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brainstorming lists: gist.github.com/203173 paste.lisp.org/display/88288 IRC logs: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6book/today source: github.com/perl6/book/ Set by moderator on 9 October 2009. |
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| lichtkind | i skimmed through the is no much content yet i, is there any masterplan | 18:45 | |
| ? | |||
| moritz_ | see /topic | ||
| lichtkind | yes good plan | 18:47 | |
| get i commit bit or should i sent patches? | 18:48 | ||
| moritz_ | lichtkind: what's your github ID? | ||
| lichtkind | lichtkind :) | ||
| moritz_ | hugme: add lichtkind to book | 18:49 | |
| hugme hugs lichtkind. Welcome to book! | |||
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| lichtkind | haha | 19:03 | |
| moritz_ | it's funny, but you have a commit bit now ;-) | 19:08 | |
| jnthn | AND you had a hug. Could live get any better? | 19:09 | |
| :-) | |||
| Tene | I didn't even know about this until lichtkind typo'd a /join in another channel. | 19:10 | |
| japhb | Tene, yeah, not terribly well advertised ... I happened to notice it when glancing at the right time at my second screen on the day it was announced. | 19:11 | |
| Tene | I've debated on and off writing a Perl 6 course for $JOB, but the sales guys wouldn't really know what to do with it. | 19:13 | |
| moritz_ | well, there'll be an announcement | 19:14 | |
| oh, and contributions are very welcome! | |||
| ok, content question | 19:16 | ||
| should I assume that type-based multi dispatch is known at the time where we place the grammar chapter? | 19:17 | ||
| jnthn | moritz_: If it helps to get a good example, that sounds reasonable, yes. | ||
| moritz_ | jnthn: well, there are several options here... | 19:18 | |
| jnthn: either we just assume it's known | |||
| and have the JSON generation as a part of the example that doesn't really contribute to new features | 19:19 | ||
| or we use it to introduce simple multi dispatch | |||
| and put the chapter on real multi dispatch after it | |||
| jnthn | I think that while various things depend on multi-dispatch (e.g. operator overloading, parametric roles, etc), not so many features depend on grammars. | 19:20 | |
| moritz_ | third option: we tear it apart, and use it in an earlier chapter to introduce multis | ||
| and then just backreference it | |||
| jnthn | So I think there's probably more things wanting type based multi-dispatch already explained than there are things wanting grammars explained. | 19:21 | |
| Yes, that is a third option. | |||
| moritz_ | that still leaves opions 2 or 3 | ||
| *options | |||
| jnthn | Well, it means a grammars chapter can come later in the book without hindering explaining other things. | 19:22 | |
| So I'd say it's not a problem for it to rely on multi-dispatch. | 19:23 | ||
| moritz_ | ok, let's vote ;-) | ||
| who's in favour of #2, leaving as-is or 3# tearing generation and parsing of JSON apart? | 19:24 | ||
| s/ '3#' /#3/ | 19:25 | ||
| jnthn | moritz_: How many LOC roughly is the Whole Lot? | ||
| Is it small enough to be a managable example? | |||
| moritz_ | jnthn: JSON generation is 44 lines | ||
| grammar 78 | 19:26 | ||
| jnthn | 78 inc action methods to make a parse tree? | ||
| moritz_ | actions: 83 | ||
| jnthn | ah | ||
| moritz_ | glue code: 5 ;-) | ||
| jnthn | Hmm. I think we did something right. ;-0 | ||
| 78 + 83 is quite a bit. I do ponder that we may want to consider splitting it up. | 19:27 | ||
| That is, have the generation as a separate thing. | |||
| moritz_ | ok | ||
| jnthn | So I lean now a bit more towards #3. :-) | 19:28 | |
| moritz_ | ok | ||
| #3 it is then | |||
| lichtkind | jnthn: your right | 19:42 | |
| jnthn: i mean commit and hugh what else you need | 19:43 | ||
| i think even its not entirely written we should outline the things in each lesson that we plan to teach | 19:44 | ||
| not too strict but to have a plan | |||
| or else its a nightmare if we have more than one author | |||
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| dalek | ok: 0b0d299 | moritz++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod: first initial stub on an introduction to multi dispatch |
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| lichtkind | moritz_: is there consensus what to put into chapter one? | 20:43 | |
| moritz_ | lichtkind: there's consesus that it will be written last | 20:44 | |
| lichtkind | why? | ||
| moritz_ | (phone, bbl) | 20:45 | |
| lichtkind | right | ||
| moritz_ | back | 20:52 | |
| lichtkind: all later chapters build on the first one, so it's good to know what needs to be in that chapter when we write it | |||
| lichtkind | and i thought they build on each other | 20:55 | |
| moritz_ | that too | ||
| man recursion ;-) | |||
| lichtkind | doesn't make completely sense to me | ||
| moritz_ | well, it's not a very intuitive idea | 20:56 | |
| but it was proposed to us by people who have some experience writing books | |||
| Tene | I can confirm; it's a good idea. | 21:06 | |
| masak | it's also an excellent way to learn things. | ||
| lichtkind | so more important the squeeze everything about one topic into a chapter is to have a good code | 21:07 | |
| masak | that's what I think, too. | 21:08 | |
| well, 'good' as in 'a fitting example'. | |||
| much like in the Exigeses. | |||
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| PerlJam | I was thinking that a hangman game might make a good first chapter example | 21:16 | |
| (not Ovid's OOPy version though) | |||
| you can cover lexicals, scalars, arrays, hashes, loops, subroutines, etc. (almost all of the basics) pretty easily | 21:17 | ||
| But the last time I thought about it, I thought that it would be a very short chapter and not cover everything. | 21:18 | ||
| moritz_ | well, one can digress, and go deeper into various subjects than necessary for the example | 21:28 | |
| lichtkind | i would like something more positive than hangman | 21:32 | |
| moritz_ | unhangman? | ||
| PerlJam | you know when you guys said "like the exegeses" the other day, I really thought of it more like Goedel Escher Bach with two voices explaining the same things in different ways. I wonder how well that would work out? | ||
| lichtkind: well, some simple game of similar complexity then. I'm not married to hangman :) | |||
| lichtkind | :) | 21:34 | |
| moritz_ | speaking of positive approaches... suggest something more positive then ;-) | ||
| lichtkind | i will tell if i found | 21:35 | |
| anyway i more for the just do it approach | |||
| PerlJam | lichtkind: then please, just do it :) I and others will riff off of whatever you do if it fits. | 21:36 | |
| moritz_ | well, you have to have an idea what to do to do it | ||
| *in order to do it | 21:37 | ||
| lichtkind | yes i currently more on my wxperl stuff but since i do p6tuts for some time i think next weeks will show what ideas come up | 21:46 | |
| hooray i managed to load the book via git | 21:47 | ||
| cognominal | what is the forlder hierarchy for translations? I have started the french translation | 23:16 | |
| masak | whoa. :) | ||
| cognominal | we (les mongueurs de Perl) publish article on perl in the french linuxmag, so I hope we can make that a special issue when it is finished | 23:20 | |
| *articles | |||