| 26 Sep 2023 | |||
| nemokosch | but then how can they be not equal, lol | 17:21 | |
| m: say 10e8.Int == 1000000000 | |||
| Raku eval | True | ||
| nemokosch | maybe I miscounted | ||
| oh right, 10e8 is 10**9 actually | 17:22 | ||
| but anyway, the type is not the same, that much is for sure. | |||
| grondilu: if this is causing problems for you, I honestly encourage you to make an issue for it. I do think that it's a very significant problem that the multi dispatch resolution order is basically un(der)defined behavior and I'm sure there are other people who think the same | 17:24 | ||
| it's like, we are stronger together, bluntly put | 17:26 | ||
| if there are problems, it's the worst to let passivity and comfort to take over | |||
| tonyo | you wouldn't be alone in that ^. currently following 386 or i'd take a look at it | 17:28 | |
| nemokosch | github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/5377 here's this PR from recently. A relatively easy fix for a corner case | 17:31 | |
| Originally, I just wanted to create a separate multi candidate for the happy path... I think? I should have noted what happened exactly. | 17:32 | ||
| But in vague terms, I created candidate C which made something that originally dispatched to candidate A, dispatch to candidate B. I haven't touch either of those candidates | 17:33 | ||
| touched* | |||
| actually, I did document what happened reasonably well in the issue (#5340) itself | 17:38 | ||
| grondilu | posting an issue is not always the best imho. In this case, I think I failed to realize that Rat(Cool) is less specific than Real. Because of the (Cool), I suppose. | 17:50 | |
| anyway I think I finally manage to write that class for Quadratic Irrationals I wanted: gist.github.com/grondilu/b70fb0d8a...3f3a7317c6 | 18:23 | ||
| It does Real, but man I had to define so many of the operators. | |||
| Using Bridge was so not possible that I ended up stubbing it so that the code halts whenever it tries to use it. | 18:25 | ||
| nemokosch | maybe it is less specific, maybe it isn't. I mean, it's useful that you are able to convince yourself but really, I think it's telling that there is no proper material about multiple dispatch | 18:29 | |
| grondilu | If you look at lines 78 to 98, really all these lines should be inherited from Real IMHO. I shouldn't have to write them down myself. | ||
| nemokosch | and smartmatch to a coercive type is broken for a long time, perhaps since the COERCE protocol landed | ||
| so there definitely are issues, it's not all just our poor understanding | 18:30 | ||
| grondilu | maybe | ||
| nemokosch | 'almafa' ~~ Real() was False until late 2020 iirc | ||
| grondilu | still I'm not keen on posting issues unless it's really bothering me. | 18:31 | |
| nemokosch | it's True since, go figure, I think False was right | ||
| the funny thing is, I think you might be the person who caused me to open the most issues | 18:32 | ||
| actually, not just about the issues opened, the person who brought the largest amount of problematic code to ponder about | 18:33 | ||
| grondilu | lol I've heard that before. I've been told I have a knack to find weird issues or something. | 18:35 | |
| The thing is, usually when I start a toy project in raku, I stumble upon a bug. That being said, it's becoming rarer these times as raku matures. | 18:36 | ||
| nemokosch | but as much as I can recall, most of the things you tried to do made sense for me, it's not like you clearly did "something that hurts" | ||
| from my personal perspective, the problem is really that I'm a golem when it comes to stuff like this and I engage in this rather shitty role of bringing problems and criticism | 18:40 | ||
| eventually, if I bring up stuff like this, it will be just received with some personal remarks and swept away, to be honest | 18:42 | ||
| stanrifkin | Is there a v6.e feature list? | 19:34 | |
| tonyo | nemokosch: i don't think any of us find it shitty that you bring up issues, it generally hardens the language to not have gaps everywhere | 19:52 | |
| rather, most of us appreciate it. | |||
| nemokosch | well, there are direct and indirect ways in which it can appear to me that certain issues inflate by the mere fact that I bring them up | 20:11 | |
| antononcube | Some actively encourage it. (Willingly or not...) | ||
| nemokosch | sometimes it's the lack of feedback for a problem-solving issue that is either very important or very actionable (as in, I gave loads of details and proposed a solution, like the one with the Raku books) | 20:13 | |
| sometimes it's the ad nauseam "whatever, that's just your opinion" | 20:14 | ||
| the latter in itself makes me cling onto whenever I see others have the same issue | 20:15 | ||
| tonyo | sometimes it's difficult to see past your own opinion, particularly when someone else shares it and silence on the topic is the norm because it's mostly a non-issue for them. most of have been called on that in some capacity, including myself, ugexe, lizmat, nine, etc | 20:35 | |
| but it doesn't mean the enthusiasm and role are for naught, everyone benefits from it when it's constructive conversation | 20:36 | ||
| nemokosch | I think there are several "sleeping issues" thanks survivor bias, that is, when it's not surprising that it's not an issue to most of you, because if it were an issue for you, you would have just walked away | 20:37 | |
| this is part of the reason I don't believe in "democratic methods" much for certain topics | 20:40 | ||
| I much rather believe in traditional arguments compiled from evidence, fundamental value judgements and deduction | 20:42 | ||
| and it happened just today that I compiled a large argument and it got shut down by "you've already got to say your opinion" | 20:43 | ||
| are "this is very useful" and an analysis of cost-benefit, or giving alternative solutions to a problem, all just "opinions" on equal terms? | 20:46 | ||
| tonyo | giving solutions to things people don't think are problems is always a dead end. from what i've seen, the value judgements need to align with the overall goals of the project. having one way to do something is very far from the goals of raku or it's mother language in general and, especially in raku, it's important to balance one's personal preference/opinion/experience with the language | 20:57 | |
| having only one way* | 20:58 | ||
| nemokosch | well, this particular case was about the for-else proposal of Damian Conway back in an article, so the "problem" was defined by Damian | 21:13 | |
| I think it really was (would have been, rather) a good opportunity to at least try to address why we have such a different view of the usefulness of it | 21:14 | ||