»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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jnthn Good morning, #perl6 00:22
phenny jnthn: 23 Sep 17:26Z <[Coke]> ask jnthn how one is supposed to invoke a named sub from QAST. QAST::Op.new( :op<call>, :name<invoke> ); complains that it cannot find a sub called "invoke" (There's one at program top level, and one in the actions class, since I don't know where it's looking)
jnthn phenny: ask [Coke] are you installing the sub anywhere? Like, to install it so it can be found lexically, then do a QAST::Op bind. Subs require explicit installation these days. 00:23
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when [Coke] is around.
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jnthn phenny: ask [Coke] what kind of docs would be most useful with regard to QAST etc? I plan to do some more work in that area. 00:30
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when [Coke] is around.
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diakopte1 jnthn! 00:40
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sorear JNTHN! 00:40
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sorear jnthn: how do you handle compile time installation? p6 sub foo { }; BEGIN foo 00:42
[Coke] jnthn: a sample mini language would probably be helpful. docs on ::Op would be helpful. "here are the ops you can use and the parameters they take"
phenny [Coke]: 00:23Z <jnthn> ask [Coke] are you installing the sub anywhere? Like, to install it so it can be found lexically, then do a QAST::Op bind. Subs require explicit installation these days.
[Coke]: 00:30Z <jnthn> ask [Coke] what kind of docs would be most useful with regard to QAST etc? I plan to do some more work in that area.
[Coke] jnthn: how does one install a sub??
jnthn: also, welcome back.
sorear it sounds to me like jnthn is saying to generate code as if 'my &foo := anon sub foo { ... }' 00:43
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jnthn sorear: iirc, it goes into the static lexpad (which is one of those objects in the SC, so it's visible between compile time and runtime) 00:48
[Coke]: QAST::Op.new( :op('bind'), QAST::Var.new( :name('foo'), :scope('lexical'), :decl('var') ), $the_qast_blcok ) # is now NQP does it 00:49
*how
[Coke]: Example language...OK, makes sense. :) And yes, the ops need more docs too
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[Coke] ...b ut I don't want a lexical that's visible to the rest of the code. 00:51
jnthn [Coke]: What is the scope of subs in the language you're implementing? 00:53
[Coke] this isn't a sub that's visible to the language.
it's a special dispatcher sub. 00:54
jnthn Oh, it's part of the standard library?
[Coke] no.
it's just a helper sub.
jnthn Or some internals-y thing?
[Coke] yes.
which, I suppose, I could write as QAST all the way down, but that's a PITA compared to writing nqp.
jnthn Oh, you worte it in NQP? 00:55
OK, then I misunderstood the question :)
[Coke] back when this all worked in nqp-rx, yes.
jnthn OK, moment...breakfast here :)
[Coke] I have an nqp sub. I wish to invoke this sub from the compiled QAST code.
sorear But you do NOT want the sub to be visible in any lexical scope. ? 00:57
This must be doable, Rakudo's constant folder is doing something sort of similar
diakopter mmm breakfast 00:58
[Coke] yah. it's not mandatory for the first pass, but this isn't a sub users need to see (though I could stick it into an "internal" namespace) 00:59
sorear How were you doing this with NQP-rx/PAST?
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[Coke] oh. it would be super awesome keen if you could write code in nqp and have something "decompile" it to QAST. ;) 01:00
sorear: github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp, master branch
sorear what file / method name?
[Coke] the sub invocation is here:
github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/blob/...ons.pm#L73 01:01
that sub is putting together an invocation of "invoke" and putting it into the ast.
sorear where is the definition of sub invoke? 01:02
[Coke] github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/blob/...nit.pm#L82
sorear I am not sure that is doing what you think it is doing 01:03
sorear will wait for jnthn
[Coke] I am sure that partcl-nqp passes 99% of its tests.
but aside from that, no, quite possible it's not doing it in the way I think it is.
on master, if I put a pir::say() in invoke, it's definitely going through that pointy block. 01:07
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[Coke] (on each invocation of some partcl command) 01:07
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sorear o/ anuby, au 01:33
[Coke] hopes he can finish up $DAYJOB soon today. sheesh 01:37
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fome my @a = 1, [2, 3], [[4, 5], 6]; hi perl6 ! how can I flatten @a to a 6 elems arrays? 02:21
jnthn [Coke]: The compiler tools this days try much harder to keep the compiling environment and the running program distinct. 02:23
[Coke]: So things won't "accidentally leak through and just work", which I expect is what you'd maybe relied on
[Coke]: The way to make those things work these days is through the serialization context / world stuff 02:24
You can refer to any (6model) object from your program just by wrapping it in a QAST::WVal
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jnthn The easiest way for you is to move your sub into some Internals class, make it a method, and then emit a 02:25
QAST::Op.new( :op('callmethod'), :name('foo'), QAST::WVal.new( :value(Internals) ) )
Which will make a static reference to that Internals class in the generated coe. 02:26
*code
smartviking I'm very new to perl in general and I have a question, how do I use variables inside forwads slashes ("//")? I've ended up with this line: my @htmlresult = qx/markdown file.md/; to get the result from the markdown program on the file.md file, but I'd rather have the filename be a string variable instead of hardcoding it. 02:28
sorear smartviking: qqx
two qs is like two quotes, get it? 02:29
'$foo' versus "foo"
smartviking sorear: so its: my @htmlresult = qqx/markdown $file/; ?
sorear n: my @a = 1, [2, 3], [[4, 5], 6]; sub f($x) { $x ~~ Iterable ?? $x.list.map(&f) !! $x }; for f(@a) { say $_ } # fome
p6eval niecza v21-32-g3b04575: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Expecting a term, but found either infix ?? or redundant prefix ?␤ (to suppress this message, please use space between ? ?) at /tmp/mpdFJ7g4kG line 1:␤------> 4, 5], 6]; sub f($x) { $x ~~ Iterable ??⏏ $x.list…
sorear n: my @a = 1, [2, 3], [[4, 5], 6]; sub f($x) { $x ~~ Positional ?? $x.list.map(&f) !! $x }; for f(@a) { say $_ } # fome 02:30
p6eval niecza v21-32-g3b04575: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤»
sorear smartviking: yes
smartviking sorear: thank you
fome sorear: thanks!
sorear smartviking: note that this is a bit different from perl 5
in perl 5, qx always interpolates (this is the technical term) variables, unless the chosen delimiter is ' 02:31
in perl 6, your choice of delimiter has no effect, but you can choose either qx or qqx
smartviking sorear: Tbh I don't understand what qx and qqx are, just that they are followed by forward slashes 02:32
sorear smartviking: quote and execute
runs an external program
it does not have to be forward slashes
qx[ foo ], qx(fooo), qx"foo", qx«foo», work 02:33
smartviking sorear: Aha. Are they functions?
MikeFair_ smartviking: in other words my @htmlresult = qqx[markdown $file]; will do the same thing
sorear they desugar to functions, but it's different from the normal fnction syntax
I think you can say my @htmlresult = rungather("markdown $file") and it has the same effect 02:34
n: say &rungather
p6eval niecza v21-32-g3b04575: OUTPUT«sub rungather(Any $command_line) { ... }␤»
sorear r: say &rungather
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
sorear r: say &moo
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
sorear hey cool I found a rakudobug I think 02:35
jnthn: is this known?
smartviking Thanks I'll understand it eventually, I'm just now writing my first perl program so that why I use code I don't understand :)
sorear smartviking: I get the impresion you're not new to programming though
well, welcome to #perl6, smartviking. I hope you come often :D 02:36
smartviking sorear: Yeah I'm a hobbyist, have been doing python for a couple of years :)
sorear: Thanks :)
sorear runs a geoip on smartviking 02:37
[Coke] jnthn: how do I pass arguments to a callmethod Op?
jnthn [Coke]: Just put them as extra children of the node 02:38
That's unchanged from PAST :)
sorear: Is what known exactly? 02:39
sorear: Is there...soemthing claled rungather? :)
[Coke] jnthn: does old :node($/) in an Past Op translate to anything in qast?
jnthn [Coke]: Unchanged.
*called
sorear jnthn: rakduo does not catch "say &nonexistant" at compile time 02:40
jnthn sorear: We've never done so in Rakudo, afaik. 02:41
sorear jnthn: I'm willing to accept that I implemented the wrong name in niecza and there's no such thing as rungather in the specs, but Rakudo's error is... LTA.
jnthn sorear: And explicitly don't do so.
sorear: Does the spec say somewhere that this one should be a compile time error?
sorear std: say &moo
p6eval std 77327a4: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'moo' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 44m␤»
jnthn We've never had it that way for a long time, anyway. 02:42
sorear r: if 0 { moo; } # there was a time when Rakudo didn't even catc this
jnthn I can make it so, but had been under the impression it wasn't meant to be.
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&moo' called (line 1)␤»
jnthn Right, I agree it should catch that at compile time. 02:43
n: &foo; sub foo() { } 02:44
p6eval niecza v21-32-g3b04575: ( no output )
jnthn Hm, so it isn't treated just like any sigil'd variable.
sorear for the purposes of compile time checking, &foo; and foo; are considered the same 02:46
(the code which handles this is rather dubious and should not be copied exactly)
jnthn Well, what we compile them to in terms of nodes is rathre different so the analysis will certainly look different. 02:49
*rather
[Coke] jnthn: if I add your line, I get Null PMC access in find_method('new') 02:51
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jnthn [Coke]: huh 02:52
Maybe one of us typo'd something
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jnthn nqp: use QAST; class Internals { }; QAST::Op.new( :op('callmethod'), :name('foo'), QAST::WVal.new( :value(Internals) ) ) 02:53
p6eval nqp: ( no output )
jnthn nqp: use QAST; class Internals { }; QAST::Op.new( :op('callmethod'), :name('foo'), QAST::WVal.new( :value(Internals) ) ); say 'ok'
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say 'ok'"␤current instr.: 'panic' pc 19999 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:7315) (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pm:324)␤»
jnthn nqp: use QAST; class Internals { }; QAST::Op.new( :op('callmethod'), :name('foo'), QAST::WVal.new( :value(Internals) ) ); say('ok')
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«ok␤»
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sorear jnthn: slightly amusing thing: we had a user here earlier who thought QAST::IVal was QAST::lVal and kept calling them l-values 02:57
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jnthn sorear: Font fail. 03:05
They look rather different here :)
But yes, that will be very confusing. 03:06
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[Coke] I have src/Partcl/Actions.pm and am trying to use src/TclInternals... Trying to figure out the correct use statement. 03:14
jnthn I think it does little more than separate by colons and look for the appropriate .pir or .pbc file 03:21
[Coke] nqp: use some::thing::or::other; 03:24
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«"load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'some/thing/or/other.pbc'␤current instr.: '' pc 1834 (src/stage2/gen/module_loader.pir:788) (src/ModuleLoader.pm:59)␤»
[Coke] I'm getting "confused at line 1..."
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[Coke] ARGLEBARGLE wrong branch. 03:28
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[Coke] now back to "Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op call: Can only use get_how on a SixModelObject 03:35
(pushed WIP to nqp2 branch) 03:37
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jnthn [Coke]: Maybe a leftover PAST:: node somewhere? 03:42
[Coke] not in any of the code I'm generating. (some left elsewhere int eh code base) 03:46
...urk. missing a change.
I clearly need more caffiene.
... but that change no effect. 03:49
jnthn Do you have any literal strings or intergers in the tree?
[Coke] That is possible. 03:52
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[Coke] if I change the call to use some hardcoded SVals, I get a different error about invoke() not implemented in class 'NQPMu' 03:54
which makes me think it didn't find the Internals class.
jnthn hm, I'd expect a different error in that case 04:02
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[Coke] I can't tell if it means my invoke or if invoke is a sixmodel method. 04:08
if I rename my method to "barf", I still get an error about invoke() 04:10
MikeFair_ [Coke]: Every time I've encountered invoke and NQPMu in the same error sentence it's meant that I've passed a null node
jnthn Hm 04:13
MikeFair_ [Coke]: Or more specifically, a node that wasn't there was asked for
jnthn Maybe a missing :op('call')
lunch &
[Coke] jnthn: I'm using the callmethod you suggested. 04:14
and then passing in 2 hardcoded SVals. 04:15
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MikeFair_ notices the lVal versus IVal "And yes folks that poor confused soul would be me. Quite embarassing actually. I'm just glad that at least jnthn recognized it as a font fail. :)" 04:21
[Coke] goes to sleep 04:25
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moritz \o morning 05:36
TimToady o/ 05:37
we are sitting in LAX at the moment
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sorear I've been there 05:42
so close and yet so far 05:43
o/ moritz
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jnthn back from lunch 06:05
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moritz jnthn: your time zone is totally non-CEST :-) 06:44
jnthn :P 06:48
.oO( no, don't make a joke about being totally in CEST... )
whee, NativeCall has a lot of warnings... 06:49
dalek ecza: f46ea4d | sorear++ | FETCH_URL:
Update bootstrap to v22
 06:51
sorear release sent. 06:52
dalek volaj: 32bbd4f | jonathan++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
Update for sigilless variable spec changes, eliminating warnings.
sorear phenny: tell bonsaikitten Just for you, I made sure the v22 tag would build with itself, rather than requiring v21 :D 06:53
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when bonsaikitten is around.
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dalek volaj: 95df414 | jonathan++ | t/07-writebarrier.c:
Fix 07-writebarrier.t for Win32.
 06:56
volaj: 8583324 | jonathan++ | examples/win32-api-call.p6:
Fix Win32 NCI example to work portably.
 06:58
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dalek volaj: b538ecb | jonathan++ | examples/win32-api-call.p6:
Don't explicitly add the .dll.
 07:02
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kresike good morning all you happy perl6 people 07:48
jnthn o/ kresike 07:49
sorear o/
kresike jnthn, sorear o/
Ulti github.com/cjfields/bioperl6 yay! 07:53
lame they already made a FASTA Grammar :/ maybe I should give them mine which handles DNA and protein sequences at the same time and understands the difference 07:55
I really think bioinformatics could easily be the killer app for perl6, I'm not sure you understand how much grammars will ease all coding efforts for bioinformaticians 07:56
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sorear Ulti: hahahahaha 07:56
Ulti on a daily basis I have to reformat data between several new bespoke file formats into something sane, leaving a grammar for these in a file is much more sensible than a tonne of uncommented perl 5.8 style regex 07:57
sorear: why the manic laughter?
daxim grammar-style parsers have been available for years in p5-land
sorear Ulti: the thought of running a perl 6 grammar over 3 bln base pairs
Ulti daxim: yeah but not in core 07:58
trust me installing packages in a university is not trivial
I use perlbrew for everything :(
and rsync it around
sorear 3 million is pushing current possibility :(
jnthn sorear: Just 'cus it ain't so fast now doesn't mean it never will be. 07:59
Ulti sorear: well people use the current perl5 regex engine in an ensemble similar to a grammar
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Ulti plus people have compute power 07:59
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Ulti they have much less time to get formats right 07:59
daxim but e.g. the bioperl dist already has a 1001 dependencies
Ulti yeah which is why I do everything myself with perl5 regex ;) 08:00
I also use mojolicious rather than catalyst because (lol Moose)
sorear you dislike moose but you're ok with p6? 08:02
Ulti no I like Moose, I dont like how much effort it is to install
I love Moose
but perl6 is Moose without the epic deps
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daxim I just flipped the bozo bit on you, care to hear why? 08:03
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Ulti im just saying in the near term future perl6 does fulfill a big role in the niche I live in 08:03
sorear Ulti: I'm confused, how does more dependencies translate into more effort? 08:04
Ulti because I can't actually install any of them without great effort
at home its fine, at work its a nightmare
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Ulti if Moose was core and my department actually used a distribution of Linux that wasnt a decade old I guess I would have no reason to complain 08:06
kresike Ulti, I think you should refocus your efforts of working around security/policy problems at work into asking the people to help you do your work by installing what you need or allowing you to do it.
I mean the people responsible for policy/security. 08:07
Ulti yeah I tried that at first, but they demanded that I tell them each package at a time to install, I couldn't just blanket install all of perl 08:08
sorear Ulti: what prevents you from just doing cpanm -S Moose after perlbrew and going on a lunch break? 08:09
Ulti my point was more a perl that comes with nice syntax for writing parsers and no need for external dependencies for OO is a good thing.. whether that should be perl5 or perl6 isn't something I'm massively into arguing about
sorear well 08:10
scratch the -S
Ulti sorear: nothing, thats what I do do, then I do it again for the endless different types of machine I work on, and my bashrc gets bigger and bigger working out which perl environment to use
and I have to synch up the perlbrew installations
daxim [09:58] <Ulti> I use perlbrew for everything :( 08:11
[09:58] <Ulti> and rsync it around
here's the thing, wrong tool for the problem
learn packaging, you can get up and running with rpm in half an hour
moritz daxim: it doesn't work out like that in practise 08:13
if you use the system perl, sooner or later you run into problems when modules depend on newwer versions of your core modules 08:14
and then you're pretty much screwed
daxim your knowledge is outdated, not a problem anymore sine 5.12: perldoc.perl.org/perl5120delta.html...ganization 08:15
moritz and yet our production systems still run 5.10.* 08:16
jnthn FROGGS: SDL6's META.info fails to list NativeCall as a dependency.
FROGGS: Also, when I panda install SDL after doing that manually, I get "Cannot import symbol &trait_mod:<is> from Inline" 08:19
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sorear daxim: What part of "Ulti> if ... my department actually used a distribution of Linux that wasnt a decade old" makes you think 5.12 is an option? 08:20
daxim you and moritz are fixated on the system perl, although I never mentioned that - I just said packaging. it's perfectly possible to package to e.g. /opt/modernperl and base everything on top of that 08:23
FROGGS jnthn: the thin about trait_mod:<is> seems to be an open issue or rakudo, there is a TODO in World.pm around line 260
jnthn FROGGS: Ah, OK. I can probably look at that. 08:24
FROGGS: Please can I haz a commit bit for File::Spec so I can do a Win32 fix?
FROGGS I'm trying to make these symbol merges right, but had no luck so far, still trying to understand the rakudo code
jnthn: of course
daxim brew + rsync + rubberbands is a poor substitute for the existing toolchain 08:25
moritz daxim: well, using the system perl is the obvious first choice. If that's not what you meant, it would have helped to be more forthcoming with your information
daxim: we can't read your mind over IRC
FROGGS jnthn: you have commit bit
kresike daxim, packaging up a modern perl over ancient system libraries can be hard too, especially if one has many distros or architectures to handle 08:27
jnthn FROGGS: Thanks, pushed a fix :) 08:28
daxim otoh, don't underestimate how much research by full-time sysops has been funneled into easing/solving those problems already, most of the time it just takes a bit of research to find the existing code/extension to paper over the differences instead of needing to writing from scratch 08:29
jnthn FROGGS: Hm, well, I fixed the tempdir bit. Now trying to install Inline::C complains about catfile... 08:32
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FROGGS jnthn: I can fix that stuff on windows this evening too 08:36
or maybe even in an hour, I'm currently in a meeting 08:37
jnthn FROGGS: It's OK, I already pushed something that should fix it up :)
Oh, but I think it may get some slashes wrong or something 08:39
Or maybe the issue is in inline itself. The C compiler complains. 08:40
FROGGS wrong slashes? windows should be able to handle / 08:44
maybe its about spaces in path? 08:45
jnthn maybe, but the tmp path it gets contains no spaces 08:49
Windows doesn't *always* handle / well :) 08:50
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jnthn (but cl tends to, so yeah, not sure it's a slash issue) 08:50
sorear what if cl thinks it's a command option? 08:53
dalek ecza: 3c5f8e1 | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
Top removal: regex engine
ecza: 5ac00cc | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
Top removal: StashCursor
ecza: 9840f57 | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
Top removal: Kernel, some easy cases
sorear sleep&
Ulti dalek: here's the thing, I already know about packaging and I use deb, but this isnt a system I have root on, its not even a system where I have enough disk space to run my own package of every thing I need 08:57
sorry daxim
too many people here for quick tab complete :)
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Ulti perl 5.8 is the perl experience for a lot of people still as much as I hate that myself, on servers I do have some control on I pushed up to 5.10.1 and that took heroic efforts on my part, my job is not to sysadmin half of a university 08:59
perlbrew also introduces unique problems when you want your perl running in CGI through apache that you dont control 09:01
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Ulti core perl6 just has features that I'd use which I'd love to see in perl5 as default vanilla system perl 09:01
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arnsholt Ulti: I feel you. I had more or less the same experience up until relatively recently 09:04
It sucks
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kunal when will Perl6 be released? 09:04
tadzik it's released every month
Ulti well last months Rakudo is on my laptop runs pretty smoothly 09:05
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jnthn arnsholt: hi! :) 09:05
arnsholt: I patched a couple of NativeCall bits earlier. Seems the struct test fails on Win32 with segfault...didn't get to look at it yet. 09:06
Ulti arnsholt yeah I feel like I live in the 1980s TRON style, with the master control telling me what I can and cant run
kunal then why is perl5 actively supported it should have died as perl 4 and perl6 used instead
arnsholt jnthn: Odd. Hopefully noy anything I did =) 09:07
tadzik no, it should have not
that was not the idea
Ulti because perl6 is a different language kunal its not really replacing perl5, which is under active development as part of the Modern Perl movement
kunal so what was the idea behind perl 6
09:07 flightrecorder left
kunal okay how is it different from perl 5 09:07
Ulti take on board all the flights of fancy people have which would utterly break perl5 syntax
arnsholt Also, Perl 4 coexisted with Perl 5 for many years
kunal okay how many years 09:08
5 years do you expect same timeframe for perl 5
arnsholt Dunno, but quite a while from memory
Ulti kunal it has a nicer object model like Moose in perl5 and some more regex features which are also backported to perl5
09:08 FROGGS left
Ulti I doubt perl5 will ever die 09:08
kunal great i am actually happy to hear that 09:09
Ulti there is just too much of it about, especially as sysadmin type scripts, it basically replaced crufty shell scripts for a lot of work
perl5 one liners in the shell is a major reason I haven't put a lot of effort into python 09:10
though I imagine there is some work around for getting one liner regex in python, I can probably package python for every machine I work on to acheive it and then move all my code to python 09:11
kunal why do you want to move to python and leave perl?
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Ulti sorry it was a snarky dig at daxim's solution to using modern perl 09:13
bbl
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FROGGS jnthn: still problems on windows? I could have a look right now too 10:12
jnthn FROGGS: Inline::C doesn't work out with MSVC still 10:17
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FROGGS jnthn: k, I'll have a look 10:30
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colomon sorear: ping? 11:30
phenny: tell sorear Niecza completely broken: Unhandled exception: System.MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'Cursor..ctor'. 11:32
phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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FROGGS damn it, panda installs File::Spec to C:\...\login.DOMAIN\.perl6\lib but perl6 is looking in C:\...\login\.perl6\lib 11:46
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FROGGS okay, myfault, my HOME wasnt equal to HOMEDRIVE ~ HOMEPATH 11:52
jnthn: so you've got a rakudo compiled with msvc? I have the star release which was comiled with gcc as it seems 11:57
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FROGGS jnthn: can you zip it up? or is there a msvc project file? 12:09
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felher std: class C { multi method !a() { }; multi method !a(Mu $x) { }; } 12:41
p6eval std 77327a4: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ $x is declared but not used at /tmp/T28ykNgGWD line 1:␤------> lti method !a() { }; multi method !a(Mu ⏏$x) { }; }␤ok 00:00 44m␤»
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[Coke] FROGGS: there's an .msi for windows, is that not helpfuL? 13:04
FROGGS but thats built with gcc, no? 13:05
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[Coke] I don't know if the person who built it used the strawberry perl toolchain or the msvc toolchain, no. 13:15
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[Coke] installs the new SourceCodePro font from adobe on OS X... doesn't look great on my normal IRC session. ew. 13:24
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[Coke] oooh. turned on antialiasing, looks very nice. 13:26
1lLi0oO ;)
also seems to handle unicode quite nicely. 13:28
boingboing.net/2012/09/24/adobe-rel...e-cod.html
tadzik 1lLi0oO looks pretty good on Monospace :) 13:29
[Coke] oh! - click on the link, it shows the example there.
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tadzik yeah, I've seen the font 13:29
only now when you pasted 1lLi0oO on the channel I though "huh, this looks pretty dinstinguishable for me" 13:30
i.imgur.com/mC2jO.png
cognominal_ I am using incosolata on ST2. Probably should use it on xchat 13:31
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Su-Shee droid mono is also nice and unicode-able. 13:31
tadzik frankly, most fonts seem quite alike to me 13:33
only those Ubuntu fonts look like some regular font ran over by a monster truck
Su-Shee there's not that much variation in monospace fonts.. 13:34
tadzik yeah
maybe it requires a specific taste you gain over time
felher r: use parameters :D; sub a(Int $x) { }; a(Int); 13:37
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find parameters in any of: /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.8.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤»
13:37 cognominal__ joined
felher Hm, NYI i guess :) 13:38
FROGGS [Coke]: since there is no ExtUtils::CppGuess yet for perl6 I use the CC vars from parrot to compile code, and for rakudo 2012-08 that means gcc
I wanted to have jnthn's msvc-build to test the errors he got 13:39
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[Coke] had that at one point on a windows box, but hasn't been keeping up 13:41
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[Coke] Ⓢ ⒪ rry. 13:43
. o O (I got lazy half way through that experiment.;)
FROGGS ;o)
geekosaur ...write a p6 script to do it :p 13:46
tadzik ohhh, like the flag game 13:48
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moritz the first rule of the flag game is: you don't talk about the flag game 13:51
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tadzik unless it's in flag words 13:52
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moritz
.oO( but sometimes I catch people in flag ranti )
 13:52
felher Implementing 'use parameters :D' in Rakudo is far from being a LHF, I guess? 13:53
GlitchMr 1Il|ioO0oB8 13:54
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GlitchMr I guess I've good font because I can recognize those characters 13:54
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tadzik moritz: :D 13:54
GlitchMr (also, I accidentally typed "o" two times) 13:55
Too bad that my default browser monospace font doesn't recognize O and 0 very well
The worst monospace font I've seen had ( and { looking similarly 13:56
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GlitchMr stackoverflow.com/a/215911/736054 14:18
Best font... wait...
I wouldn't want to program using this. I would even use Comic Sans MS instead of that what 14:19
Ulti why not just use windings
GlitchMr Actually... I think that Wingdings or Webdings would be worse than that 14:20
I don't know
Ulti I dunno some obvious bugs might be a lot more obvious in windings.... oh man I have a hammer and smilee in my code, no point compiling yet 14:21
GlitchMr Programming in Webdings would be some sort of joke 14:23
Ulti well yeah I wasn't serious ;P 14:25
GlitchMr Ulti: dl.dropbox.com/u/63913412/webdings.png 14:27
Now, find bugs in that
moritz line 42 is wrong, obviously :-) 14:30
GlitchMr Except... my code doesn't have line 42
moritz that's why it's wrong 14:31
PerlJam GlitchMr: 3rd line, 15th character
GlitchMr PerlJam: that would be dot character
Actually, do you mean "m" or "." character?
PerlJam yeah, that's a syntax error :)
GlitchMr Syntax error in what? 14:32
That code was "Hello, world!" in Java
(also, I guess that more difficult version of that would disable syntax highlighting) 14:33
(perhaps I should've used COBOL as example, but whatever)
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GlitchMr Actually... 14:35
dl.dropbox.com/u/63913412/webdings2.png
That is more interesting
When you shout, Webdings is more annoying 14:36
Actually, I've feeling it's a feature
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Ulti GlitchMr: you missed a ferry boat on line 3 14:43
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dalek rlito: 025c8c5 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | src5/lib/Perlito5/Javascript3/Emitter.pm:
Perlito5 - js3: update TODO
 14:45
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[Coke] r: say "what" 14:51
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«what␤»
[Coke] .u ♨ 14:53
phenny U+2668 HOT SPRINGS (♨)
U+0020 SPACE ( ) 14:54
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kresike bye folks 14:55
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GlitchMr .u ~:/ 0=|/~ >:i.100 14:57
phenny GlitchMr: Sorry, your input is too long!
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 15:22
phenny pmichaud: 22 Sep 23:38Z <raiph> tell pmichaud fyi: gist.github.com/3768134
felher o/ 15:23
pmichaud just wanted to note that I expect to be able to do the star release tomorrow morning
felher pmichaud++ :) 15:24
[Coke] pmichaud++
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PerlJam www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_t...nment.html 15:42
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GlitchMr > * 1..10 15:47
1..10
I should shouldn't destroy things
std: sub prefix:<%> { 1 / $^a }; my %hash; 15:49
p6eval std 77327a4: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 46m␤»
GlitchMr std: sub prefix:<%> { 1 / $^a }; my %hash = number => %30; say %hash<number>; 15:50
p6eval std 77327a4: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 46m␤»
GlitchMr perl6: sub prefix:<%> { 1 / $^a }; my %hash = number => %30; say %hash<number>;
p6eval niecza v22-3-g9840f57: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ %hash is declared but not used at /tmp/ykluwN_yyz line 1:␤------> sub prefix:<%> { 1 / $^a }; my ⏏%hash = number => %30; say %hash<number>␤␤Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/l…
..rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized variable $a of type Any in numeric context in sub prefix:<%> at /tmp/Nb4oaV6QSA:1␤␤Divide by zero␤ in sub infix:<div> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2895␤ in method floor at src/gen/CORE.setting:7972␤ in method Str at src/gen/CORE.setting:7990␤ i…
GlitchMr std: my !hash = number => %30; say !hash<number>; 15:51
p6eval std 77327a4: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed my at /tmp/VnRxT4sAh_ line 1:␤------> my ⏏!hash = number => %30; say !hash<number>␤ expecting any of:␤ name␤ scoped declarator␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 41m␤»
GlitchMr std: my %hash = number => %30; say !hash<number>;
p6eval std 77327a4: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 43m␤»
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GlitchMr Perl 5 mode of STD: 15:57
for (my $len = .chars; $len > 0; --$lenmy $len = .chars; $len > 0; --$len) {
ok...
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dalek rl6-Text-Abbrev: da7a1d9 | GlitchMr++ | lib/Text/Abbrev.pm:
Use KeySet instead of hash.
 16:01
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skids
.oO(Never ask a Perl6 guru for an "itemized list". You'll both end up confused.)
 16:36
sirrobert in an anonymous sub like: sub {@_[0] + @_[1]} is there a better way I should refer to the args being passed in? (assuming I don't want to parameterize) 16:52
?
hoelzro sirrobert: $_[0] and $_[1], for one =)
sirrobert hrm 16:53
huf cant you do $^a and friends?
sirrobert hoelzro: why does the array sign change?
huf: I didn't know about $^a and friends (thanks!)
huf iirc they bind to the positional parameters in unicode sort order
hoelzro oops, I thought this was #perl 16:54
sorry!
huf so $^a will be the first one, $^b the second. but i'm not sure.
sirrobert hoelzro: heh no worries =)
huf: nice; just tested-- it works
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sirrobert thanks 16:54
huf sirrobert: also, you can declare params for pointy blocks, but i dont know if they help you here
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sirrobert will check it out 16:54
huf -> $a, $b { .... } # maybe that's the syntax? 16:55
spider-mario yes
or sub($a, $b) {...} must work
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spider-mario no, it doesn’t 16:56
sirrobert doing this right now:
r: sub foo ($a, $b, &c) { return &c($a,$b); }; my $foo = foo 1, 4, {$^a + $^b}; say $foo;
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«5␤»
sirrobert will try to get a feel for the other forms too
huf spider-mario: ah, but does sub ($a, $b) { } work?
rakudo: my $x = sub ($a, $b) { say $a }; $x("cats"); 16:57
spider-mario oh, it works with the space
sirrobert huf: yeah, that works
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤ in sub at /tmp/Ons5X_YoAl:1␤ in block at /tmp/Ons5X_YoAl:1␤␤»
spider-mario but then sakudo prints it without it
huf i fail at perl6, but at least my suggestions work :D
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spider-mario which is incorrect and confusing 16:57
> sub ($a, $b) {...}
sub($a, $b) { ... }
> sub($a, $b) { ... }
Variable $a is not declared
huf spider-mario: sub(...) will call the sub sub
sub () will be the sub keyword
or whatever perl6 calls those things. 16:58
if () is if, if() calls the function called 'if'
except you dont need the ()-s there, but anyway
spider-mario right, but I think the output of the REPL should be changed there 16:59
even .perl prints it incorrectly
r: (sub ($a, $b) {...}).perl.say 17:00
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«sub($a, $b) { ... }␤»
huf oh!
that's misleading, yeah
spider-mario n: (sub ($a, $b) {...}).perl.say
p6eval niecza v22-3-g9840f57: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ $a is declared but not used at /tmp/f3RguUtUzi line 1:␤------> (sub (⏏$a, $b) {...}).perl.say␤ $b is declared but not used at /tmp/f3RguUtUzi line 1:␤------> (sub ($a, ⏏$b) {...}).perl.say␤␤su…
spider-mario n: (sub ($a, $b) {$a + $b}).perl.say
p6eval niecza v22-3-g9840f57: OUTPUT«sub ANON(Any $a, Any $b) { ... }␤»
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sevvie Hey everyone. I came around about a month ago, asking about why rakudo-star wouldn't compile on a Macbook. (irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-08-23#i_5920252) I didn't come to a conclusion then, but I started digging at it recently; the way brew solves the problems on Macs is by compiling the most recent version of libffi and replacing the -I portions of CFLAGS with ones that point to the newer libffi. (github.com/mxcl/homebrew/blob/master/Library/F 17:33
Just... in case anyone needs that, or googles it.
github.com/mxcl/homebrew/blob/mast...tar.rb#L14
sirrobert sevvie thanks =) 17:35
sevvie You're welcome; and, thank you! 17:36
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dalek rlito: 9106461 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
Perlito5 - js3 - @_ binds to lvalues
 17:37
rindolf Hi all. In Rakudo "make spectest" fails - paste.debian.net/192906/ . Mageia Linux 3/Cauldron x86-64. 17:39
[Coke] nqp: gist.github.com/3783359 17:42
p6eval nqp: ( no output )
dalek rlito: 3596c1a | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - js3 - fix indentation
[Coke] dahell? that fails locally. 17:43
nqp: gist.github.com/3783359
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«alive␤»
[Coke] O_o
FROGGS rindolf: I get the same fails too 17:48
rindolf FROGGS: I see. 17:49
FROGGS but I didnt checked if there is a ticket or a TODO or somthing
sorear rindolf! \o/ 17:52
phenny sorear: 11:32Z <colomon> tell sorear Niecza completely broken: Unhandled exception: System.MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'Cursor..ctor'.
sorear colomon_: ping
dalek rlito: 1306f63 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - js3 - fix parameter list interpolation
rindolf sorear: hi.
sorear: what's up? 17:53
sorear rindolf: you're here. that's unusual. 17:54
rindolf sorear: yes, because I want to report the failing tests.
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colomon_ sorear: pong 17:57
[Coke] once you have a QAST, how do you compile and run it?
(assuming you have one with a :main) 17:58
sorear colomon_: I suspect that what's going on is badly handled stale compiled modules, what happens if you move ~/.local/share/NieczaModuleCache out of the way?
colomon_ needs to get better at following irssi if he is not going to miss messages while his MBP is away for repairs. 17:59
sorear I can do email.
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colomon_ sorear: blowing away NieczaModuleCache seems to have done the trick. Thanks! 18:02
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dalek rlito: 0d21f22 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - js3 - more efficient list interpolation
 18:28
sirrobert where can I get info on how to use perl6-debug? 18:30
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Ulti sevvie: I haven't had any problems with my Macbook, what version of OSX are you on? 18:38
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colomon_ sorear: just notice that I do get at least one real spectest fail with the new niecza, t/spec/S02-names-vars/names.t 18:42
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[Coke] phenny: ask jnthn how to run a QAST CompUnit in a standalone NQP program when you're testing QAST. 18:45
phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
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japhb sirrobert, jnthn++ did a presentation on perl6-debug. IIRC you can start with 'perl6-debug foo' rather than 'perl6 foo' and use the 'help' command to get a feel for what's available. 18:50
sorear japhb: were you there? I didn't see you 18:58
sirrobert ah, great =)
sorear o/ kst
sirrobert r: enum E <A B C>; for (E::A, E::B, E::C) { say $^a ?? "yep" !! "nope" } 19:01
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«nope␤yep␤yep␤»
sirrobert I find that *very* unexpected ... am I missing anything?
(I think it's because the first one is getting evaluated as 0 because it's the first one)
r: enum E <A B>; say so E::A; say so E::B; 19:02
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
sirrobert r: enum E <A B>; say E::A; say E::B; 19:03
p6eval rakudo 16f22b: OUTPUT«A␤B␤»
sorear sirrobert: spec oversight, I'd say
sirrobert I think in bool context it should be True (or 0E0), and in Int context it should be 0;
sorear enums are specced to inherit from Int, and they don't have spec bool behavior
so they inherit Int's bool behavior
sirrobert ok
hmmm 19:04
how should I bring that up to someone?
sorear file a ticket against github.com/perl6/specs
sirrobert ok, cool
thanks
japhb sorear, I was there, then I was gone, now I'm back. ;-)
sorear japhb: I can't remember if we've met 19:06
japhb In person, no. It's been years since I've been able to travel to any conferences/hackathons/etc.
sorear so you were not at frankfurt 2012? 19:07
japhb shakes his head sadly
sorear ah well
austin 2013?
[Coke] if you don't want your enums to have the default values, you can override them, fyi. 19:09
japhb sorear, I somewhat doubt it, though at least (if it stays with the YAPC norm) it's not during the school year.
sorear japhb: where and when *would* be convenient? :D 19:11
japhb San Francisco (especially the north bay) -- just about any time. :-) 19:12
sorear but school years are relevant, eh? 19:13
japhb Problem is, the only Perl conference around here is O'Reilly's, and it's REALLY expensive if you aren't getting the fees waved.
sorear wonders if japhb has met TimToady
japhb Yes.
He probably doesn't remember, though -- I apparently caught him at a bad moment.
School year is relevant because I have three kids in school. ;-) 19:14
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sorear japhb: aren't you yourself on a phd track of some kind? 19:18
japhb chuckles
Wow. Uh, no.
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sorear I must be confusing you with someone else 19:19
flussence japhd?
sorear huh?
flussence bad pun :) 19:20
sorear flussence: japhb is itself a bad pun
japhb ;-) 19:21
flussence hm, does that mine a double negative, or just twice as bad...
japhb yes?
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dalek rlito: 005a246 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - js3 - cleanup
 19:46
GlitchMr Perlito is cool, but it didn't have Perlito6 updates for long time 19:48
But it's nice to see Perl 5 part being improved 19:49
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sorear GlitchMr: having spoken with fglock in Perl, I expect the run of perlito5 improvements to continue for a while 19:50
GlitchMr Also, perlcabal.org/~fglock/perlito5.html is outdated 19:54
I wonder how can I install it on my harddrive somehow
sorear I beleive fglock was using node when he was demoing it in Perl 19:55
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pmurias GlitchMr: git clone the repo from github 19:57
GlitchMr Wow, I have it downloading at 99% 19:58
pmurias sorear: perlito5 uses node for running js from the CLI
GlitchMr That 99% is long
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sorear github-- # it would be very useful if the notifications mailings could say GlitchMr instead of just Конрад Боровски, making me look stuff up 20:27
FROGGS ya, it should show both the nick and the real name 20:29
masak evenin', #perl6 20:35
colomon_ o/ 20:38
[Coke] masak: guten abend. 20:43
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sorear o/ masak 20:50
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masak 'night, #perl6 21:27
[Coke] SWADOL* 21:28
felher o/ masak 21:29
sorear L?
[Coke] Large 21:30
sorear hrm, what was the original? 21:31
sleep well and dream of large ...?
[Coke] “women” 21:33
(quote from the princess bride, for those in the log) 21:34
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