
timotimo perlbot: eval: print $[
perlbot timotimo: ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/kLpoM_EQ8p Unable to parse expression in array composer; couldn't find final ']' (corresponding starter was at line 1) at /tmp/kLpoM_EQ8p:1 ------> print $[⏏<EOL> [Exited 1]
xq those both were perl6 right
timotimo right, that's 6
20:07 reportable6 left, unicodable6 left, undersightable6 left, evalable6 left, committable6 left, notable6 left, quotable6 left, bloatable6 left, nativecallable6 left, coverable6 left, bisectable6 left, statisfiable6 left, greppable6 left, benchable6 left, releasable6 left, squashable6 left, shareable6 left
Geth doc: 2fd7d90d8a | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6
Tries to fix HTMLify errors
 20:09
doc: 05ca7b3e28 | (JJ Merelo)++ | 17 files
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/operators
xq I have installed rakudo star by building from a source tarball. Is there a way to somehow install modules into this perl6 ? 20:10
I did not do make install
just using rlwrap ./perl6 inside ./rakudo/
timotimo yes, you can "git clone" or unzip/untar module sources and add their directories with -I 20:11
xq aha, I see
timotimo some modules do require a build step before their installation, and i'm not sure if that's easily doable without doing an actual install 20:12
xq I just realized that I can actually do a make install
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xq so doing that, it's installing in ./install 20:12
timotimo yup, that's the default --prefix value 20:13
xq very convenient
Zoffix xq: the one way I know is using step 12 from this guide (without last line) to setup path and install zef and then you can just use zef to install modules: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast..._guide.pod
timotimo i have my perl6 in ~/perl6/install - and a second no-experiments perl6 in ~/build/stableperl6/install (for when i put massive debugspam or potentially crashy stuff in my regular perl6 and need to run some perl6 commands with a working perl6)
xq is there something like perlbrew ? 20:14
timotimo for what purpose do you want it?
we have rakudobrew, but its purpose is to let you switch between many rakudo versions with a single command, but it makes everything else more complicated
comborico1611 I cannot find perl6-mode on Emacs through Melpa archive.
Zoffix comborico1611: check in perl/perl6-mode on github 20:15
xq: there's rakuduo and lonestar
xq I think the most value of perlbrew for me is that it automatically setups local::lib
timotimo you mean rakudup?
Zoffix yeah
comborico1611 I see why. I'm on Emacs25. 20:16
Zoffix: Thanks though!
Zoffix for that use rakudup ir lonestar
huggable: sauce
huggable Zoffix, Install latest version of Rakudo from source: github.com/zoffixznet/r#table-of-contents
Zoffix xq: ^ I just use that bash alias
20:16 pharv left
Zoffix xq: rakudup: rakudup.github.io/ 20:17
xq: lonestar github.com/Tyil/lonestar
xq thanks Zoffix 20:18
I understand that updating rakudo or installing another one is not a problem
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xq the module management however still is not exactly clear. As I understand, 'zef' is the tool to install modules (like cpanm?) but does it install modules 'globally' or per-rakudo-installation ? 20:19
also, does perl6 support installing modules per-project (carton-style) ? 20:20
20:21 Zoffix left
timotimo rakudo can load modules from anywhere that you pass a -I for, i believe zef has an install "into" functionality 20:21
Geth doc: 5dc5869e95 | (JJ Merelo)++ | Makefile
Eliminates debug code
timotimo i have not tried any of this yet, and i don't think there's a nice tool for this workflow yet
but having a tool like that would sure be nice :)
xq I see
well, this is weird 20:25
m: use Test; is(1, 1); 20:26
camelia ok 1 -
xq m: use Test; is (1, 1);
camelia Cannot resolve caller is(List); none of these signatures match:
(Mu $got, Mu:U $expected, $desc = "")
(Mu $got, Mu:D $expected, $desc = "")
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
xq ' ' between is and ( matters? Perl6 has significant whitespace?
AlexDaniel yes, it does matter in that case. with “is (1, 1)” you're passing a list as an argument 20:29
xq ... seriously?
AlexDaniel what's bad about that?
timotimo if you don't like it, you can use Slang::Tuxic 20:30
xq this is going to take some time getting used to
is all I can say
timotimo you can leave out the parens, too :) 20:31
jmerelo 6lang.org is returning a 503: travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/jobs/367836916
lizmat xq: use Slang::Tuxic
AlexDaniel jmerelo: I know, I know
jnthn Note that this design choice means that `say ($a + $b) * $c` does what it looks like :)
lizmat xq: it will allow you to "is (1,1)"
xq no it's fine 20:32
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xq it's a new language after all 20:32
also being able to omit () is probably going to make it irrelevant anyway 20:33
this is a pretty big thing
does perl6 have something like deparse? 20:34
timotimo hm, deparse gives you back source code, right? 20:35
xq yes
timotimo we don't have that yet
xq ok
timotimo what we do have is --target=ast (and =optimize)
lizmat timotimo: that's not what deparse is 20:36
timotimo you can gleam what the code you wrote does by using that, though
lizmat *that* is true :-)
lizmat is tired and not quite as coherent as she thought she would be
night!
timotimo night liz! 20:38
github.com/zoffixznet/q - this is useful if you're working with --target=ast or optimize
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AlexDaniel jmerelo: fixed 20:39
xq the --target thing looks slightly like too much for now
[Coke] (p6doc) processing issues with head C<...> and X<C<...>> that were hidden by the previous code. 20:40
xq I'll stick to figure out the basics - make a function, make a module, make a CLI script using this module, make a test, make a webapp
timotimo sure :) 20:43
can always ask in here
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jmerelo [Coke]++ 20:44
Geth doc: coke self-assigned Parallel processing is broken, even with --parallel=1 github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1938
d1c19d5a43 | (JJ Merelo)++ | 2 files
 20:46
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[Coke] I'm working on that in the coke/build branch, if I can extract my fixes back to master, will do so. 20:48
comborico1611 I don't care for the error message you get when you call the same function you are defining: 20:51
Calling seconds() will never work with declared signature ($raw)
at seconds.p6:1
But I'm not sure what is possible. 20:53
[Coke] if 'seconds' takes an arg and you try to call it without one, it will fail.
m: sub seconds($raw) { 'hi' } ; seconds(); 20:54
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Calling seconds() will never work with declared signature ($raw)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub seconds($raw) { 'hi' } ; 7⏏5seconds();
[Coke] doesn't matter if the call is coming from inside the sub you're defining or not
comborico1611 I see. Thank you!
[Coke] m: sub seconds($raw) { 'hi' } ; seconds(3);
camelia ( no output )
[Coke] you can define an optional arg with ?
m: sub seconds($raw?) { 'hi' } ; seconds();
camelia ( no output )
comborico1611 I didn't know that! I just got confused. I've been playing around with Lisp lately. 20:55
What is the name of that ? operator?
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comborico1611 I would liek to read more at docs. 20:56
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geekosaur it's not an operator, it's part of a signature. indicates an optional parameter 20:56
so lokk at docs for signatures 20:57
*look
comborico1611 I see. Thank you!
Found it: Constraining Optional Arguments
[Coke] \o/ 20:58
comborico1611 *high-five 20:59
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pmurias_ www.graalvm.org/ - graalvm 1.0 has been released 21:05
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[Coke] wonders how much we could speed up repeated doc builds if we cached the highlighting work. 21:11
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jmerelo [Coke]: I don't think that takes the most time... 21:17
[Coke] it's a large part of the "writing type document" time, IIRC. 21:18
jmerelo [Coke]: Hum. Maybe a couple of minutes
pmurias: does it do Perl 6? 21:19
[Coke]: Travis caches module directories... docs.travis-ci.com/user/caching/ 21:20
[Coke]: and I haven't managed to make Shippable cache work properly. 21:21
[Coke]: we could create a data container with Docker... and cache it there. 21:22
comborico1611 geekosaur: Actually, I didn't find ? in the signature article of Docs.
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Zoffix reads reddit comments and notices a broken telephone effect with Zoffix's profession.
I don't work in branding or advertising :) I work as multi-media designer in a marketing department of a company that sells stuff :) 21:26
jmerelo I'm going to call it a day 21:27
jmerelo says Bôa Noite da Coimbra 21:28
Zoffix \o
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pilne i don't work in anything programmming related, i'm a dabbler, that can't keep away from perl6 for long :D 21:41
in the mmorpg analogy i'm the "cheerful but unhelpful npc"
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Zoffix :) 21:44
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simcop2387 What does it take to port rakudo/nqp/etc to a new VM? Just curious after reading about GraalVM 21:47
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Zoffix I think you'd largely just port the nqp ops 21:49
Like these three dirs are compilers for specific VMs: github.com/perl6/nqp/tree/master/src/vm
Also, some here: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/master/src/vm
tadzik blogs.oracle.com/developers/announcing-graalvm look, ma, Parrot in a new hat! 21:50
simcop2387 basically, :)
tadzik "Our vision was to create a single VM that would provide high performance for all programming languages, therefore facilitating communication between programs" :D 21:51
Zoffix comborico1611: it's here: docs.perl6.org/type/Signature#Opti...Parameters
simcop2387 it looks like they've actually got it working, though I don't know how well for a lot of cases
tadzik if I had a dollar every time someone said that I could probably get a beer already
simcop2387 news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16859559 # HN discussion about Graal
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comborico1611 Zoffix: Thanks! 22:22
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Geth museum-items: 776395ea47 | raiph++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 2000/State Of The Onion 2000 introduces Perl 6.md
Create State Of The Onion 2000 introduces Perl 6.md
 22:42
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Herby_ o/ 22:51
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Herby_ \o 22:58
timotimo ö 22:59
Herby_ timotimo: how goes it?
timotimo eh, rakudo release is looking a little rough 23:00
how's you? 23:03
Herby_ chugging along on my parsing project 23:04
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timotimo parsing projects is a good pastime 23:04
Herby_ yeah. it's helping me get a somewhat better grasp on the basics of grammars 23:05
timotimo: do you have a blog or some sort for the work you're doing with rakudo? 23:07
or am I imagining that
timotimo i do!
it's wakelift.de/
it's only got two posts so far, but i should really write another very soon
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Herby_ i look forward to a new one 23:09
timotimo glad to hear it :) 23:10
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Geth doc: 26fd96dcbb | (Christopher Bottoms)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/list.pod6
Code format for (minor edit)
 23:38
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/list
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