svn switch --relocate svn.openfoundry.org/pugs svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
Set by avar on 16 November 2006.
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audreyt fixed 00:12
lambdabot audreyt: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
audreyt (utf8)
TimToady thx
you okay?
audreyt loumz: while you are at it, can you also fix the slides to point to the later-day .pdf slides instead of .xul?
well, maintaining sanity, but online time is luxury 00:13
need to run in 18min
loumz audreyt: where can I find these PDF slides?
audreyt hopefully it'll all be settled next week and I can post more update
loumz: grep thru pugs.blogs.com
use the amazon slides for pugs
gnuvince audreyt: without wanting to nose in your personal life, something wrong?
audreyt conisli for -OFun
loumz audreyt: OK, I'll try to do that
audreyt loumz: thanks!
gnuvince: yeah. :) details later. 00:14
gnuvince Okay. Take care of yourself then :)
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audreyt I try :) 00:14
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audreyt TimToady: I just restarted svnsync to openfoundry 00:16
will take another coulpe hours
will worry about the stale svn.perl.org mirror later
TimToady np
Limbic_Region TimToady - will look at source to see if I can find the request for STDIN 00:17
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TimToady workaround on Unix is just to type ^D 00:17
Limbic_Region Windows should be ^Z
but that doesn't work
and I can't see anything that would tell me where it is hanging - going to turn on debug 00:18
infinite loops looks like to me
oh wait, it finally stopped spitting out debugging stuff 00:19
TimToady - you are right, ctrl-z does get it to finish, but it still takes several seconds before bombing 00:20
TimToady in meeting, so distracted...
Limbic_Region sorry, will try to finish debugging on my own 00:21
heh, there is a comment right in the test case - the following hangs pugs 00:22
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loumz hmm, most of the slides links on pugscode.org seem to be 404, the only one that works is "Deploying to Perl6" 00:27
maybe I'll comment them out for now 00:28
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loumz is "português" the right translation for "Portuguese" (the language)? 00:41
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svnbot6 r14769 | loumz++ | * docs/feather/pugscode.org/index.html : commented out the XUL slides (404), 01:16
r14769 | loumz++ | changed "Intro to Pugs" to point to the Amazon/DLS06 Pugs slides, added
r14769 | loumz++ | links to the CONISLI -Ofun slides.
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cmarcelo loumz: yes, it's "Português".. 01:19
loumz cmarcelo: thanks, now I should change the link to "-Ofun (Português)" :) 01:20
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cmarcelo loumz: feather.perl6.nl/~audreyt/osdc/ => has the xul slides 01:23
lambdabot Title: Index of /~audreyt/osdc
loumz cmarcelo: OK, do you also know where the translations (like perlcabal.org/~autrijus/tokyo/pugs.xul) are? 01:25
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cmarcelo loumz: s/autrijus/audreyt/ and you'll find ;-) 01:26
loumz cmarcelo: OK, thanks!
cmarcelo :) 01:27
svnbot6 r14770 | loumz++ | * docs/feather/pugscode.org/index.html: XUL slides found, thanks cmarcelo! 01:34
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svnbot6 r14771 | cmarcelo++ | * A few s/svn.openfoundry/svn.pugscode/ 02:07
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svnbot6 r14772 | audreyt++ | * Add back pugs.small.png icon 03:34
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Pranavaswaroop G'afternoon 10:17
SCalimlim past midnight here ;-P 10:24
svnbot6 r14773 | fglock++ | MP6 - added mp6-perl5-boot.pl - bootstrapped compiler script
Pranavaswaroop oh me in India GMT + 5h 30min 10:26
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svnbot6 r14774 | fglock++ | MP6 - optimized memory usage - now it takes 96s to compile from v6.pm 11:55
Pranavaswaroop I have a query related to documentation can somebody help me 12:05
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fglock Pranavaswaroop: just ask 12:06
Pranavaswaroop ok 12:11
I had been here yesterday too
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svnbot6 r14775 | fglock++ | MP6 - fixed 'for' 12:12
Pranavaswaroop I had asked TimToady and Limbic_Region about this but yesterday due to unavoidable circumstances I wasn't able to get through with the links
I just want to start with the documentation stuff and get involved with the perl documentation part 12:13
I also got an innvitation to the pugs 12:14
Now I need a job to get along
and contribute 12:15
audreyt a good way to start is reading through docs/Perl6/* 12:16
especially Overview/
and check it against Synopsis at spec.pugscode.org
addd missing overviews
fix broken overviews
if you see omissions etc, check here, and fill it in
general reformatting will also help 12:17
Pranavaswaroop ok 12:19
fglock audreyt: hi! 12:21
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andara svn switch --relocate seems not to work for svn 1.2.3. And I cant upgrade to 1.4. Is a new checkout my only option? 12:32
xinming fglock: Is MP6 self-hosting for now?
fglock xinming: it can already compile about 1/3 of itself 12:33
I'm now debugging comments
xinming fglock: I saw some files are already compiled. :-P
fglock++
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fglock the bootstrap sequence is MP6 source -> through v6.pm -> MP6-in-perl5 12:36
and then MP6 source -> through MP6-in-perl5 -> MP6-in-perl5
the second part is almost done :)
xinming hmm, if i understand correctly, Doest that mean, after mp6 is self-hosting, then, we can use the 'result' mp6 to bootstrap perl 6? 12:37
How about parrot? 12:38
svnbot6 r14776 | fglock++ | MP6 - fixed 'for' again
xinming hmm, Ok, I'll ask you after you've done the job. :-)
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fglock xinming: no, Miniperl6 is only a small language 12:39
which Perl6 can execute natively
and it is easy to port to several backends
so we can use it as a first step to write full-perl6 - but it will require several bootstraps to get there 12:40
xinming will there be a boost on speed?
bootstrap again again and again. >_< 12:41
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fglock miniperl6 will be a bit faster than full-perl6, but that's just because it doesn't have many features 12:45
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fglock xinming: after MP6 bootstraps, we mean to write reusable MP6 code for Haskell, Perl5, Parrot, and Javascript backends 12:49
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xinming hmm, For parrot, Do we have to use parrot PIR to write a AST runner for MP6? 12:54
and then, compile the ast to parrot native asm.
fglock xinming: you only need to fill-in PIR snippets in the Emitter - all AST transformations are done at MP6 level 12:56
xinming Ok, thanks... :-) 12:57
fglock you also need to write a small runtime lib, and a 'compile' script
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Pranavaswaroop I got an error message saying 13:04
sorry 13:05
fglock comments fixed - recompiling 13:06
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smokemachine join pugs 13:07
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Limbic_Region good morning smokemachine 13:13
Pranavaswaroop oh hi Limbic_Region 13:14
I was waiting
Limbic_Region that sounds ominous
fglock MiniPerl6::Perl5::Emitter and MiniPerl6::Emitter::Token compile ok 13:15
Pranavaswaroop oh k may be:)
svnbot6 r14777 | yiyihu++ | r14817@HomePc: xinming | 2006-11-06 01:06:14 +0800 13:17
r14777 | yiyihu++ | Make local branch for pugs.
r14777 | yiyihu++ | r14996@HomePc: xinming | 2006-11-17 21:03:30 +0800
r14777 | yiyihu++ | Fixed url for Pugs Example
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xinming oops... 13:20
I think I screw up the mirror...
hopes not
svnbot6 r14778 | fglock++ | MP6 - Token and Perl5 emitters compile cleanly 13:23
fglock echo 'class Main { say "hello, World" }' | perl -Ilib5 mp6-perl5-boot.pl | perl -Ilib5 13:26
xinming: would you try this:
from v6/v6-MiniPerl6/ 13:27
xinming Ok 13:28
works fine
fglock cool
xinming hello, World
fglock audreyt: ping 13:35
svnbot6 r14779 | fglock++ | * This is MiniPerl6 0.001
r14779 | fglock++ | v6/v6-MiniPerl6$ echo 'class Main { say "hello, World" }' | perl -Ilib5 mp6-perl5-boot.pl | perl -Ilib5
xinming fglock: I think audreyt isn't here. She might be busy with something 13:36
fglock @tell audreyt see r14779 13:37
lambdabot Consider it noted.
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masak fglock++ # v0.001 14:36
integral SamB: I can't stand where clauses for precisely this reason. I like lots of small modules instead :-)
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svnbot6 r14780 | fglock++ | MP6 - reorganize docs 15:11
r14780 | fglock++ | - remove lib5-orig/
r14780 | fglock++ | - move bootstrap script to util/
r14780 | fglock++ | - rename v6.pm version to mp6-perl5-v6.pl;
r14780 | fglock++ | bootstrapped version is mp6-perl5-boot.pl
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svnbot6 r14781 | fglock++ | MP6 - implemented nested Array binding [$a, [$b, $c]] := [1, [2, 3]] 17:21
r14781 | fglock++ | - implemented .isa()
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svnbot6 r14782 | fglock++ | MP6 - added POD to the source files 17:48
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ludan ola 17:48
fglock ludan: ola 17:49
xinming what does ola mean please? >_< 17:50
fglock hi
xinming ola..
fglock "olá" in portuguese 17:51
xinming thanks
fglock "ola" is spanish
[particle] hola is spanish 17:52
fglock right :)
TimToady if you're going to add minimal pod support it would be better for it to be P6 support rather than P5. We're trying to kill =cut
xinming just knows hello is English..
TimToady =begin/=end would be better 17:53
fglock TimToady: fixing
svnbot6 r14783 | fglock++ | MP6 - use =begin/=end for pod blocks - TimToady++ 18:00
TimToady thanx 18:02
fglock you are welcome :)
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svnbot6 r14784 | fglock++ | MP6 - initial (wrong) implementation of Hash binding 19:15
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svnbot6 r14785 | fglock++ | MP6 - reorganize docs 19:24
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svnbot6 r14786 | fglock++ | MP6 - added TODO 19:39
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stevan not sure if this has been posted already, but I think it is relevant - lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1840 19:50
lambdabot Title: De-Scheming MIT? | Lambda the Ultimate
fglock stevan: MP6 is usable now 19:52
stevan fglock: cool 19:53
I have been dipping my toes in the Haskell pool lately actually
and a little scheme too
GnuVince Scheme is cool 19:55
fglock one sec, I'll commit the "hello, World" example 19:56
stevan (+ 1 ( + 1 scheme))
svnbot6 r14787 | fglock++ | MP6 - hello.sh - "hello, World" example 20:00
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fglock the students in the robotics lab learn a language I implemented in Perl :) 20:01
stevan: see v6/v6-MiniPerl6, try 'sh hello.sh' 20:02
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nothingmuch stevan: please... (+ 1 1 scheme) 20:19
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GnuVince Why (+ 1 1 scheme)? 20:21
[particle] ETOOMANYONES 20:22
TimToady oneupmanship 20:23
nothingmuch GnuVince: i'm not serious =)
GnuVince nothingmuch: I mean, use (1+ scheme) 20:24
nothingmuch GnuVince: scheme deserve more karma than that ;-)
seriously, ask stevan =)
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stevan ponders a version of ++ using chuch numerals :P 20:32
TimToady that would be...ponderous 20:33
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[particle] ROFM 20:34
*moaning :P
stevan wow man,.. these Parrot guys are sick :P
((? n. ? f. ? x. f (n f x)) ? f. ? x. x)) 20:36
thats a successor function being applied to the zero church numeral
as close as I can get on short notice
hmm... might be too many parens in there,.. but since we are giving props to scheme ;) 20:37
Limbic_Region stevan - if Lisp has taught us anything, it is that there is never enough parens 20:38
[particle] considers designing a lisp keyboard with the 'f' and 'j' chars replaced by parens 20:39
GnuVince [particle]: hehehe 20:44
writing 'defun' would be cubersome.
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[particle] yeah, it would take all defun out of it 20:49
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smash_ good evening 21:12
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stevan TimToady: re: state conflicts in roles (I just read the latest design notes) 21:49
the approach we settled on in Moose was that attributes conflict by name, with no chance to resolve 21:50
its a little extreme, but things got way too messy when we tried to detect conflicts on a more granular level (between accessors, etc)
we pondered namespacing the role imported attr's slots 21:51
[particle] we're trending towards role-based composition in parrot
in fact, i suggested the use of 'metaroles' instead of metaclasses
stevan [particle]: its a very clean way to put things together on the lower levels
[particle]: there is a paper about that, but the traits folks 21:52
it reduces the need to inherit metaclasses, which can get really really messy
[particle] since we'll be doing roles anyway, why bother with metaclasses, i figure 21:53
there's no reason for them
stevan TimToady: the namespaceing of attribute slots from roles was ruled out as well, again, the whole auto-generated accessor conflicts
[particle] stevan: i'd probably recommend that approach for parrot, as well
if HLLs want to do mangling, namespacing, etc they're on their own 21:54
stevan [particle]: the only issue (and they talk about this in the paper) is that you have a more complex bootstrap
because you end up needing a primative role and primative class
so the nice tied-knot of the metamodel gets muddied slightly 21:55
[particle] hrmm. do you have a reference to the paper? can i just seach 'metarole' or do they just call them roles?
stevan www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/cgi-bin/scgbi...omposition 21:56
lambdabot Title: SCG Bibliography, tinyurl.com/y87qs2
[particle] fab, thx
stevan they dont deal with state though 21:58
when i emailed them about a year ago on it, their response was "good luck, let us know how it works out" 21:59
[particle] i'd respond, "thank you for the prototype, we'll build the release version" :) 22:00
stevan :)
well they must be pondering it now, it looks like they emailed TimToady on it :) 22:01
its a thorny problem though
especially when you throw in the auto-generated accessors
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gnuvince jamessan! 22:40
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