svn switch --relocate svn.openfoundry.org/pugs svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
Set by lumi on 8 November 2006.
GeJ thank you for the clarification 00:02
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audreyt rehi 01:10
TimToady welcome home! 01:11
audreyt just went back to .tw. had a rocky trip with far-too-long transit waiting times (>20hr in total). so will bbl, perhaps quite a bit later. :)
TimToady crashing is now authorized for the audrey unit.
audreyt watched the movie "superman returns" on the airplane but is feeling totally the opposite...
audreyt crashes & 01:12
otoh, to think about it, superman also returned by crashing, quite loudly and violently and fierily... 01:13
&
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gnuvince audreyt: feeling totally the opposite? So you feel like "Subwoman goes away?" ;-) I had a question this afternoon, with the number of people having commit access to pugs, has there ever been vandalism? 01:16
stevan gnuvince: never 01:17
TimToady what would be the point? we have all kinds of backups in and out of svn. 01:18
stevan gnuvince: the occasional broken commit maybe, but nothing intentional
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gnuvince TimToady: I don't know what the point would be, I'm a good person, I'd never do that. 01:18
stevan ponders changing the Pugs startup ASCII art to advertise his favorite prOn site 01:19
gnuvince But I can certainly imagine an imature person thinking s/he's 1337 because he caused problems in the repository
stevan gnuvince: Pugs really doesnt attract that kind of crowd i think
gnuvince stevan: I guess not. Everyone here seems very friendly and open and helpful. 01:20
SamB maybe leaving silly messages in the comments somewhere
gnuvince So basically, the opposite of comp.lang.lisp ;-)
stevan and much more civilized than #perl ;)
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gnuvince stevan: heh :) 01:24
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Alias_ audreyt: ping? 07:17
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masak wait a minute, min= and max=? how do these work? 08:25
?eval my @a = (1,3,4); @a.min = 7; say @a 08:26
08:26 evalbot_r14732 is now known as evalbot_r14742
evalbot_r14742 Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1 08:26
masak not impl yet, meguesses
besides, what happens if several elements are minimal?
is first-match or all of them assigned to? 08:27
what happens if no element is minimal?
is there a warning, a run-time error, or nothing?
Alias_ .min = ? 08:29
How can that possibly work
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dduncan ?eval my @a = (1,3,4); my $item = @a.min; say $item; 08:47
evalbot_r14742 OUTPUT[1␤] Bool::True
dduncan afaik, the min and max operators retrive whatever item in the list would be first or last if the list was sorted 08:49
you were trying the same as this:
?eval 1 = 7;
evalbot_r14742 Error: Can't modify constant item: VInt 1
dduncan masak, got that? 08:50
Alias_ That wouldn't make sense though
I would have thought you got a copy/constant of the minimum value
dduncan yes, so would I
but you saw what masak attempted? 08:51
Alias_ yeah
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masak dduncan: got it perfectly 08:57
dduncan okay
masak but did you see the latest addition to the synopses?
it specs min= and max=
hence the question
dduncan yes
the spec is meant to be used like this:
masak how _is_ it used
if not like I did?
dduncan nope 08:58
like: %item min= @ary;
I mean ...
like: $item min= @ary;
masak uh
dduncan just a minute ...
masak wraps his brain around the example 08:59
dduncan actually, I'm not sure it makes sense ...
masak it feels quite unperlish
dduncan its meant to be analagous to $foo += $bar
masak I thought my usage was analogous
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dduncan but I'm not sure it actually makes sense 08:59
masak "set the minimum equal to" 09:00
masak is presently highly unamused about this new feature
dduncan since you brought this up, I suggest you reply to p6l and state your confusion with that synopsis change ... and don't mention I talked to you about it
masak ...and don't mention you talked to me about it
ok 09:01
masak does that
dduncan I just said that since I don't want the list to be confused by our discussion
masak right
I see
I'll just explain my confusion from my POV
dduncan the problem is that <foo>= format is I think only normal for binary operators 09:02
but min, max is a unary operator
masak you're right
so the analogy is at least not obvious
dduncan maybe mention that in the email
yes
lumi Is it supposed to be like $a min= 5 # $a = the smaller of $a or 5 ?
dduncan I'm glad that he added min and max but they don't make sense outside of "min @foo" or @foo.min 09:03
masak lumi: might well be 09:04
dduncan oh, I think I understand ...
masak your guess is as good as mine
lumi That's by analogy with +=
And I think that's what the spec patch seems to say?
dduncan $foo = $foo min $bar;
vs $foo min= $bar;
masak glad I haven't sent the email yet :)
lumi: this makes much more sense
dduncan and that would actually be useful, too 09:05
masak ?my $a = 10; $a min= 7; $a
lambdabot Maybe you meant: . bf ft id map msg pl v wn
masak ?eval my $a = 10; $a min= 7; $a
evalbot_r14742 Error: ␤Unexpected "min"␤expecting operator
dduncan and if min is turned into a reduce operator, it would do what's normal with a list
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masak dduncan: exactly 09:05
dduncan eg, $item = [min] (1,4,5)
masak well, my issues with the op just vanished
dduncan so, no email needed I guess
masak nope
world order restored. proceeding as planned. 09:06
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cognominal what is the standard way to do shell globs in Perl6? 10:32
Alias_ sane I hope :) 10:33
cognominal using Text::Glob is way too long in oneliners
cognominal tries to get in the habit in using pugs for his oneliners 10:34
that's glob, just happens no te be defined in pugs 10:37
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fglock MP6 now creates usable Perl5 code - still debugging... 11:28
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nothingmuch moosenage 11:46
fglock nothingmuch: do you know how to bring svnbot6 back? 11:53
nothingmuch no, sorry =(
audreyt should be up in a day or two ;-) 11:54
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Alias_ Oh, she did a big timezone switch? 12:01
fglock Alias_: the tz difference is 10 or 11h 12:02
Alias_ yep 12:03
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audreyt still responds to summonings, but her brain is still completely not-in-working-condition 12:09
*thud* & 12:10
H0LE Does anybody know when perl6 will be released? 12:13
xinming H0LE: by christmas. ;-) 12:15
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H0LE really?That will be great! 12:16
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svnbot6 r14748 | fglock++ | MP6 - added Match class 12:18
r14748 | fglock++ | - "hello, World" works
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svnbot6 r14749 | fglock++ | MP6 - added build-perl5.sh - compiles MP6 to Perl5 12:36
12:38 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 12:41 mako132 joined 12:43 sweinig|bbl is now known as sweinig 13:13 mdiep_ joined 13:15 pmurias joined
pmurias fglock: does that mean that MP6 is self hosting? 13:15
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fglock pmurias: it will be - but I'm still debugging it 13:21
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pmurias greate 13:22
great 13:23
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svnbot6 r14750 | fglock++ | MP5 - added lib5/ - self-hosted MP6 libs compiled to Perl5 (with errors) 13:45
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fglock most errors are due to not properly escaping "\n" 13:47
more after lunch & 13:48
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smash_ good afternoon 13:58
pmurias good afternoon
smash_: anything you want to chat about? :) 14:00
or just lurking about ? 14:04
nothingmuch sup afternoon yo homies 14:20
smash_ pmurias: just lurking around for now 14:22
kolibrie hmm, all the feather people are disappearing 14:38
and, can't seem to get an ssh connection there 14:39
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xinming kolibrie: maybe a power failure? 15:17
15:18 PerlJam joined
xinming or, some one who has tried 'init 0' with root privilege, and found oops... ;-) 15:19
maybe he just wish to shutdown his own machine... :-P
PerlJam Is there something wrong with feather today? I can't reach it
xinming PerlJam: Me too.
Maybe power failure, maybe the reason I told just now. 15:20
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kolibrie PerlJam: all the people chatting via feather disconnected about an hour ago 15:27
PerlJam I think the pugs repository is cursed :-) 15:30
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xinming Hopes not. 15:37
fglock almost make mp6 selfhosting
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ingy hola 16:22
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pmurias ingy: hi 16:42
ingy hi pmurias 16:44
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TimToady feather! 16:52
16:53 audreyt joined, Juerd joined
wolverian ohh 16:53
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wolverian pets feather 16:59
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wolverian ouch, feather got a d-line to efnet 17:04
TimToady d-line as in "dialup"? 17:09
Alias_ As in some type of ban I think 17:14
wolverian sorry, it's a server-specific ban. it was only prison.net that banned feather.
(and it's a temporary ban.)
(albeit it's 14400 minutes..) 17:15
xinming why will it ban feather over 10 day? 17:16
TimToady maybe they like python?
wolverian because of "clones", i.e. too many people connected from the same host (feather) at the same time. 17:17
gnuvince People still go on efnet?
PerlJam gnuvince: yes. 17:26
that's a lame ban
cognominal does unicode whitespace include \n and \r? 17:35
?eval say "\n" ~~ m/\s/ 17:38
gnuvince ?eval my ($a, undef, $b) = 1..3; "$a $b" 17:44
No evalbot?
wolverian ENOEVALBOT
gnuvince Hmmm
eviltwin_b not my fault this time :)
gnuvince Does anyone know if the above should be supported? run.pugscode.org reports an error
TimToady doesn't matter whether unicode considers \n to be whitespace, since \s is Perl whitespace, not Unicode whitespace :) 17:46
eviltwin_b which? IIRC the undef syntax is a perl5-ism 17:47
TimToady assignment to undef is not supported. I believe assignment to * is, though 17:48
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eviltwin_b yeh, that's the new one IIRC. was just poking at synopses to trey to recall what it was 17:49
gnuvince TimToady: doesn't work either....
TimToady though I think it's unimpl
gnuvince Ah
gnuvince checks the tests
gaal TimToady: wouldn't you need a sigil trace there? my ($x, $, $y)
because otherwise there's a potential multi dispatch ambiguity 17:50
TimToady that should also work
gaal (no reason i can see not to also allow *, at the users's discretion)
gnuvince if * is whatever or infinity, I imagine my ($a, *) = 1..3; would work, but not my ($a, *, $b)
TimToady * is not infinity, despite what the error message indicates 17:51
"whateverness" is not yet properly implemented either, I think.
Alias_ Just "mostly" infinite? :)
eviltwin_b in that context I'd expect it to matcha single item which could be anything
gnuvince Well so far, I can't find what to put between $a and $b. Have failed: ($a, undef, $b), ($a, *, $b), ($a, $, $b) 17:52
eviltwin_b it's much closer to "whatever" than "infinity" in intent
it's nmot implemented yet, so presumably you need a dummy var for now
PerlJam gnuvince: now's the time to patch pugs :-)
gnuvince PerlJam: I'll need to skim the synopses tonight to see if the syntax is mentionned. 17:53
TimToady yeah, you could probably sneak in a lot of stuff while audreyt is in thudstate.
gnuvince heheh
PerlJam gnuvince: ($a,undef,$b) is invalid I think, but the other two should be fine.
gnuvince would need to brush up on his haskell 17:54
PerlJam gnuvince: implement it even if it's not in a synopsis. Maybe that'll cause someone to document it :)
TimToady people who succeed in brushing up on haskell do so by brushing up lazily.
gnuvince meh, no haskell-mode at $work :( 17:55
PerlJam TimToady: indeed! Early on in pugs development, I implemented looping constructs in pugs while knowing very little haskell.
(lazy learning)++ 17:57
avar anyone have the correct emacs settings for editing p5/p6 code in the pugs repos without screwing up the indenting?
gnuvince avar: well I got something that seems reasonable 17:59
eviltwin_b cperl-mode.el in the pugs distribution?
eviltwin_b thought it was more than just settings
gnuvince avar: I can PRIVMSG you 18:00
avar gnuvince: yes please:)
pasteling "gnuvince" at 206.248.136.28 pasted "My Emacs configuration for cperl-mode" (10 lines, 381B) at sial.org/pbot/21116 18:03
avar yay, thanks 18:04
gnuvince No problem :) 18:06
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avar <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><propfind xmlns="DAV:"><prop><checked-in xmlns="DAV:"/></prop></propfind>CHECKOUT /svn/!svn/ver/13804/trunk/t/magicals/file_line.t HTTP/1.1 18:27
Host: svn.pugscode.org
re:
CHECKOUT to /svn/!svn/ver/13804/trunk/t/magicals/file_line.t not supported.<P>
Invalid method in request CHECKOUT /svn/!svn/ver/13804/trunk/t/magicals/file_line.t HTTP/1.1
seems my svn is broken;/
18:45 perlbot joined
GeJ Good m􏿽xF8􏿽xF8se people 18:46
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avar is the svn commitbot not working? 19:06
TimToady doesn't seem to be
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gnuvince die(<svnbot evalbot>) and cry(); 19:11
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avar svn switch --relocate svn.openfoundry.org/pugs svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com | commitbot down 19:19
avar TimToady: Do you want &?BLOCK.label to work like &?ROUTINE.name ? 19:34
$ pugs -e 'sub block { &?ROUTINE.name } say block'
&Main::block
"C<&?BLOCK.label> contains the label of the current block, if any." 19:35
-S06
<anon> 19:37
eep 19:38
$ pugs -e 'my $sub = -> { &?BLOCK.name }; say $sub()'
<anon>
what's a label in Perl 6? 19:43
eviltwin_b same as in perl5? LABEL: { block }
20:03 cjeris joined
avar proposes C<do_not_want> :) 20:08
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avar do the commit messages go to some mailing list? 21:23
TimToady avar: not that I know of 21:33
21:36 justatheory_ joined
avar TimToady: How do you see p6doc(1) working when done? I was thinking of adding -f support by making it eat Functions.pod 21:39
The Perl 6 model might need more complexities than Perl 5
e.g. "Get me all Array stuff" 21:40
something more like ri(1) maybe?
TimToady I want: "Here's a chunk of code; tell me about it."
avar example?
TimToady $a min= $b 21:41
"this assigns $b to $a if and only if $b is less than $a--see foo.bar.baz" 21:42
avar Is that really p6doc(1) domain? sounds more like some deparse module 21:43
B::English?:)
TimToady anyway, I think we want to aim for something more like a google search, where the keywords are naturally generated from the documentation, and not just the particular keywords the writer of perldoc happened to think of.
you want to be able to search for "min=" 21:44
or "[*]"
or "-S" 21:45
or "^..^"
I think we could a lot better with questions of the form "What the heck does X mean?" 21:46
without forcing people to supersearch PerlMonks
PerlJam p6doc shouldn't require switches like -f or -q 21:47
avar hrm, more metadata support in the POD syntax would make that easier
TimToady p6explain '[min=]'
21:48 justatheory joined
TimToady even if an explainer can't decipher the whole thing, it can break it into bits and link to various bits of documentation 21:48
and if it can recognize the whole thing, it should proceed to explain it right then and there 21:49
[particle] indexing would be a start
PerlJam p6explain will be uebersmart :) 21:51
TimToady needs a shorter name though 21:53
p6ex maybe 21:54
"Everything you always wanted to know about 6ex but were afraied to ask..."
*afraid
avar hihi
TimToady sx 21:55
six
sax and sox are taken... 21:56
PerlJam splain
6plain
p6e
[particle] 6fancy
TimToady kinda like 6plain
[particle] me too
lucy, lemme 6plain! 21:57
PerlJam it's your bikeshed, I'm just suggesting colors ;)
TimToady plex 21:58
PerlJam pex (for damian ;-)
TimToady "Please explain"
make it so that plex will try to explain anything, but it just happens to specialize in Perl 6. :) 21:59
avar forsees having to reach for the numrow to use perl6-anything
TimToady yeah, I was in 6 avoidance mode when I suggested plex 22:00
also short for Perl lexer
avar a pexer:) 22:01
obra seen audreyt 22:02
PerlJam plex also has the nice benefit that it shares 3/4 of its letters with perl
TimToady and ends the same as "index" 22:07
[particle] expl has similar characteristics 22:08
PerlJam sans the index-ending
TimToady expl deleted
[particle] no, it begins like explain
TimToady but how do you pronounce it? 22:09
avar eksple
PerlJam expl leaves a expectant sound at the end
s/a /an / 22:10
TimToady too much like expr, maybe
[particle] i always thought of perl as a left-handed language
expr =~ y/r/l/
PerlJam [particle]: are you saying perl is like thalidomide? 22:11
TimToady plex for when you're perplexed by something complex
[particle] perl is complex?
TimToady in spots
[particle] whoa, you think if that were true, the designer would have told us to be careful....
22:13 Limbic_Region joined
PerlJam but what is perl's charge and spin? 22:13
TimToady there's no charge for Perl 22:14
we have lots of spin though
[particle] 3/2
TimToady maybe it's a graviton
it sucks everything else in like a black hole...
[particle] the internals of perl5 are like a black hole... 22:15
PerlJam What's its chirality?
TimToady definitely biased towards spearmint over carraway 22:16
avar [particle]: you think p6 will be different?
PerlJam avar: it had better be different!
[particle] avar: i'm inside the event horizon on that one
or perhaps i'm beyond it 22:17
where are you?
avar huh?
PerlJam I haven't been paying attention to p5p in a long while, but is there any overlap in p5 developers and p6 developers?
TimToady he means "when are you?"
event horizons do that to you
a little--each side has its spies on the other side... 22:18
avar still has no idea what the question is;/
chip speak into my wristwatch 22:20
TimToady open channel D
PerlJam avar: you have to squint, cock your head to one side and look sideways through space-time
TimToady avar: that's the basic problem in a nutshell--you have to design a computer language without knowing either the answers or the questions. 22:21
[particle] avar: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_horizon 22:22
TimToady which is what plex will point you to if it has now idea how to explain something 22:23
s/now/no/
[particle] :)
PerlJam What was the name of that computer in HHGTTG?
the one that gave 42 as the answer
22:24 sweinig|away is now known as sweinig
[particle] Deep Thought 22:24
PerlJam oh, of course 22:25
(I was thinking that but also thinking that I must be conflating it with some IBM computer ;-)
TimToady I have an IBM computer right now, but I've never seen it conflate. 22:29
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TimToady though I understand some of them have been known to conflagrate. 22:30
PerlJam some even confabulate 22:31
some police districts use them to confiscate 22:32
But mostly computers just consternate 22:33
(at one per minute it's going to take a while to get through all of the con.*ate words :-) 22:34
oh and for last minute's word ... 22:35
but what do you expect from a big conglomerate
TimToady you need to be more considerate
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TimToady looks like the whole confeatherate army came and went... 22:38
PerlJam computers contaminate when we contemplate to consecrate
:-)
not to mention that messing with perl5 internals gives cause to contra-indicate 22:40
But I don't mean to constipate 22:41
</tarry> 22:42
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justatheory Will I be able to overload &&, ||, !, and, or, and not in Perl 6? 23:49
[particle] yes 23:50
multi prefix:<!> { ... } 23:51
justatheory Rockin! 23:53
Can't do it in Perl 5 or Ruby, so I was hoping…
[particle] you can do it already with pugs :) 23:54
Alias_ You can get rid of ALL the operators and start from scratch!
[particle] Alias_: how's pita coming? 23:57
Alias_ uh, again?
oh right, stupid network
[particle]> how's PITA coming along? chip asked about smoking parrot today
Alias_> The problem of integration into CPAN has been solved
<Alias_> The POE rewrite of the image manager has a new volunteer on it
<Alias_> And we have some initial test images released 23:58
<Alias_> So pretty close to having the core working now
<Alias_> From there it's all downhill
:)
[particle] fab! where are announcements made? 23:59

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