buggable 🎺🎺🎺 It's time for the monthly Accidental /win Lottery 😍😍😍 We have 2 ballots submitted by 1 users! DRUM ROLL PLEASE!... 00:00
And the winning number is 3! Congratulations to [Coke]! You win a roll of duck tape!
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brrt good hi #moarvm 05:05
.seen jnthn
yoleaux I saw jnthn 30 May 2018 21:01Z in #perl6-dev: <jnthn> nine++ for not taking the nqp:: shortcut outside of the Rakudo repo :)
samcv good hi brrt :) 05:06
brrt good hi samcv 05:13
i'll take a look at those coverity things later :-) 05:19
samcv cool :) 05:58
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Geth MoarVM: ff312c4cf8 | (Bart Wiegmans)++ | 4 files
[JIT] Fixes for coverity

  - use MVM_ARRAY_SIZE, which I want to promote to a 'global' macro at
   some point
  - add a 'tiny bitmap' function for single MVMuint64 bitmaps
  - precompute the size of the templates array (so we can't overflow),
   although we couldn't in reality (the templates array is equal in size
   to the defined opcodes, and non-defined opcodes can't be present in
   the spesh graph)		 07:02
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samcv brrt++ 07:30
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Redfoxmoon Is cross compilation supported at all? 08:14
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lizmat Redfoxmoon: not at the moment, afaik, but I know of some people thinking of getting this off the ground this year 09:30
Redfoxmoon hmmmm
I see, does the interpreter need to run while building? 09:31
lizmat if you're talking about Moar, I don't think so 09:32
Redfoxmoon Yeah, that's interesting
lizmat in the case of Perl 6: well, parts of Perl 6 are written in Perl 6 09:33
Redfoxmoon heheh.
lizmat but you could argue that it is still nqp running when compiling Perl 6
Redfoxmoon so you could in theory cross compile moarvm and use it to build perl 6 natively?
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lizmat Redfoxmoon: sorry, was afk: but yes, in theory, yes 10:03
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brrt Redfoxmoon: note that some parts of rakudo are written as extensions to moarvm, so these would need to be crosscompiled as well 10:16
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brrt and there are some, too (me), who would prefer that to be not the case 10:19
Redfoxmoon mmmm interesting 10:20
so in theory moarvm could be autotoolized and it would "just work" heheh. 10:23
except perhaps the pesky visual studio stuff
brrt meh, i'd rather stay away from autotools if it's all the same :-) 10:26
i mean, Configure.pl is already to complicated for what it does
oh that reminds me 10:27
.tell samcv that instead of per-compiler 'likely' flags, we can use '#ifdef _MSCV_VER' and friends
yoleaux brrt: I'll pass your message to samcv.
brrt the idea being that i want to move things out of Configure.pl if at all possible 10:28
(because Configure.pl has to probe and estimate the compiler, whereas the compiler knows which compiler it is, so to speak)
Redfoxmoon well, plain makefiles can be used too 10:31
I'll have a stab at it later today / tomorrow
brrt alright, let us know how it goes 10:32
(what are you going to cross-compile to?)
Redfoxmoon a new posix layer for windows
(not cygwin)
(and perl5 doesn't work there yet:-) ) 10:33
lizmat ++Redfoxmoon 10:35
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Redfoxmoon lizmat, o_O? 10:35
lizmat well, perhaps 👍 would have been clearer ? 10:36
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Redfoxmoon well it's still in pre-alpha, here midipix.org 10:38
lizmat Redfoxmoon: looking forward to being able to mention that Perl 6 runs on Windows with midipix :-) 10:41
Redfoxmoon heheh. 10:42
that depends entirely on getting it to cross compile
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Redfoxmoon I saw alpine has moarvm, so there won't be issues with musl either 10:42
which is nice.
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Redfoxmoon probably. 10:48
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brrt Redfoxmoon: one potential thing to think about is libuv 10:52
as i gather that can be a bit of work to compile on your platform
Redfoxmoon libuv ported already 10:53
well, "aggressively ported" -- it should work but not upstreamable:-)
brrt oh, impressive :-) 10:55
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Redfoxmoon I mean, I am not that proud of my libuv port github.com/lalbornoz/midipix_build...ocal.patch 10:58
heheh.
brrt i can't see that, that's presumably private 11:07
hmm. building CORE.setting isn't noticably faster with the stack walker than without :-( 11:08
within noise, i'd say 11:14
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Redfoxmoon brrt, what, the github repo is public 11:33
brrt oh, hang on, my terminal broke up the url 11:34
Redfoxmoon Hah 11:35
lizmat, well, if you're interested you could have a look at perl5 on midipix :P that way you could mention perl 6 on windows even earlier :P 11:42
Redfoxmoon hides
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samcv .tell brrt it's not per compiler really. i mean msvc just doesn't have branch predictor hints. though i think you mean just taking out code on certain platforms? 15:58
yoleaux 10:27Z <brrt> samcv: that instead of per-compiler 'likely' flags, we can use '#ifdef _MSCV_VER' and friends
samcv: I'll pass your message to brrt.
samcv ah i see
though there are other compilers other than msvc gcc and clang? 15:59
timotimo like icc
if you've got the money for it
does borland still make a c compiler?
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Redfoxmoon there's also pcc and tcc 16:17
Redfoxmoon runs
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brrt . 18:05
yoleaux 15:58Z <samcv> brrt: it's not per compiler really. i mean msvc just doesn't have branch predictor hints. though i think you mean just taking out code on certain platforms?
brrt .tell samcv I mean to create platform-specific #defines, much like we do now, except using #ifdef and friends rather than Configure.pl setting variables 18:06
yoleaux brrt: I'll pass your message to samcv.
samcv brrt: i can do that, though what file should i put them in 18:07
yoleaux 18:06Z <brrt> samcv: I mean to create platform-specific #defines, much like we do now, except using #ifdef and friends rather than Configure.pl setting variables
Redfoxmoon platform.h or config.h perhaps? :P 18:09
brrt for instance, yes 18:16
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brrt i mean, it's only a suggestion of course :-) 18:18
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Redfoxmoon Seems like good options! 18:20
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samcv i think i made MVM_serialization_read_int 18% faster 21:15
was looking at perf of perl6 -e '' and that was the top item so tried to optimize it
jnthn Wow, nice <3 21:17
A load of them are because of NFAs, but even after we stop storing those in duplicate, NFAs themselves are still a load of ints :)
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samcv got down the percentage of that function in perl6 -e '' from 4.5% to 3.79% 21:21
brrt samcv++ 21:29
ohai jnthn
jnthn o/ brrt
How goes?
brrt I'm fine, given that it is the end-of-week
can I get you to look at my PR sometime? 21:30
I kind of want to get it merged sooner rather than later
jnthn Yeah. If I find energy over the weekend I will, otherwise can next week
brrt (unfortunately, I don't have any benchmark improvmenets to show for it)
sure :-)
jnthn Probably reduced memory a little, if nothing else?
brrt code size should be reduced quite considerably, i should think 21:31
jnthn And perhaps callgrind can show a lower cycle count?
brrt but it doesn't seem to help much in wallclock
jnthn I'll be digging back in to my spesh plugin stuff next week also :) 21:32
brrt anyway, even if it doesn't have any of that, it's still a massive simplicity improvement (even if it is a bit of a risky strategy)
nice
jnthn The last weeks I was somewhat distracted with a certain other project :)
brrt you mean comma? 21:33
jnthn Indeed.
brrt i kind of want to try it, but i'm not a typical IDE user
jnthn Of note, the release engineering.
Which meant dealing with one Java build tool layered on top of another, weird Windows issues, weird OSX issues, etc. :) 21:34
timotimo icons, man. how do they ven.
even*
jnthn I know. I can't belive I lost a whole day on a problem that turned out to be "this exe file is considered invalid because the icon file in it has the wrong bit depth2 21:35
(Of course, the error didn't say that. It said "Access denied.") 21:36
brrt you know what keeps bugging me to *no end*
everybody who ever thought 'you know what my build tools need? turing complete programming languages'
also, groovy
I can't find a *single* redeeming quality to groovy
nothing whatever 21:38
jnthn I suspect you either do that or your build system consists of calling out to other turing complete languages for any sufficiently complex build 21:39
I didn't think much about groovy, even though I probably wrote it. It looked like Java with some special parse rule for a block after the arguments with a syntax that doesn't make it obviously an argument :) 21:40
hah, yes, of course I wrote it in the last week
I guess that means it was boring enough I didn't realize I wasn't writing approximately Java ;)
Anyway, I'll be most glad to return to building features and fixing bugs in Comma next week, rather than dealing with the build system. :-) 21:42
brrt i feel like groovy is a java that tried to be perlish, but never realized that perls greatest feature was its syntactical affortandces 21:44
having said that, i'm having troubles figuring out a case wherein the build itself needed to be turing complete. build tools, compilers, assemblers etc, might be written in turing-complete languages, but that is something completely different 21:45
but maybe i've never seen a complex build up close
jnthn It may be a bit of a "worse is better" thing too: in theory declarative is better, but in practice imperative languages are more familiar to more people, and using one for a build system thus makes it feel more like "normal programming". 21:46
brrt hmmm 21:47
that's a fair point
i suppose there are plenty of people who would liked to have had a loop in a makefile
samcv i think it should be fine to possible access unaligned memory given most platforms allow that. since all recent archs let you do that 21:55
and even if it were slower it's probably cheaper than calling memmem 21:56
err
memcpy
brrt i'm missing some context here 21:57
samcv i'm replacing some of the memcpy is MVM_serialization_read_int with casting a pointer to another type and copying that way 21:58
which makes it 15% faster
brrt c standards hates you now 21:59
:-P
samcv yes. well i do it in memmem32 as well though i guess i could check the alignment or something...
but the speed improvement is worth it unless there is actually a platfom that has an issue with it
jnthn Many platforms that aren't x86/x64 have problems with reading non-aligned stuff 22:04
We've had quite a few issues from assumptions in that area in the past 22:05
samcv which platforms?
jnthn At least ARM github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/issues/137 22:08
samcv The ARMv6 architecture introduced the first hardware support for unaligned accesses. ARM11 and Cortex-A/R processors can deal with unaligned accesses in hardware, removing the need for software routines.
jnthn Here's an open PR we didn't merge yet relating to alignment problems: github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/796 22:10
I'm pretty sure PowerPC needs care too 22:11
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