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Welcome to the main channel on the development of MoarVM, a virtual machine for NQP and Rakudo (moarvm.org). This channel is being logged for historical purposes. Set by lizmat on 24 May 2021. |
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| Nicholas | Servus, #moarvm | 05:49 | |
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| nine | Morgen! | 06:13 | |
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| jnthnwrthngtn | Ahoj! | 08:58 | |
| Nicholas | jnthnwrthngtn: a friend I was with at the weekend is learning Czech using duolingo. duolingo offered the following phrase (in English and Czech): I drink beer because I am thirsty | 09:00 | |
| jnthnwrthngtn | Me too duo, me too... :) | 09:04 | |
| Nicholas | that was what we both thought. | 09:05 | |
| jnthnwrthngtn | The microbrewery I go to now and then, which usually makes reliably nice beers, recently made a mint APA. I think it's the first beer I've had in a while that I questioned not finishing. | 09:22 | |
| uh, s/questioned/considered/ | 09:23 | ||
| MasterDuke | huh. that sounds like an IPA i might actually like. you don't like mint? | 09:24 | |
| jnthnwrthngtn | I do like mint. I do like IPA/APA. | 09:27 | |
| Somehow their combination didn't work for me. Or at least, this combination didn't. | 09:28 | ||
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| nine | Lot of people like fish. Even more people like chocolate. For some reason, Zotter's fish chocolate (yes, for real) didn't take off though. | 12:18 | |
| Nicholas | Herr Zotter has some crazy ideas. There's a graveyard for them roughly here: www.google.com/maps/@46.9916884,15...a=!3m1!1e3 | 12:28 | |
| (the factory tour is fun) | |||
| MasterDuke | huh, never heard of them | ||
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| drakonis | is there any documentation for experimental rakuast and slang usage? | 19:55 | |
| highly possible this is the wrong channel | 19:57 | ||
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| drakonis | also how to write a new trait to modify moarvm behavior when dealing with recursive functions | 20:01 | |
| as it is the kind of change that needs to go on the vm | 20:02 | ||
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| [Coke] | in the rakuast branch, there's src/Raku/ast/README.md | 20:03 | |
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| jnthnwrthngtn | drakonis: If it's about supporting tailcalls, I guess places to start reading in MoarVM are github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/mast...allstack.h for stack layout and around github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/4e2e...ame.c#L455 for where stack frame creation is driven. | 20:26 | |
| drakonis | i see | ||
| jnthnwrthngtn | I suspect it'd then want to be plumbed in NQP somewhere. How exactly depends on the semantics you're shooting for. | 20:28 | |
| drakonis | hmm, looks like there's multiple ways to achieve it | 20:29 | |
| jnthnwrthngtn | Although most probably you'd need a new boot-tailcall dispatch terminal | ||
| drakonis | one where you can explicitly transform a procedure call into a tail call | ||
| ocaml.org/releases/4.14/htmlman/ta..._cons.html as seen here | |||
| as opposed to just the returning procedure call | 20:30 | ||
| the semantics seem similar to what i'd want to do | |||
| although it is still experimental | 20:31 | ||
| jnthnwrthngtn | I kinda wonder if it'd be possible, when AST is availble in traits, to avoid doing any VM stuff and just rewrite it as a loop in RakuAST | ||
| drakonis | i'm not sure whether doing that would always map correctly to recursive functions that aren't really loops | 20:32 | |
| ie: traveling a tree structure | |||
| traversing or generating trees | 20:33 | ||
| or dealing with anything deep | 20:35 | ||
| jnthnwrthngtn | Yeah, I'm not sure off hand | 20:38 | |
| Also jnthn.net/papers/2021-trc-dispatch.pdf is maybe of interest in parts (it explains how calls work) | 20:39 | ||
| Among the many semantics to figure out are if a recursive call in a multi candidate should call the proto | 20:40 | ||
| Which brings up the issue I've mentioned before, that what MoarVM thinks of as a stack frame may not be the thing you think of as a function | 20:41 | ||
| So doing this well might actually mean pealing off multiple VM level frames. I dunno where the arguments of the recursive call should be stored, although one would need to ensure the GC can find them | 20:43 | ||
| drakonis | also, loops can be implemented with recursion | 20:47 | |
| but modelling a traversal algorithm for non contiguous data structures sucks | 20:49 | ||
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| drakonis | while you're still here, i wanted to ask about multiple dispatch and constraints being used together in a similar manner to pattern matching | 20:52 | |
| guards | 20:53 | ||
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| jnthnwrthngtn | OK, what's the question? | 20:56 | |
| I mean, multiple dispatch constraints and signature unpacking can do stuff like pattern matching/destructuring. | 20:57 | ||
| drakonis | with enough patience, it should be possible to combine those together into a keyword for pattern matching, yeah? | 20:59 | |
| seems like it'd require wading in rakudo's guts for this | 21:00 | ||
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| drakonis | alternatively, the real question is whether code can be reduced to syntatic sugar | 21:01 | |
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| drakonis | ie: pattern matching being syntax sugar for the combination of multiple dispatch constraints and signature packing | 21:01 | |
| or is that still going to require rakuast to even do that? | 21:02 | ||
| syntax sugar is another kind of codegen isnt it | 21:05 | ||
| jnthnwrthngtn | I think at some point it was speculated what `when` with a signatured (pointy) block would accept if the signature matched, although that never got implemented thus far. But if you want to do syntax sugar stuff, yes, that's probably a slang + rakuast job, and it's not really at a point where one can easily do that yet | ||
| drakonis | that does dampen my excitement at the moment | 21:08 | |
| but it should be worth the wait | 21:11 | ||
| MasterDuke | if people are around and up for some thinking, any thoughts on github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/1685 or github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/1645 ? | 21:19 | |
| or github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/1470 | 21:20 | ||
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