svn switch --relocate svn.openfoundry.org/pugs svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ | run.pugscode.org | spec.pugscode.org | paste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs.blogs.com
Set by avar on 16 November 2006.
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Nei ?eval my $age = 7; given $age { when 4..12 { "good age".say } } 01:22
evalbot_r14912 undef
Nei :(
Tene ?eval my $age = 7; given $age { when 4..12 { "good age".say }; default { "omgwtf".say } } 01:25
evalbot_r14912 OUTPUT[omgwtf␤] Bool::True
Nei any neat way to express the intended, avoiding $_? 01:26
Tene ?eval my $f = 7; if ( $f ~~ 4..12 ) { say "it works" } 01:28
evalbot_r14912 undef
Tene Huh. I thought that worked.
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Nei ?eval my $age = 7; given $age { when any 4..12 { "good age".say } } 01:55
evalbot_r14912 OUTPUT[good age␤] Bool::True
Nei :) 01:56
?eval my $age = 3; given $age { when any 4..12 { "good age" } default { "no." } }
evalbot_r14912 "no."
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Nei is there a way to actually fall through in a given/when like in C? 02:16
audreyt "continue" 02:19
Nei ?eval my $age = 7; given $age { when 7 { continue } when 8 { "fail" } } 02:20
evalbot_r14912 undef
Nei switch (7) { case 7:; case 8: printf("fail"); break; } --> fail
audreyt oh, you mean to fallthru without testing 02:22
S04:478
(Note that, unlike C's idea of falling through, subsequent C<when>
conditions are evaluated. To jump into the next C<when> block you
must use a C<goto>.)
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allbery_b hm, as I red that, you can do it with: given $age { when 7 { foo } when any 7..8 { bar } } 02:23
^red^read 02:24
audreyt when 7|8 { bar }
allbery_b or that
Nei these are ugly, because they test twice
audreyt the C treatment, though, is very confusing to me 02:25
timtowtdi I guess...
allbery_b yeh, many folks consider C's no-implicit-break to be a major source of bugs 02:26
(lint used to warn about cases without break unless you put a /*FALLTHROUGH*/ comment, even)
Nei confusing for some, but powerful without doubt
ayrnieu not that lint is anything to emulate. 02:27
allbery_b hm? old lint was a useful tool for catching most common semantic bugs. the lint replacements I've seen over the past several years haven't been worth much, I'll grant 02:28
Nei can someone show me a quick example of the goto way, I'm obviously too stupid 02:30
audreyt Nei: you are not too stupid, pugs is
*goto is not implemented
actually, t/blocks/goto.t doesn't really test goto LABEL. 02:31
Nei: edit that file to add some failing tests?
(do you have a commit bit? if not, what's your email addr? :-))
Nei heh, I see 02:32
audreyt the relevant spec is S04/The goto statement
Nei that part of s04 seems pretty brief and without illustration
I guess everyone knows how goto works from p5
audreyt well, you can port perl5's goto tests then 02:33
Nei but thanks for the confirmation of pugs being the culprit :) 02:34
audreyt but the #1 reason why this feature is not there, is that nothing tests for it :)
Nei I have never committed anything to pugs
audreyt do you have a commit account, though? 02:36
if not, may I have your email address?
welcome aboard! 02:38
please commit with the account "Nei" to svn.pugscode.org after receiving the commit-bit mail 02:39
search.cpan.org/dist/Perl6-Pugs/doc...c/Hack.pod has some quickstart guide
lambdabot Title: Pugs::Doc::Hack - How to hack on Pugs - search.cpan.org
audreyt it's customary to add yourself to the AUTHORS file first, then commit it
to test that svn works
have fun :) I'll bbiab
Nei I'm a wee bit scared though 02:40
audreyt you'll get used to it :)
Nei adding yourself to the authors for a tiny test, sounds a bit exaggerated 02:41
I'll see what I can do, though 02:42
allbery_b the real reason pugs isn't complete is that @Larry's holding out until half the internet's in AUTHORS :> 02:43
Nei heh 02:44
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robkinyon stevan: ping 04:05
04:05 bpalmer` left
stevan robkinyon: ping me over on irc.perl.org please :) 04:40
unless you wanna chat here :)
robkinyon feh 04:41
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svnbot6 r14913 | Nei++ | * Added myself (Nei) to AUTHORS to test svn commit, as per recommendation by audreyt. 05:04
Eidolos :) 05:06
audreyt Nei++ 05:18
Nei now, if I add just some goto label
that will make pugs fail hard
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Nei should I try to catch that somehow? 05:19
audreyt you can use eval""
see t/README for ideas
is(eval("goto FOO; FOO: 1"), 1) 05:20
something like that
svnbot6 r14914 | Nei++ | * Test for goto LABEL 05:25
audreyt woot
Nei I'll port the p5 tests (maybe) if this one passes 05:26
audreyt Nei++
gaal haha oleg does it again. variable type state monad 05:28
Nei I understand this is not the focus, but is there some secret to improving pugs startup time? it spends 20 seconds on the prelude =)
gaal do you have a blib6/lib/Prelude.pm.yml file?
and: did you 'make
' or 'make fast'?
also, run a new GHC, it helps 05:29
gotta moose &
Nei I did a make, I have a Prelude.pm.yml 05:31
I'll try a new ghc
Eidolos pugs takes only a second or so to boot up here (r14912 :))
Tene couple seconds here.
10 seconds or so on desktop.
Nei my computer is exceptionally bad ;)
Eidolos Ah, not much to be done about that, especially if you used make and not make fast. 05:32
Nei so make fast makes faster, at the expense of slower runtime?
Eidolos Yeah, pretty sure. 05:33
Nei has someone started an easy & comprehensive p6 intro yet? there is a shitload of docs, but the exegeses/synopsis/apocalypsis stuff is a bit too much to read through for me.. I suspect maybe I'm just being blind 05:34
Tene Nei: what sort of things would you want covered in an intro? 05:35
Nei good question... I think something in the lines of perl5intro and perl5syn 05:36
Tene I haven't seen one, but I might put one together sometime. 05:37
Nei cool :) 05:38
Tene I wish I would have thoguht of those for the last-minute presentation I threw together last week. 05:39
Eidolos Will perl6 still have computed gotos?
er, Perl6 :)
That's another thing you might add a test for, Nei.
perl -e 'goto "label" . (1+1); label1: die "1"; label2: die "2";' -- dies with 2
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Nei thing is, imo the docs concerning goto are not very detailed 05:41
Eidolos nods.
luqui My guess is that goto LABEL is illegal, and it is either gone or spelled goto 'LABEL' 05:46
Nei it is definitely not gone 05:49
since s05/a04 talk about it
*s04 05:50
as for whether the label needs to be quoted... I'd disagree, it is nothing evaluated during runtime
(although p5 does support the goto EXPR, as mentioned by Eidolos )
luqui Nei, so goto has special syntax? 05:51
i.e. it is a macro?
Nei are there standard means to resolve uncernties in the specs ?
luqui ask @Larry
Eidolos Nei: await the return of The Man :)
luqui luqui (in) @Larry, but doesn't usually make decisions 05:52
Nei on second thought 05:53
you might be right
:P
luqui doesn't have much clue about this matter... 05:54
ingy hola
luqui guten tag, ingy
ingy nihao luqui
luqui anata wa como estas? 05:55
:-p
svnbot6 r14915 | Nei++ | * [t/blocks/goto.t] Added quotes to the goto 'label' as pointed out by luqui. (This is in line with last.)
ingy ooo luqui, you make me so hot.
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Eidolos hmm. 05:56
ingy takes a cold shower
luqui . . .
gosha hey guys, just curious does perl have templates and generics?
perl6 that is
luqui gosha, fortunately not
(yes, sortof)
ingy of course it does
gosha fortunately?
ingy Perl 6 has CPAN! 05:57
luqui it has generics in the haskell/ml sense, not the c++ sense
ingy it all just works
luqui (again, sortof)
ingy ducks
luqui S06 covers some of that, S12 covers some of that, but I still think we're not totally solid on the generics model 05:59
Nei, you said "this is in line with last"? 06:00
the test suite disagrees. is there somewhere in the specs you are quoting?
gosha Hmm. I understand I can define a list of integers like so: my Int @list. Why not generic classes like "my SomeClass @list"?
Nei ?eval my @h = 'cat', 'dog'; LOOP: for @h -> $t { $t.say; last 'LO' ~ 'OP'; } 06:01
luqui gosha, uh, yeah, of course
evalbot_r14915 OUTPUT[cat␤] undef
luqui ?eval my @h = <cat dog>; LOOP: for @h -> $t { $t.say; last LOOP; } 06:02
evalbot_r14915 OUTPUT[cat␤] Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&LOOP"
luqui aa soo
okay, good
I'm satisfied with that
Nei maybe goto should be a statement and not a block? 06:04
luqui goto is a block?
Nei maybe not, but the file is in t/blocks/goto.t
luqui oh, so you're just talking about test organization 06:05
yeah, statements makes sense to me
Nei is the statements/last.t test concerning last LABEL .. wrong? 06:06
or is pugs wrong
luqui I'm guessing pugs is wrong
S06, line 2655
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luqui (the C<leave> function) 06:06
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luqui er, line 2045 06:07
Eidolos Wow, the examples/cookbook directories are damn near empty. :/ 06:09
Nei *sigh*
so my initial code might have been correct as far as the specs go 06:10
well I suppose that goto EXPR still wont go away
good thing we've talked about it
bah, pugs ignores last EXPR 06:24
svnbot6 r14916 | Nei++ | * bah >_> 06:31
Eidolos What's the idiomatic way to add an element to an array? I don't see push in any of the testing code. 06:35
Nei ?eval @a = 'cat'; @a.push('dog'); @a 06:38
evalbot_r14915 ["cat", "dog"]
Nei looks like push is still there
Eidolos huh. OK, thanks :)
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TimToady @tell luqui yes, that is correct, there are no places in Perl 6 where a list in scalar context defaults to returning the final value. it just returns the list as an item. 06:52
lambdabot Consider it noted.
Eidolos ?eval %x = (foo => "bar", baz => "quux"); %x ~~ "foo"; 06:55
evalbot_r14916 Bool::False
Eidolos Does hash ~~ scalar check for existence or truth? 06:56
A04 and S04 say truth, but.. 06:57
TimToady S03 sez existence
Eidolos ohh
Yeah I'm misreading the table, sorry. 06:58
TimToady assuming Hash/Any matches first.
Nei: loop and goto labels are one of those areas where we just handwaved it to be "like Perl 5". It's not terribly well specced how to deal with ambiguities though. 06:59
should "goto foo()" parse, for instance... 07:00
I'm inclined to say that goto, next, etc force the next identifier to autoquote, and if you really need computed goto, you should have to say goto(foo()). 07:01
alternately, only allow autoquotes of labels that are visible in the current outer scope. 07:02
Unfortunately that doesn't help in parsing forward goto's...
Nei is there a tradition of introducing mandatory () to force non-autoquoting? 07:04
TimToady there's a tradition of forcing *something* where autoquoting would get it wrong. 07:05
in the case of =>, "foo" => "bar"
or foo() => "bar" 07:06
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TimToady Perl 5 has a long tradition of jumping though hoops to try to second guess the programmer. 07:06
we're trying not jump through quite so many hoops for Perl 6 07:07
but certain keywords are much like sigils 07:08
if you say $foo() it parses as $foo and (), not as $ and foo()
so I don't think forcing goto foo() to parse as "goto foo" and () is all that bad. 07:09
the situation won't arise all that often in practice.
Nei mhm
I wonder if you can always get away with "this wont happen so often" 07:10
TimToady 'course not, for things that happen often. :)
Eidolos Strings don't have a length method?
TimToady measured in what units?
Eidolos ahh, thanks :)
TimToady .chars works
Nei ?eval my $x = sub { "c" }; $x() 07:11
evalbot_r14916 "c"
TimToady .bytes might or might not work depending on whether the particular string type lets you.
Eidolos nods.
Nei ?eval sub foo { "l" }; my %x = ( foo() => "n" ); %x 07:14
evalbot_r14916 {("l" => "n"),}
Nei I think it'd make most sense to treat the autoquoting of labels like =>
TimToady .chars is guaranteed to work, but only by downgrading to the maximum allowed abstraction level, so depending on lexical context and the type of the string, might really mean graphemes or codepoints or even bytes. 07:15
Nei so that goto foo() would jump to "l"
Eidolos :)
Nei this happens to match my intuitive opinion, but ymmv of course
TimToady except that => has the benefit of seeing foo() from the right side rather than the left.
we're not installing multi-token lookaheads if we can help it. 07:16
Nei I dont write compilers, parsers or other sick shit
TimToady and unfortunately the parser has to decide what foo is pretty much as soon as it sees it. 07:17
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Nei actually you're not making much sense 07:17
=> sees foo() on the left side afaikt 07:18
TimToady on its left side, but on the "foo()"'s right side, is what I meant.
ingy on the left == from the right
TimToady it sees it on the parenthesis side.
Nei mhm well I'm sure you know a lot of stuff and I dont; and surely I cannot decide what perl6 will be :) 07:19
just saying that I could see some sense in handling labels similar to how => autoquotes.. cant judge if it's "not worth the effort" 07:20
on the other hand, if these cases rarely occur, does it still matter so gravely?
TimToady well, having put lots of such heuristics into Perl 5, I would prefer to keep things a bit simpler in Perl 6 where we can get away with it. 07:21
the heuristics belong in trying to explain error messages, not it trying to parse things despite the ambiguity.
Nei but if the lack of heuristics actually causes illogical behaviour that requires special documenting
TimToady so I'd prefer that "goto foo()" fail but give a good diagnostic why.
Nei then we might be better off disallowing LABEL altogether and always requiring or assuming EXPR 07:22
TimToady by far the LABEL is the common case.
I've written two or three EXPR goto/next's in my life. 07:23
Nei I don't like having to explain "well you have this goto here and in most of the cases you can omit the () but you see, if you want the goto to jump to the return of a sub, theeen you have to use goto()"
TimToady requiring goto(foo()) is not really any hardship as long as it doesn't just silently misbehave without the parens.
Nei but thats just me of course :)
I think another discrepancy in my mind is that I assocate () with functions, and I dont like to view control statements as such 07:25
TimToady well, there is that.
goto (foo()) also works.
so does goto &foo()
Nei yea, of course
TimToady anything that stops it looking like an identifier. 07:26
Nei I still need to get accustomed to the &sub() syntax that I tried to forget in p5
svnbot6 r14917 | Ovid++ | Misses a "splice in scalar context" test. It's fixed now.
TimToady again, much like $foo vs $$foo or $(foo)
Nei how do you go to a sub in p6? 07:27
TimToady oh, &foo.call() or some such.
unlike in P5, &foo never calls foo, it's just the sub object. 07:28
Nei there has to be a syntax similar to goto &foo 07:30
or not :/?
?eval goto foo; 07:31
evalbot_r14917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&foo"
Nei what is it doing there?
TimToady P6 supports tailcall optimization, so all it has to be is an ordinary call, really.
but sometimes you want to make it explicit.
Nei it is looking for some &foo, but with which goal? 07:32
TimToady goto isn't implemented yet.
Nei ah so
revdiablo ?eval goto goto; 07:33
evalbot_r14917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&goto"
TimToady if it had found foo() it wouldn't have found goto()
revdiablo =)
Nei ye makes sense now
TimToady ?eval foo foo;
evalbot_r14917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&foo"
Nei so there wont be a goto &foo ?
TimToady not with that syntax. 07:34
Nei ?eval sub foo { "l" }; &foo.goto
evalbot_r14917 "l"
TimToady that currently works, and we might keep it. 07:35
Nei whats the difference between foo, &foo.goto and &foo.call?
TimToady .call is for use within wrappers, and things like wrappers, that want to pretend they're not on the call stack. so it may subsume .goto 07:37
basically foo is for a "real" call from the viewpoint of the user, and .call and friends are infrastructural 07:38
so an autoloader would use .call just as it would use 'goto &foo' in P5 07:39
except we've split out the lookup and call parts of autoloading in P6
.call also assumes you're passing the current argument list in to another routine with the same (or similar) signature. You can override that, but it's not default for .call. 07:40
Nei I see, thanks for the explanations 07:42
TimToady if we keep &foo.goto then probably goto &foo also works still.
it's not like goto could do much else with a sub ref, other than fail... 07:44
Nei heh
TimToady implicitly calling it would be not in the spirit of P6
so oddly it's one of things that actually is a little cleaner in P6; it's just that goto &foo is smelly in P5, and that kind of carries over a little. 07:45
Nei well tbh I rarely use goto &sub 07:47
Eidolos I almost used it once.. hehe.
(then I turned the recursive loop into an iterative one..)
Nei but goto expr is more common imo, or at least from what I know
TimToady I've actually used goto &sub a lot more than goto LABEL.
but I've written a lot of autoloaders...
Nei because you have an excuse for goto &sub, whereas goto label is mostly just BASIC 07:48
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TimToady and any place goto LABEL is used repetitively, we've replaced it with something else, like "redo" 07:48
arguably, that's something people might want for case statements. 07:49
the problem with having a "fallthrough" verb, though, is what to do if the next statement is not a "when".
it seems like it's okay to fall back to goto for this, rather than defining a new verb. 07:50
Nei the flexibility of perl's given, makes this difficult
but actually, goto will still not make me happy 07:51
TimToady and having a goto paired with a label in the target block makes it unambiguous even if an intervening statement is added
Nei given $x { when a { goto B } when b { B: goto C } when c { C: goto D } }
now add a case
besides its a waste of labels :/
TimToady well, almost certainly indicates you should have been using polymorphism rather than a case statement... 07:52
Nei there might be better ways to do what you want, agreed :) 07:53
*what I want
TimToady no, you don't want it. you just think you *might* want it someday.
I don't think you ever actually will. 07:54
Nei it is probably too ugly ^^
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Nei just because I write stuff like that in $other_language, probably it can be done in a nicer way in perl 07:55
TimToady at some point, as a language designer I have to cut it off and say "the opportunity cost of people learning this new feature is too great to be justified on the few possible use cases." 07:56
my tolerance for forcing people to learn features is pretty high, compared to most language designers.
Nei ^^ 07:57
TimToady but even I have my limits. :)
mostly because it also means I have to keep explaining the feature.
Nei although, a statement that would just skip the next "when" test, might work
or maybe 07:58
isnt there something to say
when "previous" or ... { ..}
basically an inverse fallthrough
TimToady wouldn't need anything special 07:59
given $x { my $fallthru = 1; ... when $fallthru or ... {...}
Nei basically you need to reset the fallthru variable at each new fallthru block 08:01
it doesnt look too bad, I guess
TimToady nah, just default like C. :)
I'd much rather encourage people to use "next METHOD" instead.
Nei what do you mean exactly? 08:02
TimToady the dispatchers are already set up to allow redispatch to the next-most-likely method.
see S12.
Nei mhm 08:04
TimToady basically if you're doing multi dispatch, various routines could handle your data, but you call the most specific ones first, and they can use "next METHOD" to call more generic ones after themselves.
which is usually what you want fallthrough for in a switch.
Nei true 08:05
but that sounds very oo-ish
TimToady well, sure, in spots. multimethod dispatch is more about types than objects though.
Nei but how many more lines does the multimethod stuff add over a C switch, for some reason I have the impression that it is enormous 08:07
like you need to have your own sub for each case
TimToady which for short ones can be one line, just like a 'when'
the problem with switches is that they can't do multidimension pattern matches without cascaded switch statements 08:08
and they're very hard to maintain. 08:09
especially when you want to make decisions that cut across the "wrong" dimension 08:10
multiple dispatch solves these sorts of problems easily.
Nei do I not need a class hierarchy for that stuff to work?
TimToady you need types for it to work. a class hierarchy is one way of supplying types. 08:11
Nei I'm too much of a n00b
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TimToady well, you don't have to learn it all at once. in the meanwhile, P6's switch statement is a lot more powerful than anything in P5... 08:12
Nei heh
I already like it :)
I tried the source filter p5 switch in some project but it really should carry some bigger warnings 08:13
TimToady indeed, source filtering is one of those things where you use it on a problem, and then you have two problems...
one of those areas where the P5 solution was too simple. 08:14
the trick has been to design in all the necessary complexity without making the simple jobs any harder. 08:15
I think we mostly been successful there.
but there's definitely more there to learn if you decide to learn it all.
it's almost a complete course in C.S. to get to the bottom of it all, in fact... 08:16
but worth it for those who get there, we sincerely hope...
and we hope there are many metastable waystations at which to rest. 08:17
Eidolos Hrm.
Nei :) 08:18
TimToady with plenty of signs that say "HERE THERE BE (nice) DRAGONS!"
Eidolos I think I have a bug here with Pugs' delete.
TimToady you know it doesn't support P5 syntax?
Eidolos %food_color.delete(<Carrot Apple Cabbage>) works, but the following doesn't: delete (%food_color, <Carrot Apple Cabbage>);
hehe, yes :)
I'm working on upgrading the Perl Cookbook's code! :) 08:19
(and in the meantime learning the little changes in the language)
Nei why is there push,but not delete?
Eidolos Let me try to isolate the problem.
TimToady well, you'd have to write it delete(%food_color: <...>)
no space, plus a colon after the invocant
Eidolos is delete(%h1, <c d e>), @cde, "test for delete multiple keys. (Indirect notation)"; 08:20
passes tests :/
TimToady probably a historical accident, but we might choose to preserve it.
much like it really ought to be push @foo: 1,2,3, but we still allow push @foo, 1,2,3
Nei better rid yourself of these things while you still can 08:21
TimToady some of 'em, not all of 'em 08:22
Perl will still be a TMTOWTDI language
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Eidolos Hmm, OK, maybe it isn't a bug in pugs. 08:25
or at least I can't reproduce it except in the original script.
Nei does anyone actually use Form(at)s? 08:28
Eidolos I've never used Perl5 formats, no 08:29
OK, cool, I got it to fail. 08:30
Hmm. 08:32
Nei how do I force types in perl? 08:33
Eidolos like: my Int $x; ?
Nei ?eval my Int $x
evalbot_r14917 \::Int
Nei ?eval my Int $x; $x = "a"; $x 08:34
evalbot_r14917 \"a"
Eidolos I don't think pugs supports it yet.
Nei ok thanks
Eidolos That's weird. 08:35
I don't get the problem in pugs -e
but I have a .t file that's failing.
www.rafb.net/paste/results/wyHt9f11.html 08:36
buubot The paste wyHt9f11 has been copied to erxz.com/pb/608
Eidolos Expected: 'Lemon', Actual: 'Banana Carrot Lemon Apple'
(you have to: use Test plan => 1) 08:38
Nei Eidolos this really works in pugs? 08:39
TimToady remove the space after delete
Eidolos It doesn't work here.
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Eidolos yep, that fixes it. Weird! 08:39
TimToady not weird, if you understand why S02 requires function args to be adjacent 08:40
Eidolos I see.
TimToady otherwise the parentheses are taken to be around the first argument.
in order to have a very extensible language system that allows postfix operators, you have to distinguish real postops from things that aren't 08:41
Eidolos ahh
TimToady and function args are in the "real" category.
Nei a little bit evil
TimToady but very consistent, once you get used to it, and motivated for futureproofing reasons. 08:42
see S02 for more explanation.
Eidolos So would it work OK without any parentheses?
TimToady probably.
dduncan I have a question in the spirit of that recent supertype discussion on p6l ... maybe the answer is similar, or maybe not ...
Eidolos yeah, works OK without parens. 08:43
TimToady k, though I should be getting to bed pretty soon...
dduncan is it possible to declare something in Perl 6 such that if a value is declared, it would automatically assume the most specific data class / the most-sub subclass that it could be part of?
TimToady you mean like 1 is an Int and not a Num 08:44
dduncan eg, if someone declared a "subset Evens" within scope, and then after we said my $foo = 6; then the value of $foo isa Evens rather than Int
TimToady on the other hand, why is it not a UInt2 in that case?
since 0..1 is large enough... 08:45
dduncan whatever
TimToady you can't be "isa" a subtype
dduncan okay
TimToady if you ask for the actual type of a value it will give you the "base" type on which the subset is based. 08:46
08:46 drrho joined
dduncan its possible that my idea is somewhat contrived, but that's why I'm putting it out here quickly rather than on p6l 08:46
Eidolos my Evens $foo; ?
dduncan or a similar interesting feature would be, given a particular $foo, if there was a short-hand to introspect the system for the most specific type that includes that value 08:47
Eidolos Like Haskell's :t?
dduncan I'm not that familiar with Haskell
on a tangent ... 08:48
TimToady it sounds remarkably like multi dispatch to the most specific sig.
assuming there was some particular call that all types participate in.
as the single first argument 08:49
Eidolos :t (in Haskell) lets you inspect the type of any expression. I think it's actually most general, not specific, type that fits, because otherwise you run into that UInt2 problem. :)
lambdabot parse error on input `in'
dduncan just as we can declare a variable like "my Foo|Bar $baz;", could we alternately say "my Foo&Bar $baz;" or some such ... eg, $baz must be something that is both a Foo and a Bar ... or I suppose perhaps this constraint is usually specified with a chain instead
Eidolos :t fibs = 1 : 1 : (zip (+)) fibs (tail fibs)
lambdabot parse error on input `='
Eidolos :t 1 : 1 : (zip (+)) fibs (tail fibs)
lambdabot Not in scope: `fibs' 08:50
<interactive>:1:29: Not in scope: `fibs'
Eidolos oh, nevermind, I'll knock it off :)
dduncan anyway, don't take my questions too seriously for the moment
TimToady for the moment we're trying to limit junctional types to where constraints, not to real storage declaratoins
Eidolos (oh, I see, I used zip where I needed zipWith, duh)
among other things >_>
I'll stick to Perl.. 08:51
dduncan okay ... but if you change your mind, that might be useful, perhaps
mind you, from my own work into this area ...
TimToady well, if every type declaration automatically generates a "multi mostspecific (MyType)" then it would work
or it would fail on ambiguity 08:52
probably usually fail
42 is Even and also UInt8
which is more specific? 08:53
assuming Even is "subset Even of Int where ($_ !% 2)" or some such
I guess a use case would be in order. 08:54
dduncan fyi, I've been spending the last few hours writing down an intro to a type system I may use in my database project which is based on sets, such that every type is a set of values, and subtypes are typically subsets, etc ... in the process was also brought up matters of multiple inheritence, such as a diamond-inheritence of Parallelogram, Rectangle, Rhombus, Square ... Square in this case is the intersection type of Rectangle and Rhombus 08:55
suffice it to say that it is a simpler landscape than what Perl is dealing with 08:56
Eidolos wheren't :)
TimToady yeah, and the set theory turns inside out when you switch between extensional and intensional views.
dduncan in the system I setup, all possible values belong to a universal set, which correspond's to Perl's "Any" designation (which no value can have, but variables can hold), and normal data types are subsets thereof 08:57
TimToady well, I should have used {...}, not (...), and if I did add !% it would probably mean "not divisible evenly by", but that's inconsistent with ! in other ways. 08:58
dduncan practically, all user-defined types have to be based on system-defined ones, either through subtyping or unioning or construction
in the case of subtyping, the user hasn't added new values that can be seen, but with construction they have 08:59
construction meaning like declaring a class with attributes
in this system, while a value can be of multiple types, it has its own most-specific-type, and is automatically promoted to the most-specific-type in the system that includes it 09:00
mind you, some of those details users probably can ignore
practically, it is still like values of a subtype of Foo still being considered just a Foo 09:01
anyway, good night!
TimToady well, according to mmd, the most specific type of 42 is 42.
dduncan in the system I described, if a type called "EvenInts" was defined, then 42 would be one of those 09:02
TimToady but if I say "multi foo (42) {...}" it matches only type 42. 09:03
dduncan if I had declared "multi foo (Int)" and "multi foo (EvenNum)", I assume the latter would be invoked
TimToady as long as you didn't have (foo) too 09:04
(42) rather
dduncan mind you, according to good design, it shouldn't matter ... because both such functions should have identical semantics
TimToady that's why we spend a lot of time handwaving that enums are types as well as values. 09:05
dduncan and so the latter would only even be defined if EvenNum was defined as something else that does Int and is implemented differently underneath
rather than as a subset
TimToady yeah, it gets into duck vs named typing eventually 09:06
for some definition of duck, and name...
well, really gotta go snooze, my eyes are glazing over.
dduncan indeed, good night 1 and Inf 09:07
TimToady I'll settle for 1 and *
zzz &
dduncan yyy &
09:17 dduncan left 09:33 RHainsworth joined, RHainsworth left 09:51 araujo_ joined 09:52 araujo joined 10:01 elmex joined 10:05 buetow joined
Debolaz Will @foo>>.bar; call method bar on each object in @foo? That's what I'm reading S12 as, but I can't get it to work in pugs. 10:14
jrockway ?eval (1,2,3)>>.sqrt 10:16
evalbot_r14917 (1.0, 1.4142135623730951, 1.7320508075688772)
jrockway works for me :)
?eval my @a = (1,2,3); @a>>.sqrt 10:17
evalbot_r14917 (1.0, 1.4142135623730951, 1.7320508075688772)
jrockway Debolaz: what is in @foo, and can it bar?
Debolaz class Foo { sub bar { say "Hello world!" } }; my @baz = (Foo.new,Foo.new); @baz>>.bar;
Is there a typo here somewhere? 10:18
jrockway can you ?eval that?
Debolaz I got the sqrt example to work.
?eval class Foo { sub bar { say "Hello world!" } }; my @baz = (Foo.new,Foo.new); @baz>>.bar;
evalbot_r14917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&>>bar"
jrockway ?eval class Foo { sub bar { say "Hello world!" } }; Foo.new 10:19
evalbot_r14917 Foo.new()
jrockway i'm not 100% sure that ClassName.new() creates a new instance
but then i don't really know :(
Debolaz Foo.new.bar works btw.
jrockway oh 10:20
what happens if you do something without side-effects?
Debolaz ?eval class Foo { sub bar { "Hello world!" } }; Foo.new.bar
jrockway bar { 42 }
evalbot_r14917 "Hello world!"
Debolaz So Foo.new obviously works in some context..
jrockway ?eval class Foo { sub bar { "Hello world!" } }; (Foo.new(), Foo.new()).bar
evalbot_r14917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&bar"
jrockway ah, it's calling it on the list 10:21
(1,2).sqrt
?eval (1,2).sqrt
evalbot_r14917 1.4142135623730951
jrockway i see...
i guess >>. should work
Debolaz Am I doing something wrong here? 10:22
jrockway not that i know, but you're asking the wrong person :)
i guess you could do:
?eval (Foo.new(),Foo.new()).map { 42 }
evalbot_r14917 Error: ␤Unexpected "{"␤expecting operator 10:23
jrockway i forget the syntax for map though
s/forget/don't know/
:/
Debolaz Still, the problem isn't so much getting all methods called. It's that S12 says this should work and it does apparently work on some arrays of objects but not on others..
And I suspect I may be the one who is doing something wrong, but I have no idea what. 10:24
jrockway well, let's look at the tests and see what they do 10:26
i know in audreyt++'s slides, she uses the sqrt example :)
and that works :)
Debolaz prods audreyt. 10:27
audreyt: Help the less intelligent ones. Tell me what I'm doing wrong here. 10:28
jrockway i'm looking through the tests to give you an example
Tene Debolaz: what's different about the arrays that work and those that don't? 10:32
Debolaz Tene: Only thing I can see is different is whether they contain blessed objects or not. 10:33
Tene and which one works?
Debolaz (1,2,3)>>.sqrt works 10:34
(Foo.new)>>.bar don't
Tene tests
Debolaz ?eval class Foo { sub bar { say "Hello world!" } }; my @baz = (Foo.new,Foo.new); @baz>>.bar;
evalbot_r14917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&>>bar"
Debolaz ?eval (1,2,3)>>.sqrt 10:35
evalbot_r14917 (1.0, 1.4142135623730951, 1.7320508075688772)
wolverian ?eval my @foo = (1..3); @foo>>.sqrt
evalbot_r14917 (1.0, 1.4142135623730951, 1.7320508075688772)
Debolaz wolverian: Already tried this. :)
jrockway hehe, exactly the same two steps
wolverian oh, yeah, you did.
jrockway heh, i fixed some of the tests but can't commit because the repository UUID changed... 10:36
wolverian looks like a weird parsing error :)
Debolaz ?eval class Foo { sub bar { say "Hello world!" } }; (Foo.new)>>.bar;
jrockway waiting ... :)
evalbot_r14917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&>>bar"
wolverian oh
dammit
Debolaz, 'method bar 10:37
'
not sub
jrockway ?eval class Foo { method bar { 42 } }; (Foo.new,Foo.new)>>.bar
evalbot_r14917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&>>bar"
jrockway it worked for him when he did Foo.new.bar remember
?eval Foo.new
evalbot_r14917 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&Foo" 10:38
10:38 ofer1 joined
Tene ?eval class Foo { method bar { 42 } }; Foo.new.bar; 10:38
evalbot_r14917 42
Debolaz wolverian: Oops.. yeah, that should've been method, but as jrockway says, it's not the problem.
jrockway goes to read S12
Tene ?eval class Foo { method bar { say 42 } }; .bar for (Foo.new,Foo.new) 10:39
evalbot_r14917 OUTPUT[42␤42␤] undef
svnbot6 r14918 | jrockway++ | r4@foo: jon | 2006-12-18 04:42:53 -0600 10:45
r14918 | jrockway++ | fix a minor typo
jrockway hmm, should xx-uncategorized/hyperop.t exist still? 10:47
(t/)
?eval ("f", "oo", "bar")>>.length 10:52
evalbot_r14918 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&>>length"
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jrockway indeed, that's a failing TODO test 10:54
i wonder why sqrt works and not length 10:55
?eval ("foo", "bar")>>.match("foo") 10:56
evalbot_r14918 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&>>match"
jrockway Debolaz: it looks like this stuff should work... the tests are TODO though
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avar what's the authorative kwid spec? google knows nothing of it 11:12
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svnbot6 r14919 | jrockway++ | r6@foo: jon | 2006-12-18 05:23:14 -0600 11:24
r14919 | jrockway++ | Add some tests to see if hyper-method call works (suggested by
r14919 | jrockway++ | Debolaz++) ( i.e (Foo.new)>>.bar )
r14919 | jrockway++ | Add a test to see if hyper works on lists of integers (>>.sqrt)
jrockway Debolaz: added some tests for what you were trying to do 11:25
however since it's 5am and I have to go to work in 3 hours, I'll see if I can find the cause (etc.) later :) 11:26
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jrockway should this work?: 11:58
?eval class Foo { method bar { 42 } }; $foo = Foo.new; $foo.can('bar'); 11:59
evalbot_r14919 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&can"
jrockway ?eval class Foo { method bar { 42 } }; $foo = Foo.new; $foo.HOW.can('bar');
evalbot_r14919 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&can"
jrockway ?eval class Foo { method bar { 42 } }; $foo = Foo.new; $foo.^can('bar');
evalbot_r14919 Error: ␤Unexpected "^"␤expecting ".", "\187", ">>", "=", operator name, qualified identifier, variable name, "...", "--", "++", array subscript, hash subscript or code subscript
jrockway maybe i'm misreading S12?
audreyt no, that will work once MO is merged in 12:06
which, really, is RSN :) 12:07
jrockway cool :)
what about the (Foo.new)>>.bar business from above?
audreyt ?eval class Foo { method bar { 42 } } Foo.new.>>.bar
evalbot_r14919 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&>>bar"
audreyt ?eval class Foo { method bar { 42 } } [Foo.new, Foo.new].>>.bar 12:08
evalbot_r14919 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&>>bar"
audreyt hm, weird, I tought it worked
?eval (1..10).>>.sqrt
evalbot_r14919 (1.0, 1.4142135623730951, 1.7320508075688772, 2.0, 2.23606797749979, 2.449489742783178, 2.6457513110645907, 2.8284271247461903, 3.0, 3.1622776601683795)
jrockway i added a test for that, but there was one similar
audreyt k
will look
jrockway ?eval ("f", "foo", "bar")>>.length
evalbot_r14919 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&>>length"
audreyt .chars
not length
jrockway ok, so the test was wrong :) 12:09
?eval ("f", "foo", "bar")>>.chars
evalbot_r14919 (1, 3, 3)
jrockway beautiful, i'll fix that
audreyt hm, perl is 19 years old now
Debolaz audreyt :) 12:10
The example (3,8,2,9,3,8) >>->> 1; from S03 doesn't seem to work either.
audreyt currently the other dir of hyper is not implemented -- tests welcome 12:11
jrockway ?eval 1 >>-<< (1,2,3)
evalbot_r14919 (0, -1, -2)
jrockway ?eval (1,2,3) >>-<< 1
evalbot_r14919 (0, 1, 2)
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svnbot6 r14920 | jrockway++ | r8@foo: jon | 2006-12-18 06:13:26 -0600 12:16
r14920 | jrockway++ | s/.length/.chars/ in hyper test
jrockway ?eval (1,2,3) >>- 1
?eval (1,2,3) >>->> 1
evalbot_r14919 Error: ␤Unexpected ">>-"␤expecting operator
Error: ␤Unexpected ">>->>"␤expecting operator
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svnbot6 r14921 | szabgab++ | more keywords in perl6.vim 14:59
14:59 kanru joined
svnbot6 r14922 | szabgab++ | more hash related tests 15:02
r14922 | szabgab++ | retab test files
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rindolf Hi all. 16:00
jrockway hello
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scrottie surveys someone else's domain 18:08
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sili huzzah 19:10
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Dr_Pi gaal: I'm still stuck in dial-up here in Italy. I'm hoping to get my 200Kps cell phone connection working by tomorrow afternoon. 20:45
20:49 prism joined 20:54 pbuetow joined 21:05 Azure-BOT joined 21:11 bonesss joined 21:19 Ovid joined 21:20 Ovid joined
Ovid Hi all. 21:20
Anyone know why rafb.net/paste/results/7EEn0898.html gives me scalar references? 21:22
buubot The paste 7EEn0898 has been copied to erxz.com/pb/615
21:22 Psyche^ joined
Ovid I think that's a bug, but I don't want to commit a test if I'm wrong. 21:22
21:28 weinig is now known as weinig|bbl
TimToady I'd say it's probably a buglet. happens that putting "item $elem" suppresses it. 21:28
effectively you're getting a scalar container instead of the value, but since Perl 6 doesn't really have references, it should work the same most of the time as an rvalue. 21:29
Ovid Ah, thanks. I'll see if I can replicate that and commit a test. Thanks.
TimToady unfortunately it lies about being modifyable.
basically you've ended up with a temp lvalue, I think.
that's why I had an extra "item" in one of my examples somewhere. 21:30
also, I think luqui's patch might have broken the current gather.
wolverian must.. resist.. MMDing.. 21:31
TimToady gather is in a state of flux to becoming a "statement_prefix" like do
Ovid Where do you put in the "item $elem"? I can't figure it out. On the other hand, I'm recompiling, so I'll check it again. However, if what you posted was legal syntax, I'll commit that as a test unless it's not reasonable (since it sounds like the syntax might change)
TimToady after the !! 21:32
Ovid Oh, duh! I was looking at some different gather/take code just now :) 21:33
21:33 luqui joined
luqui hey Ovid, got your message 21:33
lambdabot luqui: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
TimToady you can prove that it's a temp lvalue and not a ref to $elem by adding in a "d".
if it were \$elem then it would presumably have the same value.
or maybe not, since it's a formal parameter to a closure 21:34
so gets cloned. nevermind
luqui Ovid, I'm guessing that it's due to my recent change to gather syntax
Ovid, I'm investigating 21:35
21:37 xpika joined
Ovid The 'item' fixed it in my code. Thanks. And luqui's changes apparently broke perlmonks.org/?node_id=590147, too. Bad luqui :) 21:37
lambdabot Title: Re^2: 99 Problems in Perl6 (Lisp, Prolog, Haskell)
TimToady that's what we were referring to. 21:38
21:38 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
TimToady the item thing is not luqui's fault... 21:38
or if it is, differently. :) 21:39
luqui it seems to be a closing brace dwimmery issue
I killed the inside of the inner gather
take [
gather {;}
]
breaks, but 21:40
take [ gather {;} ]
compiles
TimToady weird
luqui the implicit semicolon only should take effect when it is syntactically valid, right?
i.e., since we are inside a [] construct, it shouldn't be happening?
TimToady hmm 21:41
except the idea of "do" and "gather" is to introduce a statement level parse...
so arguably it should auto-semi there, and then return out to ] 21:42
luqui doesn't follow
TimToady we set up "do" to just expect a statement after 21:43
but what happens if you say
$x = [ do for @foo {
...
}
] 21:44
;
luqui ah, the statementness of the for will do the autonewliney thing...
should do override that?
TimToady we're trying to put gather/contend/etc into the same syntactic category now.
luqui (side note, what about try?) 21:45
TimToady do sets up expectation of a statement following, which may or may not be a block.
try too
$x = do LABEL: goto LABEL;
luqui iack 21:46
er, ack
TimToady seems to me if do mumble can be terminated by ; it can also be terminated by lonely }
luqui hmm 21:47
so Ovid's code is in fact an error?
TimToady which code?
p6u?
luqui er, yours I guess
perlmonks.org/?node_id=590147
lambdabot Title: Re^2: 99 Problems in Perl6 (Lisp, Prolog, Haskell)
TimToady It used to parse.
luqui before gather was a statement introducer 21:48
TimToady if a statement_prefix is followed by a block, that's the only argument
21:48 devogon joined
TimToady shouldn't matter whether you assume ; there. 21:48
Ovid I know it's too late to do anything about it, but I find myself writing "is copy" more than I care to in signatures. Is there a shortcut? (rafb.net/paste/results/ENLPqk79.html)
buubot The paste ENLPqk79 has been copied to erxz.com/pb/616
21:49 lumi_ is now known as lumi
luqui if you assume a ; on the inner gather, then there's a ; inside an array, which is bad 21:49
s/array/array constructor/
TimToady but we don't have to assume it there
luqui the reason we don't is because it's inside an array constructor? 21:50
TimToady because the gather already slurps the block and treats it as an arg
just as $x = do {...} + 3 does
luqui $x = do { 1 } 21:51
+3
say $x; # 1
er, semicolon after the +3
is that not the issue we're talking about? 21:52
TimToady that would imply ; after } because it's outer level.
luqui okay, so it seems that my assessment is correct, even though you're not telling me so
21:52 debugger| joined
luqui the reason we don't assume a ; after the gather is because it's not outer-level 21:53
debugger| hey pbuetow :D
pbuetow Halluh!
21:53 pbuetow is now known as buetow
debugger| <--- bLader 21:53
luqui aha! it wasn't my fault, I just exposed a bug that was already there! :-)
my $x = [ do { 1 }
+ 3 ];
# parse error
TimToady cool
Ovid: I think the "is copy" on slurpy arrays at least can eventually go away. 21:54
it's just the elements that are readonly, not the array itself.
much as @_ in Perl 5 works
Ovid That would be very handy. "99 Problems" are much more concise without "is copy" all over the place.
TimToady interesting other question is whether $x = [ do stuff(); ] is legal. 21:55
Ovid I'm only up to 22, though. Christmas shopping for family members I've only just met. Very stressful.
TimToady because if that works, then this is possible: 21:58
sub group2 (*@a is copy) {
gather while @a {
take [
gather loop (my $h = @a[0]; @a and $h eq @a[0]; take shift @a) {}
]
}
}
luqui hmm... 21:59
svnbot6 r14923 | luqui++ | Added test for auto-semicolon not at top level bug.
luqui that is spooky to me
TimToady is $x = [ do stuff(); ] spooky to you? 22:00
luqui yeah
TimToady don't see how it's much different from $x = [ do {...} ] 22:01
distinguishing from $x = [ do {...} + 1 ]
luqui yeah... but...
TimToady ] is a know escape from the current subparse 22:02
*known
luqui it looks wrong. I suppose that is the big difference
TimToady well, you could presumably leave out the semi and say $x = [ do stuff() ] and get the same effect
22:03 Snafoo joined
TimToady but parsewide stuff() is at the statement level. 22:03
s/wide/wise
luqui uh huh
does that imply: my $x = do stuff();; 22:04
is correct, and only one semi would be wrong?
TimToady don't think so
one statement termination does for both. 22:05
have to bracket to get it to work otherwise
basically on that level do, gather, try etc are just modifiers on the following statement. 22:06
luqui $x = do [ stuff(), 3 ] # how is this parsed?
er
$x = [ do stuff(), 3 ] 22:07
TimToady presumabably the same as $x = [ do { stuff(), 3 } ]
luqui so do is really loose binding
TimToady $x = try gather contend do stuff(); # still only one ; 22:08
luqui and $x = do foo for 1..5; is the same as $x = do { foo for 1..5 };
TimToady yes
luqui okay
Ovid No matter how many times I run this function (rafb.net/paste/results/j1xXsN10.html), the final result is always ("a", "a", "a"). is this a bug or am I doing something stupid? It's supposed to return $count number of random elements from a list. 22:09
luqui hmm.. I guess I don't see how the ; is part of the statement
buubot The paste j1xXsN10 has been copied to erxz.com/pb/617
TimToady well, in a sense it isn't.
it's just a terminator
luqui right, it's at the statement list level, not the statement level 22:10
so I guess that is why I don't buy $ x = [ do stuff(); ]
unless that ; is a multidimensional array separator (uh... is it?)
(I don't actually remember how the multidimensional stuff turned out)
TimToady Ovid: well, pick(3) is specced to do that but is unimplemented. 22:11
luqui Ovid, maybe I don't grok your code... why @list[ @list [... 22:12
TimToady yeah, that part doesn't make sense to me either. 22:13
luqui it seems @list :: int -> Str, so you can't index it with its own return
Ovid Ah, sheesh. Thanks luqui. That will teach me not to do 99 Problems while drinking Rum-n-Coke :)
Sorry for the stupidity.
TimToady try Sprite instead.
and maybe Vodka...
jrockway Ovid: go for the espresso + coke + coffee icecubes someone posted on their use perl; journal :) 22:14
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TimToady well, even if ; were a multidimensional array separator, there's nothing after it to separate. 22:14
Ovid Well, I'm out of Laphroaigh, so this is all I got (and Laphroaig is cheaper on this side of the pond)
luqui okay, so I don't buy [ do stuff(); ] 22:15
TimToady I think using ; as statement terminator eats it up for other purposes, so it would never be interpreted as a dim sep 22:16
luqui it's a _separator_, not a terminator
TimToady no, it's an optional terminator.
luqui hm. is this essentially correct: 22:17
TimToady it's optional where } and eof make it obviously missing.
not difficult to add ] to that list when there [...] outside.
luqui stmtlist ::= stmt ; stmtlist | stmt
stmt ::= (empty) | ...
barring the dwimmery 22:18
TimToady gotta go to $job, unfortunately... 22:19
luqui kay 22:20
it'll make me stop arguing and start fixing this bug
:-)
TimToady ^_^
ja ne. &
Ovid See you. Thanks for your help.
jrockway btw, while there's life in the channel :) is this correct: 22:21
?eval (1,2,3) >>+<< 1
evalbot_r14923 (2, 3, 4)
luqui yeah
TimToady not according to current spec
luqui oh
jrockway right, that's what I thought
luqui you changed it again!
TimToady but current spec is not implemented
jrockway it shoudl be >>+>> 1
luqui ack!
Ovid :)
jrockway the pointy things point to what you want to be dwim'd
xpika ?eval (1,2,3) >>*<< 2
evalbot_r14923 (2, 4, 6) 22:22
TimToady >>+<< does no dwimmery
xpika ?eval (1..100) >>*<< 2
evalbot_r14923 (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, 44, 46, 48, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 60, 62, 64, 66, 68, 70, 72, 74, 76, 78, 80, 82, 84, 86, 88, 90, 92, 94, 96, 98, 100, 102, 104, 106, 108, 110, 112, 114, 116, 118, 120, 122, 124, 126, 128, 130, 132, 134, 136, 138, 140, 142, 144, 146, 148, 150, 152, 154, 156, 158, 160, 162, 164, 166, 168, 170, 172, 174, 176, 178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200)
luqui by no dwimmery, you mean that it doesn't autoexpand?
jrockway xpika: yes, it works for lists that are more than 3 elements long :)
TimToady correct.
later &
jrockway so should i fix the tests for this then?
luqui with :todo<feature> ? 22:23
22:23 Aankhen`` joined
jrockway there are tests for >>+<< DWIM-ing 22:23
those should fail 22:24
and >>+>> should pass
as should <<+>>, i guess
22:24 buetow left
jrockway i'll wait until tomorrow, because it's difficult to work with unicode on the machine i'm at right now (cygwin, ugh...) 22:27
?eval 1 <<+>> 1 22:31
evalbot_r14923 Error: ␤Unexpected "<<+>>"␤expecting operator
Ovid There's no .shuffle method for arrays specced, is there? 22:32
luqui No. Though I don't see why there shouldn't be. 22:33
obra That'd make a nice cpan6 sample module demonstrating how to extend a base type
luqui touche
obra So, luqui, what's brought you back to six-land? 22:34
luqui school ending
Ovid I was wondering that myself :) 22:35
luqui this is finals weeks
s/s$//
and I'm taking the spring off
jrockway to work on perl6 exclusively? :) 22:36
svnbot6 r14924 | luqui++ | Auto-semicolon was too liberal with statementizers (like "do" and "gather").
r14924 | luqui++ | Fixed that, hopefully without breaking the statementizers (the tests in
r14924 | luqui++ | t/syntax passed, at least).
luqui uh no
I'd love to, but need $$ 22:37
Ovid So, er, I'm looking at perlcabal.org/syn/ and I don't see the syntax for extending base types. What do I look at? (and is it implemented?)
lambdabot Title: Official Perl 6 Documentation
luqui Ovid, it's just like extending non-base types
"is also" I believe
jrockway S12, btw
obra luqui: nice. congrats on getting some free time :)
and welcome back 22:38
luqui thanks. Don't get your hopes up; last time I was back it wasn't for very long
it's not clear that this time will be different
but I hope it will be
Ovid luqui: I know that you've had ups and downs here, but I really hope you stick with it. 22:39
So where would I find the syntax for extending non-base types?
luqui it's not really "here" that is the problem
it's elsewhere
I like this community :-)
Ovid, S12 somewhere
Ovid And most of us like you too :)
Ah, I see it. 22:40
luqui S12 line 1515, section "Open vs Closed classes"
wolverian wasn't .pick supposed to work as a shuffle if you do @foo.pick(@foo.elems) or so? 22:41
jrockway ?eval class Str is also { method length { self.chars } }; "foo".length 22:42
evalbot_r14923 3
luqui wolverian, yeah, that would do it
jrockway awesome :)
wolverian ?eval ("a".."c").pick(3)
evalbot_r14924 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&pick"
luqui wolverian, working on that now 22:43
jrockway ?eval my @foo; for all(1..10){ push @foo, $_ }; @foo
evalbot_r14924 Error: ␤Unexpected ";"␤expecting term postfix, operator or block construct
jrockway something like that could technically shuffle the list
?eval my @foo; for all(1..10){ push @foo, $_ } @foo
evalbot_r14924 Error: ␤Unexpected "@foo"␤expecting operator or block construct
jrockway ENOSLEEP :) 22:46
oh, also... should this work: 22:47
my @data = (1,2,3); my @out; @data ==> map { 42 } ==> @out; @out;
?eval my @data = (1,2,3); my @out; @data ==> map { 42 } ==> @out; @out;
evalbot_r14924 Error: ␤Unexpected " map"
TimToady pick is specced in docs/Perl6/Spec/Functions.pod 22:50
Ovid Is "is also" not yet implemented? 22:51
TimToady feeds aren't really implemented yet.
wolverian luqui++
TimToady Ovid: dunno.
syntactically, though @data ==> is very much like do in taking a bare Code on the right. 22:53
Ovid Looks like it's recognized, but broken. This prints "[]" twice: rafb.net/paste/results/0h3itz58.html (syntax from perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html) 22:54
buubot The paste 0h3itz58 has been copied to erxz.com/pb/618
jrockway Ovid: is also appeared to work above, right? 22:55
Ovid jrockway? Where? 22:56
jrockway ?eval class Str is also { method length { self.chars } }; "foo".length
evalbot_r14924 3
jrockway ?eval "foo".length
evalbot_r14924 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&length"
TimToady ?eval class Foo { say "hi" }; class Foo { say "lo" }
evalbot_r14924 OUTPUT[hi␤lo␤] Bool::True
jrockway Ovid: are you thinking of something else? 22:58
TimToady ?eval class Str { method length { self.chars } }; "foo".length 22:59
evalbot_r14924 3
TimToady I'd say "is also" is currently the default.
jrockway the spec says that should warn or error though
class redefinition
and redefinition implies replace 23:00
Ovid Not sure if evalbot recognizes that spread over multiple lines. (Oh, it looks like it might). All I know is that I tried to implement .shuffle for the Array class and it failed miserably. I don't know if it's me or Pugs.
jrockway ?eval my @array = (1,2,3); @array.WHAT
evalbot_r14924 ::Array
luqui I can't say I like .WHAT, .WHO, etc. very much. They are not very descriptive 23:01
jrockway ?eval class Array is also { method shuffle { (1,2,3) } }; (3,1,2).shuffle
evalbot_r14924 (1, 2, 3)
luqui (.WHERE isn't too bad)
jrockway :)
time to head home &
23:07 seano joined
svnbot6 r14925 | luqui++ | Implemented @list.pick(num). 23:09
luqui ?eval [1,2,3].pick(2) 23:14
evalbot_r14924 Error: No compatible subroutine found: "&pick"
svnbot6 r14926 | luqui++ | Made pick faster. 23:15
luqui next step: implement >>.pick for infinite lists, using the axiom of choice 23:18
sayonara
Ovid I have no idea, but when I run "make realclean" with Pugs and it hits the line "mv Makefile Makefile.old > /dev/null 2>&1", I have to hit "return/enter" to make it continue (mac os x). Anyone know why?
23:28 polettix joined 23:30 gnuvince joined 23:39 luqui joined
TimToady Ovid: is your mv aliased to mv -i? 23:45
jrockway do shell aliases apply to makefiles?
23:46 Psyche^ joined
TimToady who knows on a mac... 23:46
Ovid TimTodoady: no.
TimToady acts like it...
does it hang if you rm Makefile.old first?
py1hon could change it to mv -f in the makefile
jrockway that sounds right 23:47
Ovid I'll have to wait for a bit. Rebuilding pugs again.
jrockway otherwise it will prompt
actually, i'm looking at the GNU mv manpage
openbsd's mv is the same though... that could be the issue
maybe redirect dev null to stdin also?
TimToady course, if it takes it as "false"... 23:48
jrockway acutally, "mv -f Makefile Makefile.old" seems cleanest
yeah
py1hon that wouldn't help, it'd hang and hitting enter wouldn't do anything
23:48 Snafoo joined
jrockway not having makefile.old doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world 23:48
py1hon: no, getchar will fail
EOF
py1hon oh, der
jrockway /dev/null is a stream of EOFs :)
py1hon yeah, i knew that ;p
jrockway it would be the same as hitting C-d 23:49
23:49 Snafoo left
py1hon so, is there anything usefull a c coder could do? 23:50
jrockway parrot 23:51
py1hon how is that these days? last i looked (awhile ago) it was still in the "rapid work by mostly one person" phase 23:52
TimToady they've actually managed to diversify that somewhat now 23:53
jrockway no, there are lots of people involved now
jnthn py1hon: If the "mostly one person" you refer to is who I think you are, that person isn't so involved now.
Due to $WORK_STUFF
jrockway plenty of stuff for people new to the project to do :)
jnthn Come join the fun! irc.perl.org, #parrot :-)
jrockway how come #parrot is on MagNET and perl6 is on Freenode?
TimToady why not? 23:54
jnthn :-)
py1hon jnthn, possibly, i'm having trouble remembering names

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