klebs it is also possible to just write rules and tokens in a set of roles and then just compose sets of roles with "does" 00:03
so, in other words, you can have a file in your repository that looks like this: ```raku 00:07
our class Handler {
has $.exception-declaration is required;
has $.compound-statement is required;
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so that's basically a little piece of a fuller grammar 00:07
all in one file
then you can have a number of these files 00:08
maybe this one is called, for example gcpp-try.rakumod
maybe this one is called, for example `gcpp-try.rakumod` 00:09
so then you can have another file `gcpp-actions.rakumod` which has `Cpp::Actions`
and `Cpp::Actions does Try::Actions does If::Actions does StringLiteral::Actions does etc etc etc {}`
same thing with `Cpp::Rules does Try::Rules does If::Rules does StringLiteral::Rules does etc etc etc {}` 00:11
but Cpp::Actions and Cpp::Rules are both roles... well at least Cpp::Rules is. Cpp::Actions can be a class if you dont want any further customization
then, at the top, you can have a `grammar Cpp::Grammar does Cpp::Rules { rule TOP { ... } }` as well as a `class Cpp::Grammar::Actions does Cpp::Actions {} ` 00:13
that's the strategy i use when the grammars are complex
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it might get a bit more complicated if you wanted to fit two grammars into one -- then you could follow that article 00:15
you could, also imo gate access to a grammar subtree with a dynamic variable 00:16
so in other words, when you detect that you are at a certain place in the tree, you can set a dynamic variable before accessing a toplevel rule for that subtree, which is gated by that dynamic variable 00:17
ie, with <?{$*MY-GATE}> 00:21
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stevied yeah, i'm going to need a firmer conceptual map of how raku works before I can piece all that together. 03:05
by the time I'm done parsing out some of the syntax and looking at it, I lost sight of what I'm trying to figure out in the first place 03:07
by the time I'm done parsing out some of the syntax and looking at it, I lose sight of what I'm trying to figure out in the first place
klebs i made this scrape -- hope it helps! 06:09
i read it all over a week or two before starting to write any raku and it helped immensely! 06:11
couldnt remember everything right away of course, but it was great to get a sense of what the language could actually do
highly recommend!
(excuse the first page, which isnt useful) 06:13
looking back at it, my explanation is a bit verbose -- basically, i am describing a way of breaking down a large grammar into many smaller roles which can be composed together, mixed and matched, etc. it makes it possible to model full languages, etc. useful for really anything you might encounter 06:15
stevied nice, i'll def check it out 06:17
klebs np! enjoy!
stevied looks like it's in html format, is there a link? 06:18
klebs oh, yea that's just the first page
it is literally just a formatted scrape of all the pod files in the raku-doc repository 06:19
so that it can be printed
stevied rest is pod
klebs for me, it made it easier to understand as a unit
yeah pretty much
there might be some odd formatting blips like that, but the information is more or less all there
stevied can you post a text doc that I can covert?
klebs github.com/Raku/doc/tree/master/doc 06:21
stevied so is that the same documentation on the website?
klebs i think so yes
i think it is the source for the website
not totally sure how/when it is managed/synced 06:22
so that pdf is basically a giant scrape of the website content as pod 06:23
stevied oh, i missed the part where you said you "made this scrape"
klebs it was done by just catting together all the pod files in that directory, running it through vim for the syntax highlighting, printing to xhtml and converting to pdf
stevied yeah, i've been going over the online documentation quite a bit
klebs i thought it was nice to be able to print it, go offline, carry it around, mark it up, etc while i initially learned
that way i wouldnt consume it piece by piece online
but could actually get it in one shot 06:24
stevied what explanation were you referring to, then?
klebs what do you mean?
stevied you said looking back you think your explanation was too long 06:25
klebs oh, i meant what i was describing about the grammars/roles etc above
the explanation before i sent the pdf link
i was describing how to decompose a large grammar into a set of roles
stevied ok, gotcha. i thought you were sending me a basic overview of how raku works
klebs yea, that is the pdf! 06:26
that will describe pretty much everything
stevied heh, well, I wouldn't call that basic
klebs like learning to swim by jumping in the deep end! 06:27
it was actually pretty helpful to just hit the docs all in one shot right at the beginning
i dont remember everything from them
but i have this feeling in my mind when something should be possible
stevied that works for some who operate in a different symbolic plane than most mortals
klebs now i just started thinking in unicode
"different symbolic plane" 🤣
stevied but yeah, it's good to at least know what's out there even if you don't understand it right away
a "known unknown" 06:28
klebs exactly
stevied my method is a little different
i start at the shallow end
then I get scared and wander back to the ankle deep water 06:29
then I get brave and wade out a few more feet, get scared, then come back. repeat forever.
klebs it is a good way haha 06:30
need one of those floating foam things
stevied eventually, I'm swimming, but usually just because I'm flailing my arms around like a nut
klebs with raku, there are so many pieces which can make your life much easier a bit farther out 06:32
stevied yeah, I definitely get that sense.
then I come back and use perl and php and I'm like, this is so damn easy. 06:33
but tedios
but tedious
klebs raku is like a meta language in some respects
im at the point where i wouldnt even attempt a thing in another language because i have raku
when i say meta langauge im referring to how grammars, rules, regexes are so well thought out and integrated into the core 06:34
stevied yeah, I get that. but I gotta use it a lot and basically rewire my brain to think like that
klebs one great way is to translate something from one language into another with raku
and then never repeat steps, so write raku functions for everything you find yourself repeating 06:35
eventually u just get so fast doing taht
stevied i've been writing my new scripts in raku (but not bash scripts, too slow)
klebs me too
i have basically completely dropped bash, python, awk, perl, etc etc for raku 06:36
stevied i wrote a couple of raku modules in my first week or two. Nothing fancy. but I impressed myself
you write bash scripts with raku?
klebs yep, everything in the shell
i have consolidated everything to raku and rust
stevied the start up time is too slow for me with raku. 06:37
klebs those two languages are like a perfect pair in some ways
stevied probably a way around it but I don't know it
klebs yeah, i feel that too
it would be nice if it was blazing fast
right now it is like a super utility to me
stevied i'm sure it'll get there eventually 06:38
klebs if i need to deploy something or want it fast/safe i just use rust
but raku for everything else
raku is the glue
stevied yeah, rust is getting into linux core now
like a replacement for c I guess, in some cases
klebs i think it does that job well
replacing c/c++
stevied when I become a real programmer I'll check it out 06:40
klebs when is that? 😁
stevied i just don't have any real need to do any low level stuff
hopefully within a couple more years. I decided to get serious about it a few years ago
always just been a dabbler for the most part
klebs what do you like to use it for? 06:42
programs, that is
programs (and programming languages), that is
stevied knew enough to hack someone else's php code or javascript or write bad spaghetti code in perl, but that was about it
what do I use raku for? major think I'm working on right now is processing my markdown files that I publish
building a hyper efficient system for writing and shareing notes in a wiki: climatechangechat.com 06:44
raku will be my glue language for this project
klebs sounds like a good use case for raku! it is the best for anything with text!
stevied climatechangechat.com/raku-program...guage.html
yeah, so far I'm liking it. just a lot of work to get proficient with it.
klebs nice! i subscribed to your youtube
stevied just started using Comma IDE which I determine is a must have. 06:45
thanks! yeah, I had to stop doing those for a bit. too much stuff going on but I plan to start it up again. on hiatus for at least a couple more months 06:46
what kind of stuff do you write? 06:47
klebs writing some compilers/transpilers 06:49
so i do the parsing layers in raku
stevied yeah, you're hard core 06:50
klebs i just love it haha
stevied grammars were totally foreign to me because I never had to write anything like a parser before
klebs i used raku to translate a synthesizer from c++ to rust
stevied but I do enjoy processing text for whatever reason
klebs then i started using raku to read back the rust program
so i started to feel like raku could be used to read programs
stevied yeah, that kind of stuff is nuts
klebs break them down into their constituent parts, to fully understand the components 06:51
and then rearrange them to suit new tasks
so that started to turn into a compiler system
grammars were totally foreign to me when i first saw them too 06:52
and then i realized they solve this problem i had all the time anyway
in some way everything is parsing
stevied I've read enough about compiling to know it's ridiculously complicated
squeezing out efficiences and that kind of thing
klebs it can teach so much about how to write better programs and do more with the machine
stevied yeah, I can imagine 06:53
klebs first it has to understand the structure of the programs it encounters
stevied I get the big picture, but almost no details
klebs but then, all of this information gets built in which reflects more specific knowledge about how each architecture/target works 06:54
stevied i can imagine once you learn that, everything else is just child's play
my kid just started freshman year in college. I'm jealous
computer science
klebs haha wow freshman year of college -- i'd run it back 🙂 06:55
stevied yeah, he seems to enjoy it, but not the calculus courses. 06:56
alright, 3am here. gotta head off to bed. thanks for the chat. catch you later 06:58
klebs night!
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zacts what's a good text or resource to learn how to program raku for a complete beginner thru advanced? 14:19
lizmat www.reddit.com/r/rakulang/comments...ning_raku/ lists a few 14:28
zacts thanks 14:30
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stevied Is the Perl6 book still worth a look or is it too old? I’m thinking it’s probably the highest quality book but may be too far out of date. 17:00
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lizmat stevied if you mean Think Perl 6 (aka Think Raku), that *is* pretty much up-to-date 18:04
also Learning Perl6 is also pretty much up-to-date 18:05