This channel is intended for people just starting with the Raku Programming Language ( Logs are available at
Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022.
:(*@args, *%kwargs) what are .^ methods? 00:36
Nemokosch metamethods - they act upon the objects of the metamodel
mostly used for introspection 00:37
:(*@args, *%kwargs) m: class Foo {} say^name; 00:53
Nemokosch m: class Foo {} say; 00:54
m: class Foo {} say .name($_) given;
this is what .^ is a shorthand for, from what I know
calling a method on .HOW, while also passing it as the first argument 00:55
:(*@args, *%kwargs) m: class Foo {} say; 01:57
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is it me or weak typing is a bad thing 03:33
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is raku made to accomodate someone who has enough time to type code in character map lol why does it support so many unicode symbols 06:47
what does nqp do 06:53
CIAvash you don't need to enter characters by their code: 06:54
Nemokosch I mean, well done, the name of Any is indeed Any ๐Ÿ˜„ 07:37
NQP is the bootstrapping language of Raku (not sure if it's specced as such but that's how it is in Rakudo) 07:38
:(*@args, *%kwargs) so it gets the name of the invocant instead of the first arg? 07:39
Nemokosch Don't forget that the first argument you passed is not even a metaobject 07:40
m: Any.HOW.say 07:43 07:46
:(*@args, *%kwargs) why does my function returns Nil 07:56
oh the last for just got interpreted as a statement 07:57
Nemokosch yes, your last for is run in sunk context
however, this is nothing a do statement prefix couldn't accomodate for 07:58
:(*@args, *%kwargs) i just wrap it in parens
Nemokosch 08:03
changed two little things
:(*@args, *%kwargs) thx 08:05
m:perl my @a is default(True); say @a[1]; say @a; 08:06
is that autovivification magic
Nemokosch basically yes
it says "if you retrieve a value that doesn't exist, you should get this"
:(*@args, *%kwargs) is there builtin function which does .raku.say? 08:09
Nemokosch more or less
:(*@args, *%kwargs) like this sub say-raku($v) { $v.raku.say }
Nemokosch dd does something that includes that
it tries to fetch the name of the variable as well
m: my @a = [[1,2],3]; dd @a 08:10
m: my @a = [[1,2],3]; dd @a[0]
mind the $
:(*@args, *%kwargs) $ = container 08:11
Nemokosch because it's an element of an array
so it's wrapped in a SCalar
:(*@args, *%kwargs) m: say 13.Str.comb.reverse.join.Int
chaining magic ๐Ÿ˜Ž
Nemokosch you don't even need .Str I think 08:12
weak typing ๐Ÿ˜†
say 13.comb.reverse.join.Int
m: say 13.comb.reverse.join.Int
actually, this is just 13.flip.Int
:(*@args, *%kwargs) m: say 13.flip 08:13
Nemokosch m: dd 13.flip
the reason is that Int is Cool 08:14
this is not my pun
:(*@args, *%kwargs) weak typing isn't cool ๐Ÿ˜ค 08:16
Nemokosch not even if it's called inheritance? ๐Ÿ˜› 08:17
:(*@args, *%kwargs) its not if unrelated types are implicitly coerced 08:20
m: say 1 + '1'
Nemokosch that's a different case 08:21
and well, "implicitly"? Isn't it what + signals?
as opposed to ~ for example
:(*@args, *%kwargs) ok "explicitly" coerced
implicit because there is no .Int after the string 08:23
Nemokosch okay but who decided that .Int (or perhaps better said .Numeric) is the only way to mark the operands as numbers?
:(*@args, *%kwargs) me 08:26
Nemokosch ๐Ÿˆ
btw I might have found a bug 08:28
all roles are Cool
:(*@args, *%kwargs) :cameliathink: 08:29
m: my @set = (1, 2, 3).Set; dd @set; 08:30
somehow everything in @ is coerced into an Array 08:31
Nemokosch there are two things with @ 08:35
an enforced type constrain (Positional)
and a default type (Array)
when you assign a value to a my @var, you are putting stuff into the array 08:36
if you were to bind instead
m: my @set := (1, 2, 3).Set;
dang, that doesn't fulfill the constraint
:(*@args, *%kwargs) how do i convert from a list of keys to a Map with the keys in the same order 08:44
Nemokosch Maps don't keep order I think 08:45
that's intrinsic to their representation
:(*@args, *%kwargs) Hash does? 08:46
Nemokosch probably not
there are modules that enforce some ordering but that's definitely a performance penalty
Nahita you canuse Hash::Ordered if you must 08:47
:(*@args, *%kwargs) how to apply a callable to a list 08:58
Nemokosch what do you mean? this sounds like a function call with a list argument 08:59
:(*@args, *%kwargs) py f(*args) or like this in jsjs f.apply(null, args) 09:00
do i use slips again?
Nemokosch oh so you want to unpack it into an argument list? 09:01
Well, basically yes, except here I think you must use the | syntax
or something
| can be used for unpacking a Pair or Map into named arguments, too 09:03
:(*@args, *%kwargs) til there are 3 kinds of slurpy args 09:07
m: sub f(*@args) { @args } sub g(**@args) { @args } sub h(+@args) { @args } say f(1, (2, 3), 4); say g(1, (2, 3), 4); say h(1, (2, 3), 4); 09:09
** slurpy is the closest to other languages 09:10
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Nemokosch yes 09:11
* is kind of legacy and + is the pragma
:(**@args, **%kwargs) does the choice of slurpy types affect named slurpies? 09:14
m: sub f(*%kwargs) { %kwargs } sub g(**%kwargs) { %kwargs } sub h(+%kwargs) { %kwargs } say f( :a(1), :b(2, 3) ); say g( :a(1), :b(2, 3) ); say h( :a(1), :b(2, 3) ); 09:15
bruh 09:16
Nahita i was trying the last one and it becomes and Array :y
m: -> +%k { %k.say }((a => 4, b => -2)) 09:17
** and + not meant to use with %
**%a one turns into %a
+%a turns into... array
:(**@args, *%kwargs) i want to use ** with % for consistency with **@ ๐Ÿ˜ญ 09:18
Nahita it turns into array for scalars as welll
m: -> +$a { $a.say }(4, 5) 09:19
i think +%k is better for esoterism
then +$a
Nemokosch fair enough tbh
also, does *%kwargs flatten or not? 09:20
seems to me that flattening a map/hash is not really a thing 09:26
well okay, I think consistency would be if ** and + existed for named arguments as well...
:(**@args, *%kwargs) except that for named argument there are no flattening and they are the same 09:29
Nemokosch same as what?
oh you mean *%a to be the same as **%a? 09:30
:(**@args, *%kwargs) as in, *, ** and + should have the same behavior for %
Nemokosch +% maybe not
:(**@args, *%kwargs) oh yeah 09:31
m: say 1 in, 2, 3); 09:32
Nemokosch but yeah I think this could be added to another language version no problem
probably not on the fly because it is kind of a breaking change 09:33
:(**@args, *%kwargs) m: say 1 (elem), 2, 3);
Nemokosch what's the problem?
:(**@args, *%kwargs) is in ever used for anything
Nemokosch not sure 09:34 welp
:(**@args, *%kwargs) why can't they just use keyword in instead of (elem) or โˆˆ
Nemokosch well, add it for yourself 09:35
sub infix<in>($a, $b) { $a (elem) $b } 09:36
or something
:(**@args, *%kwargs) m: my &infix:<in> = infix:<(elem)>; say(3 in (1, 2, 3).Set); 09:37
Nemokosch missed the &
:(**@args, *%kwargs) m: my &infix:<in> = &infix:<(elem)>; say(3 in (1, 2, 3).Set);
Nemokosch actually this is a better idea than what I did 09:38
anyway, if you have preferences of this sort, you can create e.g a module for yourself and load that 09:43
kinda simple
:(**@args, *%kwargs) how do i set the operator precedence of my defined operators 09:57
Nahita 09:58
:(**@args, *%kwargs) > Specifying the associativity of non-infix operators is planed but not yet implemented. why do unary (prefix or postfix) operators need associativity 10:09
Nemokosch Good question xd 10:13
However, this question might be about postcircumfix or sth 10:14
:(**@args, *%kwargs) i dont think postcircumfix might need associativity 10:15
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what is the equovalent of super in raku 11:37
Nahita i realized captures are both positional and named slurpers 11:39
m: -> |allargs { allargs.say }(3, 4, a => 2) 11:40
m: -> |allargs { allargs.say }(a => 2, 3, 4)
Nemokosch I wish I knew, at this point I suspect it may not even exist 12:10
Probably some metamodel magic
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:(**@args, *%kwargs) why no super tho 13:16
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like it should be one of the most basic oo features 13:21
Nemokosch I think it's the concept that is a bit shallow 13:24
How does Python do it?
With multi dispatch (and mixins, in Raku)
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lizmat if you want to use super, you probably want to look into using roles 13:43
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Nemokosch I wanted to say multiple inheritance, not multiple dispatch 14:07
:(**@args, *%kwargs) python classes have an mro created using C3 algorithm (like raku) super then just pick the next element in the mro so if the mro is [A, B, C, object] then super() will just create an object that forward anything to B 14:11
Nemokosch lizmat: how do you use roles in a similar way? 14:23
lizmat if this is about calling methods in a parent class, then could be of interest 14:30
Nemokosch It seems problematic that method resolution is backed up by the same (non-transparent) rules as multiple dispatch motivated by the type of function parameters 14:34
Python can do this safely because there are absolutely no function overloads 14:35
It might be something that I don't know. With inheritance and mixins (?), there can be multiple protos; super is logically about switching protos, not switching candidates 14:42
lizmat a proto is a "stopper" in dispatch terms 14:43
at least, afaik :-)
Nemokosch What does that mean? ๐Ÿ‘€ 14:50
Before starting the guessing game... I don't feel I would know the hierarchy when you have inheritance and some candidates on both levels in the inheritance chain 14:52
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lizmat m: class A { proto method a() { dd } }; class B is A { proto method a() { dd; nextsame } }; B.a # I stand corrected 15:58
camelia method a(B: *%_)
method a(A: *%_)
method a(B: *%_)
method a(A: *%_)
:(**@args, *%kwargs) why doesnโ€™t it wrap in code blocks to get away with discord formatting 16:03
lizmat someone on the Discord side should answer that I thiunk 16:06
:(**@args, *%kwargs) super should be easy? A.^mro[1] should get the superclass whats next is just creating an object to forward calls to that superclass? 16:14
is there a method to call when a wrong (missing) method is called 16:18
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Rog Yep, FALLBACK 16:28
Zephyr I'll look into both mentioned issues in a bit, thanks for noticing 16:41
:(**@args, *%kwargs) m: class A { method FALLBACK(**@args, *%kwargs) { say %(|@args, |%kwargs); } } my $a =; $a.x(1, 2, foo => 'bar'); 17:18
m: class A { method FALLBACK(**@args, *%kwargs) { say %(|@args.pairs, |%kwargs); } } my $a =; $a.x(1, 2, foo => 'bar');
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