»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
SmokeMachine This way I can pass a “join” model instead of a real model... to make it easier to join... 00:00
vrurg SmokeMachine: except that I'd expect it to be :model(MyModel)? Or do you do string resolution into a model type?
Wow, I see! That'd probably would speed up some actions. 00:01
SmokeMachine It already do the string resolution because of the lazy load... but it will accept the Model obj type as well...
vrurg My biggest disappointemnt, so far is that there is a bug in rakudo with run-away closures. It breaks so many things around. :( 00:02
SmokeMachine vrurg: yes, probably...
SmokeMachine Yes... if it’s the bug I’m thinking of... I had to change a lot of stuff on Red to make it possible to remove the ‘no precompilation’ because of that... 00:03
discord6 <Aearnus> what's the syntax for coercing an argument to a type again 00:05
vrurg SmokeMachine: I think it's the one.
discord6 <Aearnus> sub f(Str(IO::Path) $s) or something like that?
vrurg Aearnus: yes, it's the syntax
SmokeMachine vrurg: I’m thinking of, on this api change, remove the red-do from experimentation and add it to core... what do you think? 00:06
vrurg SmokeMachine: why asking? My idea, your code. ;) Anybody disagree? Any one?? No? Ok! :D :D :D 00:07
SmokeMachine :D
cpan-p6 New module released to CPAN! Tomty (0.0.2) by 03MELEZHIK 02:05
Geth doc: e2effd77f8 | Alexander++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Literals and metacharacters: layout correction, introduction of new examples, minor corrections (#2957)
 04:01
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/regexes
aearnus[m] m: my @cmd; my @args; qqx( { @cmd } { @args } ) 04:59
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' (corresponding starter was at line 1)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my @cmd; my @args; qqx( { @cmd }7⏏5 { @args } )
expecting a…
aearnus[m] is that ^^^ right or can you not use `()` as string delimiters 05:00
aha, the docs explain it. nvm nvm! 05:03
aearnus[m] is there any way to make a class in a module that has the same name? like, I want to be able to import the `NSJail` class from the `NSJail` module 05:35
(I know I could do `NSJail::NSJail` but that's ugly)
Kaiepi aearnus[m], sub EXPORT is probably what you're looking for 07:51
aearnus[m] Kaiepi, what do you mean? 07:52
I just haven't seen that before
Kaiepi something like this hastebin.com/osihabifer.pl 07:53
i think this would let you `use NSJail` and have NSJail point to the class, but i'm not sure, i haven't used it in this way 07:54
aearnus[m] Ahh, didn't know that was something you could do
Kaiepi yeah, that works 07:55
Geth doc: 2d210b68d9 | (Luis F. Uceta)++ | 7 files
Proofread some documents

Changes mostly involve text reflow, whitespace and correcting minor typos.		 08:11
doc: cab26672cf | (Luis F. Uceta)++ | 2 files
Add changes as requested
doc: ec374a60e4 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 7 files
Merge pull request #2955 from uzluisf/doc-proofreading

Proofread some documents
scimon Morning. 09:00
aearnus[m] o/
SmokeMachine morning! 09:04
lizmat clickbaits p6weekly.wordpress.com/2019/08/19/...were-back/ 09:07
tellable6 2019-08-19T23:06:25Z #perl6 <tbrowder> lizmat great catchup weekly!
2019-08-19T23:53:05Z #perl6-dev <SmokeMachine> lizmat what event name would make you go?
scimon Read the weekly last night and this morning (and watch the Demythtfying talk) all good. 09:09
scimon I had a thought of something I can do if/when we rename I'll take the job of adding the new tag to all the stack overflow questions. 09:10
lizmat scimon: I understand there are maintainer tools for that to make that a lot easier 09:11
aearnus[m] So many little edge cases to handle. Who's going to change the Wikipedia article?
lizmat aearnus[m]: someone
aearnus[m] :) 09:13
kawaii for anyone interested, I'm going to throw together a pre-release of Rakudo Star 2019.07.1 since it doesn't look like there's anything happening in that regards 09:17
El_Che kawaii: there were a few people asking about it, so they'll be glad :) 09:19
scimon lizmat: Awesome! Still. I'll take stack overflow and once that's done will see what else I can help with. Assuming of course it's decided we're going to do it. I don't want to preempt things. 09:20
lizmat ++scimon 09:21
sena_kun lizmat++, a great weekly! # "I joined #prl6-dev" <- typo 09:29
"Meta-c omputation" <- redundant whitespace 09:30
lizmat sena_kun++ # both fixed 09:32
sena_kun \o/
scimon Is the only way to check if a Rat is going to give a divide by 0 error to check .denominator ? Is it worth adding a .safe (or some other name) method that gives False if the denominator is 0? 10:03
jnthn I think probably just checking the denominator is 0 is clear enough 10:05
scimon Yeah... I guess I would like to type less ;)
lizmat m: my $a = 42/0; dd +$a # sorta expected to see a Failure there 10:06
camelia <1/0>
scimon Ah but dd is special magic.
jnthn + is surely identity on a Rat :)
But yes, the actual division is delayed
scimon I think dd is using .perl which is fine it's the Str coercion that blows stuff up. 10:07
jnthn Right, it has to do the division then
scimon (I'm just working on the list of cool stuff to tell people about [INSERT LANGUAGE NAME HERE].
lizmat I was sorta expecting you could use prefix:<+> in combination with `with` as a quick way to see if a Rat is valid 10:08
aka, +Rat would check the denominator for you
scimon (I'm currently making the, probably futile, attempt to get Perl6 accepted as at least a potential language to make stuff in at Work.) 10:12
woolfy In case people are still a bit happy that Perl 6 entered the Tiobe index at #93, be sad that Perl 6 dropped out of the top 100 already. tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ 10:27
Languages that are in the Tiobe Index on place 51-100, listed in alphabetical order: (Visual) FoxPro, 4th Dimension/4D, ABC, Alice, BBC BASIC, bc, Bourne shell, C shell, CL (OS/400), Clipper, Clojure, CoffeeScript, Common Lisp, Crystal, cT, Erlang, Euphoria, Factor, Forth, Icon, Inform, Io, J, Korn shell, LabVIEW, Ladder Logic, LiveCode, Maple, Mercury, ML, Monkey, MQL4, MS-DOS batch, NATURAL, OpenCL, OpenEdge ABL, Oz, PL/I, Ring 10:29
tadzik given how obscure these are, I can't believe Perl 6 is not more popular than this, whatever your measure of popularity might be 10:30
make it seems like TIOBE is just not very good at distinguishing Perl and Perl 6
we'll see when Raku comes around... ;)
woolfy tadzik: any article that Google can find should have "Perl 6 programming" in it: tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-...efinition/ 10:31
tadzik: I think most people only write "Perl 6", "Perl6", "Rakudo Perl 6", and therefore any news about Perl 6 will not be picked up by Tiobe. 10:32
tadzik woolfy: yeah, I'm not a big fan of their methodology either :) 10:35
woolfy tadzik : it is not very important to be a big fan of Tiobe or not. It seems that quite a lot of people use it as a means to qualify or disqualify a programming language for their new projects. To have a programming language acceptable to be used inside their company. 10:39
It's a bit like people who do not believe in gravity: jump of a building and you will fall down, gravity doesn't care if you are a fan or not. ;-)
Geth doc/regexes: df1297024f | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Rewrite of regexes-lexical conventions section
 10:44
doc/regexes: 26b90051d4 | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
wip
doc/regexes: e258b433e5 | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Expansion of Regexes:Lexical Conventions section:

  - intro clarifying 'regular expressions' and 'regexes';
  - systematic treatment of anonymous and named regex definitions;
  - new subsection on common ways of matching regexes;
doc: tbrowder++ created pull request #2959:
tidy grammar		 10:46
doc: a7e659eb4b | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
tidy grammar
 10:49
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/regexes
doc: 7496243939 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Merge pull request #2959 from tbrowder/gram

tidy grammar
doc: threadless-screw++ created pull request #2960:
Regexes
scimon The "We won't use language X because it's not popular" circular argument is a thing. Unfortunately most businesses exist to make money and not train developers (or let devs do what they like). 10:54
So you get the vicious circle. No one pays people to write X so no one learns X because they can't get a job in it... sigh. 10:55
Critical mass is the thing (and why having a niche and / or a killer app is important). 10:56
Remember when everyone suddenly wanted to learn Ruby because Rails was a thing? (And then they killed it with their constant updates).
tadzik woolfy: you are correct :) 10:57
woolfy scimon and tadzik : it still makes me sad when stuff like this is correct...
I remember happily the time (I think it was the YAPC::Europe in Frankfurt) when we were sitting with a large group on the terrace in front of a restaurant, when masak arrived with the words "I found Perl 6 modules on darkpan" and we all rejoiced. 10:59
(or something like that)
tadzik well, to get back to the gravity example: it doesn't matter if we like it or agree with it, it's the best model of reality that we currently have, and the best we can do is work with that :)
scimon Yup. 11:39
Thing is. I'm not going to stop banging this drum. Because it's the only way for it to work. Keep chipping away.
Also point out "I thought you wanted autonomous teams?" (that one makes me laugh). 11:40
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: b9c597b3d7 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Add mention of pragmas and other places needing adaptation.
Ulti scimon popularity isnt quite the same as highly adopted though 11:54
especially adopted for production softeng 11:55
lizmat Whether you agree with this or not, a TIOBE listing means bankability of a language 11:55
we need bankability for Perl 6, because without it there will not be any commitment from companies using the language
woolfy -> Whether you agree with it or not, gravity means stuff falls down to Earth. 11:56
lizmat and without commitment from companies, there will not be any jobs
in Perl 6
nor will there be any money for grants
El_Che woolfy: out of the top 100? autch 12:10
scimon_ Ulti: You are not wrong. 12:11
Unfortunately perceived popularity can matter. 12:12
El_Che and to be blunt we don't have perceived popularity nor hidden adoption 12:18
cpan-p6 New module released to CPAN! App::AizuOnlineJudge (0.0.3) by 03TITSUKI 12:46
Ulti yeah I would say perceived popularity is kind of more important in open source, its how you get adoption because people will try out the language and related libraries at home and then introduce their place of work to it when they see a fit 13:04
going straight for corporate adoption feels a little strained, how can you actually target that without a lot of investment in solving specific problems for them and putting it in the core language? 13:05
and by investment I mean actual monetary investment and understanding of what problem space you'd take the language as a whole down... at that point it becomes more of a DSL for a task too 13:06
Ulti surely libraries are where one would expect adoption from companies 13:06
pmurias tadzik: some of the languages on that top 50 list seem not that obscure 13:09
tadzik: like say CoffeScript 13:11
tadzik some, yes
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 87d43430ed | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Separate next release from language release
 14:31
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 535d778c66 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Specify when "Perl 6" should be referenced
 14:34
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: dd6054cddd | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
NQP stays Not Quit Perl
 14:37
problem-solving/path-to-raku: d14804e6b0 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Elaborate a bit about changing external references
 14:40
HPWiz p6: say [\R+] 1…10; 14:44
camelia (10 19 27 34 40 45 49 52 54 55)
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: ce377bd9c6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Remove mention of marketing repo

We need new material, that's the important thing. Of course that will wind up in a repo.
FWIW, I mentioned a new repo because I thought we had lost the repo with Zoffix' departure.		 14:45
HPWiz The output above is unexpected to me, R+ is the same as +. It seems to reverse the list, then [\+] 14:46
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 2f5794b458 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Elaborated on special attention
 14:48
problem-solving/path-to-raku: 1b89762c28 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Elaborate on repo name changes and documentation changes
 14:53
¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel assigned to JJ Issue Specify documentation URLs github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/93 14:55
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 2b237b5ca8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Elaborate on effects on running sub-projects
 14:57
AlexDaniel HPWiz: you mean like this
c: 2015.03 say [\R+] 1…10;
committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦2015.03: «1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45 55␤»
AlexDaniel c: 2015.04 say [\R+] 1…10;
committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦2015.04: «10 19 27 34 40 45 49 52 54 55␤»
AlexDaniel bisect: 2015.03,2015.04 say [\R+] 1…10;
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, Using old=2015.03 new=2015.04 in an attempt to DWIM
AlexDaniel, Bisecting by output (old=2015.03 new=2015.04) because on both starting points the exit code is 0
HPWiz Right, It also seems inconsistent
p6: say [\R,] 1…10; 14:58
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, bisect log: gist.github.com/d6c57997b11764262d...f3018fbf1d
AlexDaniel, (2015-03-29) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/02...e408bede1b
camelia ((1) (2 1) (3 2 1) (4 3 2 1) (5 4 3 2 1) (6 5 4 3 2 1) (7 6 5 4 3 2 1) (8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1) (9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1) (10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1))
HPWiz Is what I expect
pmurias lizmat: "A mention to Perl 6 should only occur
"
lizmat: which mention - the one mentioned above? 14:59
robertle reportable6: not sure this qualifies, not really about perl 6 but more using perl 6 for some other point: www.semistable.com/#104 15:02
reportable6 robertle, I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Reportable
AlexDaniel did you mean weekly: ? :)
robertle yes :)
lizmat weekly: www.semistable.com/#104 15:03
notable6 lizmat, Noted! (weekly)
AlexDaniel HPWiz: looking at the commit ( github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/02e1e998218 ) it seems like it is meant to work that way 15:06
HPWiz: so `1 R+ 2 R+ 3` is identical to `3 + 2 + 1` 15:07
HPWiz I can seem what it's doing now, but I don't like how the triangular reduce depends on the associativity of the function
*see
AlexDaniel anybody wants a perl6 puzzle? I have code that is relatively short but the resulting behavior makes no sense whatsoever 15:15
AlexDaniel it could be that I'm just being dumb, but I've been staring at the thing for quite some time and I still don't get it 15:18
AlexDaniel and yeah, I'm hoping that somebody will figure out that bug in tellable6 :) 15:19
kensanata I have a different question: what does pl6anet.org/ run on? 15:20
AlexDaniel kensanata: what do you mean? The server, the code, something else? 15:21
kensanata AlexDaniel: I was hopping to get a URL to a git repo that describes a feed aggregator that creates static files because that's why I use myself but the software I use is Planet Venus which is written in Python 2 and I'd be interested in something that is written in Perl 6. 15:22
AlexDaniel kensanata: github.com/stmuk/pl6anet.org 15:23
kensanata AlexDaniel: Thanks! 15:24
AlexDaniel kensanata: now you help me :D
AlexDaniel so what I have is this github.com/perl6/whateverable/blob...ble.p6#L74 15:25
basically, the idea behind that line is that if you .tell to somebody and they reply immediately, the message won't be delivered
and you can see that in action here: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_lo...08-20#l116
so it works, right?
AlexDaniel except that a few minutes later it delivers these messages anyway: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_lo...08-20#l136 15:26
I have no explanation to that besides time travel
AlexDaniel my current hypothesis is that something in the for loop throws, so it ends up jumping out of that sub altogether 15:28
I'm not seeing any exception anywhere, so that's weird, but maybe maybe
now, after 10 minutes it no longer throws, so it ends up delivering the messages ( github.com/perl6/whateverable/blob...ble.p6#L30 ) 15:29
O_O
timotimo: I FIGURED IT OUT 15:30
O_O
okay!!
soo
kensanata: ok thank you!
timotimo: it doesn't trigger if you adress somebody!!
kensanata Hah 15:31
AlexDaniel timotimo: so in the log above, SmokeMachine was always talking to “lizmat: ”
AlexDaniel timotimo: and then it triggered on a message that didn't do that 15:31
kensanata on the "s"
AlexDaniel yeah
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: f3d057acc1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Elaborate a bit on community healing
 15:34
AlexDaniel kensanata: do you ever go to conferences? 15:36
kensanata: would be lovely to meet you one day :)
kensanata AlexDaniel: Hah. I very rarely do. I was at the Swiss Perl Workshop 2018 (the previous one)... and that's it. 15:42
kensanata AlexDaniel: If you ever come to Switzerland, we should meet up, for sure. 15:42
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 6b0041002e | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Add social media section
 15:43
AlexDaniel kensanata: sure :)
kensanata AlexDaniel: Or if you happen to be in the north of Portugal in the first half of September...
AlexDaniel that's less likely x)
kensanata Installing Perlanet feels like downloading half of CPAN. 15:44
Geth ¦ problem-solving: JJ self-unassigned X::MyModule::Foo or MyModule::X::Foo ? github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/57 15:48
Geth ¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel self-assigned X::MyModule::Foo or MyModule::X::Foo ? github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/57 15:51
AlexDaniel kensanata: good, now you have a backup ;) 15:55
Geth doc: b14b5c00aa | Coke++ | 2 files
whitespace
 15:56
kensanata AlexDaniel: HTML::Tidy failed, but still 85 things installed. Gah. 16:11
Well, it succeeded on the second attempt, so I guess some dependencies were missing somewhere. 16:12
El_Che (We, and all dynamic languages, do have a dependency problem) 16:36
rba kensanata: re pl6anet.org/ and github.com/stmuk/pl6anet.org keep me updated here please, as I'm on the way to take over the domain and need to prepare the hosting and likely fork the repo into perl6 github org 16:39
kensanata: you can watch this github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/86 to stay updated regarding the move 16:40
irced hey all, is it possible to declare a class method then define it elsewhere outside of the class definition itself (e.g. in another file)? directly or maybe by reference? (i realize i could create a subroutine and pass a reference to the object maybe even assign a variable in the class definition to name it but is there a less indirect way? 16:41
Geth doc/regexes: f819c26680 | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Rewrite of regexes-lexical conventions section
 16:42
doc/regexes: 195a4b9a1c | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
wip
doc/regexes: 0229474d9c | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Expansion of Regexes:Lexical Conventions section:

  - intro clarifying 'regular expressions' and 'regexes';
  - systematic treatment of anonymous and named regex definitions;
  - new subsection on common ways of matching regexes;
rba I've installed a znc (irc boucner; wiki.znc.in/ZNC). Does one like to jump on? Still do testing though. Yet this is my second installation and the first one was rocket stable, yet I needed it installed on a system with gcc >= 4.9 for a znc push module. 16:44
Let me know your nick and I will add it as a user.
vrurg irced: you can create an anonymous method and then add it to a class. 16:49
irced vrurg: thank you for the suggestion, i'll give it a go!
vrurg irced: look for .^add_method. There gotchas, though. 16:50
irced vrurg: ok, thanks for the reference and tip.
vrurg Best if you do it before a class is done composing. You may look at AttrX::Mooish code.
Geth doc/regexes: d7b48569e5 | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Expansion of Regexes:Lexical Conventions section:

  - intro clarifying 'regular expressions' and 'regexes';
   - systematic treatment of anonymous and named regex definitions;
   - new subsection on common ways of matching regexes;		 16:51
irced vrurg: ok 😃
vrurg irced: And to finalize, OO::Plugin builds a new class on the fly. Might be useful too. Check Manager.pm6. 16:52
irced vrurg: cool, gtk, thanks! 16:53
vrurg my pleasure! :)
AlexDaniel rba: well, if i'd like to route my bots through it, how would that work? 16:55
Geth doc: threadless-screw++ created pull request #2962:
Expansion of Regexes:Lexical Conventions section		 16:56
rba Al 16:57
AlexDaniel: I don‘t see the advantage for a bot. I use it mainly to get notifications and to be able to stay online and switch clients (mac, ipad, iphone). 16:59
AlexDaniel rba: so that there's no 18 leave+join messages whenever I upgrade rakudo on the server
rba AlexDaniel: Ah. We can try. Maybe we start with one to test? 17:00
AlexDaniel rba: and how will it work with the 10 connections per IP limit on freenode? 17:02
rba AlexDaniel: Hmm good point. Will check. 17:06
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 3118a7eb71 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Add historical matters
 17:17
rba AlexDaniel: Did you see the limit somewhere documented?
AlexDaniel rba: no but I've been hitting it in practice
rba: currently whateverables connect randomly from either ipv4 address or ipv6 one, so they're still below the 10+10 limit 17:18
rba AlexDaniel: Do you use SSL to connect, SASL or nickserv for the bots? 17:20
AlexDaniel rba: nickserv but it only allows 5 nicks to be logged in at the same time 17:20
rba AlexDaniel: Is it for freenode in general? Could you just connect different freenode servers? 17:23
rba AlexDaniel: We me just try using SASL to connect from znc to freenode. 17:28
AlexDaniel rba: not sure. Either way, that's probably not something for today 17:48
rba AlexDaniel: ok 17:55
lucasb hey RAKU! friends!! 18:17
AlexDaniel lucasb: we have a special cage for time travelers 18:25
El_Che I am failing to understand ugexe comment on the renaming thread. Picking new file extension, does not mean that the one in use will stop working. 18:37
and every dot release recompiles the world anyways, so even then it does not sound problematic to me 18:38
and Perl 5 isn't Perl 5. It doesn't have a zillion users shouting for an extreme form of backwards compatibility 18:39
hell, newer rakudos break old code once in a while 18:40
Grinnz (and count yourself lucky there)
El_Che (meant Perl 6 isn't Perl 6, but you got that :) ) 18:40
dman
Grinnz LOL
El_Che (meant Perl 6 isn't Perl 5, but you got that :) ) 18:41
I need a break :)
Grinnz IMO the important takeaway there is that the upgrade path should be worked out
AlexDaniel El_Che: well, newer rakudo versions shouldn't be breaking code… 18:44
I'm not sure what you have in mind but if something in particular then I was doing a bad job :)
AlexDaniel I think ugexe++ has a point 18:45
El_Che AlexDaniel: the great list refactoring, the new IO code, etc 18:46
AlexDaniel the PR doesn't really discuss how these small thinks will work in terms of backwards compatibility
El_Che and that's ok
AlexDaniel El_Che: GLR was before Christmas, it doesn't count
I don't remember much about IO stuff, but I think most of it was done in a way that didn't break much 18:47
and I think it happened before we started pushing for ecosystem toasting and stuff like that
AlexDaniel so no, we do our very best to prevent your code breaking with new rakudo releases 18:48
from*
lizmat I think if we would be able to bring out a Raku E later this year, it would be ok to start deprecating then for release in Raku F, and then remove in Raku G 18:50
which should put us about 2 years into the future
AlexDaniel lizmat: so that no longer feels wrong? :) 18:51
lizmat I said: " if we would be able to bring out a Raku E later this year" 18:52
AlexDaniel lizmat: ok then I don't understand. Because that to me means that 6.e will be released with no deprecations while the rename thing already landed 18:54
lizmat yes
MasterDuke anyone else seeing some flapping from t/spec/S02-types/subset-6e.t (existing before the float jit merge)
AlexDaniel lizmat: either way, this is something that can be clarified in the PR
lizmat MasterDuke: yes, I've seen if fail
vrurg MasterDuke: I have it. Fighting over the last several days. But it only happens then TEST_JOBS > 1 18:55
MasterDuke vrurg++ 18:56
vrurg MasterDuke: the problem is that I have no f* idea what happens because no output is possible. Tried runningf or 1000 times natively, via harness5, harness6 – nothing. `make spectest` – and every second run fails! 18:57
vrurg is currently relaxing on QAST programming. l( 18:58
kent\n > zef uses information from META6.json only # I imagine the suggestion here is that the name may need/want to be changed if the language ceases to be called "perl6". ( Maybe rakuMETA.json for example ) 19:03
lizmat kent\n: no, that's not the suggestion 19:05
kent\n I just suspect people will find that filename "odd" ;)
lizmat the provides section in a META6.json contains a filename
which currently ends in .pm6 generally 19:06
vrurg BTW, why would nqp::ctxlexpad complain about requiring MVMContext when it gets BOOTContext returned by nqp::ctxouter? 19:06
lizmat zef installs whatever is in the "provides"
and doesn't care about what the extension is, afaik
MasterDuke anyone want to chime in with a perl 6 example? twitter.com/karpathy/status/1163713702836625408 19:44
tbrowder uh, not i, but i do need help with inline perl 5 19:52
i have a p5 module (package CL) containing a hash %m = (k => {a => 1}); 19:55
in my p6 (raku) prog i use CL:from<Perl5>...never mind, i'll provide a gist 19:57
Geth doc/regexes: 22095edbc4 | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Minor corrections
 20:32
tbrowder i need some help on fixing the code at gist: gist.github.com/tbrowder/890714b6c...e2ca088e24 20:35
www.irccloud.com/pastebin/zdzmB9Tw/ 20:36
i have tried various things such as "my $h = %P5::h" that didn't work. 20:37
tbrowder note i have not tried using any export statements in the package... 20:40
trying that now... 20:41
no go!! 20:44
guifa Are dynamic variables supposed to be lost inside of promise threads? 20:45
[Coke] tbrowder: if you dd %P5::h before you try to use it, you'll see it's not initialized. 21:01
so you're doing my %foo = Any; # basically
tbrowder ok, is there a way at all to access the hash from p6? 21:02
i have in the past just rewritten the p5 module to p6 and that worked. and i have just been using p5 modules successfully (objects and funcs only thus far), so i was hoping to use p5 vars. 21:04
maybe make them p5 constants (which they are)? 21:05
[Coke] Dunno yet, digging. This works: gist.github.com/coke/55bdb09c953c8...ee0ba5d993 , so it seems theoretically possible.
tbrowder encouraging! 21:07
tbrowder niner's README says "Allows passing integers, strings, arrays, hashes, code references, file handles and objects between Perl 5 and Perl 6." 21:09
but i don't yet see an example...looking... 21:10
[Coke] so, it's clearly finding and doing something with the module (because if you rename it, it explodes). But if I immediately try to use "P5", it complains it doesn't exist. 21:13
.seen niner? 21:15
tellable6 [Coke], I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Tellable
[Coke] .seen niner
tellable6 [Coke], I haven't seen niner around, did you mean nine?
[Coke] .seen nine
tellable6 [Coke], I saw nine 2019-08-18T14:14:20Z in #perl6-dev: <nine> I think
[Coke] above my pay grade here, sorry
tbrowder [Coke]: thanks! 21:16
rba .seen jjmerelo 21:24
tellable6 rba, I saw jjmerelo 2019-08-19T06:47:00Z in #whateverable: <jmerelo> 1+^1
uzl[m] AlexDaniel Thanks for bringing up the issue about .first and .head. I myself have conflated them :-). However, with jnthn's explanation things are clearer. 21:43
AlexDaniel` uzl: I still feel weird about it
uzl: we have .head and .tail but .first and no .last, instead you do .first(:end) 21:44
uzl[m] AlexDaniel: I know. For some reason, it feels unbalanced ;-). However, I guess adding sintactic sugar for .first(:end) as .last wouldn't be worth the trouble. 21:49
AlexDaniel` 🤷
irced hey all, so i'm wrapping my head around concurrency and dabbling in the event driven paradigm, that said, given that i can react to a Supplier with a whenever block and that the whenever block assign $_ the value emitted, how would i go about a conjunction such as whenever $supply1 && $supply2 and examine their individual emissions ? 22:15
i tried .tap inside the whenever block but no dice (it seemeth) 22:17
[Coke] if it's event driven, you're saying you want to wait until you have an event from both? 22:18
irced Coke: exactomondo!
rba marketing.perl6.org/ is back online, yayh. 22:19
irced to note, I am able to use "&&" apparently, though this is more experimentation then documentation 22:22
perhaps there is a better way than && in the first
woolfy1 rba++
[Coke] if you have something going every 3 seconds and something going every 10s, what behavior are you looking for? 22:24
woolfy1: long time no see.
hi
irced the supplies are not intervals, and I am using them more like channels. 22:25
irced i have two domains that emit values and a third domain (that i call payload) will collect those values then emit itself (the payload). this is not based on any model i've seen in existence mind you. but I think I am still within the paradigm. 22:33
it emits its "self" to yet another domain. but anyway, i think this explains what behavior i'm looking for in the least. 22:34
[Coke] if the elements are paired, does it make sense to have something that emits a tuple instead? 22:35
irced the whole emits to another domain is accomplished by each domain having the supply or channel that it expects emissions from
no matter what "self" i emit, the fact is, i need to be sure two domains have provided the values to fill the pair/tuple 22:36
[Coke] (my interval question was trying to get at the root of that, what do you expect to happen if the events are not coming out at the same time)
irced i want to wait (non-blocking) and react only when both independent events have been triggered 22:37
regardless of which finished first and whether is was "simultaneous" (no synchronization idea involved here)
well loosely involved i guess 22:38
so it seems safe to use $supply1 && $supply2 this this reaction will only be true once the supplies have something to emit, and this happens only once in the lifecycle. 22:40
anyway, the problem with whenever $supply1 && $supply2 is i don't know how to get the emissions individually 22:41
i suppose i could chain reactions, seems lengthy but not nonsensical 22:42
using the topical variable in two blocks (one nested). 22:43
but it seems although tmtowtdi, some ways seem "too" long 😃anyway, trying that now
hmm, probably don't need to "start" nested, can block inside i think 22:54
jnthn irced: Maybe you want Supply.zip($supply1, $supply2) 22:57
irced it didn't work either way.
jnthn: oh
irced peers into the perl6 crystal ball. 22:58
irced jnthn: thanks for the suggestion trying it 23:03
irced jnthn: it's working, thanks! 23:12
Coke: thanks for the discussion and the suggestion to pass a simpler data structure! 23:15
irced hey all, i am passing a supplier to different classes after initializing it with Supplier.new, however, they don't all seem to see the same supplier. specifically, one sees Supplier.new and the other one sees Supplier[handleid...] is there an accepted way to ensure an empty supplier is the same wherever it is passed as an argument ? 23:52
basically, what is the correct way to pass suppliers unto other functions after they are initialized with $supply = Supplier.new 23:55
so that things don't break
😃 23:56
i mean, as soon as i do $supply = Supplier.new i get something like Supplier<94524891953648> but i pass it unto other functions and one of them for some weird reason sees Supplier.new 23:57
err, actually on another thread i start supplying and then it gets an id, just not in sequence so scrath that last statement 23:59
nevertheless, another function, which has been passed the supplier by name, never picks up on the id assignment

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