This channel is intended for people just starting with the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). Logs are available at irclogs.raku.org/raku-beginner/live.html
Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022.
Superstart033 ```> class Animal { 00:09
* has $!name;
* has $!species;
Package 'Animal' already has an attribute named '$!name'```
A bit confuse with this, why I cant create my own class name Animal?
guifa_ m: class Animal { has $!name; has $!species } 00:15
camelia ( no output )
guifa_ you should be able to
Superstart033 I know I should, but as you can see it throws me that error. 00:17
guifa_ Are you in the REPL? 00:20
Superstart033 Yeah 00:21
guifa_ Based on the error, the only thing I can imagine is that somehow it received the line `has $!name` twice
Nemokosch the REPL is not really reliable for anything that has the smallest compilation potential 00:22
Superstart033 How so? I work with the class Human from an example in the guide I'm following, and it works fine 00:23
Nemokosch it's okay for quick exploration but many things just wouldn't work
for example, the REPL modules notoriously cannot handle operator definitions
Superstart033 I also found that it can't handle ñ 00:24
Nemokosch I wouldn't use it for anything more complex then (non-multi) sub declaration and invocation
I wouldn't use it for anything more complex than (non-multi) sub declaration and invocation 00:25
Superstart033 Ok, I'll use it just for this guide. After that I'll just use VS code like always
Thanks for the help
Nemokosch it's like a running joke at this point that the promised land comes with RakuAST 00:26
Superstart033 RakuAST? 00:27
Nemokosch the problem being that RakuAST still might take more than a year to be complete
guifa has at least used some (experimental) RakuAST features 00:29
guifa_ RakuAST will be made available via `use experimental` in about a month or so 00:30
Nemokosch I heard that RakuAST would really extend the potential of REPL modules, I don't know how though, can't see it yet 00:33
and still, of course it would only extend their potential if somebody actually used the relevant features
and made the development on the REPL side
guifa_ Ah, I'm not sure really how it might help on the REPL side. Mine has been mainly for creating formatters ^_^ 00:34
and DSLs
Nemokosch yes, I can recall something 00:35
perhaps lizmat said it
a presentation about it by jnthn 00:39
(from 2020, to give you an idea about the progress) 00:40
Superstart033 2 years
Nemokosch the thing is, there aren't many people to work on it 00:42
not many people have the knowledge and even less people have the motivation
do you know the weeklies?
Rakudo weekly news
guifa_ Some of the slowdown was because jnthn wasn't well, and had to step away for a while. Since it involves a lot of core hacking, there's only so many people that can really work with it
guifa_ is afk 00:43
Nemokosch That's quite unfortunate... 00:44
Superstart033 Is the Raku community consider small? I though part of the Perl community was also interest in it.
Nemokosch That's a long story and I'm probably not an authentic person to talk about it 00:46
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Long story short, as it became obvious that Raku won't be the next iteration of Perl in the replacement sense, a serious scratch evolved within the Perl community 00:48
And when this was finalized by the renaming of the language, I'd say this scratch developed further into a break
so now the languages are similar, the goals are more or less similar but not many people think in "Perl and Raku" in the core communities of the languages 00:50
If you ask me, this is a pity because Perl has a massive legacy and it seems like this wasn't utilized well 00:52
anyway, back to the question <@179666061795262464>
do you know the rakudo weeklies that lizmat writes and posts here?
Superstart033 Just saw them today, so yeah 00:53
Nemokosch then you can see something like 00:56
> Stefan Seifert continued working on the RakuAST branch, allowing native / custom array types to be used as attributes, upping number of passing test-files to 536/1354 (+4) and 68/131 (+3).
I for one like to connect the full names to the online nicknames - Stefan Seifert is nine / niner
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Superstart033 Are there libs to open pdfs with Raku? 14:21
Nemokosch what counts as "open"? 14:23
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Superstart033 Read the information of the file cmd. 14:39
Read the information of the file on the cmd.
Because open it I now I can do that XD
Kaiepi plenty, though i can't comment on their quality raku.land/?q=pdf 14:46
Nemokosch I tend to trust David Warring 14:52
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Anton Antonov <@297037173541175296> You one of the target "Python-struck" people from the Raku community in my reddit/r/rakukand rant. 15:33
<@297037173541175296> You one of the target "Python-struck people from the Raku community" in my reddit/r/rakukand rant.
Nemokosch what do you mean? 15:43
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Anton Antonov <@297037173541175296> www.reddit.com/r/rakulang/comments...;context=3 16:09
<@297037173541175296> See the "wrongthink" item.
<@928301352029937715> Is the other one I am aware of who is on the "wrongthink" side... 16:10
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Nemokosch okay, what do I have to do with this? 😅 16:41
Anton Antonov <@297037173541175296> Hmmm.... you confessed being inspired by Python... (And think you are on record...) 16:52
Nemokosch Well that's an interesting interpretation 16:53
Didn't I rather say something along the lines of "I started Raku because Python was too cumbersome for scripting"? 16:54
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p6steve would i rather write python than raku? no! 17:05
is it possible to do productive things in raku with a small python-like subset? yes! 17:06
would i like to see raku replace python? yes! (it is a step change in coding power) 17:08
so i am impressed by the 1000s x larger community that python has and i would like to encourage some of these folks to come over and try raku and maybe take it seriously 17:09
that would help us get more tuits to do more stuff and squash down any remaining negatives 17:10
Nemokosch I think we can talk about what Python gets right and what Raku has better - but perhaps this isn't the right place 17:39
Anton Antonov Python is for people who do not want to program — i.e. eternal beginners. Raku , _currently_, is for people who want to program. So, Raku has to have much more mileage in order to “replace” Python. 17:43
Superstart033 You are insulting a big bunch of the industry by saying that 💀 17:49
You are insulting a big bunch of the industry by saying that about Python 💀 17:50
I started Raku because I feel curious. I bought this big bundle of programming books because there was a Perl book along side all those other books of python and Java, and then found out Perl 6 existed
Anton Antonov "You are insulting a big bunch of the industry by saying that about Python" -- Maybe, maybe not. More comprehensive insulting is given here : pythonforprediction.wordpress.com/...-projects/ . 18:00
"I started Raku because I feel curious." -- You are confirming what I am saying : it seems that you want to program. (Hence trying out Raku.)
"You are insulting a big bunch of the industry by saying that about Python" -- Maybe, maybe not. More comprehensive insulting is given here : pythonforprediction.wordpress.com/...-projects/ .
"I started Raku because I feel curious." -- You are confirming what I am saying : it seems that you want to program. (Hence trying out Raku.)
Nemokosch I think this is a bit like that "real programmer" joke from the old times, seventies or maybe eighties 18:12
Anton Antonov I am not sure what you are referring to, but, I would say that currently Raku is for "real programmers." (I.e. people who want to program.) 18:18
Nemokosch en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Program...Use_Pascal 18:21
Anton Antonov <@297037173541175296> I see. You might appreciate the effort of making this meme (and even like it): 18:25
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To be honest, this somewhat reflects my implementing of Machine Learning (ML) algorithms in Raku -- I do it because of the "from scratch" challenges, but I really wish Raku was faster. 18:27
To be honest, this somewhat reflects my implementing of Machine Learning (ML) algorithms in Raku -- I do it because of the "from scratch" ML implementation challenges, but I really wish Raku was faster. 18:29
To be honest, this somewhat reflects my implementing of Machine Learning (ML) algorithms in Raku -- I do it because of the "from scratch" ML implementation challenges, but I really wish Raku is faster.
Nemokosch I'm afraid the only way to escape this catch-22-ish situation is to get users who don't mind the performance and then work out the improvements on the way
Anton Antonov Yeah -- my approach is to use DSLs and "clothes have no emperor" principle. But it is not embraced as much I as though it might be. 18:31
Nemokosch if it were easy to make Rakudo faster, it would already be faster - and tbh it is "faster" - compared to its former self
consider the new dispatch mechanism, for example
Anton Antonov Related : "The cure of high prices is high prices."
There is a relevant Bulgarian proverb : "The Wolf has thick neck because he does his work himself." 18:33
Superstart033 The speed of Raku is not so bad as far as I had experience. 18:46
By faster, you mean Java fast, Lua fast or C fast? 18:47
<@694526400488669234>
Anton Antonov <@179666061795262464> Last time I was doing stuff with Lua, 10 years ago, it was not fast... But that might have changed. See the performance section here : rakuforprediction.wordpress.com/20...equencies/ 18:52
It compares Java, Mathematica, and Raku speeds over "Prefix trees with frequencies" implementations.
<@179666061795262464> I recently made a comprehensive comparison of the same type of a Recommender System (RS) implemented in eight different languages. The Raku implementation is the reference implementation of Java, Kotlin, SQLite, and Swift, but I could not include into the overall comparison statistics because ingesting data with Raku was so slow (the actual RS computations were slow too.) On advice given here I used CBOR 18:58
Granted, Python was using a OS-native C library, the Raku "CBOR::Simple" is pure Raku, but still...
Nemokosch my personal problem is that it's hard to anticipate what is costly and what isn't 19:06
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