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Set by avar on 14 November 2006.
Alias_ Mostly, the CPAN recent uploads page :) 00:00
But rest assured once the core's running I'll be personally chasing people down
[particle] r0ck
TimToady ?eval multi infix:<min> ($a,$b) { min $a, $b } my $x = 42; $x min= 21; $x 00:06
?eval 42 00:08
funny, didn't see evalbot leave... 00:09
[particle] i think evalbot's been missing since feather had trouble 00:10
TimToady it joined 1:04 ago 00:11
TimToady ?eval 42 00:27
evalbot_r14757 42
TimToady when I do the infix:<min> and min= above in my pugs I get "*** Cannot cast from VInt 21 to Handle (VHandle)" 00:29
which might explain why evalbot eventually exited with a read error
mmm, it must be parsing it as $x min =21 00:30
that's going to be a rather irritating failure mode, I'm afraid... 00:31
ingy hola sixxers 00:58
diakopter ?seen TimToady 01:05
lambdabot TimToady is in #perl6. I last heard TimToady speak 34m 11s ago.
diakopter TimToady: has someone begun work on making a Synopses-coverage measurer/reporter for an implementation of perl6? 01:06
anyone? 01:09
[particle] diakopter: yes 01:16
getting link...
Khisanth ?eval prefix:<<><> ($foo) { say $foo } <>< "foo";
evalbot_r14757 Error: ␤Unexpected "prefix"␤expecting program
[particle] see smoke.pugscode.org/
lambdabot Title: Pugs Smoke Reports
[particle] diakopter: the SYN links to the right show tests intertwined with specs 01:17
TimToady ?eval sub prefix:«<><» ($foo) { say $foo } <>< "foo" 01:18
evalbot_r14757 OUTPUT[foo␤] Bool::True
chip__ TimToady: now if you could just fit the "3 John 2" in there somewhere, you'd be all set 01:19
TimToady lol 01:19
diakopter I wasn't thinking of how well the test cover the synopses, or how well the implementations cover the tests, or how well the tests cover the implementations, but on how well the implementation covers the synopses.
TimToady hmm, 3 John would be Jude...
3 John 2 rather
It always bugged me that books with only one chapter left out the 1: 01:20
chip odd the kinds of inconsistencies that nag
never bothered you that it wasn't "1 Acts"? 01:21
TimToady :)
chip was thrown off by the missing chapter too
TimToady Actually, I suppose Luke would be 0 Acts...
diakopter [particle]: ?
chip pick your actsis 01:22
TimToady rather pick my allies
chip comes up with an "all lies" chaining joke, but refrains 01:23
TimToady yeah, I thought of that one too. :)
diakopter: the only way to know that is to finish the test suite, and then look at the number of passing tests. 01:24
diakopter dare I ask how well the test suite covers the synopses? 01:31
TimToady that's what the smartlinks are trying to get a handle on. 01:35
avar fixed a lot of smart links earlier 03:34
avar /w 23 03:52
avar oopsie 03:57
dduncan ?eval my $foo = 'abc|def'; my @bar = split '|', @foo; print +@foo, join(',',@bar); 04:09
evalbot_r14757 OUTPUT[0] Bool::True
avar ?eval [Str.methods] 04:12
evalbot_r14757 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&methods"
dduncan I tried something different and got it to work in my own pugs 04:14
in any event, it seems that my Perl 5 isn't doing split() properly, as far as I can tell ... trying to split on a vertical bar just splits as if it were an empty string ... each character becomes its own array element ... very weird
does the vertical bar have some special meaning in a literal string in Perl 5? 04:15
chip dduncan: it has a special meaning in a regex 04:17
dduncan yes, but I said "split '|', @ary" 04:18
does split change that literal string into a regex?
chip dduncan: quote or slash, split works with regexes
dduncan okay
I just never encountered that behaviour before
thank you
chip backwhack it and you're golden
np
chip thinks we're both in the wrong channel 04:19
dduncan well I normally talk about Perl 6 here ... that was an odd exception
dduncan in any event, I discovered that pugs treated the split argument as a literal string ... or the | was taken literally in Perl 6 regexes 04:20
separately ...
chip dduncan: perldoc -f split for the gory details, including the special case of split ' ' 04:21
dduncan I noticed that my Pugs now does certain things that used to require readline to do, such as up-arrow command repetition
and I don't have readline
avar what's the operator to see whether two values are bound to the same value? 04:26
avar doing &MAIN op &?ROUTINE for a testcase
=== ? 04:27
dduncan avar, you want =:= 06:20
that lets you know if 2 symbols are aliases for the same container 06:21
the === operator will tell you if 2 containers hold appearances of the same universal value, which is different
Tokay morning 10:44
i don't know anything about perl, can you have embedded php?
Alias_ Can you embed PHP in Perl? 10:46
Yes
Tokay i made a random charactor script in php, someone has a perl script
validation script that is
or maybe i need to embed the perl into the php script 10:47
i'll have a play
Alias_ That seems terribly drastic
embedding like that is not something to do lightly
Tokay ok
Alias_ You know, that's probably a Perl module that does random characters for you
Tokay well i suppose i could convert the checking part of the script into perl
Alias_ there's
On CPAN I'm sure there's a random string generator 10:48
Tokay no i make the script and someone wants to use it with a script written in perl
made*
Alias_ Well, if you absolutely have to, use PHP::Interpreter 10:49
(the CPAN module)
search.cpan.org/perldoc?PHP::Interpreter
Tokay i might aswell convert it into perl
lambdabot Title: PHP::Interpreter - An embedded PHP5 interpreter - search.cpan.org, tinyurl.com/y9x7nw
Alias_ Tokay: Almost certainly you want to port it 10:50
Tokay phpfi.com/174897
Alias_ PHP::Interpreter is mainly for large apps where clients insist on PHP templating support
lambdabot Title: nopaste: pastebin with syntax highlighting
Tokay that's all i need to convert, i'm sure perl can use post
want to learn perl anyway 10:51
Alias_ Porting can be good for that 10:52
Tokay porting?
Alias_ Converting a program from one thing to another things
But doing the same task 10:53
Tokay ok
Tokay thanks btw 10:55
wolverian_ I wonder what's up with feather 12:22
GnuVince Morning people :) 13:49
Limbic_Region @tell Juerd FYI I have been experiencing intermittent problems connecting to CGI:IRC via feather over the last two days (2006-11-15) 13:59
lambdabot Consider it noted.
Limbic_Region salutations all 14:00
wolverian Limbic_Region, feather has been disconnecting and reconnecting from the rest of the internet for the past few days. it's not just you. :) 14:03
PerlJam reads "The Dream of a Perfect Language" in lieu of Eco's book 16:21
PerlJam thinks perl is asymptotically approaching "perfect" as far as computer languages go 16:29
Debolaz PerlJam: Perfect being the ability to express your thoughts as directly as possible? :) 16:39
PerlJam well ... more like "prefect" in the sense that I can bend my mind around it when necessary such that I've come to think in perl occasionally. 16:40
TimToady point is, "blurfl" may express my thoughts perfectly, but it doesn't communicate 16:42
TimToady you know, if we want Perl 6 to succeed, all we have to do is start the rumor that it was separately designed by 70 hermit/scholars who then came together and found that their results agreed perfectly. 16:45
lde TimToady: everyone said "lisp"? ;-) 16:54
sjn would like to propose a new Perl6 meme: "Reverseengineerability" 16:56
(have no idea if it's actually new, but if Perl6 could be made easy to reverse engineer, then I'd be happy :) 16:57
aufrank hi hi 16:58
TimToady reversible transformations are definitely one of the things we're thinking about.
howdy
lde the best thing that could be done is making obfuscators programmers life a bit harder i guess 16:59
aufrank does anyone know of a debian package for ghc 6.6 that will give me a ghc suitable for building pugs?
sjn how about reversible compilation? (i.e. s/language compilation/language translation/g) 17:00
aufrank I'm on ubuntu. I installed the ghc 6.6 from debian unstable, but it didn't have the extralibs built 17:00
TimToady sjn: you have to be careful not to throw away important information to be fully reversible. And certainly there are poeple who want to throw away the information because it contains trade secrets. 17:01
*people
aufrank nm, actually read the ghc download page 17:02
sjn is more concerned with making free software easier to dissect and understand :) 17:03
TimToady Ide: I've worked on some of the obfuscated examples in pugs/examples, and it does appear that it's slightly harder to obfuscate in P6. At least, the examples in question were more readable. Balancing that is that the examples were just using P5 idioms rather than P6.
sjn: if the author agrees to that, we should try to help. but I think we shouldn't force it on people. 17:04
I just want Perl to be useful, and that includes proprietary as well as free software.
sjn no forcing is necessary. just like everyone is free to strip(1) symbols from a compiled program... :) 17:06
TimToady I am, after all, part of the reason we ended up with the term "open source" as distinct from "free software".
so I believe in it for practical reasons more than ideological reasons. 17:07
sjn hmf. I need to go (stupid me to start a thought just before I have to leave :-P)
sjn will be back :) 17:08
lde TimToady: that's what i mean. slightly. 17:10
avar prods TimToady for that:) 17:30
aufrank: just compile it, that's what I do:) 17:31
don't you want to be cool like me?:) 17:32
[particle] TimToady: i think your S02 patch still leaves room for misinterpreting $::foo 17:44
...or is that no longer legal? 17:45
broquaint win 2 18:01
Rrr.
aufrank has audreyt_returned from her post-superman-returns crash? 18:09
obra I don't believe so 18:15
dmq timtoady you about? 18:50
@tell timtoady Added relative backreferences to perl5. Notation: \RN where N is a positive decimal integer. \R1 refers the most recent closed capture group relative to where the \R1 is located. 18:53
lambdabot Consider it noted.
dmq @tell timtoady thus $pair=qr/(.+)\R1/; creates an embeddable pattern that will correctly match a duplicate sequence. Without relative backreferences I dont think this is possible. 18:56
lambdabot Consider it noted.
dmq @tell timtoady sorry if this breaks something or contradicts something. hope not. have a nice day. :-)
lambdabot Consider it noted.
gaal all that's really needed for p6 to be ultimately obfuscable is for someone to prove that a minilang consiting in meta- and hyper-ops can do * 18:59
[particle] gaal: can you have a look at the bug report for Test::TAP::Model? 19:07
it's preventing some parrotcoders from generating smoke reports on linux 19:08
eviltwin_b is this the one that's biting me on ppc darwin/osx as well? (throws an odd elements in hash error, then undef in sub entry) 19:27
salty-horse the pugscode.org page is sent in iso-8859-1 instead of utf-8. some of the asian characters aren't displayed correctly 19:50
also, "examples" now points to a wrong location (there's no trunk/ in the new repo) 19:51
gaal rehi 20:18
[particle]: oops, hadn't seen this. looking 20:19
[particle] great, thanks
if you need, the folks with trouble are on #parrot and can provide more debugging aid
gaal they all pass for me :( 20:21
i suspect there's wrong prereq metadata 20:22
nothingmuch [particle]: which version of Test::Harness? 20:27
gaal [particle]: what's your Test::Harness version?
heh.
fwiw mine's 2^8 / 10 * 10 20:28
modulo parentheses.
[particle] me? i'm not havingTest::TAP::Model problems 20:30
nothingmuch oh
i have to go to a friend
2.56?
(gaal)
[particle] i'm getting pmichaud_ to join
gaal y
[particle] i have 2.56, and it's working 20:31
[particle] coke: you having Test:TAP:Model install problems? 20:32
nothingmuch i have 2.64 and it breaks =) 20:36
coke If that was the one that required me to install expat, yes.
nothingmuch_ feh
i have 2.64 and it breaks =)
irssi is being insane
gaal nothingmuch_: i'm over at #parrot and data confirms so far. 20:37
coke honestly, I don't recall. I had hoped that it would devolve into generic "improve make smoke" chat.
nothingmuch i can reproduce the breakage
nothingmuch i ahve to go to a friend's house 20:37
and then i will fix when I'm back
gaal moose moose
[particle] tell your friend we said moose 20:37
nothingmuch moose =) 20:38
gaal @tell nothingmuch #parrot confirms it's T:H:Straps; ++ for fixaround if you got one else I'll do it tomorrow evening 20:44
lambdabot Consider it noted. 20:45
[particle] gaal: has there been talk of improving the smokeserver?
it's hard to trace one test across smokes, for example
i think a moose could fix this in a jifty 20:46
dmq accelerates particle 20:48
[particle] hits a wall 20:49
dmq arent particles supposed to go through the wall? 20:52
PerlJam depends on the particle
(and how fast it's traveling) 20:53
[particle] and what the wall's made of... darned magnetic bottles 20:54
PerlJam Don't damage the Wall. 20:55
dmq Bring down this wall! 20:58
gaal Bring Wall the down (so he doesn't catch a cold) 21:03
[particle]: there has
one large improvement is that the TAP data is submitted serverside (used to be only the html was) 21:04
so applications like you suggest can actually be written.
[particle] yay
gaal see also Chimps on CPAN 21:05
I've been kinda out of things past month or two :(
but $project is ending and the next one is closer to home so hopefully, more hack time
nothingmuch feck 22:03
lambdabot nothingmuch: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
nothingmuch nothing in the changelog seems suspicious 22:04
@moosages
lambdabot gaal said 1h 19m 12s ago: #parrot confirms it's T:H:Straps; ++ for fixaround if you got one else I'll do it tomorrow evening
nothingmuch @tell gaal i'm off to sleep now, i'll do it first thing in the morning
lambdabot Consider it noted.
nothingmuch @tell gaal btw, i have more maint work so this fits in (cookiecutter, etc). in short, don't bother 22:05
lambdabot Consider it noted.
nothingmuch oh wait
Test::Harness::Results
2.63_01
feck drink arse
i guess this means the fix will be eas 22:06
y
GeJ m􏿽xF8􏿽xF8se all 22:09
nothingmuch møøøse 22:17
sleepy moose
ciao

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