»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
buggable 🎺🎺🎺 It's time for the monthly Accidental /win Lottery 😍😍😍 We have 1 ballots submitted by 1 users! DRUM ROLL PLEASE!... 00:00
And the winning number is 5! Congratulations to Ulti! You win a roll of duck tape!
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holyghost eco: roll of duck tape 00:16
yoleaux 31 Oct 2018 11:15Z <Zoffix> holyghost: you should write an Advent article for your modules. Sign up: github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...8/schedule
buggable holyghost, Nothing found
yoleaux 31 Oct 2018 11:21Z <Zoffix> holyghost: better link: perl6.party/post/Perl-6-Advent-Cal...or-Authors
jnthn rouking: Oh! It's becuase you're using `rule`, which inserts <.ws> calls for you automatically
rouking: And the default `<.ws>` matches vertical whitespace too
Try token ws { <!ww> \h* } or some such 00:17
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jnthn sleep 00:21
'night o/
timotimo gnite o/
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rouking jnthn: That's progress--it at least tries to match another line, but it fails immediately 00:45
what is <!ww> there, by the way? 00:46
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leont It's a zero-length assertion 00:49
<ww> checks if you're in the middle of a word, so <!ww> checks the opposite
Not entirely sure what the difference between <wb> and <!ww> would be though 00:50
rouking This is giving me much more grief than I had hoped 00:52
leont I tend to use token or regex instead of rule, that gives less surprises 00:56
(token doesn't do backtracking, so it's faster but there are situations where regex parses things that token can't)
rule tends to be useful when parsing a freeform grammar, and quite a lot of parsing problems aren't that. It just happens to be that most programming languages that aren't python are such freeform grammers. 00:57
timotimo yeah, rule can be very surprising indeed 00:58
rouking Alright, I will just try using token since I know exactly what my format will be 00:59
hmm, still fails on the second line... 01:00
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Xliff \o 02:22
Just managed to bring down a piece of code generating segfaults.
Will generate segfault even with SPESH and JIT disabled. 02:23
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Xliff OK. I can trigger the segfault with what appears to be regularity. 02:29
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Xliff Segfaulting issue has been submitted as #2455 02:41
Ping me if anyone would like support to help debug this. I will continue my attempts from here. 02:42
AlexDaniel e: chdir ‘sandbox’; run <git clone github.com/Xliff/p6-GtkPlus.git> 02:44
evalable6 Cloning into 'p6-GtkPlus'...
AlexDaniel ahhhhhh that's gtk stuff again
alright…
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AlexDaniel Xliff: does it require an X server or anything like that? 02:46
I'm wondering if running it bisectable makes sense
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Xliff AlexDaniel: No. It's a code generator, so it should NOT. 02:47
And yes, AlexDaniel ... the GTK stuff is my current bone! :p
woof
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AlexDaniel ok, then… 02:47
e: chdir ‘sandbox/p6-GtkPlus’; run <git checkout a6d22e9427503ed9274386a2e3b708315ea5403d>
evalable6 Note: checking out 'a6d22e9427503ed9274386a2e3b708315ea5403d'.

You are in 'detached HEAD'…
AlexDaniel, Full output: gist.github.com/b39762b2547b937cbe...77150ef8bd 02:48
AlexDaniel e: chdir ‘sandbox/p6-GtkPlus’; run <perl6 -Ilib -Iscripts scripts/ui-to-code.pl6>
evalable6 (exit code 1) ===SORRY!===
Could not find Data::Dump::Tree at line 7 in:
/home/bisecta…
AlexDaniel, Full output: gist.github.com/61841e0c3d87cf20c2...702607d1bf
AlexDaniel argh
Xliff Ack! Ditch that line.
Just comment it.
Or would you rather I recommit?
AlexDaniel it's fine 02:49
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AlexDaniel e: chdir ‘sandbox/p6-GtkPlus’; run <perl6 -Ilib -Iscripts scripts/ui-to-code.pl6> 02:50
evalable6 (exit code 1) ===SORRY!===
Could not find Pluggable at line 3 in:
/home/bisectable/git…
AlexDaniel, Full output: gist.github.com/163660444175d5aaaf...f3bc28605c
Xliff I'm horrible at writing bug reports.
Updating. 02:51
AlexDaniel what's Pluggable?
oh so that's a module… ok hmm
Xliff Yeah. Kinda required for that bit.
AlexDaniel: What's the best way to compile rakudo so you can get decent backtrace info out of it? 02:53
AlexDaniel Xliff: maybe run it with perl6-valgrind-m ? You won't get a nice stacktrace unless you Configure it with --moar-option=--debug=3 I think 02:54
Xliff Ahhh... THAT'S what I am looking for. 02:56
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AlexDaniel Xliff: I have no idea what that is: gist.github.com/476fa136f6162b8501...065c0e5ec2 03:00
Xliff O fer crissakes. 03:02
It looks like the bot doesn't have permissions to open the lib dir? 03:03
AlexDaniel e: .say for dir ‘/home/bisectable/git/whateverable/sandbox/p6-GtkPlus/sandbox/lib’ 03:04
evalable6 (exit code 1) Failed to get the directory contents of '/home/bisectable/git/whateverable/sandbox/p6-GtkPlus/sandbox/lib': Failed to open dir: 2
in block <unit> at /tmp/teNQ4qNmxf line 1
AlexDaniel huh. 03:05
e: .say for dir ‘sandbox/p6-GtkPlus/sandbox/lib’
evalable6 (exit code 1) Failed to get the directory contents of '/home/bisectable/git/whateverable/sandbox/p6-GtkPlus/sandbox/lib': Failed to open dir: 2
in block <unit> at /tmp/B4mmDOnz8r line 1
AlexDaniel what's 2
WHAT IS 2
no such file or directory?
Xliff: ah, correct! The path is all wrong 03:06
how is it constructing this path?
Xliff Is that Pluggable constructing the path? 03:07
AlexDaniel 🤷 03:09
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Xliff OK. I am going to see if I can recompile rakudo and get a backtrace. 03:50
What's the best way to get moar, nqp and rakudo to compile after a recent rakudobrew? 03:51
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Xliff m: '🤷'.uniname.say 04:09
camelia SHRUG
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donaldh Couple of unassuming PRs if anyone has a moment: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/2454 and github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/2457 04:39
Xliff Got a backtrace of the segfault. I've updated github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2455 04:43
AlexDaniel donaldh: thanks! 04:56
Xliff: cool!
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Xliff AlexDaniel: Yes. And now I realize how badly some of this was written. :/ 04:57
This is what happens when you code way past your bedtime.
AlexDaniel what's bedtime 04:58
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AlexDaniel declares it now 05:09
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SmokeMachine is anyone here used to CQRS? could comment my first attempt to do it with Red? github.com/FCO/Red/blob/master/exa...s/index.p6 05:23
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holyghost .tell Zoffix my code does not compile yet, if you like I can write something up for it on Advent as it's open source and consistent for the math formulas 07:06
yoleaux holyghost: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
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Geth doc/master: 6 commits pushed by (Luis Balderas Ruiz)++, (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ 07:24
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buggable New CPAN upload: Bayes-Learn-0.1.8.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST modules.perl6.org/dist/Bayes::Learn...:HOLYGHOST 08:21
New CPAN upload: Mathx-Stat-0.1.10.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST modules.perl6.org/dist/Mathx::Stat:...:HOLYGHOST
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buggable New CPAN upload: Bayes-Learn-0.1.9.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST modules.perl6.org/dist/Bayes::Learn...:HOLYGHOST 08:31
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holyghost .tell Zoffix I do not have enough knowledge about the module system except that I read docs.perl6.org/language/modules and set the PERL6LIB path, Mathx::Stat should compile, I can Advent it if you like, AFAIK tests of Mathx::Stat are useless as they are just math formulas and can break an download/install 08:36
yoleaux holyghost: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
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ufobat jnthn++ 08:46
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holyghost My "the legend of kyrandia game" is available at shameen.ddns.net, it's programmed in GNU smalltalk, the site is not reachable from everywhere 08:47
It's a start with a blitter as I said before
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holyghost graphics will be licensed from Westwood studios 08:48
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holyghost time for a drink :-) thx ufobat 08:50
ufobat a drink at 10am?
holyghost yes I work at night mostly 08:51
ufobat what about a gin tonic? :) 08:52
jmerelo Just plotted the contributions per month for the perl6/doc repo raw.githubusercontent.com/JJ/TPF-G...ntropy.png
holyghost I have a terrific phase, I start coding at 4am
gin tonic is declasse :-)
jmerelo Number of authors and contributions has picked up a bit since the Aug-Sep slump, but it's far from peaks. Let's see if this weekend's squashathon helps 08:53
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jmerelo holyghost: great work, too, on AI stuff. Also, you can test math formulae too. Advent article would be great 08:54
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holyghost ok 08:54
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holyghost the AI-Agent is cool, I know 08:55
I still need to compile, but I might have to refactor 08:56
I have a HashAgent and Agent superclass
s/HashAgent/HashedAgent
They have to go in concert with th rest of the code 08:57
It's just an override on an Actor class with a "method dispatch($message, %optargs)" 09:03
It should be hackable by perlbies
s/perlbies/gnubies, newbies, perl wizards and so on 09:06
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holyghost .tell Zoffix I've posted a small addon to Advent, AFAIK I can write a HTML page on it, I will do that later 09:31
yoleaux holyghost: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
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holyghost Advent is showing up december 2017 in my browser 10:00
jmerelo holyghost: what do you mean?
holyghost I get Bonus Xmas 􏿽x96 Concurrent HTTP Server implementation and the scripter􏿽x92s approach 10:01
December 25, 2017ramiroencinas Leave a comment
jmerelo holyghost: if you want to propose something for the calendar, you have to modify this file github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...8/schedule
holyghost lol
jmerelo: I did
At the end of the month I'll write something about Mathx::Stat, it's in if you like 10:02
I am going to extend it
jmerelo holyghost: Er. It's not.
holyghost: if you want to have it for the 24th, just add your nick and title behind that day to "claim" it. 10:03
holyghost ok
I can write something about the package as it is now 10:04
I'll figure out the web editor later
jmerelo holyghost: if you mean the Wordpress blog, that comes after. You'll need to obtain privs from Zoffix or one of the other admins (if you don't have them already). Anyway, claiming goes first, to know what we have
holyghost ah now I understand
It's priviledged from the github schedule file ? 10:05
jmerelo holyghost: kinda. It's done by hand. Zoffix or someone will contact you for your Wordpress account after you claim a day.
holyghost ok, I understand
I just need to dump an HTML page with zoffix's tool then 10:06
jmerelo holyghost: yep, when your article is ready.
holyghost ok
I have to talk about a simple statistics package :-) 10:07
jmerelo holyghost: that's good :-)
holyghost It was programmed for speed. done. :-)
lol
I'll talk about games then 10:08
It was made for Game::Markov and Bayes::Learn 10:09
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holyghost ok, I'll figure it out at the end of the month :-) 10:09
jmerelo holyghost: great idea!
holyghost: you can just claim the day and say "TBA"
holyghost I know
I'll make a second entry later on when I get my chaos theory statistics read and sorted out 10:10
jmerelo holyghost: great!
holyghost upgrades :-)
Now there's a correlation dimension which is a popular chaos theory formula 10:11
It needs refactoring though (with addition of classes I mean, I write everything in modules) 10:12
.pm6 :-)
timotimo jmerelo: DM-ping, but also AFK now 10:16
holyghost jmerelo: basically you just calculate with lists of probabilities until you figure out your variance in a game. Oh! I am posting my article :-)
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jmerelo timotimo: sorry, what? 10:31
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Geth ecosystem: ccworld1000++ created pull request #413:
CCLog Simple and lightweight cross-platform logs		 10:32
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Geth ecosystem: dee60699db | CC++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
CCLog Simple and lightweight cross-platform logs

easy-to-use simple learning, and support for multiple languages, such as C, C++, Perl 6, shell, Objective-C .		 10:36
ecosystem: bd5ff55660 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Merge pull request #413 from ccworld1000/patch-1

CCLog Simple and lightweight cross-platform logs
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holyghost .tell Zoffix I cannot use your schedule tool, but here's my printed HTML page for Advent if you like (for Mathx::Stat): pastebin.com/x3mENvQE 10:53
yoleaux holyghost: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
holyghost I hopy you like it, C&C welcome
chsanch japhb: You can install it skipping the tests: zef install --/test croOA
holyghost s/hopy/hope
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jmerelo holyghost: the articles for Advent should be a bit longish... Also include a few code examples. Sometimes they are written in a festive-mock-Santa mood, but that's optional. 10:57
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jmerelo holyghost: it's a good start anyway. Also, remember to claim a particular day. 10:58
holyghost jmerelo: ok, I'll see what I can do, problem is you cannot say much about core statistics 11:02
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holyghost I claimed 30 nov 2018 (another login, my theholyghost login has been faulted) 11:03
jmerelo holyghost: Advent starts by Dec 1st 11:04
holyghost 30 dec 2018 I meant then
jmerelo holyghost: it ends by Dec 24th. Sometimes there's a bonus on the 25th, but that's it... 11:05
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holyghost I've updated the schedule file to 30: 11:05
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jmerelo holyghost: you can't do that. Please just claim one of the available days. 11:06
holyghost ok 11:07
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holyghost I'm not too good at fixing web edits but Zoffix'll have to post the article anyway 11:08
It's just a piece of HTML file
I'll extend anyhow later on
problem is I am flooding .tell 11:09
jmerelo holyghost: that's not how it works. 1. You claim a day 2. You get permission to post in the wordpress blog 3. You schedule the post for that day, and leave it for others to check it out and edit (and you can edit it yourself) 4. It's published on the scheduled day.
holyghost I knew that 11:11
1. I claimed 30 dec 2018 2. I'll post my text/html file if Zoffix concurs 11:12
with my zork9 login
I added further numbers than 25 (dec 2018) 11:13
but I'll add-on sooner :-) 11:14
timotimo there will not be advent posts later than the 25th
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holyghost timotimo: ok, as I said, I'll have my post ready even for dec 25 11:16
I release often, you know :-) 11:17
timotimo yeah, i see your releases show up on irc every day 11:18
holyghost that's all 11:19
I wrote 1500+ lines for it, but the packages are still not figured out right. I need to factor HLL OOP 11:23
in 20 days
jmerelo holyghost: where's the source?
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holyghost eco: Mathx::Stat, Bayes::Learn, Game::Markov, AI::Agent 11:24
buggable holyghost, Nothing found
holyghost eco: Mathx::Stat
buggable holyghost, Mathx::Stat 'Statistics package unto Correlation Dimension.': modules.perl6.org/dist/Mathx::Stat:...:HOLYGHOST
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holyghost eco: Bayes::Learn Game::Markov AI::Agent 11:24
buggable holyghost, Nothing found
holyghost eco: Bayes::Learn
buggable holyghost, Bayes::Learn 'Bayesian Inference based upon ditributions. Minimax': modules.perl6.org/dist/Bayes::Learn...:HOLYGHOST
holyghost eco: Game::Markov
buggable holyghost, Game::Markov 'Markov Strategy kit for games': modules.perl6.org/dist/Game::Markov...:HOLYGHOST
holyghost eco: AI::Agent
buggable holyghost, AI::Agent 'AI network Agent system, example: Music Link Agent': modules.perl6.org/dist/AI::Agent:cpan:HOLYGHOST
holyghost there you go
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jmerelo holyghost: right, but where's the repo so that people can create issues, pull requests and things like that? 11:25
lizmat holyghost: have you thought about adding tests ???
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holyghost there's no github repo, I thought CPAN was ok 11:27
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holyghost github doesn;t wuantify everything with just a web interface 11:27
s/does;t wuantify/doesn't quantify
lizmat: tests for a statistics package are uneasy 11:28
jmerelo holyghost: it's OK for release, but if you want people to contribute, create issues, all that, there needs to be a repo. Need not be GitHub, could be Gitlab or Bitbucket
lizmat holyghost: at least write some usage examples in the documentation (and make sure they run) 11:29
holyghost jmerelo: I'm on my own for now
lizmat: sure, but it's open source code, anyone knows their perl inclusion path 11:30
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lizmat having a way to report issues, allows people to do pull requests for you, e.g. for s/probabiltiy/probability/ 11:30
holyghost lizmat: ok but I can manage 11:31
TMOTOWTDI 11:32
timotimo i mean, you can always do it the classical way and do it via mail, but that won't let others see if there's already a PR for what they found 11:33
unless you have a publically archived mailing list
holyghost you probably cannot pull older versions but my package stays final and so is archived on CPAN for everyone who knows 11:34
That was the perl5 way
I don't need webeditors for that to be frank 11:35
lizmat well, zef install Mathx::Stat does not work
jmerelo lizmat: it's not released in CPAN, but in backpan: metacpan.org/author/HOLYGHOST
lizmat 'Mathx::Stat::Mathx::Stat::DistributionPopulation' cannot inherit from 'Population' because it is unknown.
jmerelo lizmat: for some reason, it was picked up by modules. 11:36
lizmat: that's because the class is declared as an unit module, and then as a class.
lizmat jmerelo: I don't care what the problem is at this stage
jmerelo lizmat: right
lizmat It's for this reason that I specced the concept of a recommendation manager 11:37
jmerelo lizmat: sorry.
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jmerelo lizmat: point is, that code does not compile. 11:37
lizmat not having tests in your distribution could be a reason to not recommend a distribution 11:38
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holyghost lizmat: I know my perl 5 classes, I just need to remove the non-intuitive way 11:38
lizmat well, if the distribution had had tests, then the author could have known that it doesn't compile
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jmerelo lizmat: you are right. 11:38
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lizmat if you use App::Mi6, you always get a single test added 11:39
"use Module"; pass "it lives" !
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lizmat that's already a good start 11:39
but holyghost's distributions don't even have that :-(
pmurias holyghost: re perl5 way, modern modules have a repository up 11:40
jmerelo lizmat: :-( Right so. And there's no repo where we can report that as an issue. Or provide a pull request. 11:41
lizmat FWIW, I have removed mention of holyghost's modules from all Perl 6 Weeklies 11:42
jmerelo lizmat: makes sense
lizmat I'll be glad to mention them if they have tests and install
holyghost lizmat: some modules do not install with tests, you can hack them as they are open source 11:46
lizmat: you do know perl -M -CPAN ?
lizmat holyghost: that's fine, but that doesn't mean we need to recommend them
"Missing argument to -M" 11:47
holyghost I don't mind but they do stay in the ecosystem
perl -MCPAN -e shell
lizmat *
yeah, I know about that, so ? 11:48
do you know "cpan"
holyghost I'd rather write an interface to CPAN than use a simple github server
lizmat that's a lot shorter then perl -MCPAN -e shell 11:49
jmerelo holyghost: your code is simply broken. Just try to "use" it from an example and run it using perl6. It will not run. Saying that people can hack it to make it run does not make it any better
lizmat it's a bit like graffiti: anybody can do a tag and add a tag to that 11:50
jmerelo holyghost: the whole point of running tests is to force authors to actually create something that, at least, compiles.
lizmat generally, people like to see a complete painting
buggable New CPAN upload: Mathx-Stat-0.1.11.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST modules.perl6.org/dist/Mathx::Stat:...:HOLYGHOST 11:51
holyghost SFY
lizmat like twitter.com/streetartmagic/status/...8465891329
holyghost Mathx::Stat needs to resolve, but I do not think there are any faults left 11:52
pmurias holyghost: the point of including a repo isn't that people download the code to use from their it's that they can have the version control history?
holyghost: do you use version control?
jmerelo holyghost: if there's no source repo, if there's no Changelog, we don't even know what's changed. There's still no test, we still don't know if it runs or not.
lizmat just plonked
afk& 11:53
holyghost jmerelo: I just put in the minial LICENSE and README.md 11:54
s/minial/minimal
You need a patch or fidd to see the changes 11:55
s/fidd/diff
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jmerelo holyghost: no, *you* need to upload that to a repo to show changes. 11:55
Zoffix holyghost: but didn't you say your modules don't even compile?
yoleaux 10:53Z <holyghost> Zoffix: I cannot use your schedule tool, but here's my printed HTML page for Advent if you like (for Mathx::Stat): pastebin.com/x3mENvQE
holyghost Zoffix: Mathx::Stat should compile, it needs to resolve 11:56
The rest I am doing tomorrow
Zoffix holyghost: advents are about showing off technology and building cool stuff with it. That pastebin reads like someone's TODO list rather than showcase of tech
jmerelo holyghost: "should compile" as in "I haven't compiled it, but it looks OK"? 11:57
Zoffix "The package was meant to support Markov strategies for calculating several variances" great. What's the code to do that?
holyghost that's in the Game::Markov package
I hope nobody frames me for releasing early and often ? 11:58
Zoffix holyghost: even if Mathx::Stat compiles, there's no way it works correctly, because this isn't the syntax for calling methods on `self`: modules.perl6.org/dist/Mathx::Stat...on.pm6#L13
holyghost you just said I should write a handout, I did, so I tried to compile
jmerelo holyghost: "tried to" as in "I did it, but it didn't work"? 11:59
Zoffix holyghost: you can release as often as you want, but if you're gonna write an Advent Post about modules that don't work when people try them, I imagine a lot of people will be pissed off with you.
holyghost: well yeah, I suggested you should write something. Don't mean you should, if you're not ready :)
holyghost I concurred to support the community, the system still holds
Zoffix You can always write a non-Advent blog later on when the modules work. 12:00
holyghost I only wanted to help
Zoffix It's apreciated.
holyghost Mathx::Stat is easy to debug
as I said I'll do the rest of the packages later on (to compile I mean)
s/compile/compile and test 12:01
pmurias was once slightly pissed off after going to a super boring YAPC talk that was going through minute internals of a module that didn't compile
jmerelo holyghost: debugging supposes they compile. If there are no tests, it's impossible even to know what they're supposed to produce.
holyghost jmerelo: problem is it's instance.Covariance for example 12:02
you cannot calculate a covariance/correlation without knowing the result, thing is it can differ on x-bit systems
pmurias: I understand but released early, I've put them in the eco to support open source 12:03
pmurias holyghost: what's an x-bit system?
holyghost 8,16,32,64
jmerelo holyghost: problem is the whole thing. First upload it to a repo. Then write a basic "use Module" test, as lizmat has said. Then start writing tests, one by one, for all functions in your class. Then start to work on the code until it passes tests.
holyghost jmerelo: ok but I'm still working on the codebase 12:04
jmerelo holyghost: the first step to support open source is to upload it to a repo so that people can engage the code at the repo level, comment, all that.
12:04 Zoffix left
jmerelo holyghost: that's great, but it would be much better if you had waited to release it until it compiles and passes tests. You have produced several versions already, and we have no guarantee even one of them actually works. 12:05
holyghost jmerelo: ok, I just mirror my code
jmerelo holyghost: we really appreciate your enthusiasm, but it would really help if you waited until you have some code that compiles to upload the next version. 12:06
holyghost ok, I didn't know that 12:07
I wrote the code out of my head, I am still working on it, non-versioned except cpan, but people sometimes like an upload to debug/compile themselves if they know what it is all about 12:09
It's called hacking
jmerelo holyghost: hacking is twice as good if you use a source control system like git locally and git(lab|hub) offsite and check that everything works by compiling and testing it. 12:10
holyghost ok, but CPAN doesn't have that system 12:12
although somebody might have written that for cpan back in the day
W3C HTML is 23 years old at the least
jmerelo holyghost: that's not the point. CPAN is for releasing modules that work. It just reads metadata from your module and publishes it. You still have to use a source control system for managing yours and others' contributions. 12:13
holyghost ok 12:14
I can do that, but I want to work to a package that works as you concurred 12:15
to be honest, my updates are multiple such as Zoffix said
jmerelo holyghost: please do that. I would be very grateful if you did. 12:16
holyghost thx
I know git from savannah, same thing, of course
jmerelo: could you (once) see that Mathx::Stat compiles, I told Zoffix, I am a bit confused with the module system. Back in the day we hacked that way by logging into someone else 12:18
jmerelo holyghost: git is the client, savannah is the host. You can use savannah to host your code if you want, although there might be better choices, also free
holyghost: OK, I'll try it out 12:19
holyghost It should upload first to the ecosystem
0.1.11 I believe
jmerelo holyghost: here you go: gist.github.com/JJ/750c8d8c75239a1...63d0aa265a 12:23
holyghost: you'd do well, after you upload it to a repository, to include that test and repeat it for every module in your distribution. When it compiles, take it from there and write tests for what they are actually supposed to do. 12:25
holyghost jmerelo: it's probably on line 11 : .population = DistributionPopulation.new; ? 12:31
I program smalltalk, Scheme and other languages so I get confused 12:32
jmerelo holyghost: that's exactly what it says in the error. Perl6 compiler is usually great at errors.
holyghost I know :-) I love perl for that
I'll reupload, I comment out such things to compile 12:33
jmerelo holyghost: First, you should try to fix them, not comment them out. That's in the BUILD submethod, it's doubtful that anything will work if you comment that out. Second, I hope that by "reupload" you mean "upload it to a source control hosting site". And before you do that, include that test (and tests for all the other modules). When they pass, we at least know it's syntactically correct code. 12:35
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holyghost jmerelo: do try to understand perl6 doesn't in this case check a type of a ctor 12:36
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jmerelo holyghost: do try to understand that it's a syntax error and that you should try to fix that. Checking type does not have to do anything with that. 12:38
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holyghost jmerelo: to uncomment I mean 12:38
s/uncomment/comment 12:39
jmerelo holyghost: you can't comment it out. You need to fix it.
holyghost jmerelo: the new syntax, yes
I've got the point now :-) 12:40
jmerelo holyghost: great. Good luck. 12:41
jmerelo goes AFK
holyghost thx
s/thx/thx for the help
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holyghost: You have just uploaded a new version. Does it compile now? If it still does not, why did you do that? 12:47
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buggable New CPAN upload: Mathx-Stat-0.1.12.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST modules.perl6.org/dist/Mathx::Stat:...:HOLYGHOST 12:51
holyghost jmerelo: I thought you were AFK, it should compile now 12:52
jmerelo holyghost: it "should"? You haven't tried to compile it either? 12:55
holyghost I commented out the .new and it compiles 12:56
jmerelo holyghost: it compiles but it does not do a thing 12:57
holyghost: and the rest does not compile either. 12:58
/does/do9
holyghost I need to fix the rest
jmerelo holyghost: ... before you upload anything else to CPAN. 12:59
jmerelo *really* goes AFK 13:00
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Geth doc: 456118e16e | Coke++ | doc/Language/modules.pod6
run more tests with :solo

change skip-test to :lang for clarity on one.		 13:50
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/modules
Geth mu: a390255b87 | (Simon Proctor)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | misc/perl6advent-2018/schedule
Added myself in on the 20th

Got a few thoughts on what to write about.		 13:53
doc: 203c8c3e22 | Coke++ | doc/Type/Supplier/Preserving.pod6
output, not code
 14:01
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Supplier::Preserving
pmurias bikeshedding question when bundling with parcel how should the rakudo.js config file be called? .rakudorc or rakudoconfig.json? 14:33
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SmokeMachine Does anyone know if COMMA can breakpoint code that runs at compile time? 15:00
jnthn SmokeMachine: Just tried it with a BEGIN block and it hit it 15:02
And the stack trace is full of compiler internals, so it's certainly BEGIN time :) 15:03
SmokeMachine jnthn: and that works for traits too, right?
jnthn I'd expect it to
lizmat SmokeMachine: it should, as that's also BEGIN time 15:04
jnthn The debugger works at MoarVM level, so actually it doesn't even know the difference between BEGIN time and not. It's all just code.
SmokeMachine :) good too know! the more I know about COMMA the more I think I should buy it! :)
thanks 15:05
jnthn SmokeMachine: That said, the debugger is still a bit weak in various ways...lots of improvements coming there over the next month or so. 15:06
Though I'm kind of fighting myself there, in that the more aggressive Rakudo optimizations I've currently working on will make the job harder :P
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SmokeMachine jnthn: had you thought about the possibility of paying monthly for COMMA? 15:07
like a subscription payment?
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jnthn SmokeMachine: Sort of, but the problem is that our model already *is* a subscription one, but in the "you get a year's worth of updates", not in the sense of "it stops working when your year runs out" (so folks can keep on using what they have for as long as they like). If we make it monthly under that model, then the loophole is obvious. :) And if we don't, then we have to spend time exploring DRM-y stuff 15:15
that we really, really don't want to. We're still on track for a free version of it in early 2019 also, and are more focused on making *that* happen.
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El_Che jnthn: everyone hates DRM. Specially paying users :) 15:16
jnthn Yeah, exactly. 15:17
moritz I also thought everybody hates monthly subscriptions to software :-)
SmokeMachine :( I'd like to use it, I'd like to help it (paying) but my with doesnt let me pay R$ 500 for an IDE... :(
moritz: I do! but I think it would be the easyest way to let me use COMMA (but I undertand the reasons why its not possible...) 15:18
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El_Che best for users would be if intellij would integrate comma and pay jnthn a lot of moneys 15:40
monthly :)
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moritz daily :) 15:40
El_Che when you're employer is paying for intellij, the often won't want to pay for extras for the same ide
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japhb is mystified by any but the most cash-strapped company skimping on productivity tools. Productivity pays for itself *really* quickly, even if you only consider the direct benefits and not other important things like quality of life and job satisfaction 16:00
(To be clear, I understand a pure FOSS company not wanting to buy a proprietary product, I'm just talking about the concept of "Well, it's going to cost $100 a head to make everyone XX% more efficient, that's too much" ... to which I think, "Under what possible mathematical system?!" 16:02
)
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leont Companies still put all their programmers into noisy open office spaces as well... 16:08
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[Coke] kind-of-enjoys his new home office. 16:16
new-in-that-my new gig has no local office and so I'm forced to work from home now. definitely a switch from the crowded IT office. 16:17
jnthn has a nice spacious office that most of the time is just for him, and loves that :) 16:18
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El_Che what leont says rings a bell 16:35
"let's all be agile and lean, here let's kill the offices and put everyone in a huge overcrowded space. Oh, and we don't dare measure productivity afterwards" 16:39
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SmokeMachine japhb: Yes, I agree... the problem is when is no a company that are paying... 16:57
pmurias japhb: it might be easier to convince for people that don't actually use Perl 6 at work to get their employer to buy them intellij than comma 17:02
japhb SmokeMachine: True. That's part of why companies do student discounts. (Though admittedly, the larger reason is to get students used to their product so that they will more likely buy it at full price after graduating.) (And of course I'm also well aware that students aren't the only cash-strapped people by a long shot, I'm just saying that's a common case.) 17:13
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pmurias japhb: a lot of developer tools are given for free to students 17:22
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dannymk Does anyone have an example of how to implement the TO_JSON sub in a class? 17:34
Xliff Is there a way to get ^mro to list roles as well as classes? 17:38
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jnthn Xliff: No (roles aren't searched for methods, since the methods from roles are composed into the classes) 17:40
Xliff: You'd need to map over the .^mro result and do .^roles on each one
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jnthn greppable6: TO_JSON 17:40
greppable6 jnthn, Found nothing!
jnthn heh, apparently not :)
jnthn bbl 17:41
Xliff jnthn++ #Thanks! 17:42
jdv79 i will say my perf case has been wandering into worse territory but generally trending well lately:)
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dannymk Yes, as in providing a TO_JSON sub so when the serialization happens only the attributes we want listed get included. 18:01
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dannymk See: metacpan.org/pod/JSON#OBJECT-SERIALISATION 18:03
pmurias dannymk: isn't that Perl 5? 18:11
Xliff Do arrays have a Str.substr-rw equivalent?
lizmat splice ? 18:12
Xliff lizmat: Hmm... will look into that. Thanks! 18:13
dannymk pmurias: Yes, of course. Was asking how to provide the sub in a class in 6. 18:14
when using modules like JSON::Fast
github.com/jonathanstowe/JSON-Marshal does help but it may include attributes that I do not want 18:15
lizmat weekly: www.facebook.com/ashport/posts/101...7439278326 18:16
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
lizmat weekly: laurent-rosenfeld.developpez.com/t...puissance/ 18:17
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
pmurias dannymk: sorry didn't notice that you where the person asking the question 18:19
Xliff Well, never use @a.splice when attempting to loop over @a. Instant infinite loop. 18:25
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jmerelo squashable6: status 18:39
squashable6 jmerelo, ⚠🍕 Next SQUASHathon in ≈15 hours (2018-11-03 UTC-12⌁UTC+14). See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
jmerelo Ready for squashathonint?
AlexDaniel did anybody mention it in social media? 18:46
jmerelo AlexDaniel: yep, Zoffix and me, at least.
AlexDaniel nice 18:48
jmerelo Can't hurt to say it again
AlexDaniel alright I need to set up the bot I guess
jmerelo We would need a single splash page also. Right now it's kind of spread over: here are the issues, here're some introductory instructions, here's the hackathon...
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jmerelo AlexDaniel: but anyway, here we go again. 18:50
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squashable6 Webhook for perl6/doc is now active! Non-blocking is better than blocking. 18:51
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jmerelo I've updated the flowchart I created in June: drive.google.com/file/d/1a4nUM5XoS...sp=sharing 18:59
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holyghost jmerelo: I've updated AI::Agent a little to load the right module, I'll debug it as a 2nd package tomorrow. Later on I will build some tests for Mathx::Stat and the former to calm lizmat about it 19:38
I hope I didn't went too far with name calling
Then I'll refactor my Advent 19:39
Back in the day for project Altima we just needed compilable code 19:40
I understand perl6's wishes now 19:41
Only thing is tests broke perl 5 cpan code 19:43
Then we had smoothly functioning anarchy, not anymore these days :-) 19:47
jmerelo holyghost: you miss the point here. Tests are not made to calm anyone. They are there to prove your code is not broken. They are not perl6's wishes either. Untested code is broken code.
holyghost ok 19:48
It's probably a hassle from normal coding, I'll build some tests 19:50
buggable New CPAN upload: AI-Agent-0.1.24.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST modules.perl6.org/dist/AI::Agent:cpan:HOLYGHOST 19:51
jmerelo gives up
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holyghost never mind, I'll fix later on :-) 19:53
robertle isn't there a nicer way to do travis than with 19:54
"lang: perl6" that recompiles perl6 itself all the time?
jmerelo robertle: you can use a Docker image like mine: hub.docker.com/r/jjmerelo/test-perl6/ 19:55
El_Che robertle: github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg#using-...-on-travis
jmerelo El_Che++ 19:56
robertle ah, interesting! thanks a lot 19:57
El_Che I have pkgs from every release for more than a few years. So maybe a matrix could be useful 19:58
like:
language: raku
rako:
- 2018.10
- 2010.09
jmerelo Do we have raku officially now?
El_Che - ...
jmerelo: it's the alias TimToady liked the most 19:59
moritz has that been made official in any way?
jmerelo El_Che: so it's unofficially official
El_Che moritz: not that I know of, probably will Zoffix take care of that
jmerelo: it's the officially the almost-official non-official alias 20:00
or something like that :)
jmerelo :-)
holyghost lol, raku is a perl6 dialect ? 20:01
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El_Che non, is an alias for perl 6, the latter being the official name 20:01
holyghost ok
El_Che Some of us, including me, feel that it's easier to market 20:02
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holyghost sure, whatever you need 20:02
jmerelo El_Che: ... extra-officially.
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holyghost do is ut in Flemish, the note I mean 20:03
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El_Che do is ut in most languages I know 20:04
holyghost I hope I can get some market share from it :-) 20:05
robertle El_Che: do you have a project that uses this travis setup? I get "No Rakefile found..." failures with this 20:06
El_Che robertle: I had, but removed it. Let me check 20:07
Woodi hi :)
El_Che robertle: put this on top:
jmerelo robertle: I wouldn't want to butt in again, but I do use that docker image in my own modules, like here: github.com/JJ/p6-math-constants/bl...travis.yml
El_Che language: generic
jmerelo Woodi: hi 20:08
El_Che it using the ruby as default
holyghost hello
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jmerelo El_Che: language: generic suppressed downloading of Ruby stuff? 20:09
robertle El_Che: makes sense
El_Che kind of
I use it in github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg itself
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holyghost I have 2 beers left, my workable code should make next week :-| 20:09
El_Che where I create containers to create rakudo pkgs
robertle jmerelo: I will try that next, but if I can get El_Che's method to work then I can also adapt it to use the debian packages, which would be sweet (for me)
Woodi found today that C have div in stdlib.h, it returns struct with both quotient and remainder at once. cannot find equivalent in docs...
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jmerelo robertle: they work fine, actually. We use them in Perl6/docs along with the docker container. 20:10
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El_Che robertle: the pkgs are built for the oldish 14.04 ubuntu travis uses 20:10
jmerelo robertle: good thing about docker container is that you can create your own custom one, which will download in a jiffy if you have a bunch of dependencies.
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jmerelo Woodi: there's %% 20:11
m: say 333 %% 6
camelia False
jmerelo No, wait
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jmerelo That's divisibility 20:11
m: say 333 % 6
camelia 3
robertle jmerelo: cool, so close to having zef in debian main as well...
El_Che robertle: that's great news 20:12
jmerelo robertle++
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holyghost Woodi: www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=981240 20:12
El_Che robertle: I am waiting for MS to buy Canonical to move back to Debian :P
Woodi jmerelo: but I looking something that gives both numbers back
jmerelo Woodi: I don't think we have that... 20:13
holyghost y ($var, $mod) = (4999, 100); 20:14
my ($quot, $rem) = (int $var / $mod, $var % $mod);
s/y/my
jmerelo and int / should be div
geekosaur holyghost, point here is there's usuallya CPU op that produces both at the same tme 20:15
rather than doing it twice and each throwing away the half it's not using
holyghost sure, I just looked it up
jmerelo m: my $mod-and-rem = -> $num, $div { return [ $num div $div, $num % div ] }; say $mod-and-rem(333,3), $mod-and-rem(777,8)
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
div used at line 1. Did you mean 'die', 'dir'?
jmerelo m: my $mod-and-rem = -> $num, $div { return [ $num div $div, $num % $div ] }; say $mod-and-rem(333,3), $mod-and-rem(777,8) 20:16
camelia Attempt to return outside of any Routine
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
jmerelo m: my &mod-and-rem = -> $num, $div { return [ $num div $div, $num % $div ] }; say mod-and-rem(333,3), mod-and-rem(777,8)
camelia Attempt to return outside of any Routine
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
jmerelo m: my &mod-and-rem = -> $num, $div { [ $num div $div, $num % $div ] }; say mod-and-rem(333,3), mod-and-rem(777,8)
camelia [111 0][97 1]
holyghost coolness
jmerelo Woodi: ^^^^. Kinda
Woodi jmerelo: it's cheating :) 20:17
jmerelo Woodi: you can cheat even more
holyghost jmerelo: you said you liked my AI::Agent work, could you tell me what you liked the most about it ? I have to invent more agents 20:18
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jmerelo m: sub term:<///> ( $num, $div ) { [ $num div $div, $num % $div ] }; say 333 /// 3, 777 /// 8 20:19
camelia 5===SORRY!5===
Unrecognized regex metacharacter , (must be quoted to match literally)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3div $div, $num % $div ] }; say 333 /// 37⏏5, 777 /// 8
Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/'
at <tmp>:1
------> 3…
jmerelo m: sub term:<\> ( $num, $div ) { [ $num div $div, $num % $div ] }; say 333 \ 3, 777 \ 8
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unable to parse expression in quote words; couldn't find final '>' (corresponding starter was at line 1)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3v, $num % $div ] }; say 333 \ 3, 777 \ 87⏏5<EOL>
expecting an…
20:19 jast joined
jmerelo m: sub term:<%%%> ( $num, $div ) { [ $num div $div, $num % $div ] }; say 333 %%% 3, 777 %%% 8 20:19
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Two terms in a row
at <tmp>:1
------> 3m div $div, $num % $div ] }; say 333 %%%7⏏5 3, 777 %%% 8
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
postfix
stat…
jmerelo m: sub term:<%%%> ( $num, $div ) { return [ $num div $div, $num % $div ] }; say 333 %%% 3, 777 %%% 8 20:20
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Two terms in a row
at <tmp>:1
------> 3m div $div, $num % $div ] }; say 333 %%%7⏏5 3, 777 %%% 8
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
postfix
stat…
20:20 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v jast
Woodi geekosaur: yea, I looking something like in asm. C probably do exactly this and packs eax and edx into struct. except it's not so nice: div, idiv, few register sizes and not automatic for unlimited numbers like in Perl :) 20:22
holyghost Woodi: in assembly ? 20:23
Woodi no, in Perl 6 :)
holyghost you're programming e.g. without bignums or C or asm
Woodi it could return Pair or something
holyghost pair is old STL 20:24
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holyghost C++ 20:24
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holyghost Woodi: perl6 is a High Level Language more than perl 5 20:26
It's less libc interfaced
less a UNIX swiss army-knife 20:27
geekosaur but thereis some effort to unbox and use native ops when possible, as an optimization
El_Che lizmat's modules
?
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Woodi holyghost: Perl 6 seems also having everything, if possible :) 20:28
holyghost Woodi: sure :-)
Woodi: look :www.google.com/search?hl=nl-BE&...&gbv=2 20:29
jmerelo m: sub infix:<%%%> ( $num, $div ) { return [ $num div $div, $num % $div ] }; say 333 %%% 3, 777 %%% 8
camelia [111 0][97 1]
jmerelo Woodi: ^^^ 20:30
Ah, wait, you want Pairs 20:34
m: sub infix:<%%%> ( $num, $div ) { return $num div $div => $num % $div }; say 333 %%% 3, 777 %%% 8
camelia 111 => 097 => 1
Woodi no, probably array is better
thanx :)
jmerelo m: sub infix:<%%%> ( $num, $div ) { return Pair.new($num div $div, $num % $div ); say 333 %%% 3 ~ " and " ~ 777 %%% 8 20:35
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 ); say 333 %%% 3 ~ " and " ~ 777 %%% 87⏏5<EOL>
expecting any of:
postfix
statement end
statement modifier
stat…
jmerelo m: sub infix:<%%%> ( $num, $div ) { return Pair.new($num div $div, $num % $div ) }; say 333 %%% 3 ~ " and " ~ 777 %%% 8
camelia 111 0 and 97 1
jmerelo I could mix in a role that stringifies more beautifully, but that would be showing off. 20:36
Talking about off and away...
jmerelo goes AFK to my coach to watch b-series movies
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holyghost I'm also off to bed and a beer 20:42
El_Che in that order?
holyghost I have 2 pints left 20:43
AlexDaniel so yes
:)
holyghost lol
I am probably not going to reach a functional update of AI::Agent tomorrow 20:44
I go off to my kids on saturday
I hope I can manage next week with META.json and tests 20:46
20:47 holyghost is now known as holyghost[afk] 20:49 zxcvz left
holyghost[afk] now I have a headache 20:51
ok I am off to bed 20:53
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tobs I'm on the fence if I should claim a date for the advent calendar. I just started porting some code and its dependencies from a research project last year to Perl 6. It involves mostly propositional calculus and interfaces to various forms of SAT solvers. 21:21
It's a labor of love, but besides not being done with the module(s) yet, a blog post about it would be equal parts P6 and my applications in maths, so I'm not sure if it's suitable.
Is anyone able to comment/advise based on the information given? 21:22
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koto tobs, as far as I know, claims are almost always welcome when you have something to show, and your case sounds good to me(but keep in mind I am novice here). A completed module will be welcome but, I think, as a general rule, if you have some "Perl 6 code that nicely deals with something useful"(and math _is_ useful, and most programmers should know about propositional calculus :) ), I don't see anything wrong with it. 21:50
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tobs koto: thanks, that's what I wanted to hear :-) Then I think I make it dependent on the status of the main module by next week's end. (The material will become blog posts one way or the other, so nothing is lost.) 21:59
tbrowder___ tobs: i agree with koto 22:01
koto tobs, great. I mean, I read blogs posts about "Cool, nice tricks you can do with $language-thing you probably didn't try out" before and those were entertaining enough.
sjn too. A "This is what it looks like to port a project to Perl 6" report is always useful, and if one can learn a little math at the same time, that's an awesome bonus :) 22:02
or what you said :) 22:03
tobs sjn: such a report would be so-so, I suppose :-) I'm porting from sagemath, so I'm lucky that I only miss prop calc, but OTOH it's a chance to make the replacement more beautiful than it is (can be?) in their python dialect. 22:11
but I'll keep that in mind, too. 22:12
tobs is not a python programmer 22:14
SmokeMachine: while on that topic, I for one would like to read about Red, what it does and more importantly how. 22:25
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SmokeMachine tobs: id love to write about Red, but I’m not sure if it’ll be published yet... 22:39
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SmokeMachine tobs: I think I’ll publish it “as it is” any way... and write about it... what do you think? 23:06
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tobs SmokeMachine: maybe you don't even have to publish it beforehand. AFAICS, it uses traits extensively. From my point of view, that's an interesting design element that is probably already set in stone. 23:23
well, it's already published, but just not zeffable, I take it? 23:24
most of all though, I'm thinking about going to bed o/ 23:25
I for one haven't written traits myself, so what I was going at was this: I'd like to be told how traits are used in Red, how a trait is implemented and how nice a sample program using them looks. For me, that'd be enough already :) 23:26
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SmokeMachine tobs: yes, it’s on github... but it would better to the reader if he/she could zef install it to test, wouldn’t? 23:49
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