pugscode.org | temporary feather address: perl6.wall.org | sial.org/pbot/perl6 | ?eval [~] <m oo se> | We do Haskell, too | > reverse (show (scanl (*) 1 [1..] !! 4))
Set by allbery_b on 24 March 2007.
avar avar@Arsia:~$ pugs -e 'for split /^/, "a\nb\n" -> $i { print $i }' 01:17
a
b
avar@Arsia:~$ pugs -e 'for split /^^/, "a\nb\n" -> $i { print $i }'
a
b
isn't it only ^^ that's line beginning?
svnbot6 r15836 | Darren_Duncan++ | added ext/QDRDBMS/, which is a rewrite of ext/Rosetta/ (the latter to be removed before the next Pugs release) ... the files of this initial commit are identical to the current Perl 5 version in version control, that is set to be released to CPAN soon, and I will be s///ing Pugs' version into Perl 6 code within the next day 01:23
Limbic_Region just dealt with the best customer service ever 01:37
Tene orly? 01:38
Who?
Limbic_Region Linksys 01:39
Limbic_Region was more than a little suprised
Limbic_Region assumes the significant recent changes require a realclean? 01:44
Limbic_Region ?seen audreyt 02:15
lambdabot audreyt is in #perl6 and #haskell. I last heard audreyt speak 1d 20h 17m 58s ago.
Lorn hi 03:09
spinclad ?eval for split /^/, "a\nb\n" -> $i { print ":$i" } 03:52
evalbot_r15831 OUTPUT[:a:␤:b:␤] undef
spinclad ?eval for split /^^/, "a\nb\n" -> $i { print ":$i" } 03:53
evalbot_r15831 OUTPUT[:a:␤:b:␤] undef
spinclad interesting. expected [:a␤b␤] or such. 03:54
or rather, expect that for split /^/, like avar said. 03:58
avar perhaps this is a bug or a special exception, split /^/ wouldn't be very useful .. 04:01
gaal @tell szabgab you also need the libghc6-network-dev package... 04:21
lambdabot Consider it noted.
szabgab @tell gaal thanks, now Pugs builds 06:31
lambdabot Consider it noted.
svnbot6 r15837 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : made some updates to SeeAlso.pod 06:49
svnbot6 r15838 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : did a bunch of s///ing Perl 5 code and docs into Perl 6 08:05
svnbot6 r15839 | franck++ | r21189@franck-mbp: franck | 2007-04-07 11:29:50 +0200 09:35
r15839 | franck++ | tests for fetch and store
moritz moose 10:14
svnbot6 r15840 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : continued s///ing Perl 5 code into Perl 6 code 10:23
svnbot6 r15841 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : in AST.pm, split Expr type into 3 10:38
__Ace__ damn, this is so cool.. embedding perl in C 14:38
and its quite easy too
TimToady: what is the license on the application if I embed the perl interpreter? 14:39
:)
xinming __Ace__: gpl 14:40
__Ace__ oki
integral err, surely it could be Artistic too? 14:41
__Ace__ which means? 14:42
xinming integral: yes, But you have to ask author about the permission. 14:43
integral ah
__Ace__ so damn cool... so, this means I can do C programming, but still use Perl stuff :) 14:44
xinming integral: we are not lawyer... so, I don't know.. But, It's just kind of guess. :-P 14:45
__Ace__ thats why asked the creator himselves :) he should know 14:46
moritz __Ace__: perl is community project ;-) 15:44
__Ace__ even perl5?
moritz __Ace__: just take a look at the list of authors ;-) 15:51
zcat AUTHORS.gz |wc -l 15:53
860
__Ace__ ok, let put it this way. if one do something cool, you think there will be alot of $ doners? ;) 15:59
pmurias doners == donors? 16:02
__Ace__ yes :)
not saying I am, just wondering 16:04
moritz __Ace__: it depends on how usefull that is...
people tend not to donate just because something is cool
pmurias audreyt is, and she still has to have a day job
moritz but if something is _really_ cool, you can build a successfull website and earn money from the website - sometimes 16:05
like the guy who invented the flying spaghetti monster ;-)
perlmonkey2 I would have thought the Perl Foundation would have raised 10's of millions for p6. 16:14
And that the core of the p6 dev team would be fully funded. 16:15
moritz I think it's not that easy raising so much funds 16:17
Khisanth somewhere someone in TPF is ROFLing
moritz or wheeping ;-) 16:18
perlmonkey2 p6 needs a professional fundraiser. there are oceans of money in the world, and p6 could fully fund the core dev team with ~ a few hundred thousand/year. 16:20
moritz actually audreyt would need only 3k US$/month to work full time on pugs 16:21
perlmonkey2 That isn't very much..... 16:22
perlmonkey2 ponders putting some effort into sending donation traffic at TPF. 16:23
moritz donate.pugscode.org/ 16:24
lambdabot Title: Perl6 Community Development Server
moritz that's not what it should be
perlmonkey2 That appears to be a problem. 16:25
Also, people don't like to work under short-term grants. No security in it.
moritz perlmonkey2: audreyt is an exception, here $job is very flexible 16:26
perlmonkey2 is checking out online advertising prices. 16:27
__Ace__ uh, anyone here using irssi? 16:30
Khisanth hrm that page doesn't mention sshfs
__Ace__ how to connect to a new server without disconnecting from this one+
?
Khisanth /server with some flag? 16:31
moritz __Ace__: just /connect
__Ace__ ah
perlmonkey2 wonders what types of websites perl fanboys visit.
moritz __Ace__: at least that works for me
perlmonkey2: perlmonks, use.perl.org ;-)
perlmonkey2: slashdot
Khisanth heh
__Ace__ digg
:)
moritz (in Germany) heise
myspace.com 16:32
just kidding ;-)
__Ace__ and rarely google.com
;)
perlmonkey2 slashdot....excellent. Lately you can get free adertisements posted as articles. Someone write a article about p6's Spring fundraiser and about how the project is on schedule for Xmas 1.0.
eumenides slashdot? seriously? 16:33
perlmonkey2 first the article needs be on use.perl
moritz perlmonkey2: what we really need is a new pugs release, and then a /. article about that
perlmonkey2 the focus should be the Spring fundraiser.....the point of this project is to raise development funds. 16:34
moritz Juerd: can feather handle a /. "attack"?
perlmonkey2 a new pugs release would be great candy to add to the post. 16:34
moritz perlmonkey2: well, it has to have some _news_ in it 16:35
__Ace__ uh
ok... so, now when I am connected..
how do I tell to join on that particular server?
moritz 16:36
perlmonkey2 I think I'll email whatever department on campus teaches advertising and ask if their top students want to make a few bucks.
moritz __Ace__: /join -freenode #perl6 16:36
__Ace__ and how to display which ones Im connected to? 16:37
moritz __Ace__: /server
__Ace__ aha, thanks 16:39
Juerd moritz: Depends on the kind of attack :) 17:30
moritz: In general, there's exactly one way to find out
moritz Juerd: good point ;) 17:32
rindolf Hi all. 17:50
lichtkind "The best technical paper at the annual Perl Conference was subsequently named in his honour" does that mean that this prize is named after him ? 20:36
moritz seems like 20:37
lichtkind cool
moritz lichtkind: are you editing the Perl article on the German wikipedia? 21:09
lichtkind yes its mostly my work
thatswhy i ask here tim toady the weird questions
moritz lichtkind: in the part on perl 6 you are inconsequent in respect to "Perl6" and "Perl 6" 21:10
I think the latter is correct
lichtkind what ja mean?
moritz lichtkind: the space ;-)
lichtkind ah the space between
hm
moritz should I just correct that?
lichtkind tu dir kein zwang an
the problem is that that chapter is linked 21:11
youd have to correct some links too
and chapterlinks arent traceable
moritz ok, I mostly corrected it 21:12
lichtkind goot i try to fix the links :) 21:15
what you think about the text?
moritz I just fixed the spellin in the "Kritik" section ;-)
lichtkind: I'm still reading ;-)
lichtkind hm in the other section i wrote also perl6
someone else changed it :) 21:16
i always pleased of comments
moritz all in all it's really good - perhaps a bit long for a classical "Lexikon" ;-) 21:17
lichtkind it wikipedia :) 21:18
its
thanks
but its nearly not finished
1h ago i wrote de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damian_Conway
moritz I know that wikipedia is rather known for verbosity than for shortness ;-)
lichtkind but thats nothing bad 21:20
wiki is no paper
and every long articel has a short summary at beginning 21:21
every good long ..
moritz also keine verbesserungsvorschläge? 21:27
moritz lichtkind: bbiab, phone&
lichtkind k 21:28
Tene Ahh... It's so good to have linux and pugs back on my laptop. 21:42
lichtkind good tene :) 21:48
lichtkind moritz: fertsch? 22:25
moritz lichtkind: ja, keine Ahnregungen :( 22:26
lichtkind macht nichts
ich weiss was ich noch vorhab
bin froh das grob gesehen erstmal alles drin ist im artikel
dmq happy easter perl6 22:50
lichtkind hello dmq glad to see you 22:51
dmq gesegnete ostern
dmq gleich falss 22:52
avar wook!
dmq ;-)
dmq is embarrsed to admit he doesnt know how to spell "fals"
dmq is barassed to admit he cant sepell embarrsed either 22:53
allbery_b @spell embarrassed
lambdabot embarrassed
allbery_b :)
OwlEye lichtkind, m􏿽xF6gen sich deine eier blau f􏿽xE4rben :P 22:54
lichtkind dmq falls
OwlEye: wovon ?
OwlEye lichtkind, wei􏿽xDF nicht :) 22:55
lichtkind OwlEye: ich kenne frauen nur aus büchern
dmq ich hab ein blauer eier. nur ein mal. :-)
OwlEye lichtkind, lol
lichtkind dmq: i was really impressed from your work 22:57
OwlEye: das kannst du mir glauben
dmq welches? 22:59
OwlEye knuddelt lichtkind
lichtkind dmq on per5 regex engine
dmq ach, danke.
:-) 23:00
we all stand on the shoulders of giants
lichtkind dmq true but you did good work what is always a pleasure to see
dmq thanks lichtkind 23:02
alwyas nice to know people appreciate ones work
avar dmq: Hey, get off my regex engine!
dmq all your regex engines are belonging to ME! 23:03
:-)
avar ookook
dmq still, your efforts are much appreciated avar.
sorry if this week i haent been so helpful. 23:04
avar :)
dmq lots of stuff on the go
avar yeah, stupid @stuff ..
lichtkind dmq what does avar do?
dmq we need to figure out a way to handle perl6 style capturs 23:05
lichtkind in perl 5?
avar I figured that out already, you just won't accept my omnipotent suggestions:)
dmq lichtkind: he hacks OTHER engines. And gives me heatburn, and makes me think, and generally pushes the regex engine in the right direction
no no, im accepting them. just being the "sober second thought" 23:06
avar :)
dmq www.cbc.ca/newsinreview/apr98/senate/citizen.htm 23:07
lambdabot Title: A Citizen&#146;s Sober Second Thought
dmq hopefully ill get back to hacking the regex engine next week
lichtkind dmq if you dont mind i thought a lot about you after our ride because you thinking is in many ways different but you have passion to do thing right and that i admire 23:08
dmq "think outside of the box" 23:09
svnbot6 r15842 | Darren_Duncan++ | ext/QDRDBMS/ : more s///ing Perl 5 code into Perl 6 code
dmq :-)
avar: it would be cool to come up with a sane representation for perl6 style capture buffer numbering that can map to perl5 style. 23:11
avar with the perl5 engine?
dmq "sane" being the key wod.
yes
it would be nice to supply a perl6 style interface to the capture buffers 23:12
IMO
god (or Larry) only knows how it would work, but cest la vie.
:-)
dmq has horrific mental images of nested tied constructs 23:13
avar I don't see how you'd map the regex byte code to that, hrm
Juerd dmq: Perl 6 doesn't have tie... >:) 23:14
dmq its gotta be possible to map nested style to incremental style.
Juerd It just has variables that do roles that have methods that override. :)
dmq the question is how to make the p5 actually do something useful with it
i was thinking maybe use pseudo hash notation for it instead of true nested arrays. :-) 23:15
$/{1;0;1;2} 23:16
avar why not use true nested arrays?
dmq or however it works i forget right now
avar fastah?
dmq because nested arrays imply constructing the full tree at match time, but using the hash notation means that you can do a tie
pr doing extremely evil tie stuff. 23:17
avar you can have a tied nested array
:) 23:18
dmq i thought you couldnt
actually if im right maybe THATS something to fix for perl 5.10
a AUTOVIVY tied method. :-)
avar uh? not? that sucks
FETCH can't return []?
lichtkind Juerd perl6 dont have tie omd ponies 23:19
dmq I dont remember the details, and im a few pints too close to the wind to look them up if you know what i mean, but something to do with autovivification comes into play
avar autoviwhat? 23:20
dmq undef $ref->{$key}; $ref->{$key}{$subkey}=$foo; 23:21
autovivification
Limbic_Region cracks open a cold one and wonders about the etymology of the phrase "3 sheets to the wind"
avar auto-make keys?
dmq not that hard L~R 23:22
Limbic_Region eval: my %hash; if ($hash{foo}{bar}) { } \%hash;
buubot Limbic_Region: {foo => {}}
Limbic_Region autovivication 23:23
dmq you make a sail tight to the wind by pulling on its sheet. If you pulled 3 sheets you did somethign wrong. :-)
thanks L~R, thats a good example.
Limbic_Region that's the typical example of when you DON'T want autovivication to do what it does 23:24
dmq or maybe you dont care. 23:25
:-)
but no question, sometimes it can be "interesting"
avar that's really annoying 23:26
dmq iirc the problem is that autovivification doesnt propagate tiedness. 23:27
avar eval: my %hash; if (exists $hash{x}{y}{z}) {} \%hash
buubot avar: {x => {y => {}}}
Limbic_Region avar - yes, in p5 you must check each level in succession
avar stupid p5
dmq so you have a tied structure and you want $x->{y}{z} to tie "y" and "z" as appropriate, but what happens is that {z} gets stored as an anonymous hash, and isnt tied. 23:28
Limbic_Region I think I had this conversation with japhy once and prompted him to create an autotie module 23:29
Limbic_Region looks
yep
Tie::Autotie
used in Tie::IxHash::Easy
dmq mutters that it seems like its something that the core should deal with 23:30
Limbic_Region *shrug*
dmq i was thinking we should support an AUTOVIVIFY method. 23:31
Limbic_Region you mean for perl 5 or perl 6?
dmq perl5 23:32
perl 6 presumably will do all of this in a sane way and we wont worry about crap like tie hooks.
Limbic_Region dmq - to be quite frank, I don't want anymore new features for 5.10, I want 5.10 out the door yesterday 23:33
dmq did i say 5.10?
although, why not 5.10 :-) 23:34
dmq wonders how big a hack it would be.
Limbic_Region well, it has now been 5 years 23:35
dmq yes well, a lot of water under the bridge and all that
avar more 5.10 features!:) 23:37
dmq thinking of other things id rather delay a bit and make sure things are right than push it out right this second.
avar but ya, development is sloooow:)
Limbic_Region dmq - I am thinking more along the lines of code freeze for the purposes of ironing things out so it can get out the door 23:39
dmq for instance avar has been working on the regex engine, and id rather 5.10 has a good API in that regard before 5.10 than wait for 5.12
Limbic_Region dmq - rather than just saying ship it now in whatever state it is in
kattana_ :o regex engines are relevant to my interests **currently hacking on their own**
Limbic_Region but I keep hearing about new features
avar mm, features
dmq features arent necessarily a big deal (IMO), sometimes they are, sometimes they arent.
things are more nuanced than that. you can add a new feature in a few hours if you know the right things and know what you want. whats important is deeper issues like API's and abstraction layers and stuff like that. 23:41
Limbic_Region I can see we will just have to disagree on this one
kattana_ indeed, or midway through adding a new feature you have to rewrite big chunks
Limbic_Region from my perspective, it doesn't matter how long it takes to implement nor how much of a risk it is
at some point you have to say - no more - otherwise you are in a perpetual state of development 23:42
and for the guys developing and using bleed, that probably isn't so bad
for the poor schmucks who need an official release to be out for a year or more before their shop will adopt it - it is excruciating
dmq naw its not a matter of disagreeing really, its more a question of having a good handle on what kind of impacts things can have. Big things often have low impact because they are big, subtle things however can have HUGE impacts.
pasteling "moritz" at 80.193.211.68 pasted "short grammer - why is "add_op" => () ?" (43 lines, 949B) at sial.org/pbot/24076 23:43
avar dmq: I was thinking about perlapi functions to deal with regexp stuff
like SvRXOK()
dmq interesting thought avar.
L~R, i can see what you mean. 23:45
dmq The thing is there are some things you really want to get right on a major release. Once you release a major version you have to be binary compatible with all minor releases in that major version. Which means if you get something wrong it can take a long time to fix it. 23:47
Limbic_Region dmq - look, I can understand that. I can also understand how difficult it must be for the pumpking wrangling each contributors personal objectives 23:49
I am not trying to propose an implementation plan roadmap or anything structured like that
but still - folks need to see perl competing with the other languages come lately 23:50
moritz
.oO( and if perl 5.10 is released in the next two months it might make it into Debian 4.1 Lenny ;-)Oo.
 23:51
dmq newcomers advantage
we have to play behind the scenes and make it look like nothing has changed
avar did ruby even exist when 5.8 came out?:) 23:53
moritz ruby was released '95 23:55
5.8 was 2002 23:56
avar: nice try ;-)
dmq whats seven years amongst friends? 23:57
moritz more than half of a decade ;-)
time enough to decay (no pun intended)
dmq feh. in geological terms its nothing.
:-)
Limbic_Region actually 5.8 came out about the time I started with perl (2002-07-11) 23:59

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