»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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MasterDuke Demos[m]: re signature for boolean returning functions, does the conversation here colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...09-30#l435 help? 00:14
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MasterDuke Demos[m]: or this doc page docs.perl6.org/type/Signature#Cons..._Callables ? 00:19
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i0n what is rakudo star? 01:34
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k-man are the half width corner brackets for literal strings something i can type somehow? 04:01
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geekosaur docs.perl6.org/language/unicode_entry 04:42
although you may have to either find a perl 6-customized keyboard layout or figure out how to do e.g. hex key entry. or keyboard macros, etc. 04:43
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AlexDaniel geekosaur: heh, you listed some of the worst options :) 05:16
compose key is easy to setup, configure and use
geekosaur as implied by 'may have to'
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k-man geekosaur, i sure wen't down a rabbit hole on that one 05:57
i went down the compose key alley 05:58
but i found my terms don't seem to respect it properly
thankfully emacs seems to work
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geekosaur on linux you often have to tweak something to enable toolkits to use it. in mate its in control center -> keyboard input methods. 06:03
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k-man geekosaur, yeah its working, it works in gedit - but not properly in my gnome-terminal 06:04
couldn't work out why in the end
so i gave up
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Xliff m: my enum <A B C>; my %h; %h{A B C} = <a b C>; %h.gist.say 06:06
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Two terms in a row
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my enum <A B C>; my %h; %h{A7⏏5 B C} = <a b C>; %h.gist.say
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
statement end
…
Xliff m: my enum <A B C>; my %h; %h{A} = 'a'; %h{B} = 'b'; %h{C} = 'c'; %h.gist.say; 06:07
camelia {A => a, B => b, C => c}
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Xliff m: my enum <A B C>; my %h; %h{A.Int} = 'a'; %h{B.Int} = 'b'; %h{C.Int} = 'c'; %h.gist.say; 06:07
camelia {0 => a, 1 => b, 2 => c}
geekosaur check for an input methods right-button menu 06:08
lookatme_q m: enum < A >; say A.WHAT 06:16
camelia ()
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Geth Pod-To-HTML: finanalyst++ created pull request #46:
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Geth Pod-To-HTML: e80425c01a | finanalyst++ | lib/Pod/To/HTML.pm
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 08:11
Pod-To-HTML: a07bb780b9 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | lib/Pod/To/HTML.pm
Merge pull request #46 from finanalyst/master

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scimon So after giving a talk about command line scripts with Perl6 last night I get home read my email and find out the bit I did about Auto Documentation is already out of date. 08:36
yoleaux 08:10Z <lizmat> scimon: what you told about yesterday will continue to work until at least 5.e
08:14Z <lizmat> scimon: and judging from your slides, you didn't mention the internals apart from $*USAGE, and that will stay
08:14Z <lizmat> scimon: all changes are under the hood for all of your viewers
scimon lizmat: I guess you meant 6.e ? 08:37
lizmat scimon: so what part is out of date ?
6.e, yeah, duh :-)
scimon Will you still be able to query $*USAGE ? Looking at the code changes I wasn't sure? If so I think it's OK :)
lizmat yes, $*USAGE continues to work 08:38
but indeed, let me add tests for that
scimon I think it went over well with people. :)
jmerelo scimon: great. Guess you'll publish, or have already published it, somewhere, right?
scimon The slides are up on Slideshare. Video will hopefully be published later. 08:42
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jmerelo scimon++ 08:44
scimon www.slideshare.net/SimonProctor8/p...-scripting 08:45
moritz twot 08:48
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scimon twot? 08:59
lizmat as in retweeted
scimon Ah.
lizmat twitter.com/perl6org/status/1050669455993319425 09:00
scimon I thought it meant total waste of time.
lizmat he... :-)
there are people who call Twitter that I guess :-)
scimon (And as at least two other tw[vowel]t words in English are swear words).
And twut probably is too. 09:01
moritz scimon: sorry for the confusion, I just tried to be funny :)
scimon Pas de probleme
(My French is bad too) ;)
moritz c'est tres bien
lizmat de rienn
arg 09:02
bounncy n
moritz rhianna? :)
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scimon Well my Step Daughter is Rhiannon 09:02
(I'm not sure about the colour scheme. I wanted to move away from Black and White but I think some of my highlights need work). 09:03
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timotimo scimon: do you think any of the flags that aren't in perl6 but are in perl5 would be important to have in perl6? like i assume -0 is for splitting input on \0 and outputting entries separated by \0 as well? 09:43
leont Running into «Expected MAST::Frame, but didn't get one» (on latest Rakudo release), not understanding at all what's going on 09:44
yoleaux 10 Oct 2018 19:04Z <lizmat> leont: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/33c241532b
timotimo leont: the compiler is exploding 09:45
leont That must was obvious
(or actually the VM)
lizmat will clone and look at the fallout
timotimo well, at least it's probably not something in your code, at least not directly 09:46
lizmat leont: which code creates the explosion ?
leont Thing is, it dies on «use TAP;», where in other places (like prove6) that works fine
timotimo have you tried deleting all precomp files? 09:47
leont Got a one-liner for that? 09:48
(not sure where "all" is)
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timotimo if you use RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG (or something similar) i believe it will print details including what precomp files it's loading perhaps? 09:49
not sure if that's a good idea
lizmat leont: I just re-installed Tap::Harness (right?) and 'use TAP' does not do anything strange for me 09:55
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lizmat m: PRE { say "pre"; False } # try catching that :-) 10:08
camelia pre
Precondition '{ say "pre"; False }' failed
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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woolfy Hi all, some sad news. We just got informed by FOSDEM that Perl will not get a devroom at FOSDEM 2019. I wrote a blog about it: wendyga.wordpress.com/2018/10/12/n...sdem-2019/ 10:10
To all who sent us a talk proposal: thank you. Maybe you can try to get into the main halls. The deadline for sending in talk proposals is end of tomorrow, Saturday, October 13: fosdem.org/2019/news/2018-08-10-ca...icipation/
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leont lizmat: not getting it in one-liners or scripts, only modules… 10:12
lizmat could you gist the code ?
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leont Really just «use TAP;» in a .pm6 is enough to trigger it 10:14
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lizmat $ perl6 -I. -MFoo -e '' 10:16
===SORRY!===
Tap is a builtin type, not an external module
where Foo.pm6 is 'use TAP'
leont Huh 10:17
Tap != TAP
lizmat argh yes
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lizmat $ perl6 -I. -MFoo -e 'say "hello world"' 10:17
hello world
aka, none of the breakage you're seeing :-( 10:18
leont Weird
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lizmat indeed 10:18
I assume you are on HEAD, right ?
scimon timotimo: So off the top of my head -i would be nice -a and -F could be interesting but the one I personally would really like it -E being an alias for -e . 10:21
timotimo -E being an alias for -e?
scimon Yup.
timotimo like, literally no difference between the two?
scimon Yup
timotimo as a non-perl5-er i don't like it :)
lizmat yeah, if you're coming from perl 5, you got used to using '-E' if you wanted to be able to 'say' something 10:22
scimon Because I write Command line stuff in both Perl5 and Perl6 and like say
(I'm not that bothered. I'm now at the point I'm MORE likely use -e and say in Perl5 then use -E in Perl6. But it would be a nice little treat for others).
leont I'm on 2018.09 release 10:23
scimon Of all the ones I mentioned I think -i might be the most useful.
lizmat leont: a *lot* has happened since then..
scimon the number of times I've done perl -i~ -lpe 's/something/else/g' * in my life is quite high.
leont Ah, I see 10:24
lizmat I mean, *really* a *lot*
El_Che bad news: wendyga.wordpress.com/2018/10/12/n...sdem-2019/ 10:26
I sent a nice respose in the hope we can replace a devroom that can't fill their talks (we did that for .net some years ago) 10:27
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leont Might just wait until 2018.10 then. No point in releasing code people can't use anyway. 10:59
lizmat leont: well, I would like to know if the API I devised yesterday actually makes sense 11:00
or that I have overlooked somethinng
leont The Getopt one?
lizmat yeah
leont GENERATE-USAGE is the tricky one at this stage, I think 11:02
ARGS-TO-CAPTURE does the obvious thing 11:03
lizmat leont: why is GENERATE-USAGE the tricky one ? 11:04
leont Because reimplementing it hasn't been done before 11:05
But I think passing it Callable and Capture should be all that's needed, yeah
lizmat ah, well you *don't* have to
leont True, that is also good 11:06
lizmat all intercept vectors are optional
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lizmat and if you really want to go the whole nine yards, you can supply a RUN-MAIN 11:07
but at that point you're probably better off just not having a MAIN
I just realized
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AlexDaniel k-man: ah! I think I know that one 11:20
k-man: you need to
export GTK_IM_MODULE=xim
export QT_IM_MODULE=xim
or something like that
k-man: see this for more info unix.stackexchange.com/questions/2...ut-methods
I don't remember if this requires relogin or if you can just restart the application that doesn't work 11:21
this actually seems to be mentioned here: docs.perl6.org/language/unicode_en...l_programs 11:27
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holyghost My statistics package is ready, it's called Mathx::Stat, I'll post it next week on github 11:48
lizmat holyghost: and on CPAN I hope ? 11:50
holyghost Sure
lizmat ++holyghost
holyghost I can start the game statisical theory package I wanted to make 11:51
statistical chaos theory
For prospection with e.g. several variances 11:52
scimon lizmat: I'll ask again. (I've asked a couple of times here before) is hidden-from-USAGE isn't documented anywhere but as a fan of the auto generated usage I think it's kinda useful. Should it be documented or is it one of those things we don't talk about? 11:54
lizmat it's most definitely intended to be documented
I'l do that, as I'm rewriting the docs for MAIN at the moment into a separate "command line interface" chapter 11:55
scimon Neat. Means my mentioning it last night was OK :) 11:58
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lizmat yes, very much so 12:00
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scimon At this rate I think I may give basically the same talk but updated at the next LPM covering all the changes. 12:21
lizmat scimon: sounds like a plan :-) 12:28
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araraloren o| 12:36
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scimon p6: say Inf+1 > Inf 12:53
camelia False
scimon Awww.
:D
tobs` m: say 2**Inf > Inf 13:09
camelia False
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knation Has anyone done any web development with success using Cro or Bailador? 13:38
ufobat_ <- 13:39
jnthn <-
jnthn has multiple production Cro apps running
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lizmat blogs.perl.org/users/daniel_bohmer/...-35c3.html 13:41
weekly: blogs.perl.org/users/daniel_bohmer/...-35c3.html 13:42
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
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araraloren knation web spider ? 13:44
knation Sorry my browser got closed, so I may have missed a comment. But I have not heard/looked into web spider 13:45
[Coke] m: scimon: say Inf+1 == Inf
camelia True
araraloren How I can test the master branch of rakudo without install it ? 13:49
timotimo you must run rakudo from inside the source folder with ./perl6-m 13:50
araraloren timotimo After make ? 13:51
timotimo yeah
araraloren okay, I am trying 13:52
Xliff \o 13:53
timotimo not sure if it's actually a supported way to run it 13:54
Xliff What's the best way to pass callbacks to be used by NativeCall around in Perl 6? 13:55
I'm getting the following error paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/2ix~...rB5fGEKgQg 13:57
Better detail: paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/cPd~...Mlyg1-BkUw 13:59
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Geth doc: f540dff1f5 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/create-cli.pod6
First stab at a separate CLI information document

  - take the part about MAIN / USAGE from functions.pod6
  - take some time to introduce features and simplify examples
   There is no need showing off all sorts of Signature tricks here
  - document is hidden-from-USAGE
TODO: the new underlying MAIN implementation, and possibly also document the old one for reference. Also remove / alter documentation about MAIN
  /USAGE in functions.		 14:20
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/create-cli
lizmat please leave comments at the commit or create an issue :-) 14:21
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&
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Geth DBIish: rbt++ created pull request #135:
Feedback wanted: Temporary failure error handling		 15:55
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Geth doc: 7bcc0f214c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/create-cli.pod6
Handle remarks so far
 17:16
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/create-cli
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birdrock Hi all. I'm in Chapter 4 of Learning Perl6 today. 17:28
jmerelo birdrock: great!
birdrock ｢I need a keyboard with half-width corner brackets...｣ 17:29
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jmerelo birdrock: there are many ways to input that kind of thing, should you be interested :-) 17:29
birdrock I'm in the Windows world at work, so I just have to get comfy with the alt-code values for them... 17:30
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jmerelo birdrock: you can use WinCompse: docs.perl6.org/language/unicode_entry 17:31
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jmerelo ^compse^compose 17:31
birdrock Oh nice
Or I stick with the Perl5-ism Q/foobar/ 17:32
jmerelo birdrock: TIMTOWTDI
birdrock right
love those neato fancy characters tho 17:33
Geth doc: 2c831c2d15 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/IO.pod6
Adds an example, closes #2376
 17:34
doc: dcdaddccb2 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Hash.pod6
Comments on key/value ordering closes #2182
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/IO
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Hash
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b2gills .tell Xliff You need a : for defining a code parameter's parameters `sub ( &c:(Int,Int) ){}` 17:57
yoleaux b2gills: I'll pass your message to Xliff.
Xliff . 17:58
yoleaux 17:57Z <b2gills> Xliff: You need a : for defining a code parameter's parameters `sub ( &c:(Int,Int) ){}`
Xliff b2gills++ # Thanks, but that's not in the docs.
It's been `sub ( &c (Int, Int --> returned) )` for so long. I didn't get what the error message was saying. At any rate, that did NOT turn out to be the solution. 17:59
b2gills: Thanks for the help, though.
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Zoffix Xliff: it's in the Signature docs: docs.perl6.org/type/Signature.html..._Callables 18:12
Xliff: and the error message you receive even mentions it
birdrock > $num.name
Int
> $num.chars
334 18:13
Wow!
Zoffix "Perl 6: makes you go 'Wow!'" :)
birdrock ($num.^name)
++Zoffix 18:14
Zoffix Xliff: what did you mean by "It's been [...] for so long"?
Xliff I'm using GTK-Simple as a base.
And while this is defined in the Perl6 portion of the docs, it's not mentioned on the NativeCall pages. 18:15
Which still show: `sub ( &h (Type, Type --> ReturnType) ) { * }' 18:16
Zoffix Ah, k
Geth doc: 9fea5ea264 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/nativecall.pod6
Improve NC callback docs

  - Fix incorrect constraint syntax
  - Link to fuller sig constraint docs		 18:18
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/nativecall
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Demos[m] wow. is unit class Whatever is export; supposed to work 18:43
well not Whatever literally, just some class 18:47
perl6 is kinda awesome
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Geth doc: b268f0808e | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/create-cli.pod6
Additional suggestios by MasterDuke++
 18:51
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/create-cli
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cognominal-p6 Is there a reason for a rule defined out of a class not to be scoped lexcical by defailt ? 18:59
m: token a { a }
camelia Potential difficulties:
Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainline (did you mean 'my token a'?)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3token 7⏏5a { a }
cognominal-p6 m: my token a { a }; say 'a' ~~ / <a> / 19:00
camelia ｢a｣
a => ｢a｣
birdrock Lots of fun with Perl6's Int today. Generated a value with 300,000 digits in it.
cognominal-p6 goes against the DWIM principle. 19:01
birdrock Calcuations were instant, but printing the value took 2 minutes to gestate.
my $n = 2; for 1..20 { $n *= $n } 19:02
moritz cognominal-p6: the DWIM principle doesn't seem to extend to declarations; it pays to be explicit there
m: my $n = 2; for 1..20 { $n *= $n }; say log($n) 19:03
camelia Inf
moritz not a bad approximation :-)
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birdrock lol 19:05
moritz though I also had a professor who joked around that log(Inf) was around 5, typically 19:06
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poohman hello 19:08
I have a question regarding NativeCall 19:09
The only example of Win32 API usage was a MessageBox in NativeCall
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poohman I am trying to create a simple Window - can anyone tell me what pointer type to use for a function pointer 19:11
holyghost a reference probably, see & and \ 19:12
if it's used for e.g. a window port AFAIK 19:13
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poohman is this something along the lines of Pointer[int32] or Pointer[Str] 19:19
tbrowder___ [Coke]: i e
poohman trying to create a class as a Cstruct
tbrowder___ i went to perl foundation site to find dates for tpc na 2019 and (1) it’s not listed at all on the main page under the events tab and (2) there is a 2019 page with location but no dates 19:21
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Zoffix poohman: I don't know anything about function pointers, but I see there's a "Function Pointers" section in NativeCall docs. Maybe that has an answer? docs.perl6.org/language/nativecall...n_pointers 19:23
Demos[m]: fairly sure you don't need `is export` there, as that would be an `our` class, and thus visible elsewhere by default anyway. So it'd be just `unit class BlahBlah;` 19:24
poohman thanks holyghost and Zoffix 19:25
One more question - has anyone tried to update the CommaIDE in Windows to the latest version 19:26
I was able to download the update - but it was not MSI or exe that I ended up with 19:27
Zoffix timotimo: jnthn ^ 19:28
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Demos[m] well in reality it was unit class Somepackage::Someclass is export; 19:38
so I wanted to be able to use it without Somepackage:: qualification
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Zoffix ah 19:39
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Zoffix
.oO( can you mathematically figure out the number of digits in a decimal number if you know the number of digits it would take to render it in base 2 )
 19:48
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[Coke] tbrowder___: I don't know what you were referring to with that last send. 19:52
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Zoffix Was just pondering birdrock's comments about fast calculation, but very slow rendering of a large Int... The slowness comes from these two mp_* routine calls: github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/mast...#L955-L963 and I was pondering if there were a way to do some sort of a similar fast-path trick one of those routines got for binary: 19:55
github.com/MoarVM/libtommath/blob/....c#L37-L41
except for decimal.
Or at least do something for something digits instead of doing `mp_div_d` for every digit basically (in base 10) 19:56
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[Coke] Zoffix++ 19:57
Zoffix Docs for libtomath if anyone wants to give it a crack :) temp.perl6.party/tom.pdf
Zoffix-- # I was pondering, but didn't come up with anything and won't have time to look at it more in near future :)
Also a quick guide to setting up the source for you to play with: rakudo.party/post/Newcomer-Guide-t...ore-Perl-6 19:59
Just do `z m` to rebuild moarvm with the changes
Zoffix &
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Xliff How can I debug a segfault in perl6? 20:23
This was (somewhat) working before I upgraded to Ubuntu 18.10, but now my current code example is causing a segfault, and I would like to see where. 20:24
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moritz Xliff: use perl6-gdb-m instead of perl6 20:27
Xliff Yeah. I found the actual call, but I want to look at the actual line of perl that caused the segv. 20:28
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geekosaur I thnk that might include some gdb scripts to show te perl 6 level? 20:42
Geth doc: a874a355f9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/create-cli.pod6
Document (&*)ARGS-TO-CAPTURE|GENERATE-USAGE
 20:46
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/create-cli
lizmat comments very welcome again 20:47
Xliff Another issue found. Should I file a ticket? 20:49
gist.github.com/Xliff/e505c25224e3...149c6db5fc
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timotimo Xliff: usually you can "call MVM_dump_backtrace(tc)" after going "up" often enough to reach a frame where "tc" is available (usually the first argument) 20:58
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tbrowder___ [Coke] The Perl Foundation website does not show TPC NA 2019 on the Events tab on the home page. Yapc.org shows YAPC::NA 2018, and Perlconference.us shows The Perl Conference in 2019 will be in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania, USA, but it doesn’t show dates. It seems to me that the Perl Foundation ought to be the canonical place to show major Perl events. 21:00
Geth doc: 1db3856fef | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/create-cli.pod6
Tweaks
 21:02
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/create-cli
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Geth doc: aa121b337f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/create-cli.pod6
Only show the version info on =head1's
 21:06
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/create-cli
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Xliff timotimo: Ah! That was it. Thanks! 21:21
timotimo: How can I see when tc is available? 21:22
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Xliff All bt frames have no access to tc 21:23
topmost frame is dc_callvm_call_x64 () 21:24
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Xliff UIpdated, with backtrace -- gist.github.com/Xliff/e505c25224e3...149c6db5fc 21:29
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Xliff lizmat: Gist updated. It works with one type in the array, but not with anything more than one. 21:34
lizmat++ 21:40
GType is a 64bit number.
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lizmat Xliff: it's not so strange once you realize how NativeCall really works :-) 21:52
Xliff Yeah, but when working on large projects, forgetting type sizes is embarassing. %-) 21:53
Geth doc: 0cde53b38f | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/create-cli.pod6
tweak grammar and spelling
 21:54
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/create-cli
lizmat tbrowder___++ 21:55
Geth doc: 8f04524a94 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/create-cli.pod6
Fix weird rendering and add search terms
 21:56
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/create-cli
tbrowder___ lizmat: that info on MAIN is helpful. i’ve just used it again the k 21:58
lizmat good to hear :-)
tbrowder___ used MAIN again a few days ago and it takes some trial and error with the old doc to get it working just right. 21:59
i look forward to using the new info, thanks!
lizmat you're welcome! 22:00
lizmat goes of for a long nap&
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timotimo Xliff: gdb can't know how our jit stack frames work, so you quite often can't "up" past the JIT; try re-running with MVM_JIT_DISABLE=yes and see if it still crashes 22:49
oh, it looks like you solved the issue
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Xliff timotimo: LOL! Yes. And I'm currently working on the next one. 23:03
Another segfault, but this time it's something I know is my fault.
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