»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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dalek c: cf44bb7 | raiph++ | doc/Language/performance.pod:
More tweaking

Examples of using native types still missing.		 01:58
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AlexDaniel j: say $*PERL.compiler 02:04
camelia rakudo-jvm f99bdb: OUTPUT«rakudo (2015.10.134.g.273.e.895)␤»
AlexDaniel can we get that updated?
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AlexDaniel When I run tests locally how can I skip fudged tests? Right now I'm getting lots of failures which pollutes the output. 02:25
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ugexe i dont think it actually works yet 02:36
it just builds
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AlexDaniel ah, it seems like I have to use ｢fudge｣ script 02:36
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MadcapJake is there anything like ruby's freeze? As in, can I modify a hash, then after completed, "freeze" it preventing further modification 02:48
masak MadcapJake: pour it into a Map, maybe? 02:50
MadcapJake Cool, thanks! 02:52
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gfldex m: my %h; my $m = %h.Map; 02:56
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Method 'Map' not found for invocant of class 'Hash'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ZTAi7l5yR1 line 1␤␤»
gfldex m: my @a; my $l = @a.List; 02:58
camelia ( no output )
dalek c: be235bf | raiph++ | doc/Language/performance.pod:
Yet more tweaks
 02:59
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MadcapJake m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %h<d> = 4; my \m = Map.new(|%h); m<e> = 5; 03:00
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Nil␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/UvS1rDTdHe line 1␤␤»
MadcapJake m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %h<d> = 4; my \m = Map.new(|%h); say m; 03:01
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Map.new(())␤»
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MadcapJake m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %h<d> = 4; my \m = Map.new(%h.pairs); say m; 03:01
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Map.new((:a(1),:b(2),:c(3),:d(4)))␤»
MadcapJake m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %h<d> = 4; my \m = Map.new(%h.pairs); m<e> = 5; 03:02
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Nil␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Ra0T4m6QRU line 1␤␤»
MadcapJake m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %h<d> = 4; my \m = Map.new(%h.pairs); m<a> = 'foo';
camelia ( no output )
MadcapJake m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %h<d> = 4; my \m = Map.new(%h.pairs); m<a> = 'foo'; say m;
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Map.new((:a("foo"),:b(2),:c(3),:d(4)))␤»
MadcapJake dang you can still modify it 03:03
raiph .tell jnthn with apologies for .tell'ing you but just an fyi, for anyone reading this, 2 days, no comments/answer for stackoverflow.com/questions/3524652...ns-pointer (I don't feel equipped to answer it) 03:04
yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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MadcapJake masak, are a Map's pairs supposed to be immutable too? 03:05
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MadcapJake m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %h<d> = 4; my \m = Map.new(%h.pairs); m<a>.WHAT.say; 03:08
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
MadcapJake m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %h<d> = 4; my \m = Map.new(%h.pairs); m[0].WHAT.say;
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«(Map)␤»
MadcapJake m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %h<d> = 4; my \m = Map.new(%h.pairs); m[1].WHAT.say; 03:09
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«(Failure)␤»
MadcapJake m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %h<d> = 4; my \m = Map.new(%h.pairs); m.perl.say;
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Map.new((:a(1),:b(2),:c(3),:d(4)))␤»
MadcapJake why are the pairs surrounded by parentheses? 03:10
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gfldex MadcapJake: without forcing a list, the named arguments would be considered as being unspecified in the method that is new. 03:12
m: role FinalHash { multi method ASSIGN-KEY(Hash:D: Str:D \key, Mu \assignval) is raw { die 'boohoo' }; multi method BIND-KEY(Hash:D: Str:D \key, Mu \assignval) is raw { die 'boohoo' }; multi method ASSIGN-KEY(Hash:D: \key, Mu \assignval) is raw { die 'boohoo' } }; my %h = a => 1; %h but FinalHash; dd %h; %h<b> = 2; dd %h; 03:13
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Hash %h = {:a(1)}␤Hash %h = {:a(1), :b(2)}␤»
gfldex i'm confused that this doesn
't work
AlexDaniel star: 2 ** 4553535345364535345634543534 03:14
camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "**" in expression "2 ** 4553535345364535345634543534" in sink context (line 1)␤»
AlexDaniel star: say 2 ** 4553535345364535345634543534
camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«0␤»
AlexDaniel ah, okay
j: 2 ** 4553535345364535345634543534
camelia rakudo-jvm f99bdb: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "**" in expression "2 ** 4553535345364535345634543534" in sink context (line 1)␤»
AlexDaniel j: say 2 ** 4553535345364535345634543534
camelia rakudo-jvm f99bdb: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
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gfldex MadcapJake: thanks for spotting another hole in the docs that I shall plug after waking up 03:20
dalek ast: f163812 | (Dan Kogai)++ | S32-num/power.t:
introduce X::Numeric::Overflow
 03:21
ast: ccff90d | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | S32-num/power.t:
Merge pull request #96 from dankogai/master

introduce X::Numeric::Overflow
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BenGoldberg j: say exp(4553535345364535345634543534) 03:39
camelia rakudo-jvm f99bdb: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
BenGoldberg star: say exp(4553535345364535345634543534)
camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
BenGoldberg m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; my %m := %h.map; %m.say; 03:41
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Cannot call map(Hash: ); none of these signatures match:␤ ($: Hash \h, *%_)␤ (\SELF: &block;; :$label, :$item, *%_)␤ (HyperIterable:D $: &block;; :$label, *%_)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/mcDIMeYI0a line 1␤␤»
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dalek ast: 2da35ad | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | S32-num/power.t:
Fudge/unfudge tests according to ccff90d

JVM behavior of returning Inf is no longer considered correct.		 03:43
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dalek c: 111695e | raiph++ | doc/Language/performance.pod:
Last tweaks?

Sorry about tweak stream raiph--		 03:51
BenGoldberg m: my %p := :foo<bar>; %p.say;
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«foo => bar␤»
BenGoldberg m: my %p := :foo<bar>; %p<foo>.say;
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«bar␤»
BenGoldberg m: my %p := :foo<bar>; %p<other>.say;
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
BenGoldberg m: my %p := :foo<bar>; %p<other> = 'baz'; %p.say; 03:52
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Mu␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/m2_qVtruBd line 1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; my %m := %h.Map.clone; %m.say; 03:53
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Method 'Map' not found for invocant of class 'Hash'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ZA1PWgUVAZ line 1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; my %m := Map.new(%h).clone; %m.say;
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Map.new((:a(1),:b(2),:c(3)))␤»
BenGoldberg m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; my %m := Map.new(%h).clone; %m.say; my %i := %m<a> :p; %i.say; ++$i.value; %i.say; (%h<a>:p).say; 03:58
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/nyZWbrXIGh␤Variable '$i' is not declared. Did you mean '%i'?␤at /tmp/nyZWbrXIGh:1␤------> 3e; %m.say; my %i := %m<a> :p; %i.say; ++7⏏5$i.value; %i.say; (%h<a>:p).say;␤»
BenGoldberg m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; my %m := Map.new(%h).clone; %m.say; my %i := %m<a> :p; %i.say; ++%i.value; %i.say; (%h<a>:p).say;
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Map.new((:a(1),:b(2),:c(3)))␤a => 1␤a => 2␤a => 2␤»
BenGoldberg m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; my %m := Map.new(map *.clone, %h); %m.say; my %i := %m<a> :p; %i.say; ++%i.value; %i.say; (%h<a>:p).say; 04:00
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Map.new((:a(1),:b(2),:c(3)))␤a => 1␤a => 2␤a => 1␤»
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Herby_ Evening, everyone! 04:05
\o
BenGoldberg Good evening. 04:11
m: 2⁴⁵⁵³⁵³⁵³⁴⁵³⁶⁴⁵³⁵³⁴⁵; 04:13
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Numeric overflow␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_NohIc1Wxq line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_NohIc1Wxq line 1␤␤»
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AlexDaniel m: for "A\nB\nC\nD".lines() -> $x, $y { say "$x, then $y" } 04:50
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«A, then B␤C, then D␤»
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hankache hello 05:47
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hankache where are the modules installed? is there a dynamic variable to get hold of the repo? 06:15
jdv79 $*REPO is the head of the list i think 06:16
oh, just a guess 06:17
m: say $*REPO.repo-chain
hankache m: say $*REPO
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«(inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.12-307-gd68c304 inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6 CompUnit::Repository::AbsolutePath.new(next-repo => Com…»
rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.12-307-gd68c304␤»
hankache jdv79 thanks 06:19
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hankache rakudobrew build moar-2016.01.1 what am i missing? 06:48
oh no hyphen. it should be rakudobrew build moar 2016.01.1 06:49
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MadcapJake how would you do the pattern where you have a base class that has a default (overridable) `new` method that creates an instance of "Base::Default" 07:12
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MadcapJake either my Base class can't find the Base::Default or my Base::Default can't find the Base it's inheriting from 07:13
(depending on which comes first in a file)
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MadcapJake What does "cannot invoke code type object" mean? why can't it? 07:39
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nine Because it's undefined? 07:40
m: my Code $c; $c(); 07:43
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Can not invoke a code type object␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/I7QbsaX2fZ line 1␤␤»
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MadcapJake ok, thanks for the lead, was really stumped :P 07:45
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MadcapJake what reason would there be for an exception to not print the message method's result? 07:58
I get this «exception produced no message» 07:59
FROGGS MadcapJake: maybe it failed to construct the text that is generated by .message()? 08:02
like, if an attribute of the exception cannot be stringified 08:03
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MadcapJake FROGGS, thanks! That was it! 08:07
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MadcapJake Working on a port of Github's new Scientist Ruby library into Perl 6. Most of the legwork is done, still not working though (many bugs). after the bugs, I'll try to perl6ify the interface a bit github.com/MadcapJake/Test-Lab 08:51
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dalek c: 4eaf3e7 | Nat++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod:
Fix example grammar to allow leading spaces so that it parses the example text
 09:09
c: 7460b29 | sylvarant++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod:
Merge pull request #386 from tenatus/master

Fix example grammar to allow leading spaces so that it parses the exa…
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moritz \o 09:19
everybody, if you see the same person repeatedly opening pull requests on perl6/* repos, please let me know so I can give them direct commit access
I try to follow them myself, but I get several hundred notifications from github per day and can't keep up anymore 09:20
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CurtisOvidPoe I have some very simple code, using Rats, which throws the exception "Type check failed in assignment to $w; expected Rat but got Num" gist.github.com/Ovid/74ffc49d1b8450036e80 09:26
Background: it models a funtion that *should* coverge on 6, but every known floating point implementation causes it to converge on 6, and then go crazy and converge on 100. Perl 6 Real numbers exhibit this behavior, so I was hoping Rats would do the right thing, but they don’t. Advice? 09:28
lizmat confirmed here 09:29
fwiw, it doesn't appear to be spesh or jit related
and the error really happens in line 7
(so not something inside of the setting) 09:30
partly_ i stumbled over some code which access PIO::PF_INET6(), but I can not find any documentation on PIO 09:32
lizmat CurtisOvidPoe: it looks like it is running out ouf Rat precision:
Int $n = 26 09:33
Rat $v = <21024692798570322907/3494181358965822047>
*of
CurtisOvidPoe lizmat: that makes sense. It’s a weird case, but given that it’s an example of showing how pathologically wrong floating point math can be, I was hoping it would just work. I need to switch to FatRats?
lizmat that appears to have its issues as well: Type check failed in assignment to $u; expected FatRat but got Rat 09:36
my FatRat ($u,$v) = (FatRat(2.0), FatRat(-4.0)); # converges on 6, Perl 6 FTW ! 09:37
CurtisOvidPoe lizmat (and anyone else curious): perso.ens-lyon.fr/jean-michel.mull...pitre1.pdf is chock full o’ examples of floating point math going disastrously wrong, with code written in C. Would be nice to make all of them work. 09:38
lizmat I'll make sure it gets mentioned in the next P6W
CurtisOvidPoe lizmat: cool. I think we’re so close, in many ways, to making these things work nicely. 09:39
Any reason why Rats can’t be auto-promoted to FatRats on demand? 09:40
lizmat m: my FatRat $a = 2.0 # too bad this fails
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $a; expected FatRat but got Rat␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/z8rFJ2i4Io line 1␤␤»
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FROGGS lizmat++ 09:43
lizmat CurtisOvidPoe: not sure why they're promoted to floats
perhaps someone with more history in the Perl 6 project can tell 09:44
moritz m: my FatRat() $a = 2.0; 09:45
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/zyxNGxsOmo␤Coercion FatRat(Any) is insufficiently type-like to qualify a variable␤at /tmp/zyxNGxsOmo:1␤------> 3my FatRat() $a7⏏5 = 2.0;␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤»
moritz CurtisOvidPoe: basically, that's what coercion types are for, and they aren't pervasively enough implemented (yet?)
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moritz note that we don't auto-promote other numerical types either 09:50
m: my Num $x = 1;
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/trm_NwZRdR␤Cannot assign a literal of type Int (1) to a variable of type Num. You can declare the variable to be of type Real, or try to coerce the value with 1.Num or Num(1), or just write the value as 1e0…»
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lizmat moritz: put going from Rat to FatRat is not really promoting? doesn't feel like it to me 09:56
masak <lizmat> perhaps someone with more history in the Perl 6 project can tell 09:58
yes.
dalek p: 6ec14a5 | lizmat++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
Bump MOAR_REVISION
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masak this is trying to learn from the mistakes of ABC/Python, where rational precision was kept at all costs, causing programs to fail by being unreasonably slow or running out of memory. 09:59
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masak I agree that there should be an easy way to opt back into keeping all of that nice precision. not sure the opt-in needs to be more fancy than just using FatRat in the first place. 09:59
CurtisOvidPoe, lizmat: ^ 10:00
lizmat my FatRat $a = 2.0 # masak: should that work?
moritz lizmat: from a type model point of view, there's no direct relation between Rat and FatRat that could make autopromotion work 10:01
that is, FatRat doesn't inherit from Rat
CurtisOvidPoe It would be nice if we could use FatRat as a standard type, even if we don’t auto-promote Rat to FatRat. It would also be nice if we had an “auto-promote” pragma to make things easier in this problem space.
moritz what do you mean by "use FatRat as a standard type"? 10:03
have a literal syntax for it?
FROGGS .oO( 2F0 )
FROGGS .oO( or 2R0 ? )
masak lizmat: Perl 6's type system is nominal, not structural. which means you can't fit a FatRat value into a Rat variable, even when it's evident to you by inspection that it'd work.
moritz masak: fwiw lizmat and CurtisOvidPoe are talking about the other direction: fitting a Rat value into a FatRat variable (though you point still stands) 10:04
jnthn A structural type system wouldn't do it either, no? Because the structure of a FatRat is two bigints, not a bigint and a 64-bit int.
masak lizmat: taking a longer perspective, your question is yet another instance of a long-running discussion in Perl 6-land: do we have enough coercion by default in Perl 6's numeric types? 10:05
jnthn: I was talking about the more general phenomenon of "the shape is enough, don't worry about names and inheritance"
moritz well, my proposed solution would be to make explicit coercion types work on variables as well 10:06
masak moritz: oh, I meant it in that direction. sorry 'bout le confusion.
moritz and then we can tell people "if you want coercion to FatRat, declare it as my FatRat() $r and all is as you want"
masak moritz: agreed. though that doesn't seem to be enough for a contingency, spearheaded by CurtisOvidPoe.
at least last time I checked in on this discussion. 10:07
jnthn Short of coercion types, where you ask for coercy semantics, I don't see us breaking the "types are constraints" general rule.
lizmat jnthn: you're suggesting something like an AnyRat ? 10:08
jnthn lizmat: No
timotimo yo
jnthn I'm suggesting that my Rat() $foo = ... (that is, you explicitly ask for coercion)
Otherwise it's a constraint.
As today 10:09
lizmat my FatRat(Rat) $foo = 2.0
jnthn That'd do it, yes
lizmat BTW, is yoleaux awol ?
jnthn I see the problem as this: people want DWIM, but people also want to put types into their programs to check various expectations are met, but the more DWIM you stick into a type system the harder it is to trust what it's checking. 10:11
Not to mention that it'd make it harder for Perl 6 compilers to reason about, hurting our ability to do static analysis, and similar for VMs, which derive a good amount of performance from understanding what types have showed up. 10:13
Case in point: when it was decided that we should make Failure allowed to slip through return type constraints, the initial implementation broke inlining of nearly everything, and it still costs us to this day. 10:14
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moritz isn't too happy with that 10:16
masak me either, but it's apparently a done thing in type theory too :/ 10:18
cf ⊥ 10:19
moritz you mean by having a bottom type?
CurtisOvidPoe FWIW: though I sometimes want different behavior from what I experience in Perl 6, I’m also (generally) not beating a drum about it. jnthn’s points are well taken.
jnthn "Bottom type" and all that...
masak aye
dalek kudo/nom: 470be03 | lizmat++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
Bump NQP_REVISION
moritz but the bottom type type-checks against all types
Nil/Failure do not
CurtisOvidPoe Though I still want “my Rat $foo = 3;” to work ;)
jnthn CurtisOvidPoe: Is it specifically the literals case that bothers you?
moritz CurtisOvidPoe: I don't think you'll be successful with that
lizmat jnthn: rakudo is now on MoarVM HEAd
jnthn CurtisOvidPoe: What if it was my Rat $foo = sub-that-returns-int() ?
lizmat: Cool, Inline::Perl5 built fine for you with HEAD? 10:20
lizmat yup and tested ok
CurtisOvidPoe For me, it’s the literal case, yes. Though I see your point about return types and the confusion that could cause.
lizmat there's only one spectest fail now in: t/spec/S32-num/power.t
but it feels related to recent roast changes
jnthn CurtisOvidPoe: The WAT from trying to be special about literals is that people trying stuff out with a literal value can get a surprise when they replace it with some computation that produces such a value. That is, we'd break "you can think of computations as reducing to values". 10:22
masak I think people's intuitions are led wrong because they expect "integers embed into rationals" etc from math to translate into subtyping relationships in Perl 6
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masak m: say Real ~~ Complex 10:23
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«False␤»
masak but the subtyping relationships in Perl 6 for the numeric types express something other than that.
CurtisOvidPoe Fair enough. I’ll crawl back into my hole now :) 10:24
geekosaur this stuff is why numeric literals in Haskell are polymorphic --- which leads to people becoming confused when they replace the literal with a function, yeh
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timotimo CurtisOvidPoe: did you see the helpful error message you get when you have a literal of the wrong kind? 10:24
geekosaur there aren't any good solutions; once again every DWIM comes with a WAT, and all of them suck one way or another
jnthn suspects there's no perfect answers here, you just pick your trade-offs 10:25
CurtisOvidPoe What does “WAT” stand for?
masak I have a great deal of sympathy for the DWIM contingency, even though I switched allegience years ago
CurtisOvidPoe: it's not an acronym 10:26
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masak CurtisOvidPoe: only an interjection, like a panicked "WHAT!?" 10:26
jnthn CurtisOvidPoe: www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat is the origin
geekosaur reference to an Internet meme where someone was so startled by a ridiculous assertion they misspelled "what?!"
CurtisOvidPoe Thanks.
jnthn Or afaict, the origin in programming language circles.
geekosaur it was around before that, was making the rounds on tumblr etc. 10:27
jnthn Basically an amusing lightning talk on well-intentioned language features causing surprises :)
geekosaur: ah, OK :)
Roamer`_ hm, am I doing something wrong? www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6....36587.html says that we should "use 6.c" instead of "use v6.c", but my Rakudo doesn't seem to understand that; 2016.01.1 and moar-nom both say "Undeclared routine: use"
geekosaur sounds like you're missing a semicolon somewhere before that maybe
Roamer`_ geekosaur, perl6 -e 'use 6.c' complains about it 10:28
10:28 Roamer`_ is now known as Roamer`
jnthn m: use 6.c; 10:28
camelia rakudo-moar d68c30: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/WDwZdcBv2F␤Undeclared routine:␤ use used at line 1␤␤»
jnthn m: use v6.c;
camelia ( no output )
geekosaur hrrr
jnthn You need the v there, no? :)
Roamer` jnthn, that's what I thought, but somebody said I didn't, so I tried...
moritz Roamer`: don't believe everything yary writes :-)
geekosaur oh
yary confusing use with META6.json? 10:29
lizmat afk for a few hours&
moritz though it's a bit sad we can't use the same syntax in both
peteretep Does pmurias hang out here? 10:30
moritz peteretep: often, but not always
peteretep under that nick?
moritz yes
peteretep Thanks :-) 10:31
moritz irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/search/?ni...ias&q= :-)
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Roamer` BTW (and I guess you guys may be getting this all the time) what's the preferred migration path from META.info to META6.json? Create a META6.json copy of META.info, file an ecosystem PR to switch, then remove META.info? 10:33
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RabidGravy Roamer`, some variant like that 10:37
Roamer` RabidGravy, thanks 10:38
|Tux| <drumroll> 10:40
test 21.755
test-t 11.750
csv-parser 50.024
</drumroll>
NEAT!
stmuk_ who can I email about talking at GPW? 10:42
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timotimo stmuk_: probably moritz 10:49
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masak |Tux|: something improved greatly? 10:53
|Tux| ask lizmat
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masak lizmat: something improved greatly? :) 10:53
masak suspects a lizmat++ is in order
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|Tux| lizmat++ 10:54
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dalek osystem: 3f5c49c | (Naoum Hankache)++ | META.list:
add Acme::Cow to ecosystem
 11:49
osystem: 2bae951 | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #148 from hankache/patch-1

add Acme::Cow to ecosystem
11:52 wamba left
ralo perl6: 'a,a,a' ~~ /a+ % ','/ 11:58
camelia ( no output )
ralo perl6: say 'a,a,a' ~~ /a+ % ','/
camelia rakudo-moar 470be0, rakudo-jvm f99bdb: OUTPUT«｢a,a,a｣␤»
ralo perl6: say 'a,a,a,' ~~ /a+ % ','/
camelia rakudo-moar 470be0, rakudo-jvm f99bdb: OUTPUT«｢a,a,a｣␤»
ralo this seems contrary to what is described in the regex docs: doc.perl6.org/language/regexes#Modi...ntifier:_% 11:59
hankache m: 'a,a,a' ~~ /a+ % ','/ 12:00
camelia ( no output )
hankache m: say 'a,a,a' ~~ /a+ % ','/
camelia rakudo-moar 470be0: OUTPUT«｢a,a,a｣␤»
ralo the string with the trailing ',' should not match. or am I wrong? 12:01
jnthn It didn't match the training , 12:02
yoleaux 03:04Z <raiph> jnthn: with apologies for .tell'ing you but just an fyi, for anyone reading this, 2 days, no comments/answer for stackoverflow.com/questions/3524652...ns-pointer (I don't feel equipped to answer it)
DrForr It matches 'a,a,a', so yes, it should. It'll also match 'a,a,aBOOGER'.
jnthn But the regex wasn't anchored to the start/end
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jnthn m: say 'a,a,a,' ~~ /^ a+ % ',' $/ 12:03
camelia rakudo-moar 470be0: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
jnthn m: say 'a,a,a' ~~ /^ a+ % ',' $/
camelia rakudo-moar 470be0: OUTPUT«｢a,a,a｣␤»
ralo I see. sorry, my mistake 12:04
DrForr No worries.
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Ven hi, #perl6 12:21
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pmurias Ven: hi 12:24
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lizmat [Tux]: is that before or after the NQP bump? if before, yes, than it's most likely my fault. If after, it also could be jnthn's fault :-) 12:29
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|Tux| check yourself, I built arounf 11:30 MET 12:30
s/nf/nd/ 12:31
lizmat ok, that's after the bump 12:32
perhaps we were both responsible then :-) 12:33
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jnthn just fixed leaks :) 12:36
Though less memory pressure can help all kinds :)
pmurias it's great that the individual improvements actually combine to improving more complex brenchmark :) 12:39
* benchmarks
timotimo well, leaked memory is mostly inert, rather than actively hindering performance "directly" 12:41
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moritz it leads to more allocations instead of reuse 12:42
(allocation from the OS, that is)
timotimo right, but that's comparatively cheap 12:43
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timotimo as opposed to having to sweep over unhelpful objects via the GC, for example 12:43
stmuk_ if anyone has got edit access to rosettacode.org/wiki/Image_noise#Perl_6 the libSDL2 reference is now SDL2 12:46
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timotimo oi! this is terrible! 12:47
stmuk_ and it should use SDL2::Raw :)
timotimo especially since you can literally just create a buffer instead and pass it into sdl to be rendered
github.com/timo/SDL2_raw-p6/blob/m...pl#L63-L88 - here's an example with cairo 12:48
but all you need to do is make sure the mode is proper
lizmat m: use nqp; my %h = a => 42; if nqp::getattr(%h,Map,q/$!storage/) -> $storage { say nqp::atkey(nqp::decont($storage),"a") } # timotimo jnthn: there's no way to get rid of the decont there, is there?
camelia rakudo-moar 470be0: OUTPUT«42␤»
timotimo i don't know, but decont is extremely cheap if it's not actually needed, because spesh knows how to get rid of it 12:49
(that is, if the type of the thing is stable and spesh can figure that out)
(which in this case it might not be able to)
peteretep pmurias: hi 12:51
pmurias: if TPF don't give you the JS grant, please get in contact with me
timotimo i'm not sure, lizmat :(
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timotimo do attributes actually have a container to go with them? 12:52
lizmat no, I guess it's part of the code gen of the if on a nqp type of thing 12:53
moritz lizmat: you could do -> \storage { } in the singature, no?
timotimo ooooh 12:54
good point, moritz, that sounds sensible
lizmat moritz++ # /me not awake yet
m: use nqp; my %h = a => 42; if nqp::getattr(%h,Map,q/$!storage/) -> \storage { say nqp::atkey(storage,"a") } # moritz++
camelia rakudo-moar 470be0: OUTPUT«42␤»
timotimo also not awake yet 12:55
that'll also save us allocating a scalar container <3
lizmat sees another round of optimizations coming up 12:56
timotimo ooooh
12:56 sufrostico left
moritz mostly harmless 12:57
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pmurias peteretep: hi 13:00
dalek p: b223c44 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/nqp-runtime/ (2 files):
[js] Add a $to_bool to hashes rather then special casing them.
 13:02
p: 412c477 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/nqp-runtime/array.js:
[js] Make nqp::bindpos work with negative indexes.
p: 7991bdb | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (3 files):
[js] Stop wrapping js Arrays on method calls.
p: eedc255 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (2 files):
[js] Stop passing raw Arrays to nqp::deserialize.
p: c0eed50 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/nqp-runtime/reprs.js:
[js] Rename object to obj everywhere instead of using an obj/object mix.
p: d003e33 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (5 files):
[js] Avoid special casing Array. Make nqp::radix* ops return NQPArrays.
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dalek p: 48af163 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/nqp-runtime/array.js:
[js] Implement nqp::atpos_n and nqp::atpos_s with indexes out of bounds.
 13:15
p: 12dd2e9 | (Pawel Murias)++ | t/nqp/59-nqpop.t:
Test nqp::atpos_i, nqp::atpos_n, nqp::atpos_s access with indexes out of bounds.
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dalek p: d652e27 | (Pawel Murias)++ | t/nqp/59-nqpop.t:
Test nqp::atpos_i, nqp::atpos_n, nqp::atpos_s with negative indexes.
 13:24
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dalek ar: ca23d40 | (Steve Mynott)++ | ports/darwin_dmg/ (4 files):
fix icon placement in dmg and tweak docs and filenames
 13:39
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stmuk_ sergot: can you take a look at github.com/sergot/openssl/pull/18 when you get a minute please? 14:08
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lizmat timotimo jnthn: something seriously off with optimization of named parameters: 14:10
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lizmat m: class A { multi method a($a) { }; multi method a($a,:$B!) { }; multi method a($a,$b) { } }; my $a = A.new; $a.a(42) for ^10000; say now - INIT now 14:10
camelia rakudo-moar 470be0: OUTPUT«0.0062036␤»
lizmat m: class A { multi method a($a) { }; multi method a($a,:$B!) { }; multi method a($a,$b) { } }; my $a = A.new; $a.a(42,:B) for ^10000; say now - INIT now 14:11
camelia rakudo-moar 470be0: OUTPUT«0.33642852␤»
lizmat m: class A { multi method a($a) { }; multi method a($a,:$B!) { }; multi method a($a,$b) { } }; my $a = A.new; $a.a(42,666) for ^10000; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar 470be0: OUTPUT«0.00866823␤»
lizmat named parameter is 40x slower ?
14:12 NZKindest joined
moritz yes 14:12
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moritz iirc named params are not part of the toplogical sorting 14:12
and only count as constraints 14:13
timotimo i wonder why the dispatch cache doesn't handle that?
moritz because hard, I suspect 14:14
jnthn Well, and because slwoing down all the common cases by making the cache a bunch more complex isn't so desirable 14:15
You're getting a double blow there too; the stuff in the cache is inlinable by spesh
lizmat but putting such a penalty on something like %h<a>:exists ? 14:16
[Coke] nine++ # merging back to nom 14:17
jnthn lizmat: That's the wrong way to look at it
We don't put a penalty on it. That's the *normal* unoptimized performance of multi-dispatch. 14:18
lizmat jnthn: in the setting we use a :SINK to optimize native splice, but at that cost, I wonder whether removing it wouldn't be a better choice
jnthn Well, depends how big the array is
Also
You're comparing a routine that does nothing
But splice doesn't do nothing
brrt good * #perl6 14:19
lizmat well... a simple benchmark shows that %h<a>:exists is 100x slower than %h.EXISTS-KEY("a") 14:21
that feels very wrong to me 14:22
jnthn I suspect we may end up re-writing postcircumfix calls in Optimizer.nqp
lizmat well, perhaps...
jnthn If there's no overloads imported.
lizmat anyway, I was just blown away by the difference
jnthn Yeah...well, every single operator application is a postiional multi-dispatch 14:25
So we've optimized them pretty heavily.
I'd be nice to handle the nameds better. 14:26
But as moritz noted...it's some effort :)
Though slowing down the cache lookups now is a bit less of an issue on Moar 14:27
Because we eliminate the cache lookups during spesh in good cases anyway
And spesh is already smart-ish about nameds 14:28
(In some cases it rewrites named argument passes to positional ones.)
(At a low enough level you can't actually catch it :)) 14:29
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moritz wonders if a special case for one named argument would give a good balance between performance and complexity 14:32
sergot stmuk_: yes, of course :)
jnthn moritz: Very possibly
moritz like, have a special slot for a single required named in the method cache, and store the name there
brrt can't we lower single required nameds into positional 14:33
timotimo we have code to do that, but apparently it doesn't trigger there
moritz brrt: there might be several candidates with different single required named
sergot stmuk_: do the tests pass?
brrt good point 14:34
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[Coke] t/04-nativecall/13-union.t failing on OS X 14:45
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dalek kudo/nom: e7ccc99 | lizmat++ | src/core/Hash.pm:
Scrape a few % off of Hash.DELETE-KEY

  - don't bother with the :SINK candidate, the current overhead kills it
  - don't bother allocating storage if there is none yet
  - don't bother getting value if the key isn't there		 14:46
Roamer` hm, do any of the package management tools - zef, panda, etc - understand some GitHub tag format so that I can install a specific tagged version of a module?
[Coke] seems fine when run by hand, though.
lizmat [Coke]: fwiw, make test is flawless for me
timotimo Roamer`: none of them do yet. but it might not be very difficult to add :)
Roamer` I know the ideology is "always use the latest one", just curious how should I tag my releases so that people can install earlier ones (or stable ones) if they want to
timotimo, I might actually try to do that, yes 14:47
maybe not right now
timotimo the ideology is actually "you can specify the exact version your code needs and we'll get that for you"
[Coke] lizmat: aaaaand it's not repeatable. ah well
timotimo but we're not there yet, sadly
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Roamer` timotimo, right, yes, sorry, I misspoke there... yes, I know about the version in the identity 14:47
timotimo ;) 14:48
14:48 adu left
[Coke] uses a perl6 snippet to randomly add combining chars to his chat blurb at work, and has gotten one person to ask how he did that so he could show them some perl 6. 14:48
timotimo hah, nice. 14:49
Ven pmurias: what's this for? github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/412c47793d
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Ven nqp: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a[-1]; 14:50
14:50 camelia left
Ven oh. whoops. 14:50
timotimo probably has to be nqp::list(1, 2, 3);
and probably also has to be nqp-m:
Ven :( sorry, camelia
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timotimo :S 14:52
moritz nqp: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say(@a[-1]);
Ven nqp-m: my @a = nqp::list(1, 2, 3); say @a[-1];
oh yea. no implicit () as wel.
well*
timotimo oh, yes
that bites me all the time
flussence \nqp: ought to be an alias for nqp-m:, like perl6: is, imho
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Assignment ("=") not supported in NQP, use ":=" instead at line 2, near " 1, 2, 3; "␤ at gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:521 (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:panic:105)␤ from <unknown>:1 (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/nqp…»
..nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)»
..nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«Can't exec "./rakudo-inst/bin/nqp-p": No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 206.␤exec (./rakudo-inst/bin/nqp-p /tmp/tmpfile) failed: No such file or directory␤Server error occurred! Closing Link: ns1.niner.name (Quit: camelia)␤Lost connect…»
14:53 ChanServ sets mode: +v camelia
camelia nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«Can't exec "./rakudo-inst/bin/nqp-p": No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 206.␤exec (./rakudo-inst/bin/nqp-p /tmp/tmpfile) failed: No such file or directory␤#perl6 <Ven> nqp-moarvm: my @a = nqp::list(1, 2, 3); say @a[-1];␤Lost connection…» 14:53
timotimo i just want to put a debug statement in, why do i have to do it properly? :P
camelia ..nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Assignment ("=") not supported in NQP, use ":=" instead at line 2, near " 1, 2, 3; "␤ at gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:521 (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:panic:105)␤ from <unknown>:1 (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/nqp/lib/nqp…»
..nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)#␤# There is insufficient memory for the Java Runtime Environment to continue.␤# pthread_getattr_np␤# An error report file with more information is saved as:␤# /tmp/jvm-20627/hs_error.log␤»
timotimo what even ...
moritz nqp-m: my @a := [1, 2, 3]; say(@a[-1]);
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«3␤»
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timotimo i never knew we had that 14:53
nige1 hi o/
14:54 apiw joined
nige1 I need a bit of help with something 14:54
I'm developing a daily email - called "sixfix" - a daily dose of perl 6 14:55
the catch is you need to answer a question to get your next "fix"
timotimo oh that's neat 14:56
nige1 It is in early beta state at the moment and I need early adopters who may be able to give feedback on questions / answers - before they reach a more general audience
timotimo also, daily is quite a challenge to keep up for a long time
nige1 indeed 14:57
i've only done a few days and its a challenge
maybe weekly is more sustainable
moritz nige1: I'm happy to review the list; I don't know if I'm motivated to let the mails dribble to me
nige1 ok cheers moritz
timotimo we also haven't done anything big with the perlhex account 14:58
twitter account*
moritz (for the record, I like the idea. I just don't think I'm in the target audience)
nige1 sec bbiab
flussence I'd suggest operate it as if it were daily but release them weekly; that way you have a massive buffer whenever you hit writer's block ;)
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nige1 yes - thanks flussence - good suggestion 15:00
perlpilot sixfix sounds like something that would work better as a webapp/game
[Coke] I am happy to give the keys to perlhex to someone who will do something with it. I only very occasionally dabble with twitter.
15:00 NZKindest left, Actualeyes left
timotimo give the keys to ... everyone! 15:00
on the other hand ... if every perl6 dev has the key, bystander effect will activate 15:01
[Coke] no, that's a bad idea. :)
actually, maybe it's not a bad idea. i actually don't know
MadcapJake [Coke], I'd be happy to post articles and such with it
nige1 if you would like to help curate/preview the sixfix questions / answers please email me at nige (at) nigelhamilton.com - and can give you early access 15:02
timotimo hm. is perlhex really something to post articles with? 15:03
MadcapJake Something along the lines of these other PL accounts: twitter.com/MadcapJake/lists/progr...-languages
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[Coke] timotimo: it's been dead for months, we can do whatever we want with it. 15:03
nige1 moritz, can organise bulk dose of sixfix - no problems there ;-)
15:03 domidumont left
MadcapJake timotimo, more like tidbits about happenings in the community, a new article, an interesting convo, a new module release, a new optimization in rakudo, etc. 15:04
pmurias Ven: negative indexes on arrays is likely something that should be removed from nqp (and is likely just cargo culted from parrot)
MadcapJake (that's at least what I would like to see and have been thinking of doing)
moritz MadcapJake: that would be very nice; then the curators of the p6weekly would just have to follow it :-)
MadcapJake moritz, xD 15:05
Ven pmurias: ah; okay :). I didn't know nqp had that – was surprised, because 6 doesn't.
timotimo MadcapJake: i definitely won't stand in your way! :)
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MadcapJake Well I'd be willing to take over p⬢ if [Coke] is looking to keep the account active, otherwise I'll start a new one 15:06
MadcapJake looks at account and sees the intent is different 15:07
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[Coke] "was" . :) 15:07
lizmat scratches an optimization idea that didn't work out 15:08
MadcapJake heh
hoelzro morning #perl6!
lizmat hoelzro o/
hoelzro howdy lizmat!
MadcapJake tries to think of something as clever as "p⬢"
[Coke] note that the last tweet was a year+ ago.
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[Coke] grabbed the creds in case the team wanted to do somethign with it. 15:09
timotimo a year+ or a year⬢?
moritz p6⌣
MadcapJake notices there is a @perlsix that has never tweeted...
hoelzro MadcapJake: what's wrong with using p⬢? 15:10
you can always change the intent =) 15:11
hoelzro is invested because he helped come up with the name ;)
MadcapJake hoelzro, totally fine with it! Thought that maybe others wanted to keep it up as a code snippet account
moritz MadcapJake: just /msg [Coke] and ask for the credentials
[Coke] moritz: we're working on it. :) 15:12
hoelzro I guess the whole "hex" pun fits with tips and tricks better
moritz [Coke]: ok, great
geekosaur (just as long as it's not like @crawlcode >.> )
hoelzro is there a way to create a Perl 6 subclass of an NQP class? 15:15
moritz nope
hoelzro I figured out
er
I figured not
thanks for confirming, moritz!
moritz but you can consume NQP roles from Perl 6 classes, iirc
hoelzro I'll probably just need to figure out a way for NQP methods to call Perl 6 code 15:16
moritz $code()
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moritz or call a method with a fixed name on a Perl 6 object 15:16
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hoelzro yeah, that'll do 15:17
thanks!
15:17 prammer joined
hankache does anyone remember cowsay? 15:18
hoelzro hankache: yes!
hankache hoelzro then github.com/hankache/Acme-Cow needs your PR 15:19
:)
Roamer` OK, a couple more stupid module style questions :) I noticed Test::Meta declares "module Test::Meta:ver<...>:auth<github:...>"... is it considered a good practice to do that? And, hm, S22 says to use directly :0.2.1, while Test::Meta has :ver<0.2.1>... which one's better? :) 15:22
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masak is delighted to see a bunch of new names on the channel 15:23
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Roamer` (oof, of course, Test::Meta has :ver<0.0.3>, 0.2.1 is what I intend to use for the next bunch of pushed commits to Serialize::Naive) 15:28
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MadcapJake is there anyway to declare multiple same-named classes in a test file? I tried just enblockenating them but still getting redeclaration error 15:32
jnthn my 15:33
MadcapJake oh xD
moritz oh my :-) 15:34
hankache so is nom still considered the bleeding edge branch? 15:35
lizmat hankache: yes
tadzik why is Cow in Acme? I thought Acme is for useless stuff :P
hankache thanks lizmat 15:36
tadzik i didn't know where to put it :)
jnthn
.oO( ProductionReady::Cow :P )
hankache hehe
well cow needs your help 15:37
i added a camelia template but i reckon it needs a bit of tweaking 15:38
and the binary is 'cow-say' so it doesn't interfere with the initial one 15:39
perigrin tadzik: have you ever seen a cow actually do any work? 15:40
hankache plus we get to use kebab casing and annoy everyone else ;)
perigrin they just sorta sit there turning grass into methane.
Roamer` perigrin, hm, I was going to accuse you of not seeing many "Milka" chocolate ads recently, but then again, your point still stands, they don't actually do much in the ads, either 15:42
*not having seen, pfth
hankache one can do alot with methane..... :P 15:43
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stmuk_ sergot: it fixes os x tests and they still pass linux (despite what travis said) 15:47
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jnthn reads recent backlog and starts pondering making beef kebabs... 15:48
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stmuk_ pancakes surely? 15:49
DrForr Today's Culture Ship Name: GOU Pancake Day. 15:50
Roamer` visualizes beef kebab pancakes and... quite likes it, in fact.
sergot stmuk_++: merged, thanks a lot! :) 15:52
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stmuk_ sergot: np 15:53
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MadcapJake any ideas why an attribute would be empty inside of a method but when you access it outside of the method, it's all there... 16:04
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MadcapJake this attribute is declared in a role, i should add 16:05
(as is the method)
masak MadcapJake: golf it and show it on camelia?
MadcapJake wait, i think i know what i've done... :) 16:07
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MadcapJake how do you take a hash and turn it into named parameters for a method? 16:11
i tried %h.pairs.Slip and !%h but they both still come out as positional params 16:14
ugexe .method(|%hash)
MadcapJake oops, i meant, i tried that
|%h still gives me positional params error
16:14 musiKk joined
ugexe something is off with your class or hash then 16:14
gfldex MadcapJake: can you provide the Signature of that method?
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MadcapJake gfldex, «method context(*%ctx) {...}» 16:17
and I get «Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2» 16:18
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gfldex m: sub f(*%h){ say %h.perl }; my %h = <a b> Z=> (1,2); f(|%h) 16:19
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«{:a(1), :b(2)}␤»
gfldex m: sub f(*%h){ say %h.perl }; my %h = <a b> Z=> (1,2); f(%h) 16:20
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤ in sub f at /tmp/UVQKKkS0mU line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/UVQKKkS0mU line 1␤␤»
MadcapJake doing «|%hash» actually gets me a different error «Attempted to push to Nil.»
so i'm looking in the wrong place for the bug
16:22 kurahaupo left
gfldex MadcapJake: did you try --ll-exception ? 16:22
sjn \o 16:24
MadcapJake gfldex, i figured it out, was a private attr and I specified a setter but that setter was inadvertently returning Nil when called as a setter 16:25
dalek osystem: eefe61e | (Peter Pentchev)++ | META.list:
Switch to META6.json for Serialize::Naive.
osystem: 2b1fce1 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #149 from ppentchev/ppentchev-meta6-serialize-naive

Switch to META6.json for Serialize::Naive.
MadcapJake when called as a *getter*
16:29 perlpilot joined
hankache why is everyone switching to META6.json? anything wrong with META.info? 16:30
[Coke] sees jnthn making beef kebabs and regrets his pork rind snack! 16:31
japhb hankache: Apparently they never META6 they didn't like
hankache hahahahaha 16:32
japhb apprently it's too 6xy and they know it
japhb :-D 16:33
stmuk_ pl6anet.org/drop/Rakudo_2016-01-RC0.dmg
thats a R* binary installer which seems to work on OS X 10.9 and 10.11
16:33 autarch left
hankache stmuk_++ 16:34
lizmat hankache: using META6.json will allow for uploading to CPAN
stmuk_ hmmm I should put star in the name 16:35
hankache lizmat i do like the current way of doing things, github & travis etc.. ;( 16:36
am i the only one?
lizmat hankache: it's about providing *more* options, not less :-)
dalek ar: d210150 | (Steve Mynott)++ | ports/darwin_dmg/package_darwin_dmg.pl:
name as windows msi
16:36 autarch joined
lizmat some people aren't happy with github, for that matter 16:36
we lost a few modules in the ecosystem that way already :-( 16:37
hankache lizmat if you say so. I never used CPAN so I'll take your word for granted 16:38
it would be fun to do some statistics about People using Perl 6
MadcapJake first round of tests ported to github.com/MadcapJake/Test-Lab 16:40
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MadcapJake If anyone hasn't seen it yet, I'm porting githubengineering.com/scientist/ to Perl 6 16:42
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timotimo www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KcX9wHjVTM - i'd like someone to implement this :) 16:57
moritz m: say 'a꣭'.chars 16:59
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz m: given "a\c[COMBINING DEVANAGARI LETTER NA]" { .say; say .elems } 17:00
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«a꣭␤1␤»
ilmari m: say "foo".elems # that might not be what you meant 17:02
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«1␤»
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perl6newbee hi 17:06
how can I coerce a Str to Numeric?
timotimo m: say "1234".Numeric
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«1234␤»
perl6newbee :-)
lizmat m: dd +"42"
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«42␤»
lizmat m: dd 666, +"42" 17:07
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«666␤42␤»
lizmat hmmmm...
m: say "abc".perl
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«"abc"␤»
lizmat m: dd "42", +"42" 17:08
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«"42"␤42␤»
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perl6newbee thanks. that helps. but if the variable is a string I get an exception. how can I check that there is a numeric scalar? $response ~~ Numeric doesn not work 17:16
gfldex m: my $s = "1234"; say so $s ~~ /\d+/; 17:17
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«True␤»
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timotimo that's not generic enough 17:18
i'd suggest using "try"
m: say try { +"hello" } // "oh no"
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«oh no␤»
timotimo m: say try { +"99999" } // "oh no"
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«99999␤»
perl6newbee nice, but the string can be Numeric. So, Rat und Int is possible
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perl6newbee timotimo thx! 17:19
timotimo you're welcome!
gfldex perl6newbee: you are mixing input validation with coercion. That may not work well. 17:20
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perl6newbee That's true, but in this case I see no alternatives. See: github.com/pnu/io-prompt/blob/mast...pt.pm#L165 17:22
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perl6newbee w00t. it works! thx 17:36
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dalek c: f9387b7 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/exceptions.pod:
fix typo
 17:43
c: 861648f | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/exceptions.pod:
show that try blocks are normal blocks (timotimo++ for the nice idiom)
timotimo :3 17:45
dalek osystem: 2204e22 | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
Add Oyatul

See github.com/jonathanstowe/Oyatul
RabidGravy Another yak bites the dust 17:47
Hotkeys is there a shorter way to zip two sequences flat without calling flat on them
m: say (flat (0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 2 1 1 1 3 2 4 3 7)␤»
Hotkeys for example
er the flat should be outside the parens for 1 byte savings 17:48
timotimo you can abuse that say will only give you the first few items in a list so you can leave out the [^10] btw 17:49
m: say 1, 1, *+* ... *
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
timotimo damn you! :D
m: say (0, 1, *+* ... *) Z (1, 1, *+* ... *)
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
timotimo m: say flat (0, 1, *+* ... *) Z (1, 1, *+* ... *)
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 3 5 5 8 8 13 13 21 21 34 34 55 55 89 89 144 144 233 233 377 377 610 610 987 987 1597 1597 2584 2584 4181 4181 6765 6765 10946 10946 17711 17711 28657 28657 46368 46368 75025 75025 121393 121393 196418 196418 317811 317811 514229 514229 832…»
timotimo there we go.
all you need to know is it doesn't infiniloop when you say it 17:50
when you put or print it, however, that's a different story
Hotkeys right
I just was wondering if there was a way to not use flat()
but still get a flat list
Hotkeys is trying to find alternate solutions to a golf problem
this is my current shortest 17:51
m: my &f = {(0,1,1,4,{$^b;$^d;3*$^c-$^a}...*)[0..$_]}; say f(10)
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 1 1 4 3 11 8 29 21 76 55)␤»
Hotkeys the lucas-nacci numbers
timotimo m: say '.head($_)'.chars; say '[0..$_]'.chars 17:52
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«9␤7␤»
timotimo too bad
17:53 apiw left
b2gills m: #`(Hotkeys: my shortest was 57 bytes) say {([-1,1],[0,2],{[$^a[0,1]Z+$^b[1,0]]}...*)[1..$_+1]»[0]}(10) 17:55
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 1 1 4 3 11 8 29 21 76 55)␤»
Hotkeys that's cray 17:56
I like my 42 byte count
b2gills Hotkeys is reffering to this: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/71465/1147
Hotkeys a fun number
and short
:p
I don't like how I discard those positionals I wish ther was a nicer way
but that's okay
lizmat afk for a few hours& 17:57
b2gills the post was closed or deleted when I tried to post it
Hotkeys weird
man I kind of hate golfing langs 17:58
b2gills m: #`(originally I had) say {flat flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*)).rotor(1=>2,1=>0)[0..$_]}(10)
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 1 1 4 3 11 8 29 21 76 55)␤»
Hotkeys I feel like it ruins the fun of codegolf
ah
I was gonna do
b2gills m: say {flat ((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*)).kv.map({$^b[$^a%2]})[0..$_]}(10) # this was the same length
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 1 1 4 3 11 8 29 21 76 55)␤»
timotimo flat flat? ugh :) 17:59
b2gills The short one I came up with was a translation of the Jelly example
Hotkeys m: {flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))[0,2...2*$_]}(10)
camelia ( no output )
Hotkeys m: say {flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))[0,2...2*$_]}(10)
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55)␤»
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Hotkeys that was gonna be my alternative 17:59
oh wait
whoops
m: say {flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))[^20]
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/7UOMbGM6hx␤Missing block␤at /tmp/7UOMbGM6hx:1␤------> 3 {flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))[^20]7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ statement end␤ statement modifier␤ stateme…»
Hotkeys m: say {flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))(20)
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/mvhiT8jqs1␤Missing block␤at /tmp/mvhiT8jqs1:1␤------> 3y {flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))(20)7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ statement end␤ statement modifier␤ stateme…»
Hotkeys m: say flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))[^20] 18:00
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 2 1 1 1 3 2 4 3 7 5 11 8 18 13 29 21 47 34 76)␤»
Hotkeys oh
I wanted the odd ones
m: say {flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))[1,3...2*$_]}(10)
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(2 1 3 4 7 11 18 29 47 76)␤»
Hotkeys nopes
m: say {flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))[9,2...2*$_]}(18)
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«()␤»
Hotkeys m: say {flat((0,1,*+*...*)Z(2,1,*+*...*))[0,2...2*$_]}(18) 18:01
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584)␤»
Hotkeys uh
I have no idea what I'm doing
I'll stick with my original
I have 5 upvotes on my lucas-nacci answer 18:02
that's the most I'vegotten on a codegolf so far 18:03
b2gills I just up-voted it
Hotkeys tyty
b2gills I keep a tab open on codegolf.stackexchange.com/questio...ort=newest
timotimo stackoverflow.com/questions/352650...and-perl-6 - this here is an interesting thing 18:05
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b2gills Hotkeys: I wrote a program to count the bytes of the currently selected text that I use for CG which you might be interested in: gist.github.com/b2gills/93d1e2aa6583b95315b2 It makes it real quick to find out if I managed to create shorter code. 18:12
Hotkeys oh I've just been using mothereff.in/byte-counter 18:13
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Hotkeys because I'm lazy 18:13
timotimo you know about jnthn's code golf assistant?
one of the example programs for GTK::Simple and supplies and such
Hotkeys I do not 18:14
timotimo it even evaluates your code for you!
and of course it also shows you exactly how many characters your code has
(but it does not have something cool for when your code accidentally infini-loops :( )
Hotkeys lol 18:15
I just write all my code in the repl pretty much
for golf anyway
18:16 RabidGravy joined
Hotkeys again because I'm lazy 18:19
b2gills I have one tab in Tilda that is the rlwrapped REPL and another that I just press up+enter in to get the byte count ( because the last thing I ran was the code that I linked earlier )
Hotkeys neat 18:20
lucs m: say <k d r w b t>.sort({$^a cmp 'w' || $a cmp $^b}); # The sorting function makes no sense, still, why is the undeclared ｢$a｣ not raising an error?
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(k d r b t w)␤»
hoelzro I'm wondering if the REPL should try to detect if it's running under rlwrap, and if so, not display the "use Linenoise, Readline, or rlwrap" message
I'm also wondering if that message should be displayed by default; maybe have a --beginner switch or something
interactive help in the REPL might not be bad either 18:21
hoelzro has spent a lot of time thinking about the REPL lately
b2gills lucs you did declare $a as $^a earlier
lucs b2gills: Nope, as the example evaluated by m: shows. 18:22
b2gills m: { $^a; say $a }("Hello")
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
Hotkeys actually by putting the $^a somewhere
you make a fn that takes $a
lucs Hmm...
Hotkeys m: say {$^a}
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«-> $a { #`(Block|65807976) ... }␤»
Hotkeys I assume $^a has to be the first instance of the thing 18:23
b2gills lucs the code you wrote will put them in the same order if they are on the same side of 'W
Hotkeys m: say {$a;$^a}
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/NtU3N3FkfK␤Variable '$a' is not declared␤at /tmp/NtU3N3FkfK:1␤------> 3say {7⏏5$a;$^a}␤»
Hotkeys yeah
thought so
m: say {$^a;$a}
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«-> $a { #`(Block|68025544) ... }␤»
Hotkeys $^a is like a magic declaration of $a
I didn't actually realize that 18:24
That will let me write shorter things in future maybe
lucs b2gills: Yeah, the sorting itself is irrelevant in my example -- I just wanted something with both $^a and $a.
In conclusion, could we say that this is correct (albeit a bit unexpected) behaviour? 18:25
b2gills It's correct, and the way I would expect it. 18:26
Placeholder parameters confused new Perl 6 programmers regularly though
lucs b2gills: Hmm... Your expectations appear to match the language better than mine :)
I'm not totally new to Perl 6, but to placeholders, yeah, rather. 18:27
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Hotkeys I say again 18:28
I hate golf langs
b2gills perhaps I should have said "confuse programmers new to that feature regularly"
lucs Right :)
b2gills Hotkeys: I'm right there with you, though I think I have occasionally written programs in Perl 6 that beat every language though 18:29
Hotkeys I usually can't beat things like CJam etc.
I don't see the point in trying to write code in a language specifically designed to write short code 18:30
takes all the fun out of it
now that isn't to say I want to golf in java
but yknow
huf not being able to golf in a proglang is a bit like not being able to write poetry in a natural language 18:31
Hotkeys it's more of a "look at this golf lang I designed!" more than anything
huf do i want the instructions for my drain cleaner to be in verse? no
Hotkeys lol
huf but i *do* want *some* things to be in verse, it's fun
Hotkeys right, golfing != good code
but it is fun
well
not good code most of the time 18:32
I quite like my lucas-nacci solution thouhg
perl 6 sequences are one of my fav things
b2gills Hotkeys: here is an example where I beat every language handily codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/66125/1147 18:33
The ... sequence operator does help reduce code by a few bytes. I think I have several CGs where I have three of them in the same code block 18:34
often the shortest way to write something is the way I would write it anyway, except with fewer spaces 18:37
Hotkeys wow
CJam was at 517
harsh
nice solution though 18:39
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timotimo i kind of feel like it'd be all right to add ^... and ^...^ to 6.d 18:50
gfldex m: my @a[5;5]; for @a.values <-> $v { $v = (0..99).pick }; dd @a; for @a[1..4;1..14].values <-> $v { $v = 0 }; dd @a; 18:51
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(:shape(5, 5), [86, 2, 71, 50, 52], [79, 53, 42, 75, 10], [25, 56, 54, 36, 45], [89, 25, 78, 38, 81], [17, 66, 73, 62, 18])␤Partially dimensioned views of arrays not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/sMNQyexl45 line 1␤␤»
gfldex grrr
timotimo yes, rather. 18:52
gfldex m: my @a[5;5]; say @a.elems; 18:54
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«5␤»
18:54 musiKk left
gfldex shouldn't that be a list with 2 elements? 18:54
timotimo er, shouldn't it actually be 25 elements? 18:55
gfldex or 25 if it shouldn't be a list
m: my @a[5;5]; say @a.values.elems;
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«25␤»
timotimo m: my @a[5;5]; say @a.list.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(:shape(5, 5), [Any, Any, Any, Any, Any], [Any, Any, Any, Any, Any], [Any, Any, Any, Any, Any], [Any, Any, Any, Any, Any], [Any, Any, Any, Any, Any])␤»
timotimo humpf.
gfldex how do i get hold of the dimensions of a shaped Array?
timotimo you .shape
what does roast say about shaped array's .elems? 18:56
gfldex m: my @a[5;5]; dd @a.shape;
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«List $shape = $(5, 5)␤»
18:56 addison joined
timotimo it's potentially about "how many things can you get from []-ing 18:56
gfldex what is the expert opinion on @a.elems == @a.values.elems ? 18:57
timotimo well, .values gives you all the values in the shaped array. so i *know* for a fact that it's right
m: my @a[5;5]; say @a[3].perl;
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Partially dimensioned views of arrays not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/zNsKskq00K line 1␤␤»
timotimo ^- if this were implemented, it'd be a good reason for having .elems work that way 18:58
because @a[24] ain't gonna work
gfldex sounds right
m: my @a[5;5]; for @a.values <-> $v { $v = (0..99).pick }; dd @a; for 1..@a.shape[0]-1 -> $x { for 1..@a.shape[1]-1 -> $y { @a[$x;$y] = 0 } }; dd @a; 18:59
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(:shape(5, 5), [56, 19, 91, 32, 2], [1, 77, 83, 25, 52], [49, 68, 85, 59, 23], [10, 69, 91, 16, 66], [2, 3, 92, 41, 24])␤Array.new(:shape(5, 5), [56, 19, 91, 32, 2], [1, 0, 0, 0, 0], [49, 0, 0, 0, 0], [10, 0, 0, 0, 0], [2, 0, 0, 0, 0])␤»
timotimo cute
gfldex for @a[1..4;1..14].values <-> $v { $v = 0 }; # would be much better but is sadly NYI 19:00
for @a[1..4;1..4].values <-> $v { $v = 0 }; # would be much better but is sadly NYI
timotimo yeah ;( 19:01
19:03 leont left
[Coke] stmuk_: the readme should mention that this will ONLY work in /Applications. (~/Applications is another common place to install things.) 19:03
dalek osystem: c82770d | wbiker++ | META.list:
Add new module IO::Prompt
osystem: c911b6e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #150 from wbiker/master

Add new module IO::Prompt
19:03 dolmen left
gfldex m: my @a[5;5]; for @a.values <-> $v { $v = (0..99).pick }; dd @a; for 1..@a.shape[0]-1 { $^x; for 1..@a.shape[1]-1 { @a[$x;$^y] = 0 } }; dd @a;
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(:shape(5, 5), [75, 16, 35, 64, 79], [88, 94, 47, 11, 6], [71, 92, 31, 46, 12], [78, 23, 20, 53, 58], [34, 45, 96, 46, 8])␤Array.new(:shape(5, 5), [75, 16, 35, 64, 79], [88, 0, 0, 0, 0], [71, 0, 0, 0, 0], [78, 0, 0, 0, 0], [34, 0, 0, 0, 0])␤»
stmuk_ [Coke]: yes good point
dalek : 4ab82aa | (Zoffix Znet)++ | misc/SHELTER/io-prompt/META.info:
Remove IO::Prompt from SHELTER

It was been adopted by wbiker: github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/150		 19:04
[Coke] stmuk_++ 19:05
dalek ar: 8090c51 | (Steve Mynott)++ | ports/darwin_dmg/HOW_TO_INSTALL.txt:
needs root apps folder coke++
 19:06
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sortiz \o #perl6 19:07
dalek ar: 4bb9c25 | (Steve Mynott)++ | ports/darwin_dmg/HOW_TO_INSTALL.txt:
hand wave about signing security settings
timotimo m: my @a[5]; for @a.kv -> $k, $v is rw { } 19:08
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Parameter '$v' expected a writable container, but got Any value␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/y3M2F4_Sje line 1␤␤»
timotimo why :<
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timotimo m: my @a[5;5]; for @a.pairs -> $p { $p.value = 0; $p.value = (^99).pick if any(|$p.key) == any(0, 4); }; say @a.perl 19:10
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(:shape(5, 5), [8, 65, 30, 49, 77], [4, 0, 0, 0, 28], [84, 0, 0, 0, 64], [51, 0, 0, 0, 60], [26, 16, 14, 26, 58])␤»
dalek ar: aa89b9c | (Steve Mynott)++ | ports/darwin_dmg/HOW_TO_INSTALL.txt:
lower expectations about GUIness of perl 6
MadcapJake could anyone help me figure out how to do a "default" derived class that the base class's `new` blesses? 19:11
timotimo gfldex: how do you like that code? ^ 19:12
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MadcapJake If I place the Cls::Default before the Cls decl, it says it doesn't know what Cls is, if I place it after, Cls' `new` says it doesn't know what Cls::Default is 19:13
timotimo you can just have a "class Cls { ... }" up front
gfldex timotimo: nice but doesn't fit to codegolf.stackexchange.com/question...t-an-array
timotimo a forward declaration, that is
too long, eh?
ah, it's supposed to do rectangular, not just square 19:14
gfldex i want it to be a complete program, so the init of @a needs to be separated (and come from stdin)
timotimo well, that'd be easy to pull out
it may be shorter code-wise if .kv would give rw containers for the values 19:15
i wonder if it doesn't because of design reasons
gfldex m: my @a[5;6]; for @a.pairs -> $p { $p.value = 0; $p.value = (^99).pick if any(|$p.key) == any(0, @a.shape[1]-1); }; say @a.perl 19:16
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(:shape(5, 6), [93, 25, 31, 56, 20, 81], [96, 0, 0, 0, 0, 40], [35, 0, 0, 0, 0, 68], [3, 0, 0, 0, 0, 94], [46, 0, 0, 0, 0, 37])␤»
MadcapJake what's the difference between fail and die and when would you use each? 19:17
the language/Exceptions page only shows «die» being used
timotimo fail will return a Failure object from the enclosing routine 19:18
perlpilot die is a worse failure :)
timotimo whereas die will immediately throw
moritz still doubts the use case of fail()
MadcapJake actually I might have a good use-case with my current project: github.com/MadcapJake/Test-Lab 19:19
*maybe*
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perlpilot moritz: we seem to use fail in src/core about twice as much as die. 19:21
MadcapJake perlpilot, wow! do the Failures end up arriving at a die sub eventually? 19:22
or where do they go? :P
timotimo when you try to use the Failure object for stuff, it gets thrown 19:23
perlpilot MadcapJake: that is left as an exercise for someone who wants to do more than just a simple ack :)
MadcapJake o_O
timotimo, you can't inspect it at all?
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timotimo no, you can 19:23
definedness and boolness and such all work
and type checks
MadcapJake sweet, that's perfect
moritz perlpilot: yes, because the specs mandate it 19:25
perlpilot: I think all of these use cases could be converted to die in v6.d for example 19:26
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moritz afaict there are two main reasons for fail() 19:26
1) to avoid having exceptions that cross thread boundaries
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moritz 2) to not invalidate a huge parallel computation just by having one data error somewhere 19:27
MadcapJake is this accurate: fail is for when you **don't** want to pass an Exception to CATCH handlers?
moritz my counter point to 1) is that we already catch exceptions in start { } blocks, and rethrow them on Promise.result
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moritz and to 2) is that if your application isn't prepared to handle data erros in a huge parallel computation, it likely isn't prepared to handle them in resulting data structure either 19:28
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llfourn is there a reason Proc::Async doesn't support .new(:in($iohandle)) like Proc does -- NYI? 19:29
MadcapJake the docs utilize the verbiage «throw» and «unthrow»; do these terms have to do with passing execution to CATCH handlers (or exiting the program where there are none)?
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moritz MadcapJake: it's much simpler 19:30
MadcapJake: if &foo fails, you can write my $res = foo()
and there is no exception yet
and only if you use $res without checking it first (for truth or definedness) are you getting an exception 19:31
MadcapJake oh, so like a lazy exception?
timotimo yeah. we call it "unthrown exception" 19:32
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skids To pick a nit, Exception.new is an "unthrown exception" :-) 19:37
gfldex m: my @a[2;2]; @a = 1,2,3,4;
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Assignment to array with shape 2 2 must provide structured data␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/HfN1KuUT9T line 1␤␤»
gfldex is there any short way to assign a flat list to a shaped array?
dalek ar: 7218fc3 | (Steve Mynott)++ | ports/darwin_dmg/HOW_TO_INSTALL.txt:
more tweaking of the final README
 19:39
gfldex i'm silly and don't need the shaped array at all. I just need the shape.
I need the shaped Array without the Array. :)
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skids m: my @a[2;2]; @a.values.cache[*] = 1,2,3,4; @a.perl.say; 19:46
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(:shape(2, 2), [1, 2], [3, 4])␤»
perlpilot skids++ that's neat 19:48
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skids m: m: my @a[2;2]; @a.values.cache = 1,2,3,4; @a.perl.say; # Don't need the slice apparently 19:51
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(:shape(2, 2), [1, 2], [3, 4])␤»
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skids m: my @a[2;2]; eager @a.values[0,1,2,3] = 1,2,3,4; @a.perl.say; 20:02
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(:shape(2, 2), [1, 2], [3, 4])␤»
skids m: my @a[2;2]; eager @a.values = 1,2,3,4; @a.perl.say; # Hrmf
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Seq␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/dtKOj4yVQF line 1␤␤»
skids m: my @a[2;2]; eager @a.values[] = 1,2,3,4; @a.perl.say; # Double Hrmf 20:03
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Seq␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Dwm2mneuvV line 1␤␤»
skids m: my @a[2;2]; eager @(@a.values) = 1,2,3,4; @a.perl.say; # Ahh, makes more sense now. 20:04
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camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Array.new(:shape(2, 2), [1, 2], [3, 4])␤» 20:04
sortiz BTW, I found some contradictions in roast with .elems: github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master...rray.t#L45 seems to expect that @foo.elems returns the number of _assigned_ elements.
b2gills m: sub foo { fail "hello" }; say foo() // "world"; # I prefer fail so that I don't have to use try as often 20:05
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«world␤»
skids sortiz: what's that contradict with? 20:07
b2gills m: my $a = [[67,4,-8,5,13],[9,13,42,4,-7],[1,1,3,-9,29],[16,99,8,77,0]];{.[1..*-2]»[1..*-2] »=»0}($a); say $a.perl 20:08
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«$[[67, 4, -8, 5, 13], [9, 0, 0, 0, -7], [1, 0, 0, 0, 29], [16, 99, 8, 77, 0]]␤»
sortiz skids, In other places, seems to expect the elements of the first dimension, let me check... 20:09
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skids b2gills: problem is the current Failure will spew garbage if it is thrown away unhandled, when it is GCd. 20:10
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sortiz skids, see github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master...hods.t#L11 20:11
skids (There'd be an easy fix of overriding Failure.DESTROY in a subclass but it didn't work last time I tried) 20:12
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skids sortiz: Maybe a difference between fully shaped and partially shaped arrays? 20:13
Though, that second behavior I'm dubious as to the utility of. 20:14
sortiz I don't now, but is in my "things that need clarification" list.
b2gills skids maybe if you had ｢submethod DESTROY { self.defined }｣ in your subclass 20:15
skids (and if you write a test to see that the first dimension is what is being returned, probably the other one should not also be 2)
b2gills: I tried that it kinda blew up. But maybe things are better now.
sortiz skids, I agree. 20:16
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timotimo b2gills: wow, your solution is beautiful 20:17
b2gills I don't know if I want the result to print to STDERR if I don't use it, and it happens to be a Failure
b2gills takes a bow 20:18
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Hotkeys hello I'm back perl friends 20:24
sortiz o/ Hotkeys 20:25
Hotkeys Just had a linguistics midterm 20:26
was ezz
ezpz*
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nemo m: 1 ≠ 2 20:36
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/px2r4VbbCo␤Confused␤at /tmp/px2r4VbbCo:1␤------> 0317⏏5 ≠ 2␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ statement modifier␤ statement…»
nemo hm
Hotkeys don't have those nemo 20:37
at least not yet
same for ≤ ≥
nemo Hotkeys: you guys considered configurable mappings? I guess it could get messy unless the script could define a cheat sheet
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jnthn m: sub infix:<≠>($a, $b) { $a != $b }; say 4 ≠ 3 20:37
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«True␤»
Hotkeys nemo ^^
nemo ah neat
that's really cool. had no idea it was so easy 20:38
jnthn If you stick that in a module and shove "is export" on it, then you can just use that module and have the mappings :)
nemo but why wouldn't it be I guess
Hotkeys yep 20:39
all ops are just functions
some of them have categories slapped on them
like infix or postfix etc.
functions that is 20:40
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sortiz What is the expected way for handling things like "2;4" for indexing? A new kind of object in the Capture? 20:43
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AlexDaniel So I was slightly disappointed by the fact that ｢hyper｣ does not really work, but whatever. So I decided to do some stuff with plain ｢start { }｣ and guess what? “double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x00007f68c3048f90”… that's after like 30 minutes of hard work. I've tried running it several times but it always crashes for one reason or another… :/ The problem is that I don't even know how to golf that down… what can I do? 20:44
skids sub infix:<≠>($a, $b) is prec(:equiv<=>) { $a != $b }; say 4 ≠ 3 + 1 # Not quite THAT easy, you do need to also set precedence. 20:45
moritz and you probably want equiv to ==, not = 20:47
ely-se I mistook it for <=> initially 20:48
skids Oh yes surely :-)
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skids m: sub infix:<≠>($a, $b) is prec(:equiv<==>) { $a != $b }; say 4 ≠ 3 + 1 # hmm. 20:49
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«2␤»
Hotkeys why not equiv to !=
ely-se I also want e̶q̶ 20:50
Hotkeys lol
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Hotkeys how do you even type that 20:50
I can't guess the compose sequence for a combining line like that
ely-se m: sub infix:<e̶q̶>($a, $b) is prec(:equiv<eq>) { $a ne $b }; say '1' e̶q̶ '01' 20:51
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«True␤»
skids Hotkeys: != should work too.
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ely-se Hotkeys: strikethrough combining characters 20:51
skids oh.
m: sub infix:<≠>($a, $b) is equiv<!=> { $a != $b }; say 4 ≠ 3 + 1
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«False␤»
Hotkeys ely-se: I guess I'll look at my compose list
20:52 SCHAAP137 left
Hotkeys I don't think I have a sequence for that 20:52
hm
I'll deal with that later
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jnthn sortiz: [2;4] calls a different multi, postcircumfix:<[; ]>, which is how they're handled 20:55
That is, it's a syntactic distinction 20:56
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sortiz jnthn, and in my Indexable's AT-POS, what can I expect to receive? 20:57
jnthn sortiz: Multiple parameters
One per indice 20:58
sortiz jnthn, thanks!
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sortiz jnthn, a last question: and in ASSING-POS and BIND-POS the new value should be the last if many args? 21:04
*of
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Hotkeys heh 21:05
ASSING
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jnthn The number of times I did that typo... :) 21:05
sortiz: Correct
@a[1;2] = 3 calls @a.ASSIGN-POS(1, 2, 3) 21:06
sortiz But that need an specific signature depending of the dimensions, no? 21:07
Or an *@args, and ask for the last one. 21:10
A little LTA, imo. 21:11
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sortiz And too late for changing to ASSIGN-POS(??:CLASS:D: \new, *@indexes) I suppose. 21:17
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jnthn sortiz: It was fairly deliberately picked 21:17
sortiz: Largely for performance reasons 21:18
sortiz: The overwhelmingly common cases are 2 and 3 dimensions.
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sortiz jnthn, Yes I understand. 21:18
jnthn Which we'll later provide special candidates for in Rakudo's Array/native_array 21:19
But yeah, it's one of those places we picked easy optimizability over convenience.
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jnthn Largely 'cus implementing multi-dim data strucutres won't be that common. 21:20
sortiz The only complication that I see is when $new is typed.
skids Wouldn't (@, $) be able to be added pretty easily, given you'd not end up passing a Positional as an element normally?
jnthn skids: That one fails the "make it perform easily" test. 21:21
It forces construction of something for the @foo
Which in turn forces allocation
skids So the indices aren't already in a Positional post-parse? 21:22
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jnthn No, but compile time isn't what matters, the point is you'd have to construct said positional per indexing 21:23
Most of the time
'cus arrays are normally indexed with dynamic indices, in loops
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skids Wouldn't shallow immutability be able to take care of that? 21:25
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jnthn I don't really see it. 21:25
@foo[$a;$b] can (with a bit more analysis that we do right now) compile into @foo.AT-POS($a, $b) 21:26
If we passed a positional it'd be more like @foo.AT-POS(make-something-positional($a, $b))
Where make-something-positional would need to return something that refers to $a and $b 21:27
skids was thinking ENTER(or whatnot) { make-something-positional }; something-positional[0] = $a; something-positional[1] = $b; @foo.AT-POS(@something-positional) 21:28
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timotimo that'd require a pretty difficult piece of optimization technology 21:29
jnthn skids: Yeah, trouble is that this sneaky bit of storage can easily escape
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jnthn skids: If you don't try to lift it out of a closure, then it's useless for the block of a for loop, since we ENTER it every time. If you do lift, and the closure gets passed to something that runs it on another thread, you're in bother. 21:30
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jnthn So it's not as easy as it looks to do it without getting caught. We likely will do escape analysis in MoarVM in not too long, but the analysis is, as timotimo notes, highly non-trivial. 21:31
skids interesting. Thanks. 21:32
timotimo if, on the other hand, the user writes the code just like that, it's fine. because if the *user* gets caught, that's likely their fault :)
sortiz Indeed, Thank you jnthn.
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lizmat m: my %h = a => 42; %h.pairs[0].value = 666; dd %h # should we consider this a bug or not, jnthn timotimo ? 21:52
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Hash %h = {:a(666)}␤»
lizmat jnthn timotimo: or is it a feature ? 21:53
timotimo seems like a feature to me
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timotimo just today i used a for loop over a multi-dimensional array with .pairs in order to set its values via $p.value 21:53
jnthn lizmat: Feature; it's the hash parallel of things like for @a <-> { } 21:54
lizmat oki
jnthn uh, for @a <-> $x { }
timotimo jnthn: how do we feel about .kv giving you something where you can't write the value?
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jnthn timotimo: It doesn't already? 21:55
timotimo gimme a sec
m: my @a[5]; for @a.kv -> $k, $v is rw { }
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Parameter '$v' expected a writable container, but got Any value␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Cwblq5pyOZ line 1␤␤»
jnthn m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2; for %h.kv -> $k, $v is rw { $v++ }; say %h
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«a => 2, b => 3␤»
timotimo oh, sorry, why was i not saying "array" there 21:56
jnthn Yeah, but that looks like an accident
I'd have thought it'd do the same as with a hash
timotimo good
next step will be doing the eggshell-dance with regards to roast
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jnthn Was gonna be surprised with %foo.kv was busted for that, as I'm sure I've used it a few times :) 21:57
timotimo would it be possible to add a test for that and make that an errata-related thing?
jnthn timotimo: We only need to care for it errata-wise if there's a spectest we *break* by fixing the bug.
timotimo ah
in that case, let me see if something b0rks when i try it
m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; for @a.kv -> $k, $v is rw { }
camelia ( no output )
timotimo ah, only broken for shaped arrays, it seems 21:58
and adding a roast test for it, does that require a fudge for 6.c.1?
jnthn No; 6.c is a tagging
Errata will be a 6.c-errata branch
Off that tag
master is "current work"
Or "candidate for the next language version" 21:59
timotimo i meant adding a new test that ensures it works that way with @a[5]
not for changing an existing test
jnthn Right, that's what I was answering. No need to fudge.
Because the 6.c test suite is the tag
That is, if you want to check an implementation for 6.c compliance, you checkout the 6.c tag
timotimo right-o 22:00
jnthn (Or more likely 6.c-errata in the future)
*sigh* My TL;DR blog post on versioning is going to be longer than the darn versioning doc at this rate :P
22:01 skids left
timotimo hah 22:02
MadcapJake is there a simple syntax for running a block multiple times? Best I can seem to get is `{...}() xx n`
jnthn for ^10 { ... } :P
timotimo i'm having some difficulty with moar's "make install"
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MadcapJake ahh i knew there was something 22:02
jnthn Note that if you wrap that in parens it's an expression too 22:03
timotimo timo 32153 0.0 0.0 0 0 pts/4 Z Feb03 0:00 | \_ [moar] <defunct>
:o
jnthn m: say (for ^10 { 2 * $_ })
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18)␤»
timotimo this is preventing make install from copying over the moar binary properly
and make install still doesn't fail >:(
jnthn :S
MadcapJake just noticed that upto's need syntax adjustments in perl6fe 22:04
jnthn
.oO( what de funct )
AlexDaniel m: say (^10)».&(*×2) # hmmm anything shorter?
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«(0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18)␤»
MadcapJake AlexDaniel, cool never seen that &(...) syntax 22:05
lizmat AlexDaniel: did you verify that Dan Kogai's tests actually pass ?
AlexDaniel: they're failing for me :-( 22:06
AlexDaniel lizmat: I did
lizmat: but holy…
m: my $big-e = 4553535345364535345634543534; say (-2) ** $big-e 22:07
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Numeric overflow␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/xpfA0bGNp0 line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/xpfA0bGNp0 line 1␤␤»
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timotimo anyway. i recently did an update that included a new kernel and graphics card drivers 22:07
AlexDaniel m: use Test; my $xno = X::Numeric::Overflow; my $big-e = 4553535345364535345634543534; throws-like { EVAL qq[(-2) ** $big-e] }, $xno, "-2 ** $big-e";
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT« 1..2␤ ok 1 - code dies␤ ok 2 - right exception type (X::Numeric::Overflow)␤ok 1 - -2 ** 4553535345364535345634543534␤»
timotimo so i might as well just reboot right now
AlexDaniel lizmat: which one fails exactly? 22:08
lizmat t/spec/S32-num/power.rakudo.moar (Wstat: 1536 Tests: 76 Failed: 6)
Failed tests: 13-15, 68-70
AlexDaniel all 6???
jnthn MadcapJake: btw, I'm now a happy Atom user for Perl 6 and various other things :)
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jnthn Largely thanks to your perl6-fe work giving me the nudge to give it another try :) 22:09
MadcapJake jnthn, great to hear!
AlexDaniel lizmat: what OS do you have?
lizmat OS X
AlexDaniel okay, then we have a problem with OS X I guess…
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lizmat 14.5.0 Darwin Kernel Version 14.5.0: Tue Sep 1 21:23:09 PDT 2015; root:xnu-2782.50.1~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64 22:10
AlexDaniel lizmat: so what do you get? Inf or 0?
timotimo 'k 22:11
MadcapJake jnthn: awesome! :D it's a great editor and I think I did a pretty good job with perl6fe
lizmat m: my $xno = X::Numeric::Overflow; my $big-e = 4553535345364535345634543534; say (-2) ** $big-e 22:12
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«Numeric overflow␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/GyOgEl7JHD line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/GyOgEl7JHD line 1␤␤»
lizmat AlexDaniel: ^^^ gives me 1
AlexDaniel lizmat: which is blatantly wrong, isn't it?
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lizmat well, yes, but it doesn't die, so it makes the test fail 22:13
AlexDaniel lizmat: “#?rakudo.moar skip 'big exponents RT #124798: passes on OSX, fails on Linux'” so now I see why this test passes…
lizmat: OK geez, how can I undo the mess? Is there any way to fudge it for OS X only?
MadcapJake I know that azawawi is working on the excellent atom-perl6-editor-tools, but I still plan on continuing with linter-perl6 and autocomplete-perl6 as they'll both take a slightly different angle (in the back and front end, actually)
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jnthn MadcapJake: +1, there's more than one way to do it :) 22:14
lizmat AlexDaniel: not sure :-(
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AlexDaniel lizmat: well… I guess that I'll just fudge these tests and submit a rakudobug… 22:16
jnthn AlexDaniel: Do so, it may be a semantic difference at a level Moar should be hiding. 22:17
lizmat that's perhaps best :-(
jnthn (Most likely that's where we'll want to fix it)
22:17 ely-se left
AlexDaniel such a pity. OK 22:17
jnthn wonders if the next hardware he buys should be from apple, so he can hunt these darn OSX bugs :P
22:17 jpoehls_ left
AlexDaniel
.oO( well, maybe we should ask lizmat to fix these bugs :) )
 22:19
jnthn Well, lizmat++ did give me an OSX shell account at some point in the past so I could track down a horrible memory corruption GC issue that only seemed to show up on OSX... :) 22:20
dalek kudo/nom: b542946 | lizmat++ | src/core/Hash.pm:
Refactor object hashes completely

Before:
   Hash[Any,Any]
   |-- $!keys
   | |-- object
   \-- $!storage
   |-- value
After:
   Hash[Any,Any]
   \-- $!storage
   \-- Pair.new(object,value)
Sample benchmarks showed about 10% less memory usage, and a few percent less CPU usage. More importantly, methods such as kv, pairs, antipairs have become much simpler and faster, whereas methods such as keys/values didn't suffer much
This should also make it easier to subclass Bags/Mixes from object hashes.		 22:21
MadcapJake can you override an object's methods after class instantiation? 22:22
22:22 Celelibi left
lizmat m: my $a = 42 but False; say $a; say ?$a 22:22
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«42␤False␤»
lizmat MadcapJake: ^^^
more elaborately: 22:23
m: my $a = 42 but role { method Bool { False } }; say $a; say ?$a
camelia rakudo-moar e7ccc9: OUTPUT«42␤False␤»
gfldex MadcapJake: see design.perl6.org/S14.html#Run-time_Mixins
22:24 Celelibi joined
MadcapJake sweet, thanks lizmat, gfldex ! 22:24
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lizmat jnthn: that account is still there, should you need access :-) 22:31
jnthn lizmat: Could well do so. It's cheaper than a hex-core trash can :) 22:32
22:32 addison left
jnthn Well, more me it is :D 22:32
lizmat yeah, that, I *have* been thinking of getting one recently
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jnthn Yeah, was buying a couple of small items last night online and noticed they had those on alza.cz...for 120,000 CZK :) 22:33
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jnthn I don't know off the top of my head what that is in euros, but I know it's "enough" :) 22:35
lizmat ~ 4500 euro
jnthn :)
jnthn is curious what the upcoming Intel i7 with 10 cores will cost 22:36
That'd run spectests pretty sweet. Especially if it does turn out to have 25MB of cache on the chip.
diakopter lizmat++ # good refactor 22:37
dalek ast: 2ff9b09 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | S32-num/power.t:
Fudge tests (X::Numeric:Overflow is not thrown on OS X)
AlexDaniel lizmat: done, I think. Thank you 22:38
jnthn
.oO( I should keep this hardware until I make Rakudo fast enough it doesn't matter... :) )
 22:39
diakopter I like the ().list
surely we can cache an empty list somewhere tho :D
AlexDaniel 10 cores, that's pretty sweet. Still far from GPU-like core count though! :D
22:40 leont left
lizmat jnthn: there's already a trash-can with 12 cores, though 22:40
but that would set you back at least 7000 US$
22:42 addison joined
jnthn lizmat: Wow. They didn't even stock that. :) 22:42
AlexDaniel 127500 is a really nice number, by the way 22:43
22:43 pmurias left
flussence saw something recently about a workstation-oriented POWER8 board with insane specs; shame it's a few years late to consider running OS X on... 22:44
(iirc: 12 cores * 8 threads, $4000) 22:45
diakopter flussence: /.
flussence diakopter: figures it'd be on there, I only heard it third- or 4th-hand :) 22:46
diakopter www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=arti...orkstation
timotimo hmm
lizmat: you're probably better at this than i am; can you figure out why .kv on a sized/shaped array will not give us writable values? 22:48
diakopter maybe it does now!
22:50 virtualsue left
jnthn finally blaught: 6guts.wordpress.com/2016/02/09/a-f...atibility/ 22:54
gfldex jnthn++ # for many words
lizmat timotimo: do you know where that method kv lives ? 22:56
Hotkeys Anybody know the best way to get Linenoise on windows?
timotimo yeah, i *think* that one's in List.pm
hoelzro Hotkeys: panda install Linenoise *should* work
timotimo line 474
jnthn Array.pm inside the Shaped or so role
iirc
timotimo the Shaped role doesn't have a method for that i think 22:57
jnthn ah
But wait, .kv on shapeds must be different
Hotkeys hoelzro: apparently not in ecosystem
hoelzro wat
jnthn Oh, I think there's a Rakudo::Internals role maybe
hoelzro that's the error you're getting?
when's the last time you did a panda update?
jnthn That has shared things between native and non-native shaped arrays
Hotkeys ah 22:58
jnthn But the keys of a multi-dim array are indice lists
Hotkeys I didn't realize I needed to do panda update
timotimo oh!
Hotkeys I thought it was just install and go
timotimo i didn't look at RakudoInternals
hoelzro I f'ed up Linenoise in the ecosystem the other night, and MadcapJake had to fly in to my rescue
Hotkeys ah
sortiz lizmat, I *think* that using Any-iterable-methods.pm
timotimo 425 in Rakudo/Internals.pm
Hotkeys hm 22:59
Should this allow me to edit multiline in repl
or is that not a thing
hoelzro it is if you use my experimental branch
(please do, it needs eyes)
Hotkeys lol
how?
timotimo yeah! go hoelzro, go hoelzro, go!
hoelzro www.reddit.com/r/perl6/comments/44...r_testing/
lizmat timotimo: does values or pairs on a shaped array give you writeable containers ?
hoelzro Hotkeys: ↑
Hotkeys ok ty 23:00
I assume i should remove the panda one
hoelzro mhmm
timotimo lizmat: i haven't looked yet, but it's a good idea to do that
m: my @a[5] = 1, 2, 3, 4; for @a.values <-> $a { $a = 5 }; say @a
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«[5 5 5 5 5]␤»
Hotkeys er
hoelzro it's still a WIP; history doesn't work as multiline just yet
Hotkeys panda doesn't have a remove option
timotimo pairs does
m: my @a[5] = 1, 2, 3, 4; for @a.pairs <-> $a { $a.value = 5 }; say @a
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Parameter '$a' expected a writable container, but got Pair value␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/yoyzf9K26n line 1␤␤»
hoelzro and it fails a few roast tetsts
timotimo m: my @a[5] = 1, 2, 3, 4; for @a.pairs -> $a { $a.value = 5 }; say @a
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«[5 5 5 5 5]␤»
timotimo there we go 23:01
only kv doesn't work like that
hoelzro Hotkeys: oh, when I said "mhmm", I meant "blow away your current rakudo install"
Hotkeys lol
alright
timotimo could it be that slip(...) doesn't work right with this?
lizmat timotimo: then I guess it's the slip() in 425 causing the problem
timotimo probably is
Hotkeys why can't panda remove things though 23:02
timotimo m: my $a = 10; my @lol = slip(10, $a); @lol[1] = 99; say $a
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«10␤»
Hotkeys seems like a reasonable thing to do
timotimo m: my $a = 10; my @lol = Slip.new(10, $a); @lol[1] = 99; say $a
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«10␤»
timotimo so the constructor of Slip needs to have an "is raw" or so?
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hoelzro Hotkeys: agreed 23:02
I think it's just NYI
timotimo but Slip just derives its constructor from List
Hotkeys ah
timotimo m: my $a = 10; my @lol := List.new(10, $a); @lol[1] = 99; say $a 23:03
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«10␤»
timotimo oh, and List.new also reconts it seems like?
lizmat m: my $a = 42; sub a(+@a) { $_++ for @a }; a($a); dd $a # timotimo: think this is the underlying issue
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Int $a = 42␤»
timotimo oh, these things
TBH i don't know how exactly these prefixes work in signatures for the most precise details 23:04
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Hotkeys oh wait hoelzero I didn't actually read this 23:07
is this an entire branch of rakudo
lizmat timotimo: I guess the only way around it, would be to no use .map and slip() in that candidate
Hotkeys should pay more attention
lizmat *not
jnthn Rest time...'night, #perl6 23:08
hoelzro Hotkeys: yup =)
lizmat gnight, jnthn!
hoelzro night jnthn
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timotimo hm 23:12
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Hotkeys hoelzro: i.imgur.com/0XXnbY2.png 23:20
:D
hoelzro \o/
does powershell provide a line editor for you to use?
eg. do the arrow keys work?
lizmat timotimo: testing a fix 23:21
Hotkeys kinda
it treats the * lines like any other line
so i can go left and right
but up and down just go through history
hoelzro ok, that's good
well, it's good in that it's consistent with how cmd.exe works =)
I'm going to work on getting history to respect multi-line entries 23:22
Hotkeys I wish I could properly edit the multiple lines but that might be a bigger change than what you're currently doing
like go up and down
or is that what you meant
hoelzro Hotkeys: what exactly do you mean but edit the multiple lines?
like if you enter for ^10 {\n.say\n, hitting up will edit the full for loop? 23:23
Hotkeys i.imgur.com/IwL5QnW.png
lets say I'm hear and see that typo
and want to fix it
s/hear/here
23:24 partly_ left
hoelzro ok 23:24
23:25 partly_ joined
Hotkeys I suppose you might not be able to in powershell 23:25
or cmd
I am trying the python repl right now and it can't either
so that's fine
hoelzro well, I don't want to settle for fine ;) 23:26
Hotkeys I was thinking like
how in python's IDLE
it's a repl but also you can edit like I'm talking about
hoelzro ok
I'll try IDLE
lizmat timotimo: gist.github.com/lizmat/873470fb147185176642 # my line of thought for @a[5].kv 23:27
Hotkeys like if I'm in this situation i.imgur.com/aLu4cG4.png
I can just hit up arrow and I can edit that line
like I'm in any text editor
hoelzro hmm 23:28
well, with a CLI REPL, that'll be a little trickier
Hotkeys this also isn't command line though
yeah
hoelzro I think anything that requires Curses or a GUI belongs in a module that provides an alternative REPL interface
Hotkeys fair enough 23:29
lizmat good night, #perl6!
Hotkeys even this multi-line setup is a good improvement though
so hoelzro++
also night lizmat
hoelzro night lizmat
I think I'll pull a jnthn and summarize my thoughts on the REPL experience 23:30
post it here tomorrow
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diakopter m: use v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6 23:37
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/d0INZGHHZx␤No compiler available for Perl v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6␤at /tmp/d0INZGHHZx:1␤------> 3use v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v6v67⏏5<EOL>␤»
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AlexDaniel indeed, sorry :) 23:40
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Yary Hi all... think I found a bug, this bit of code caused R* 2016.01 to eat up memory and make my 64-bit Windows laptop slow to a crawl: 23:41
perl6 -e "say Real.new == 0"
23:42 BenGoldberg joined
gfldex m: say Real.new == 0 23:42
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 57792 bytes␤»
gfldex m: say so Real.new == 0
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 81920 bytes␤»
BenGoldberg m: say 'alive';
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«alive␤»
revhippie neat
gfldex m: say Real.new() == 0 23:43
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 58000 bytes␤»
BenGoldberg m: say Real.new
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 81920 bytes␤»
BenGoldberg m: say 0.f;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Method 'f' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/c6xtbLn4v7 line 1␤␤»
timotimo lizmat: i was afraid it might end up looking like that ... well, it's probably a bunch faster than what we had so far, which is probably nice
BenGoldberg m: say 0e0;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«0␤»
Yary thanks for the simplification ++BenGoldberg
BenGoldberg m: say 0e0.WHAT; 23:44
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
Yary is still trying to kill the hung Moar instance using the Task Manager
BenGoldberg m: my Real $x; say $x;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«(Real)␤»
BenGoldberg m: my Real $x; say so $x;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«False␤»
FreezerburnV Why is the error "Constraint type check failed for parameter '$precomp-id'" still a thing? :(
BenGoldberg m: my Real $x; $x .= new;
camelia ( no output )
gfldex star: say Real.new()
camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 58768 bytes␤»
BenGoldberg m: my Real $x; $x .= new; say $x;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 81920 bytes␤»
BenGoldberg m: my Num $x; $x .= new; say $x;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«0␤»
BenGoldberg Is Real a role? 23:45
gfldex r: so Real.new
Yary m: say Real.^WHAT
camelia rakudo-jvm f99bdb: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "so " in expression "so Real.new" in sink context (line 1)␤»
..rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/tmpfile:␤Useless use of "so " in expression "so Real.new" in sink context (line 1)␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 81920 bytes␤»
rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/SDQf5yVNJQ␤Cannot use .^ on a non-identifier method call␤at /tmp/SDQf5yVNJQ:1␤------> 3say Real.^WHAT7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ method arguments␤»
BenGoldberg m: role Foo { }; say Foo.new; 23:46
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Foo.new␤»
BenGoldberg m: role Foo { }; say so Foo.new;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«True␤»
gfldex r: say Real.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar b54294, rakudo-jvm f99bdb: OUTPUT«(Real)␤»
Yary m: say Real.HOW
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Perl6::Metamodel::ParametricRoleGroupHOW.new␤»
BenGoldberg Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. 23:47
Yary m: say Real.WHICH
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Real␤»
23:47 vendethiel joined
BenGoldberg m: role Foo [Str $i] { }; say so Foo[2].new; 23:48
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«No appropriate parametric role variant available for 'Foo'␤ in any specialize at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 2600␤ in any specialize at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 2194␤ in any compose at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 2979␤ in any make_pun …»
Yary power cycles laptop
BenGoldberg m: role Foo [Str $i] { }; say so Foo["baz"].new; 23:49
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«True␤»
23:49 jameslen_ left
BenGoldberg m: role Foo [Str $i] { }; say Foo["baz"].new; 23:49
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Foo[Str].new␤»
BenGoldberg m: role Foo [] { }; say Foo[].new; 23:50
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Foo.new␤»
BenGoldberg m: role Foo [] { }; say so Foo[].new;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«True␤»
BenGoldberg m: role Foo [] { }; say Foo[];
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«(Foo)␤»
23:51 cognominal left, cognominal joined
BenGoldberg m: role Foo [] does Numeric { }; say Foo[]; 23:52
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«(Foo)␤»
BenGoldberg m: role Foo [] does Numeric { }; say Foo[].new;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Foo<140521962559784>␤»
BenGoldberg Oooh, now we're getting somewhere!
m: role Foo [] does Numeric { }; say so Foo[].new;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 82944 bytes␤»
23:52 skids joined
BenGoldberg m: role Foo does Numeric { }; say so Foo.new; 23:53
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 58624 bytes␤»
23:53 brabo left
BenGoldberg m: say Numeric.new; 23:53
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Numeric<140265779704888>␤»
BenGoldberg m: say Numeric.new;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Numeric<139842821289016>␤»
BenGoldberg m: say so Numeric.new;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 82944 bytes␤»
revhippie dumb q: what's the number in <> there?
BenGoldberg It's what you get when you read from an uninitilized memory location, methinks. 23:54
revhippie eek!
timotimo lizmat: in any case, thank you for working on this!
BenGoldberg Or it's a pointer address. 23:55
m: say so Numeric;
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«False␤»
BenGoldberg m: say Numeric.HOW; 23:56
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Perl6::Metamodel::ParametricRoleGroupHOW.new␤»
23:56 brabo joined
AlexDaniel m: my $x = Numeric.new; say $x; say $x.WHERE 23:56
camelia rakudo-moar b54294: OUTPUT«Numeric<140157736129848>␤140157736129848␤»
AlexDaniel that's ok
23:57 espadrine joined 23:58 Laurent_R left
AlexDaniel jnthn: please use another delimiter for LTS versions. 2016.02.10 will look like an exact date :) 2016.02-10 is probably fine 23:59

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