This channel is intended for people just starting with the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). Logs are available at irclogs.raku.org/raku-beginner/live.html Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022. |
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Superstart033 | ```> class Animal { | 00:09 | |
* has $!name; | |||
* has $!species; | |||
Package 'Animal' already has an attribute named '$!name'``` | |||
A bit confuse with this, why I cant create my own class name Animal? | |||
guifa_ | m: class Animal { has $!name; has $!species } | 00:15 | |
camelia | ( no output ) | ||
guifa_ | you should be able to | ||
Superstart033 | I know I should, but as you can see it throws me that error. | 00:17 | |
guifa_ | Are you in the REPL? | 00:20 | |
Superstart033 | Yeah | 00:21 | |
guifa_ | Based on the error, the only thing I can imagine is that somehow it received the line `has $!name` twice | ||
Nemokosch | the REPL is not really reliable for anything that has the smallest compilation potential | 00:22 | |
Superstart033 | How so? I work with the class Human from an example in the guide I'm following, and it works fine | 00:23 | |
Nemokosch | it's okay for quick exploration but many things just wouldn't work | ||
for example, the REPL modules notoriously cannot handle operator definitions | |||
Superstart033 | I also found that it can't handle ñ | 00:24 | |
Nemokosch | I wouldn't use it for anything more complex then (non-multi) sub declaration and invocation | ||
I wouldn't use it for anything more complex than (non-multi) sub declaration and invocation | 00:25 | ||
Superstart033 | Ok, I'll use it just for this guide. After that I'll just use VS code like always | ||
Thanks for the help | |||
Nemokosch | it's like a running joke at this point that the promised land comes with RakuAST | 00:26 | |
Superstart033 | RakuAST? | 00:27 | |
Nemokosch | the problem being that RakuAST still might take more than a year to be complete | ||
guifa has at least used some (experimental) RakuAST features | 00:29 | ||
guifa_ | RakuAST will be made available via `use experimental` in about a month or so | 00:30 | |
Nemokosch | I heard that RakuAST would really extend the potential of REPL modules, I don't know how though, can't see it yet | 00:33 | |
and still, of course it would only extend their potential if somebody actually used the relevant features | |||
and made the development on the REPL side | |||
guifa_ | Ah, I'm not sure really how it might help on the REPL side. Mine has been mainly for creating formatters ^_^ | 00:34 | |
and DSLs | |||
Nemokosch | yes, I can recall something | 00:35 | |
perhaps lizmat said it | |||
a presentation about it by jnthn | 00:39 | ||
(from 2020, to give you an idea about the progress) | 00:40 | ||
Superstart033 | 2 years | ||
Nemokosch | the thing is, there aren't many people to work on it | 00:42 | |
not many people have the knowledge and even less people have the motivation | |||
do you know the weeklies? | |||
Rakudo weekly news | |||
guifa_ | Some of the slowdown was because jnthn wasn't well, and had to step away for a while. Since it involves a lot of core hacking, there's only so many people that can really work with it | ||
guifa_ is afk | 00:43 | ||
Nemokosch | That's quite unfortunate... | 00:44 | |
Superstart033 | Is the Raku community consider small? I though part of the Perl community was also interest in it. | ||
Nemokosch | That's a long story and I'm probably not an authentic person to talk about it | 00:46 | |
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Long story short, as it became obvious that Raku won't be the next iteration of Perl in the replacement sense, a serious scratch evolved within the Perl community | 00:48 | ||
And when this was finalized by the renaming of the language, I'd say this scratch developed further into a break | |||
so now the languages are similar, the goals are more or less similar but not many people think in "Perl and Raku" in the core communities of the languages | 00:50 | ||
If you ask me, this is a pity because Perl has a massive legacy and it seems like this wasn't utilized well | 00:52 | ||
anyway, back to the question <@179666061795262464> | |||
do you know the rakudo weeklies that lizmat writes and posts here? | |||
Superstart033 | Just saw them today, so yeah | 00:53 | |
Nemokosch | then you can see something like | 00:56 | |
> Stefan Seifert continued working on the RakuAST branch, allowing native / custom array types to be used as attributes, upping number of passing test-files to 536/1354 (+4) and 68/131 (+3). | |||
I for one like to connect the full names to the online nicknames - Stefan Seifert is nine / niner | |||
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Superstart033 | Are there libs to open pdfs with Raku? | 14:21 | |
Nemokosch | what counts as "open"? | 14:23 | |
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Superstart033 | Read the information of the file cmd. | 14:39 | |
Read the information of the file on the cmd. | |||
Because open it I now I can do that XD | |||
Kaiepi | plenty, though i can't comment on their quality raku.land/?q=pdf | 14:46 | |
Nemokosch | I tend to trust David Warring | 14:52 | |
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Anton Antonov | <@297037173541175296> You one of the target "Python-struck" people from the Raku community in my reddit/r/rakukand rant. | 15:33 | |
<@297037173541175296> You one of the target "Python-struck people from the Raku community" in my reddit/r/rakukand rant. | |||
Nemokosch | what do you mean? | 15:43 | |
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Anton Antonov | <@297037173541175296> www.reddit.com/r/rakulang/comments...;context=3 | 16:09 | |
<@297037173541175296> See the "wrongthink" item. | |||
<@928301352029937715> Is the other one I am aware of who is on the "wrongthink" side... | 16:10 | ||
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Nemokosch | okay, what do I have to do with this? 😅 | 16:41 | |
Anton Antonov | <@297037173541175296> Hmmm.... you confessed being inspired by Python... (And think you are on record...) | 16:52 | |
Nemokosch | Well that's an interesting interpretation | 16:53 | |
Didn't I rather say something along the lines of "I started Raku because Python was too cumbersome for scripting"? | 16:54 | ||
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p6steve | would i rather write python than raku? no! | 17:05 | |
is it possible to do productive things in raku with a small python-like subset? yes! | 17:06 | ||
would i like to see raku replace python? yes! (it is a step change in coding power) | 17:08 | ||
so i am impressed by the 1000s x larger community that python has and i would like to encourage some of these folks to come over and try raku and maybe take it seriously | 17:09 | ||
that would help us get more tuits to do more stuff and squash down any remaining negatives | 17:10 | ||
Nemokosch | I think we can talk about what Python gets right and what Raku has better - but perhaps this isn't the right place | 17:39 | |
Anton Antonov | Python is for people who do not want to program — i.e. eternal beginners. Raku , _currently_, is for people who want to program. So, Raku has to have much more mileage in order to “replace” Python. | 17:43 | |
Superstart033 | You are insulting a big bunch of the industry by saying that 💀 | 17:49 | |
You are insulting a big bunch of the industry by saying that about Python 💀 | 17:50 | ||
I started Raku because I feel curious. I bought this big bundle of programming books because there was a Perl book along side all those other books of python and Java, and then found out Perl 6 existed | |||
Anton Antonov | "You are insulting a big bunch of the industry by saying that about Python" -- Maybe, maybe not. More comprehensive insulting is given here : pythonforprediction.wordpress.com/...-projects/ . | 18:00 | |
"I started Raku because I feel curious." -- You are confirming what I am saying : it seems that you want to program. (Hence trying out Raku.) | |||
"You are insulting a big bunch of the industry by saying that about Python" -- Maybe, maybe not. More comprehensive insulting is given here : pythonforprediction.wordpress.com/...-projects/ . | |||
"I started Raku because I feel curious." -- You are confirming what I am saying : it seems that you want to program. (Hence trying out Raku.) | |||
Nemokosch | I think this is a bit like that "real programmer" joke from the old times, seventies or maybe eighties | 18:12 | |
Anton Antonov | I am not sure what you are referring to, but, I would say that currently Raku is for "real programmers." (I.e. people who want to program.) | 18:18 | |
Nemokosch | en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Program...Use_Pascal | 18:21 | |
Anton Antonov | <@297037173541175296> I see. You might appreciate the effort of making this meme (and even like it): | 18:25 | |
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To be honest, this somewhat reflects my implementing of Machine Learning (ML) algorithms in Raku -- I do it because of the "from scratch" challenges, but I really wish Raku was faster. | 18:27 | ||
To be honest, this somewhat reflects my implementing of Machine Learning (ML) algorithms in Raku -- I do it because of the "from scratch" ML implementation challenges, but I really wish Raku was faster. | 18:29 | ||
To be honest, this somewhat reflects my implementing of Machine Learning (ML) algorithms in Raku -- I do it because of the "from scratch" ML implementation challenges, but I really wish Raku is faster. | |||
Nemokosch | I'm afraid the only way to escape this catch-22-ish situation is to get users who don't mind the performance and then work out the improvements on the way | ||
Anton Antonov | Yeah -- my approach is to use DSLs and "clothes have no emperor" principle. But it is not embraced as much I as though it might be. | 18:31 | |
Nemokosch | if it were easy to make Rakudo faster, it would already be faster - and tbh it is "faster" - compared to its former self | ||
consider the new dispatch mechanism, for example | |||
Anton Antonov | Related : "The cure of high prices is high prices." | ||
There is a relevant Bulgarian proverb : "The Wolf has thick neck because he does his work himself." | 18:33 | ||
Superstart033 | The speed of Raku is not so bad as far as I had experience. | 18:46 | |
By faster, you mean Java fast, Lua fast or C fast? | 18:47 | ||
<@694526400488669234> | |||
Anton Antonov | <@179666061795262464> Last time I was doing stuff with Lua, 10 years ago, it was not fast... But that might have changed. See the performance section here : rakuforprediction.wordpress.com/20...equencies/ | 18:52 | |
It compares Java, Mathematica, and Raku speeds over "Prefix trees with frequencies" implementations. | |||
<@179666061795262464> I recently made a comprehensive comparison of the same type of a Recommender System (RS) implemented in eight different languages. The Raku implementation is the reference implementation of Java, Kotlin, SQLite, and Swift, but I could not include into the overall comparison statistics because ingesting data with Raku was so slow (the actual RS computations were slow too.) On advice given here I used CBOR | 18:58 | ||
Granted, Python was using a OS-native C library, the Raku "CBOR::Simple" is pure Raku, but still... | |||
Nemokosch | my personal problem is that it's hard to anticipate what is costly and what isn't | 19:06 | |
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