github.com/moarvm/moarvm | IRC logs at irclog.perlgeek.de/moarvm/today
Set by moderator on 1 August 2013.
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dalek arVM/readlineintfh2: 5efa873 | jimmy++ | 3rdparty/linenoise/linenoise.c:
added ctrl-l, clear screen support for Windows
 07:35
07:45 FROGGS joined
FROGGS o/ 07:47
dalek arVM/readlineintfh2: d4aca36 | jimmy++ | 3rdparty/linenoise/linenoise.c:
added ctrl-w, delete previous word support for Windows
 08:29
diakopter JimmyZ: on windows will you enable the traditional Ctrl-z semantics (end of stdin)? 09:00
JimmyZ diakopter: on linux doesnot support ctrl-z yet too 09:19
diakopter I don't understand that sentence 09:20
JimmyZ diakopter: linenoise doesn't support ctrl-z 09:21
diakopter: so I won't make it works on windows too.. 09:23
unless we really need it, I think
diakopter ok; I was merely curious if you had planned on it 09:24
JimmyZ fetures that moarvm is used on linux, and I make it works on windows also, it's my plan. and I think it's done now :P 09:26
diakopter I'm afraid I can't understand that sentence either. :( 09:27
JimmyZ so for now, just waiting for jnthn ...
FROGGS diakopter: he just makes features available that are support on linux by default
JimmyZ diakopter: sorry, that must be becase of my poor english ļ¼šļ¼ˆ
diakopter JimmyZ: also, I'm quite obtuse at 2:30 a.m. 09:28
FROGGS diakopter: ...that are supported by linenoise on linux be default
diakopter (unfortunately)
FROGGS by*
me
can't type either
JimmyZ diakopter: you are working hard :P
diakopter JimmyZ: or hardly working
JimmyZ hehe 09:29
FROGGS: not really, I added ctrl-r for linux too :P 09:31
FROGGS ha! gotcha!
diakopter :) 09:32
JimmyZ [root@ nqp-cc]# echo 'hello world' | nqp nqp-moar-cc.nqp test.nqp 09:40
11
hello world
[root@nqp-cc]#
no segfault
diakopter cat test.nqp
uh oh, running unstable software as root... you'll format your disk accidentally :) 09:41
JimmyZ: what's in test.nqp? 09:43
JimmyZ diakopter: gist.github.com/zhuomingliang/6119449
diakopter I guess readlineintfh removes a line break? 09:44
JimmyZ doesn't know
diakopter well if say() doesn't add another one... 09:45
JimmyZ yeah 09:47
it removes one
actually, it doesn't insert 'enter'
diakopter oh
but \\r\\n on stdin... 09:48
(end a line with ^ on windows)
JimmyZ it's easy to insert "\\n", if we want
JimmyZ didn't see a '^' on windows 09:49
diakopter ? 09:50
what do you mean "didn't see" 09:51
*sigh* troll on my grant app page is a troll
(don't anyone reply please.. he contraverted my affirmation of the value of his opinion) 09:53
arnsholt That last one is a real WTF
JimmyZ diakopter: re: but \\r\\n on stdin... (end a line with ^ on windows), I don't see there is a '^'
diakopter what do you mean you don't see?
arnsholt A badly expressed echo of chromatic's usual tirade
diakopter where don't you see it?
JimmyZ who is Carlos del Rey ? 09:54
diakopter personally, I don't have a problem with chromatic's critiques, except their style occasionally
JimmyZ diakopter: on cmd
diakopter JimmyZ: where on cmd? 09:55
just type a ^ then enter
C:\\> echo foo foo ^ENTER bar bar |more 09:57
foo foo
bar bar
arnsholt: yeah, my imagined reply would be something like this: 09:58
JimmyZ hmm, I think I have some problems with english ...
diakopter 1. When was this called Blizkost? Blizkost never wanted to handle anything more than Parrot.
2. You're a vanity VM 09:59
3. Parrot already works?
4. Perl-6 is a long farce? Just wait to see how long it can get!
JimmyZ Before a successful genius are nuts 10:00
^^ is what I want to reply :P
diakopter 5. It's not always fun to start something new. It's often quite painful and annoying, but worth it in the end. It's tough to start over because it's admitting that the work of people you care about [often yourself if it's your own work] would be best improved by starting over, because of huge fundamental problems 10:01
arnsholt While it would be kind of amusing if you made that reply, I think not troll-baiting is a good idea, yeah =)
diakopter 6. re "my money TPF is going to throw away" - you know what, you sorry excuse for a troll? It's not like I wouldn't do this work anyway if the grant was approved, so the nod from TPF would simply be "recognition" for the work, and encouragement to do more such work if it was successful. You think I'd choose to accept another gig for those hours of my time at that rate, at a 70% pay cut? The time is already worth far more to me than the rate ... 10:05
... of compensation.
er s/was/wasn't/
[he's not a very good troll]
FROGGS: yes, I was joking that I would actually reply with these points. I'm being facetious/mocking and tongue-in-cheek, partly. 10:11
[I don't actually think Carlos is a vanity VM] 10:12
I would be glad to discuss all of Carlos' points civilly on channel or telephone or in person or whatever. :) I'm quite confident that would go quite well [for everyone]. 10:15
nwc10 "Parrot works? - well, MoarVM is pretty much the implementation of the Parrot developers' own Lorito plan, only without the PIR layer on top"
diakopter I tried to discover what the Lorito plan was... but didn't get further than "reduced instruction set VM" 10:18
.. which MoarVM certainly isn't
nwc10 ah OK. then I'm confused
acutally, it sort of feels like it is
its "reduced" compared with parrot's current instruction set 10:19
tadzik hah, this guy
to me, he lost it all at "LOL"
diakopter nwc10: have you seen oplist lately? :) it's only 1/4 the count of parrot's ops because it doesn't have specializations of every op for various types of args. Instead of built into each op, the coercion of args to the ops is built into the QAST->MAST compiler, so it doesn't need the specialized editions 10:20
tadzik diakopter | [I don't actually think Carlos is a vanity VM]
'course not. His mom is.
diakopter er, s/args/operands/g 10:21
nwc10: I think of NQP's huge oplist as the analogue of the entire set of JVM's rt.jar callouts to native functions.. just in one flat namespace instead of how JVM names them 10:23
you know, several hundred native function interfaces... doing nativey things
HOWEVER :D :D :D 10:24
if *I* were making a reduced instruction set VM for dynamic languages, I would make one that didn't include function calls at all, but instead implemented function calls with lower primitives, where bytecode frames were objects that a goto op could goto into. 10:26
.. which is actually *almost* how moarvm does it, except the frame objects are not accessible in the HLL b/c they're not GC'd 10:27
.oO( someday some insane [read: one of mine] branch of moarvm repo will have all VM-internal objects accessible to HLL... )
 10:29
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JimmyZ Good evening 12:21
FROGGS hi JimmyZ 12:22
JimmyZ Hi FROGGS :P 12:32
masak greetings JimmyZ 12:52
JimmyZ \\o/ éŗ¦é«˜ 12:55
masak \\o/ 12:59
diakopter nwc10++ # excellent questions 13:35
nwc10: "Until distributions pick up MoarVM to package, people wanting to use it will have to build it from source" well, as mst said on #perl6 the other day, the idea is to have a Rakudo::MoarVM package that builds/installs the whole thing using cpan/m 13:37
nwc10: re 1., I wouldn't request a halfway mark payment 13:40
nwc10: re 2., I think it'd be good for acceptance tests to use 5.18 and .20 only.. but where I'd also be aiming for 5.8. I strongly suspect that any bugs fixed between 5.8->now would not prevent the interop from working at all, but instead might affect some small aspect of it. 13:42
the only thing that's really p5 C-heavy is the stash sync/walk thingie 13:44
the rest is baby p5/p5C
nwc10: re 3., I think what you described in this paragraph would be a great test that's pretty decisive: "Something like having a web framework running in Perl 6 accessing databases via DBIx::Class and DBI running on Perl 5? Calls from Perl 6 into methods written in Perl 5, passing callbacks to Perl 6 routines (and vice versa)." 13:46
nwc10: however, the part about inter-VM class derivation seems less certain
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masak nwc10++ # comment 14:05
I was very tempted to state for any blog comment readers that Carlos del Rey is a troll, just to provide some context. but I think I'll skip that too until further notice. 14:06
I just hope that all the "+1" comments contrast enough with his repetitive colloquialisms to show that he's not exactly worth paying attention to. 14:09
diakopter No. 3 becomes more certain when I admit the possibility of integrating with Moose/Class::MOP (and Moo and the rest) 14:18
(with new releases of those and/or plugins)
wouldn't want to try to make it work with default p5 inheritance 14:19
afk all day &
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diakopter all day was short 17:49
17:54 benabik joined
lizmat 3.5 hours, wow! 17:59
diakopter lizmat: do you agree about emphasizing/demanding moose for MOP-level interop? 18:01
lizmat Moose seems sensible to me, as that is backported to quite a few perls ago
MOP is much more recent: demanding that would perhaps cut you off from older perls ? 18:02
diakopter I just meant Class::MOP
not p5 MOP
lizmat ah, I have no idea how far back Class::MOP is supported 18:06
if it is far enough for you, then demanding it seems like a small price to pay
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moderator github.com/moarvm/moarvm | IRC logs at irclog.perlgeek.de/moarvm/today
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