»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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lookatme_q :) 01:11
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jmerelo releasable6: status 05:49
releasable6 jmerelo, Next release will happen when it's ready. 6 blockers. 262 out of 315 commits logged
jmerelo, Details: gist.github.com/903862d8b069c697c3...59e6ba6c50
Geth ecosystem: 5dacf34c19 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Trims spaces

Since there seemed to be a problem		 05:56
ecosystem: 213a65595d | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Merge pull request #436 from perl6/JJ-patch-2

Trims spaces
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rindolf m: my $x=2¹² ; say $x 08:47
camelia 4096
rindolf heh
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masak I know people are all gushy over the 2¹² feature. maybe I'm alone in never taking to it. :) 09:44
it's not so much an "everything should be ASCII" sentiment, I think -- it's more like, did we really need this other way to write `2 ** 12`? feels like just another thing that linting tools will have to go in and make consistent... 09:46
the `**` operator has a long history. is it all the way back to FORTRAN?
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masak hm, seems so. or, at least, Fortran is the oldest language that has it. 09:47
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Geth ecosystem/JJ-patch-3: e1024d395d | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Adds Test::Script::Output to the ecosystem

Also a test...		 09:59
ecosystem: JJ++ created pull request #437:
Adds Test::Script::Output to the ecosystem		 10:00
ecosystem: e1024d395d | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Adds Test::Script::Output to the ecosystem

Also a test...		 10:06
ecosystem: 96c9e59711 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Merge pull request #437 from perl6/JJ-patch-3

Adds Test::Script::Output to the ecosystem
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pmurias masak: re 2² that feature doesn't seem to be of any benefit to me 10:34
masak: s/any/significant/ 10:35
lizmat masak: you could also argue that the ** operator is one of the oldest examples of Stockholm Syndrome in programming languages 10:36
lizmat learned programming in Tutor: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUTOR_(progr...ion_syntax 10:38
nothing strange with 2¹² there
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lizmat it's just that it's gotten harder to type (the PLATO keyboard had dedicated keys for SUB and SUPER) 10:39
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masak lizmat: I'm not enthralled with the "Stockholm Syndrome" analogy in general. it seems to be used by people who just want to say "you've gotten used to the feature so you don't see that it's actually bad" 10:57
the actual incident in Stockholm involved a bank robbery with hostages, and I find the comparison tenuous at best 10:58
lizmat ok, fair enough
masak I get the selling point about 2¹²
lizmat let me rephrase that then: you've gotten used to the feature so you don't see that it's actually bad
masak :)
I don't see that it's actually bad, and I'd go further and argue that an operator there is actually good 10:59
I grew up with `^` doing that in BASIC, but `**` is fine too, and the operator has a long history with that spelling in many languages
I've even sometimes explained it to myself, in my internal dialogue, as "multiplication, only doubly do" :) 11:00
so I think it's well-motivated
one of the things I ended up _not_ liking about BASIC is that many things, even simple things, had their own specialized syntax. stuff like `LINE (x1,y1)-(x2,y2)`. as I moved on to other languages, that specialized syntax felt excessive. 11:01
I guess 2¹² reminds me a little of that excessiveness.
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masak like, what's so special about exponentiation that it gets not just an operator, but a whole *separate way of writing it* 11:01
lizmat ask mathematicians 11:02
pmurias isn't 2¹² actually a bad example of how the operator is used
masak and that separate way of writing it doesn't even generalize to non-literal values
lizmat they're the ones whi invented it
*who
masak lizmat: I don't find that a compelling argument to adopt a feature ;)
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masak lizmat: "we don't know why this feature is like that, but mathematicians do it that way" 11:03
jkramer Didn't rakudo have it's own website? Currently there's some community server thing at rakudo.org/
pmurias I assume $a² and $b³ are more representative examples, as I can't imagined exponentating to literals > than 10 to be a common thing 11:04
lizmat ask jnthn, he's in charge of that domain now :-)
jkramer Nvm, I just wanted to know what the latest release was :)
masak pmurias: good point
lizmat 2018.10 for Star, 2018.12 for compiler
pmurias masak: if I remember correctly we even had someone arguing that we shouldn't support multi digits suerscripts 11:05
lizmat afk& 11:06
masak pmurias: I can certainly see that argument (though I don't think I made it)
pmurias * superscripts
masak pmurias: but I can also easily see the other argument, that once we set down this path, it's Least Surprise to suport multi-digit
(even though, like you say, the returns diminish quickly with more digits) 11:07
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pmurias masak: on the other hand the features fits well into the Perlish "Perfection is achieved when there is nothing more to add" philosophy 15:26
tadzik :
P
see, I added a newline even
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melezhik Hi! How to convert string into regexps? 17:09
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melezhik say I have regexp representation through string 17:09
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melezhik my $a = '\d \s "hello:" \d'; 17:10
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melezhik and I like to use it as regexp 17:11
"hello" ~~ /$a/
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melezhik the issue is that some regexps are not handled properly through this straight forward way 17:11
m: $a = 'foo: \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /$a/; 17:12
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$a' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3<BOL>7⏏5$a = 'foo: \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /
SmokeMachine m: my $a = Q[\w ** 3]; say " abc" ~~ /<$a>/
camelia ｢abc｣
melezhik m: my $a = 'foo: \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /$a/;
camelia Nil
melezhik compare with
SmokeMachine m: my $a = 'foo: \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /<$a>/
camelia Nil
melezhik m: say "foo: bar" ~~ /"foo:" \s bar /; 17:13
camelia ｢foo: bar｣
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melezhik m: my $a = '"foo:" \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /$a/; 17:13
camelia Nil
SmokeMachine m: my $a = '"foo:" \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /<$a>/ 17:14
camelia ｢foo: bar｣
melezhik so that's the problem
SmokeMachine melezhik: ":" is a special char... should have a \ or be inside of a ""
melezhik but why it works just fine with 17:15
m: say "foo: bar" ~~ /"foo:" \s bar /;
camelia ｢foo: bar｣
melezhik ?
SmokeMachine its inside of a " "
melezhik so do I when use regexp as is
SmokeMachine m: say "foo: bar" ~~ /"foo:" \s bar /;
camelia ｢foo: bar｣
melezhik but that does not work with interpolation
SmokeMachine m: say "foo: bar" ~~ /foo: \s bar /;
camelia Nil
SmokeMachine m: say "foo: bar" ~~ /foo\: \s bar /;
camelia ｢foo: bar｣
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SmokeMachine melezhik: ^ ^ 17:16
melezhik SmokeMachine: sure. if you please write interpolation equivalent ?
m: my $a = 'foo\: \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /$a/; 17:17
camelia Nil
melezhik m: my $a = 'foo\: \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /<$a>/;
SmokeMachine m: my $a = 'foo\: \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /<$a>/;
camelia ｢foo: bar｣
melezhik looks like only implicit EVAL works
however I am reading about warning on use in this mode 17:18
docs.perl6.org/language/traps#%3C%...licit_EVAL
m: my $a = '"foo:" \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /<$a>/;
camelia ｢foo: bar｣
melezhik m: my $a = '"foo:" \s+ bar'; say "foo: bar" ~~ /$($a)/; 17:19
camelia Nil
avuserow it depends on if you want to use the string in $a as a regex or as a value to match 17:20
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avuserow you want implicit EVAL <$a> in the first case 17:21
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melezhik avuserov: as a regex 17:25
avuserow: as a regex 17:26
avuserow then use it is <$a> 17:27
melezhik yeah, I guessed that 17:28
jmerelo So, does anyone care if we do a documentation hackathon this weekend instead of "Most wanted modules" hackathon?
squashable6: status 17:29
squashable6 jmerelo, ⚠🍕 Next SQUASHathon in 3 days and ≈18 hours (2019-03-02 UTC-14⌁UTC+12). See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
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jmerelo It would basically be this issue: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2632 17:30
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Geth doc: 18de3c64f7 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Match.pod6
Adds method definition for clone refs #2627
 17:53
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Match
doc: 22a1cb51cb | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod6
Adds method definition for clone and an example #2627
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Mu
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jmerelo squashable6: status 18:23
squashable6 jmerelo, The date for the next SQUASHathon is not set
jmerelo squashable6: status
squashable6 jmerelo, The date for the next SQUASHathon is not set
jmerelo squashable6: status 18:24
squashable6 jmerelo, The date for the next SQUASHathon is not set
jmerelo squashable6: status
squashable6 jmerelo, The date for the next SQUASHathon is not set
jmerelo squashable6: status 18:26
squashable6 jmerelo, The date for the next SQUASHathon is not set
jmerelo squashable6: status 18:27
squashable6 jmerelo, The date for the next SQUASHathon is not set
jmerelo .tell AlexDaniel I broke squashable again
yoleaux jmerelo: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
AlexDaniel .
yoleaux 18:27Z <jmerelo> AlexDaniel: I broke squashable again
jmerelo Hi, AlexDaniel 18:28
AlexDaniel: it might be it's just slow to take up the new version. Date seems fine, and the same format as before...
AlexDaniel no it fetches the page fresh every time
jmerelo squashable6: status 18:29
squashable6 jmerelo, ⚠🍕 Next SQUASHathon in 3 days and ≈17 hours (2019-03-02 UTC-14⌁UTC+12). See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
jmerelo OK, it works now :-)
Apparently not every CDN had the new version.
AlexDaniel ahhh that could be it
jmerelo What do you think? 18:35
I just found this and I think it's a good single topic for a Hackathon
at least get it started. We just didn't realize that 6.d needed also a 6.d documentation release. I basically ignore what's the state of that right now. Most of the "deprecated" things are done, but I have no idea about the rest. 18:36
Many might have been done already, but we need to really check. I mean, in general documentation should be more in sync with the rest of the releases.
We should also start to do this from now on with the rest of the releases. It's been done so far a bit haphazardly, if at all. 18:37
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jmerelo BTW, I'm starting to feel needles and pins re: Google Summer of Code in the next 36 hours. 18:40
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AlexDaniel jmerelo: maybe github.com/perl6/problem-solving/p...-467075602 18:53
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jmerelo AlexDaniel: do I edit the PR to add myself? Comment on the PR? 19:08
AlexDaniel jmerelo: just write a comment
jmerelo AlexDaniel: OK, done. Also added as a review comment.
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jmerelo Perl accepted as a Summer of Code organization!!!!!! 19:12
timotimo \o/
tadzik awesome!
AlexDaniel omg awesome \o/ 19:13
jmerelo: is there a link?
tadzik yeah, I'm looking too
jmerelo AlexDaniel: to be sure, I don't know if I should have made this public...
tadzik summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/ :(
AlexDaniel :X
tadzik ok shhh then :P
jmerelo Anyway, the list will be published in a while...
AlexDaniel well, we haven't heard anything 19:14
so no worries
jmerelo It's going to be published at 20:00 UTC, that's like 24 hours from now.
Anyway, that's good news. 19:16
sena_kun jmerelo++ # a really great work
jmerelo We can still add ideas to the repo: github.com/perl-gsoc-2019/ideas Add as many as possible, so that they can attract students. There are quite a few, and most are perl6 related 19:17
sena_kun: thanks!
AlexDaniel jmerelo: btw I'm hoping that it will be possible to pick issues from the problem-solving repo next year
jmerelo AlexDaniel: you mean for the hackathon? 19:18
AlexDaniel: BTW, great work here. We do need a bit of governance in this world.
AlexDaniel jmerelo: for gsoc
jmerelo AlexDaniel: not this year?
AlexDaniel jmerelo: hmmm… unlikely, but we'll see how it goes 19:19
jmerelo AlexDaniel: you know you have to apply every single year, and you might get it... or not.
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jmerelo So don't leave for later what you can do now... Just add anything you might think of to the ideas repo. 19:20
AlexDaniel jmerelo: but it is meant to be used for sizeable problems (so suitable for gsoc) and assignee ≈ mentor, so some infrastructure will be there
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AlexDaniel jmerelo: also it's unclear because people are somewhat reluctant to comment on it, hmm… 19:21
jmerelo AlexDaniel: we do need something like that. Do-ocracy does not work at scale. 19:22
AlexDaniel ⚠ Please leave feedback on github.com/perl6/problem-solving/pull/2 ⚠ 19:23
you, you, you and you :)
jmerelo: as for modules, I was hoping that someone who already had their feet in that stuff will pick it up. Maybe ugexe or niner 19:25
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I don't have my feet, but I literally have issues. A lot of them. 19:26
AlexDaniel jmerelo: not that you or somebody else can't take it
jmerelo AlexDaniel: my point is that somebody _else_ should get into that. If there's no other volunteering, I could gladly take it. Jonathan Stowe would be also a great candidate. 19:28
AlexDaniel mmm
there's also tony-o with 72 commits to zef 19:29
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cfa 👋🏽 19:31
jmerelo hi, cfa !
cfa hey jmerelo!
so, i'm a bit baffled by this:
m: say ">>a<<"; say 'foo bar baz'.split: /\s+/; # fine 19:32
camelia >>a<<
(foo bar baz)
cfa m: my $a = 'a'; say ">>$a<<"; say 'foo bar baz'.split: /\s+/; # wat
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\s'
at <tmp>:1
------> 3ay ">>$a<<"; say 'foo bar baz'.split: /\7⏏5s+/; # wat
expecting any of:
double quotes
postfix
she…
cfa at the very least, seems trappy
what am i missing though? 19:33
bisectable6_: my $a = 'a'; say ">>$a<<"; say 'foo bar baz'.split: /\s+/; 19:34
bisectable6_ cfa, Bisecting by output (old=2015.12 new=e68e38e) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
jmerelo cfa: or buggy?
cfa jmerelo: right
jmerelo: basically i have no idea :) 19:35
bisectable6_ cfa, bisect log: gist.github.com/782051eac3a1f41bd6...26babd6e8e
cfa, (2017-08-31) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ed...6efd70a4b2
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AlexDaniel c: 2017.06,HEAD my $a = 'a'; say ">>$a<<"; say 'foo bar baz'.split: /\s+/; 19:35
committable6 AlexDaniel, gist.github.com/0f94e50cc9e1d1a02f...9910ede51a
AlexDaniel ?
cfa old here has: Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"'
which is at least clearer 19:36
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cfa but i don't see why the literal vs. interpolated string should make a difference 19:37
AlexDaniel cfa: it attempts to parse it as $a<foo> ?
m: my $a = foo => 42; say "$a<foo>"
camelia 42
AlexDaniel m: my $a = foo => 42; say "$a<<foo>>" 19:38
camelia 42
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AlexDaniel so because you didn't close that, it kept going 19:38
cfa aha!
thanks, i completely missed that
AlexDaniel++ 19:39
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cfa one for the traps page, perhaps? 19:40
perhaps this is just a thinko on my part though
i think we can agree that the error is lta though? 19:41
AlexDaniel cfa: yeah it's lta 19:42
cfa: and there are even simpler cases when this happens
like
m: say “hello world’; my $x = 42; say $x
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$x' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say “hello world’; my 7⏏5$x = 42; say $x
AlexDaniel it should definitely say that it was parsing a string at that moment 19:43
SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: what’s the intention of the problem solving repo?
cfa AlexDaniel: yeah
AlexDaniel SmokeMachine: do I understand it correctly that I didn't make the intention clear enough here? github.com/perl6/problem-solving/b.../README.md 19:44
if so then that needs to be fixed, I guess… 19:45
SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: sorry, it was empty when I was looking... thanks! 19:46
AlexDaniel SmokeMachine: ah, right now it is empty, yeah, but once we agree on that PR that will change of course 19:47
guifa I seem to be having some trouble using the %?RESOURCES compile-time variable but debugging it doesn’t seem to do much. I have some say “foo” lines around where I access it but nothing prints to the terminal. Any ideas on how to debug easily? 19:48
sena_kun guifa, try "put" 19:51
instead of "say"
guifa bashes keyboard over head 19:52
I swear that stupid META6.json file is going to be the death of me
guifa forgot to include one of the files =\
like a pm6 file lol
sena_kun guifa, ah, also, `note`
cfa note doesn't use the gist? 19:53
sena_kun it doesn't matter
there is a bug with precomp
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2592 <-
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lgtaube top 19:55
tbrowder .tell lizmat josh merged my PR...back working on blog... 19:56
yoleaux tbrowder: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
guifa Okay, now that I fixed the meta file… the install process seems to be placing the resources one directory higher up in the hierarchy. I have the resources folder in the same directory as META6.json and t/ folder, but it seems to be assume that the resources folder is the parent directory of all that 19:57
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guifa I think I’m getting some lag between changes and new compiled versions. Because now it’s referencing resources/resources lol 19:58
err no not that either actually. /me apologizing for thinking outloud 19:59
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guifa imgur.com/a/SzZFRF0 <— that’s the error I’m getting but not sure how to force the BCP47 directory into the %?RESOURCES path 20:13
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sena_kun guifa, I cannot see your code, but 1)why do you want to use %?RESOURCES in the first place? 20:22
guifa sena_kun the offending reference in the code is just %?RESOURCES<languages.bcp47data>.slurp.lines
I mean, I guess I could put the data files inside of the same directory as the module, but I was trying to stay in line with the general module format of putting data files in the resources folder 20:23
sena_kun to use it, you need to 1)have a 'resources' directory in your module's root; 2)mention all resource files in META, see e.g. github.com/croservices/cro/blob/ma...6.json#L36 3)then it can be used e.g. github.com/croservices/cro/blob/40...eb.pm6#L45 <- like this 20:24
guifa I had had the data in the code before, but am moving to just loading it on a BEGIN block 20:25
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sena_kun hmm, I wonder if the path on your screenshot exists. 20:25
cfa hmm, more surprises: 20:26
guifa The Applications/resources? nope — it shouldn’t though, that’s outside of my project directory
cfa m: my %c = foo => 'bar'; say %c<foo>; say %c<<foo>>; say %c«foo»; # ok 20:27
camelia bar
bar
bar
cfa m: my %c = foo => 'bar'; say "%c<foo>"; say "%c<<foo>>"; say "%c«foo»"; # o...h
camelia bar
bar
%c«foo»
sena_kun guifa, well, what do you have in "resources" section of your META file?
guifa “resources” : [“languages.bcp47data” … ] 20:28
I tried manually adding “BCP47/resources/“ in the file name, but that just had it try to access Applications/resources/BCP47/resources/languages.bcp47data 20:29
sena_kun and you are referring to it as %?RESOURCES<languages.bcp47data>?
guifa Yeah
sena_kun odd
do you have last changes in the repo?
I'd play with it locally. 20:30
timotimo does the rakudo module debug variable spit out anything regarding resources?
guifa Just that it aborts due to a test failure in some Zeif::Client precompile code. 20:31
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guifa github.com/alabamenhu/BCP47/tree/resource-error 20:36
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sena_kun guifa, it actually works for me. 20:44
but the code that processes the file gives a warning, but that's another question. 20:45
I am on linux though.
guifa Yeah not surprising about other warnings — I’m still very much in the middle of the refactoring
sena_kun I guess. 20:46
guifa Are you just using ‘zef install ./ —force-install’ in the BCP47 directory?
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sena_kun I think the issue is with $4 usage when it is optional 20:46
I do. 20:47
or, rather, I am doing 'BCP47 git:(resource-error) ✗ zef --dry install .`.
guifa, just installed fine for me.
using your branch and with `zef install ./ --force-install` 20:48
guifa so weird 20:49
the $4 thing is because I updated the reading side of things without having updated the writing side :P 20:50
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sena_kun I guess. 20:50
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guifa This is so weird. If I throw do things in the INIT phaser, there’s no error. But consistently the install gives me errors using BEGIN 21:41
lizmat And another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: p6weekly.wordpress.com/2019/02/25/...scalaring/ 21:43
guifa lizmat: you’re on a Mac, right? 21:45
lizmat guifa: yes
guifa Could you see if you’re able to install github.com/alabamenhu/BCP47/tree/resource-error from a local directory or if it bombs on the resources? Trying to narrow down the cause, since sena_kun had it install no problem, but he’s on Linux. 21:48
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lizmat guifa: installs ok on MacOS afaics, but generates a lot of warnings: 21:58
Use of Nil in string context, Intl::BCP47::Subtag-Registry) line 16
guifa Yeah warnings were expected for that upload
Arg, so something is causing my particular system to not get the correct path in the BEGIN and CHECK phaser, but correctly set it on the INIT 21:59
I guess in the meantime I can just develop with INIT and then change it to BEGIN since it seems to work for everyone and their mother … except me hahaha
lizmat better like that than the other way around... 22:00
afk&
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