»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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ryn1x Seems backwards to me that List is immutable and Array is not. Is this a carry-over from Perl5? 03:03
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AlexDaniel ryn1x: why is it backwards? 03:24
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Geth mu: 621d4f6adf | (Fernando Correa de Oliveira)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | misc/perl6advent-2018/schedule
Update schedule
 03:27
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ryn1x AlexDaniel: It's not acutually backwards, but because I learned Java and C++ in school I am used to an Array being immutable and List being a mutable object. Completely reversed usage of the terms. 03:32
Immutable size to be more specific 03:34
AlexDaniel so dynamic vs static 03:36
SmokeMachine Im starting writing my perl6 advent calendar post... would someone like to give me some comments? (I just started, its far from complete)
gist.github.com/FCO/33be94f5ecfab7...60efd89085 03:37
the `...` means I didn't write yet but I will
ryn1x I wonder if array is implemented with some sort of linked-list... that would confuse the terms even more ha
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ryn1x SmokeMachine: It is looking good, but I am not really familiar with ORM. Maybe a short section in the beginning on why use/advantages of Red ORM for uninformed people like me? 03:48
SmokeMachine: Is Red something that could be used instead of DBIish? 03:49
SmokeMachine ryn1x: thanks that’s a good idea!
ryn1x: no... red can use DBIish... 03:50
ryn1x ah ok. so like an OO way to interface with it?
SmokeMachine ryn1x: currently it uses BDIish for SQLite and DB::Pg for Postgres... 03:51
ryn1x: that’s more a way to map classes to tables and objects to rows... 03:52
ryn1x: github.com/FCO/Red 03:53
ryn1x SmokeMachine: Maybe like some code snippets showwing usage of DBIish/ BG:Pg on their own vs with Red? Unless that doesn't make sense... Either way I am looking forward to learning more about this from your calender post.
I just started learning/using DBIish with sqlite for a project so this may be somthing I want to use after learning about it! 03:56
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SmokeMachine :) 03:57
ryn1x: if you want, take a look into the examples dir and/or the wiki... 03:58
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AlexDaniel .tell ryn1x no, it's not implemented as linked lists, but potentially it can be depending on the compiler or backend. See also github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1726 04:47
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to ryn1x.
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Geth ecosystem: ccworld1000++ created pull request #416:
add CCChart		 08:56
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Geth doc: d5d9448af6 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Promise.pod6
Some reflow and grammar fixes
 09:00
doc: fadb13beac | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Any.pod6
Adds better example for Any.keys

Eliminates the class example, and adds pointers. Refs #1731
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Promise
Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Any
ecosystem: e720d64820 | CC++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
add CCChart

Simple draw chart for Perl 6 , easy-to-use simple learning.		 09:02
ecosystem: ac8827fe9c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Merge pull request #416 from ccworld1000/patch-2

add CCChart
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SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: do you know what was my proposal here? gist.github.com/Whateverable/d1b74...rl6-dev-md 11:22
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SmokeMachine I found that! Thanks! 11:45
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sena_kun If I have `is default` attribute, is there a way to know if its value in an instance was defined or it's there just because of default setting? 14:34
Consindering I am already using MOP and ready for magic. 14:35
timotimo you'll have to store that information in a separate (private, probably) attribute based on whether the named argument gets passed to TWEAK or BUILD, i'd think 14:36
sena_kun ah, ok. well, I'll just provide a new trait similar to `is default` that I can control. Just wanted to check if there is a neater way, checked Attribute docs without too much luck. :) 14:37
thanks anyway.
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SmokeMachine .tell jmerelo if you have some time could you please comment? (it's far from complete yet) gist.github.com/FCO/33be94f5ecfab7...etsanta-md 15:04
yoleaux SmokeMachine: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
kensanata AlexDaniel: For Oddmuse wiki, should we take Text::Markdown and try and make it CommonMark compatible and grammar-based, or should we try to reimplement from scratch? I'm not sure how much we'll be able to reuse if rewriting it to be grammar based. 15:08
SmokeMachine I was thinking of PRing a Oddmuse::Storage using Red... 15:10
timotimo github.com/hartenfels/Text-Markdown-Discount - not bad 15:11
kensanata SmokeMachine: what is Red, some sort of database? 15:12
SmokeMachine kensanata: Red is a ORM...
kensanata (I'm mostly an Oracle person.)
SmokeMachine kensanata: github.com/FCO/Red
kensanata SmokeMachine: It's hard to find on duckduckgo, for sure. :D 15:13
SmokeMachine: The GitHub page looks interesting! It does say "It's not working yet." Are you involved in Red development? I'd be happy to accept a PR! 15:14
SmokeMachine kensanata: with this query its the first result: duckduckgo.com/?q=Red+ORM+perl6&am...a=software
kensanata: Yes, Im the FCO on the url... :P 15:15
kensanata SmokeMachine: Yeah, I didn't know it was Perl 6 so I was looking for Red, Red database, and Red ORM...
SmokeMachine kensanata: I was just kidding... :P
kensanata You'd definitely get "help validating the APIs." ;) 15:16
SmokeMachine kensanata: if you are interested, please do some comments on gist.github.com/FCO/33be94f5ecfab7...etsanta-md 15:17
kensanata SmokeMachine: I'm the kind of person that would start writing code first, then think about the gap as we hit upon it... 15:18
SmokeMachine: I'm pretty sure Oddmuse::Storage would also need some work. Perhaps something like an init call to setup the database if it cannot be found, etc. And we'd probably have to switch Oddmuse::Storage to a singleton. At the moment new instances are created whenever storage is accessed. 15:20
SmokeMachine kensanata: maybe it would be easier to understand the API: github.com/FCO/Red/tree/master/examples
kensanata timotimo: I think I will add an option to switch between the two; that would make for an interesting comparison. 15:24
SmokeMachine kensanata: I was reading Oddmuse::Storage and would like to suggest a role that every delegate implementation should "does"... that would sure that <get-page put-page get-keep-page put-keep-page put-change get-changes get-current-revision lock-page unlock-page is-locked> method exist 15:25
kensanata Is there a way to express an either-or dependency in META6.json?
SmokeMachine: Good idea.
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kensanata SmokeMachine: is there a way to verify that the thing I loaded with require ::($class) actually does the role? 15:28
timotimo yeah, you can smartmatch against the role
kensanata smartmatch magic...
SmokeMachine kensanata: I was thinking on something like:
kensanata: www.irccloud.com/pastebin/lOprwVwN/ 15:29
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SmokeMachine kensanata: if Oddmuse::Storage::Delegate were the name of the role 15:30
kensanata I'll give it a try! 15:31
I wonder if we can remove the duplication of the functions. Something "delegate all the functions this role exports"?
timotimo that's specced, doesn't it work?
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SmokeMachine m: class A { has Int $.int handles /./}; say A.new(:int(42)).is-prime 15:34
camelia False
kensanata timotimo: I was just looking at the snippet posted by SmokeMachine.
timotimo m: role Delegs { method one { say "one" }; method two { say "two" } }; class Impl does Delegs { method one { say "impl one" }; }; class Test { has Impl $.foo handles Delegs .= new }; Test.new.one; Test.new.two; 15:36
camelia two
timotimo m: role Delegs { method one { say "one" }; method two { say "two" } }; class Impl does Delegs { method one { say "impl one" }; }; class Test { has Impl $.foo handles <one two> .= new }; Test.new.one; Test.new.two;
camelia impl one
two		 15:37
timotimo aaw
m: role Delegs { method one { say "one" }; method two { say "two" } }; class Impl does Delegs { method one { say "impl one" }; }; class Test { has Impl $.foo handles Delegs.^methods.map(*.name) .= new }; Test.new.one; Test.new.two;
camelia Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo m: role Delegs { method one { say "one" }; method two { say "two" } }; class Impl does Delegs { method one { say "impl one" }; }; class Test { has Impl $.foo handles (BEGIN Delegs.^methods.map(*.name)) .= new }; Test.new.one; Test.new.two;
camelia No such method 'two' for invocant of type 'Test'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo m: role Delegs { method one { say "one" }; method two { say "two" } }; class Impl does Delegs { method one { say "impl one" }; }; class Test { has Impl $.foo handles (BEGIN Delegs.^methods.map(*.name)) .= new }; say Delegs.^methods.map(*.name); Test.new.one; Test.new.two;
camelia (one two)
No such method 'two' for invocant of type 'Test'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo huh.
kensanata Isn't that correct? Impl is missing two? 15:38
timotimo yes, but why can't it "handles Delegs"?
that's supposed to work
kensanata Hm. 15:40
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kensanata SmokeMachine: So, without the snipped that timotimo suggested, I have this: github.com/kensanata/oddmuse6/comm...204a8d5e06 16:07
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SmokeMachine kensanata: why don’t you do something like this? 16:11
multi method get-page(Str $id!, Bool $is-admin --> Oddmuse::Page) {...}
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SmokeMachine On delegate 16:11
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kensanata SmokeMachine: Good point. I wasn't aware of the stub operator. :) 16:20
I want to go back to the other question: Is there a way to express an either-or dependency in META6.json, e.g. one of Text::Markdown or Text::Markdown::Discount? 16:26
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SmokeMachine kensanata: id like to know that too... 16:34
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kensanata Given a string $class = 'Text::Markdown', how do I call it's parse-markdown? I'm trying «BEGIN{require ::($class) '&parse-markdown';}» and in a sub, later: «parse-markdown($page.text).to-html;» but I'm getting "undeclared routine". (I'm trying to figure things out by looking at page 173 of Perl 6 Deep Dive... 16:59
rouking How decoupled are Rakudo and MoarVM at the moment? For example, could I compile to MVM bytecode and have that run fine on a system without Rakudo? 17:00
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moritz rouking: no, because things like EVAL require the full compiler 17:02
rouking: but, you can run Perl 6 code without MoarVM by using one of the other backends
in unrelated matters: lol, I blogged: perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/2018-pe...akers.html
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rouking Hmm, yeah, I was thinking EVAL might be a problem. Is it possible if the code doesn't use EVAL? 17:04
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rouking or does it depend on Rakudo just because EVAL might show up 17:04
jnthn Rakudo isn't just the compiler, but also an implementation of the Perl 6 standard library. In suspect the standard library accounts for more of the code size than the compiler part. 17:06
yoleaux 13:17Z <SmokeMachine> jnthn: I’m sorry, I know that was a long time ago... but had you thought about this? colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_lo...-11-29#l94
jnthn *I suspect
rouking And I guess the code for the standard library doesn't get pumped out every single time you compile a program to Moar bytecode? 17:07
jnthn No. It's like 14MB or so. 17:09
kensanata To answer my own question, the following works for me: my $parser = BEGIN { my $class = 'Text::Markdown'; require ::($class); ::($class); } $parser.new('text').render;
jnthn Plus 500 KB of metamodel
The compiler comes out as < 7 MB, by contrast. So less than half the size of the standard library
rouking At some point, it would be nice to be able to compile a standalone binary with MoarVM thrown in 17:10
jnthn Yeah; it's currently hard to make that work out because Rakudo contains a small number of C parts, but we're slowly getting rid of them. Once that happens, that task should be a good it more tractable. 17:11
*good bit
rouking I was actually trying to convince someone to use Cro :P they needed a way to do websockets with good a good concurrency model
with a good*
jnthn Ah yeah, Supplies map quite neatly onto those :)
rouking But they also want their software to ship standalone and statically linked 17:12
btw, I see that Moar has a bunch of forks of its deps in the repo; does that mean it's statically linked to those?
Even if it isn't, I suppose it would be a simple matter to change some compiler flags and make that the case 17:13
jnthn Yes, I believe so, with the exception of those that are only build-time. However, there's command line options for those building packages to have a MoarVM linked agaisnt packaged deps.
rouking Ah, well that's good to hear 17:14
jnthn But if you build a MoarVM from source I think the libuv, libdyncall, etc. all go in as static linking
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kensanata How can I check whether a module can be loaded? Something better than EVAL { require ::("Foo::Bar") } 17:29
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moritz why EVAL? try require ::("Foo::Bar") 17:32
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kensanata moritz: sorry for skipping the actual goal. I want to run a test only if Foo::Bar is installed. So now I'm trying to find a way to write that test. 17:33
So now I'm looking at p6doc Language/testing and trying to think of a way to make this happen. :) 17:34
D'Oh. Found try { }. 17:38
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Xliff SmokeMachine: It's not bad, but a few spelling errors. 18:25
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SmokeMachine Xliff: thanks! I’ll fix that! 18:42
Xliff SmokeMachine: If you want, I can proof it for you when you finish. 18:43
I don't mind giving it a once over and making suggestions.
SmokeMachine Xliff: thank you very much... 18:45
Xliff No problem! 18:47
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Geth rakudo.org: 73574c4ecb | (Steve Mynott)++ | post/announce-rakudo-star-release-2018-10.md
Add announcement for 2018.10 release
 18:54
rakudo.org: 2bfb9e1545 | (Steve Mynott)++ | templates/files.html.ep
bump star to 2018.10
 18:58
stmuk_ a watched cron never runs! 18:59
Geth perl6.org: 3b167acb44 | (Steve Mynott)++ | source/downloads/index.html
bump star to 2018.10
 19:01
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Xliff Why do I get this 'Cannot modify an immutable 'GTK::Compat::Types::GdkVisual' type object' when attempting to set an is rw member of a repr('CStruct')? 19:06
lizmat Xliff: could you try doing an nqp::iscont() on that attribute? If it's 0, that's the reason 19:07
Xliff lizmat: Yes, it is 0. Why is this? 19:10
lizmat *that* I don't know 19:11
but I guess the meaning of "is rw" is slightly different from normal in a repr(CStruct)
doesn't it mean it's supposed to be a pointer??
Xliff I thought that was in a nativecall sub definition. 19:12
So how can I set it? Write an accessor?
(bet it does the same thing)
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moritz weekly: perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/2018-pe...akers.html 19:27
notable6 moritz, Noted!
moritz weekly: rakudo.org/post/announce-rakudo-st...se-2018-10 19:28
notable6 moritz, Noted!
El_Che lizmat, stmuk, moritz: I wonder if it needs to be announced that this Rakudo Star is the last one. 19:29
lizmat El_Che: why would it be the last one ?
El_Che lizmat: because stmuk is not creating more 19:30
moritz I hope somebody else does 19:31
El_Che moritz: yes, sorry, that's what I meant
if it needs be announce as part of a search of a new mantainer
lizmat yes, I will mention it in the P6W 19:32
El_Che lizmat: check with him, maybe
lizmat have you seen twitter.com/steve_mynott/status/10...1866937345 ?
oops, wrong link
github.com/rakudo/star/issues/124
El_Che lizmat: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_lo...11-07#l793 19:33
lizmat: ok, the ticket is pretty clear 19:34
lizmat yeah, stmuk++
weekly: github.com/rakudo/star/issues/124 19:35
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
lizmat
.oO( feels like it is going to take me a week to make a P6W
 19:36
)
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El_Che lizmat: you can write about your self this time :) 19:38
Geth docker: jstuder-gh++ created pull request #19:
Update default Rakudo Star version to 2018.10		 19:39
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Geth docker: 960c26271c | (Jeremy Studer)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | Dockerfile
Update default Rakudo Star version to 2018.10 (#19)
 19:45
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masak m: grammar G { token TOP { <foo> }; proto token foo { <bar> {*} }; token bar { "bar" } } 21:55
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Proto regex body must be {*} (or <*> or <...>, which are deprecated)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3ar G { token TOP { <foo> }; proto token 7⏏5foo { <bar> {*} }; token bar { "bar" } }
masak heh -- just had a use for the above `<bar> {*}` construction (which S05 says should work), but apparently it's not supported
guess I'll just have to add another layer of indirec^Wtoken 21:56
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thundergnat Pretty cool IMO, as of today Perl 6 has 1000 entries on Rosettacode, and is tied for 3rd on the leader board. rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code/R.../Full_list 22:16
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lizmat weekly: rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code/R.../Full_list 22:21
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
lizmat sleep& 22:23
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jdv79 is there a way to bind directly to an attr via a method call with a positional arg? 23:56

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