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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
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jaguart ugexe: I have windows native, virtualbox, so can spin up a WIN vm if you want me to 01:27
ugexe are you able to replicate any of these issues on them, i.e. not just on github actions? 01:28
jaguart tonyo: there is a common but intermittant error installing TAP on 2022.12
I will give it a spin over the next couple of days and get back with the findings 01:29
one fix at least we coud raise is the silent exception failure - i.e. there was no message as to why state was bad 01:30
on a seperate question - anyone experience with running Raku on a Rocky Linux system with lots of cores? 01:32
I think Rocky is RHEL community derivative 01:33
rf I have experience running on a SUSE machine
If that's similar enough haha
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rf They're both RHEL derivatives 01:34
jaguart I have Debian'ed for years - but only with up to 64 cores, 128 threads. I'm thinking more a 180,000 core machine 01:35
hardware at one of the Uni's I'm looking at
rf Oof, is that GPU or cluster machines?
Man TIL that you can chain that many CPUs together 01:37
jaguart checking spec: 145,000 CPU, 640 GPU, 560TB RAM
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jaguart but other papers say more cores now 01:38
rf Run 145,000 instances of humming bird
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Nemokosch 😼 01:42
tonyo jaguart: i don't have rocky but opensuse and my computer is a 24 core machine 02:37
oh, nvm, you're an order of magnitude past 02:38
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jaguart m: my Str $a="a"; given $a { default { say "def" }; when Str { say "str" } }; 06:17
camelia def
jaguart this surprised me a bit - expected `default` to be checked last
is it just sugar for `True`? 06:18
Geth ecosystem/main: 435f38edad | (Márton Polgár)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Time::Duration moved to fez

Related to the discussion of github.com/dagurval/p6-Time-Duration/issues/14.
  @masukomi has taken over the module, updated the file to META6.json among other things, and published it on the "zef ecosystem".		 06:24
ecosystem/main: 673510668e | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Merge pull request #612 from 2colours/patch-1

Time::Duration moved to fez
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jaguart inspecting an Attribute shows a method called `.dimensions` - can't find in docs - anyone know? 07:46
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Voldenet .dimensions sounds like something related to shaped arrays 08:31
jaguart it's a method on Attribute... 08:38
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Nemokosch well, we could do some sourcery, no? 09:26
not saying that I'm moving mountains to recover File::Find but in addition to that discussion on Twitter in november, I did try to reach out to Tadeusz by email as well - no avail 09:28
at this point I'm thinking that maybe I could just fork it? do you have any additional idea? 09:29
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ugexe Hmm, trying to install rakudo on Win11 ARM gives a gmake error after doing a bunch of stuff with gmake that makes it appear like it would have kept working - pastebin.com/Y6iePLsw 13:01
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ugexe actually im guess I need to install nmake, and that gmake is only getting found from installing git 13:09
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Skarsnik nmake is to work only with msvc I think? 14:03
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rf Does anyone know if closures and blocks in Raku are boxed? 15:02
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Nemokosch I for one don't know what boxing means 😅 15:05
rf Heap allocated basically 15:06
Just wondering how much performance I can expect using an effect driven system in Raku
Mainly because Humming-Bird uses closures a lot 15:07
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Nemokosch this question probably requires some runtime-specific knowledge. All I know is that the best thing that can happen is inlining 15:18
rf Yeah, I'm going to take a look at Moar this weekend and see if I can figure it out 15:27
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[Coke] jaguart: I suspect that's a very particular attribute. Do you know what type it is? 15:45
ah, no, Attribute class itself has an attribute dimensions 15:46
Looking at the source, I don't see that it *does* anything, though. :P 15:47
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[Coke] getting a segfault on a script that does "use JSON::Tiny; use lib '../raku-lib/'; use <a thing>; use <second thing>;' 16:35
all three modules seem to be required.
this is on windows 2022.07
local stuff isn't using nativecall, pretty sure JSON::Tiny isn't 16:38
had to remove the .precomp dir! 16:39
Haven't had that situation in a while. Might have been due to a temporary upgrade to 2022.12 that I had to back out?
ugexe generally i think you'd want to have the `use lib '...'` first, although i dunno if thats related 16:42
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ugexe otherwise you're loading a module, changing the repo chain, then trying to load other modules which themselves might try to load JSON::Tiny but now potentially from the `use lib '...'` source unlike the original import 16:43
rf How is native call code distributed? If I want to ship some C code with Raku would I just use zef? 16:55
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cfa 👋 16:59
drakonis humming-bird? 17:00
rf ?
drakonis what's humming-bird again? 17:01
doesnt seem like you explained what that is
rf My web framework :^)
drakonis oh i see
fair enough
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ugexe jaguart: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/5168 17:51
p6steve rf: the raku module scheme, particularly Build.pm, offers some help with NativeCall and libraries docs.raku.org/language/modules 17:53
class Build { method build($dist-path) { chdir 'dan'; warn ' Building Rust Polars library (may take a few minutes).'; my $proc = Proc::Async.new: <cargo build>; $proc.bind-stdout($*ERR); my $promise = $proc.start; await $promise; chdir '..'; mkdir 'resources'; mkdir 'resources/libraries'; move
'dan/target/debug/libdan.so', 'resources/libraries/libdan.so'; warn 'Build successful'; exit 0 } }
this is my latest effort from github.com/p6steve/raku-Dan-Polars...n/Build.pm 17:54
ugexe Build.pm might go away one day (we've been saying forever). ideally one does what Inline::Perl5 does and uses github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/blob...on#L58-L68
p6steve so it calls 'cargo build' (since this is rust) and then sticks the newly minted SO into the right dir 17:55
ugexe this way its declarative, i.e. an installer like zef can look at the meta data without having to extract the archive just to determine if there is a build step
rf I see, thanks for this! 17:56
p6steve ugexe: looks very nice - maybe you could say it in the docs? since some of us haven't heard the message 17:57
ugexe github.com/ugexe/zef#build-paths 17:58
p6steve ugexe: since it takes a few minutes to build my SO would your method echo out line by line status...?
ugexe off the top of my head i dunno, but probably if --verbose or --debug 17:59
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rf Gonna play around and see if I can get a C++ FFI working, i'll make a repo for reference 18:01
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ugexe if Distribution::Builder::MakeFromJSON doesn't do exactly what you need you can always create a new Distribution::Builder:: module that does 18:03
p6steve yeah - or PR it ... look I made an issue in my own module (but probably will be a while before it gets to the top of the list) github.com/p6steve/raku-Dan-Polars/issues/9 18:04
github.com/Raku/doc/issues/4186 18:07
rf Is there a security problem regarding the fact that installing a module via fez is case-sensitive?
Sorry for random, just thought of this while failing to install Mi6 on my new machine 18:08
ugexe how would that be a security issue and not the other way around? 18:09
rf What if I make a module on zef that's app::mi6 that deletes your files?
Nemokosch also, there can be (and there are) dists with only a case difference
rf Or is uploading case sensitive?
insensitive*
ugexe you can have two modules Foo and FOO, and they are treated as different 18:10
rf So if app::mi6 were to come around vs. App::Mi6, I think this could be a security problem 18:11
ugexe i mean in the same way that app::m6 is a security problem
or App::M6
rf I'm not sure those are the same 18:12
ugexe you have to explicitly ask for "app::mi6"
Nemokosch it all boils down to how you feel about it
ugexe you cant ask for App::MI6 and maybe get app::mi6
Nemokosch seems like quite a voluntaristic "security challenge"
rf Yeah I guess there is some give and take 18:13
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rf Just food for thought 18:16
[Coke] ugexe: I tend to write 'use zef installed modules', 'use lib', 'use local stuff that isn't installed
... see your line two. ok, makes sense. Was trying to do the right thing, but I see that it does potentially cause issues.
ugexe [Coke]: thats how i naturally do it as well, but i force myself to do what i described when i do catch myself 18:17
[Coke] what about having something like { use JSON...; } later in the file to restrict scope of the included module? 18:19
ugexe that doesn't change which one gets loaded 18:20
in both cases its essentially the same module, but loaded by a different repo 18:23
tonyo uploading is case sensitive 18:39
rf: fez addresses half of that issue. because the ecosystem is case sensitive and can have the same dist by multiple authors (eg three modules with the name `JSON` all with different dist strs: `JSON:auth<zef:tony-o>`,`JSON:auth<zef:tonyo>`...), the strictness in auth strs becomes more important 18:42
rf Makes sense! 18:43
tonyo there was some talk of wiring in the module loaders to look at the meta json to determine stricter required dist strings and so you don' 18:45
t have to type `use JSON:auth<xxx>:ver<xxx>...` everywhere you want to use JSON in your lib but i don't know where that went
rf If I want to use native call does the library need to be compiled as a shared object? 18:47
My first time ever using any sort of FFI, so may be a dumb question 18:48
tonyo: I like that, but more for selecting the install candidate
tonyo i don't believe so 18:49
rf Missed a good pun, "I don't believe .so" ;D 18:51
p6steve rf: yes 18:54
rf ugexe: So for building via META6.json, can I just make it run a command or do I have to make a builder module for it 19:00
p6steve rf: longer answer is that (i) i don't know, (ii) the POSIX example in the docs doesn't seem to need an explicit SO (I guess that linux has some defaults) and (iii) what I mean is that if you are writing code on the C side, then an SO seems like the obvious way to call it 19:03
rf Yeah I'm writing C++, I'll give both a try and report back
p6steve docs.raku.org/language/nativecall#...rd_library 19:13
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tonyo rf: heh, nice one 19:53
rf: this repo has an example of building from src during install github.com/tony-o/perl6-libyaml 19:55
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[Coke] is so happy his segfault was just a precomp issue. 20:06
(I mean, still shouldn't happen, but at least I can run my code again) 20:07
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p6steve anyone here with SO privileges 21:07
stackoverflow.com/questions/444174...puseragent
i would vote for formal removal of that post and that author
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^ tonyo++ 21:13
fwiw I'm a bit sceptical about a declarative build approach 21:14
tonyo that question was asked in 2017 21:17
p6steve: in what way?
tellable6 tonyo, I'll pass your message to p6steve
p6steve seems like a lot of subtle steps needed to do a build ... 21:23
Distribution::Builder::MakeFromJSON uses information from your META6.json and the running system to fill variables in a Makefile.in template and build your distribution.
BUT .. I am doing a cargo build 21:24
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ugexe is cargo the lowest common denominator we must support? 21:26
in that sense it doesn't really matter what you are doing outside of raku
otherwise just include some script with your e.g. Distribution::Builder:: that can fill in a makefile.in 21:27
then you run that to package your stuff for e.g. debian, cargo, whatever
Here is what Build.pm is: download this archive file, and you also have to open that archive file to even know if you can install it because it might have a Build.pm and that Build.pm itself might do all sorts of random stuff 21:28
that is somewhat the case with Distribution::Builder:: stuff as well in that it can do all sorts of random stuff, but we can potentially know some/all of it before extracting and authors can converge on known safe Distribution::Builder::s 21:29
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ugexe building a Build.pm isn't straight forward either 21:33
rf Speaking of those, I am writing one for CMake because I thought it would be fun 21:34
ugexe it exists in the same directory as a META6.json but isn't declared as provided (because it isnt), so `raku -I. -e 'use Build; Build.new.build("whatever")'` wouldnt work
rf p6steve: It does need to be a .so, in the case of C++ at least 21:35
tellable6 rf, I'll pass your message to p6steve
ugexe in short: Build.pm is great for module authors to easily do whatever they want on your system. its terrible for everyone else (module users, packagers, etc)
p6steve hmmm - I think that you are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist 21:37
ugexe i think you're confused; multiple people came together to solve this problem and come up with this solution. i actually implemented very little of it
p6steve if you want the author to build stuff to make a module reasonably easy, then use the module, otherwise, don't 21:38
Distribution::Builder:: is just moving the issue around
ugexe i find it hard to believe that in the last day you needed to figure out how to do this for the first time, and already you are certain the problem a given solution was designed to fix doesn't exist 21:39
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p6steve I am not certain - and I defer to the judgement of those that know better 21:42
ugexe design.raku.org/S22.html#Dependency_hints 21:43
mispaste^
Nemokosch well the same design documents contained the concept of a "module recommender" or what it was, also they contained the concept of smartmatch on matches as "pick the rhs" and possibly other things that just don't seem to be worth protecting 22:31
cfa: are you around by any chance?
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Homer_Simpson anyone know why this: my $fp = open "data.ldr", :r; 22:33
my @myarray = $fp.lines.map(*.comb.lines);
prints 3 spaces when the file only has 1
print(ords(@myarray[0][])); # 49 32 32 32 54 22:34
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Nemokosch pretty sure you converted a list to a string some way 22:36
Homer_Simpson removin .lines doesnt help 22:37
removing*
Nemokosch you have a two-dimensional list, right? 22:38
ords operates on strings, not lists
Homer_Simpson i think so
print is doing the same thing
I used ords to try to print it as decimal
because I didnt know how else to do that 22:39
tonyo we do have build requirements in the META iirc, warthog ended up in the META resolution, no ugexe ?
Nemokosch you should rather call ord on the individual elements 22:40
Homer_Simpson I would like print to just print: 1 6 then newline
not 1 6 then newline
I thought the code was converting 1 6 into ('1',' ','6','\n') 22:44
then thats one dimention, the next line would be the next dimention
so that way I could index everything seperate as well as just do @myarray to print the whole array 22:45
trying to print each element seperatley with ords give me a nil error 22:46
Use of Nil in string context
tonyo Homer_Simpson: what's the data.ldr look like? 22:50
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Homer_Simpson 1 6 22:52
3 8
5 10
tonyo actually, ugexe , does it make sense for me tolook at extending the META resolution to also include build steps?
m: my @array = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10".lines.map(*.comb.lines); dd @array;
camelia Array @array = [("1 6",).Seq, ("3 8",).Seq, ("5 1 0",).Seq]
tonyo m: my @array = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10".lines; dd @array; 22:53
camelia Array @array = ["1 6", "3 8", "5 10"]
tonyo seems more like what you want 22:54
Homer_Simpson the array is from a file 22:55
tonyo so do $fp.lines 22:57
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Homer_Simpson I dont understand 22:59
my @myarray2 = $fp.lines; 23:01
print(@myarray2[0][0]); # Use of uninitialized value element[0] of type Any in string context.
tonyo m: my @array = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10".lines.map(*.split(' ', 2)); dd @array; 23:11
camelia Array @array = [("1", "6").Seq, ("3", "8").Seq, ("5", "10").Seq]
tonyo use $fp.lines.map(*.split(' ', 2)) 23:12
Homer_Simpson well now you've just removed the spaces all together 23:15
so how is raku supposed to know the difference between 1 6 and 11 6 23:16
if theres no space
and how does it differentiate between 1 6 without a space and 16 23:17
where tf is @lizmat 23:19
this is going round in circles
lizmat you rang ? 23:20
Homer_Simpson yeah 23:21
<Homer_Simpson>
I would like print to just print: 1 6 then newline
lizmat please state the nature of the medical emergency
Homer_Simpson but the code is printing 1 6 (3 spaces) 23:22
lizmat say "1 6"
evalable6 1 6
Homer_Simpson hold on
tonyo well, you're not being clear about what exactly you'd like, you want an array of numbers or an array of each ord or ...
Homer_Simpson my $fp = open "data.ldr", :r; 23:23
my @myarray = $fp.lines.map(*.comb.lines);
print(ords(@myarray[0][])); # 49 32 32 32 54
I was using ords to make sure they were spaces indeed
I was using print before
lizmat what do you think *.comb.lines does ? 23:24
Homer_Simpson I assume it is chopping every character (*) into an array element 23:25
per line
each line is another dimension in the array 23:26
lizmat first of all: you don't need if you're just reading lines
Homer_Simpson err wait
lizmat my @myarray = "data.ldr".IO.lines.map(*.comb)
Homer_Simpson the lines are in the 0th dimention the chars are in the 1st dimention
lizmat that would create an array with each character of each line (without newlines) 23:27
aha... ok 23:29
my @myarray = "data.ldr".IO.lines.map(*.comb.List)
disregard my first response :-) 23:30
m: my @a = "abc\ndef\n".lines.map(*.comb.List); dd @a 23:31
camelia Array @a = [("a", "b", "c"), ("d", "e", "f")]
lizmat like that ?
m: my @a = "abc\ndef\n".lines.map(*.comb.List); dd @a[0,1]
camelia ($("a", "b", "c"), $("d", "e", "f"))
lizmat m: my @a = "abc\ndef\n".lines.map(*.comb.List); dd @a[0;1]
camelia "b"
Homer_Simpson that works thx 23:32
but I need the newlines in 23:33
and doing print(@array) prints 3 spaces again 23:34
lizmat m: my @a = "abc\ndef\n".lines(:!chomp).map(*.comb.List); dd @a[0;3]
camelia "\n"
lizmat m: my @a = "abc\ndef\n".lines(:!chomp).map(*.comb.List); print @a 23:35
camelia a b c
d e f
lizmat I don't see 3 spaces ?
I see a space / newline / space
but that's because you wanted the newlines
Homer_Simpson ill screendump 23:36
i.imgur.com/jKtxpag_d.webp?maxwidt...lity=grand 23:38
lizmat sorry, my system doesn't understand .webp 23:39
Homer_Simpson ok 2 mins
tonyo if you just want the chars, why not split on '' 23:40
m: my @array = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10".lines.map(*.split('')); dd @array;
camelia Array @array = [("", "1", " ", "6", "").Seq, ("", "3", " ", "8", "").Seq, ("", "5", " ", "1", "0", "").Seq]
tonyo m: my @array = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10".lines.map(*.split('', :skip-empty)); dd @array; 23:41
camelia Array @array = [("1", " ", "6").Seq, ("3", " ", "8").Seq, ("5", " ", "1", "0").Seq]
Homer_Simpson usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/...j/hell.png
tonyo m: my @array = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10".lines.map(*.split('', :skip-empty)); dd @array; dd @array[0][0];
camelia Array @array = [("1", " ", "6").Seq, ("3", " ", "8").Seq, ("5", " ", "1", "0").Seq]
"1"
tonyo Homer_Simpson: if you want spaces preserved in the array try $fp.lines.map(*.split('',:skip-empty))
lizmat this isn't about spaces in the source, but spaces in the output right ? 23:42
I wonder whether it is Comma is sort HTMLizing the output, so that the newline is just another whitespace ? 23:43
Homer_Simpson yes
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Homer_Simpson i think comma is being stupid 23:43
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lizmat what does the "data.ldr" file look like ? 23:44
Homer_Simpson 1 6 23:45
3 8
5 10
lizmat m: aha, ok
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routines:
aha used at line 1
ok used at line 1
lizmat m: my @a = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10\n".lines(*.comb.List); say @a 23:46
camelia [1 6 3 8 5 10]
lizmat m: my @a = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10\n".lines(*.comb.List); print @a
camelia 1 6 3 8 5 10
lizmat m: my @a = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10\n".lines(*.comb.List); dd @a
camelia Array @a = ["1 6", "3 8", "5 10"]
Homer_Simpson Cannot resolve caller Numeric(WhateverCode:D: ); none of these signatures matches: 23:47
(Mu:U \v: *%_)
in block <unit> at .\new.raku line 2
lizmat hmmm
m: my @a = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10\n".lines.map(*.comb.List); print @a 23:48
camelia 1 6 3 8 5 1 0
lizmat so that's the 3 spaces you were talking about
Homer_Simpson yeah that still prints it weird like before 23:49
i.e like in my screenshot
lizmat m: my @a = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10\n".lines.map(*.split(" ").List); say @a
camelia [(1 6) (3 8) (5 10)]
lizmat m: my @a = "1 6\n3 8\n5 10\n".lines.map(*.split(" ").List); print @a 23:50
camelia 1 6 3 8 5 10
lizmat sleep&
Homer_Simpson now I get 1 6 3 8 5 10 23:51
my file is UTF8 I dont think that should be a problem though 23:52
tonyo guess it only works if lizmat types it 23:53
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