This channel is intended for people just starting with the Raku Programming Language ( Logs are available at
Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022.
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pelevesque Does zef look at the api number to pick the latest release when doing zef install? For version 0.1.0 I put api 1.0, but then I downgraded the api to 0 for version 0.2.0 as I wanted to have the api match the major version number of my semver, but now I think it might of messed up my downloads, just wondering. I might have to make a new version with API back to 1. 01:00
rf Not sure, I think its most common to avoid the api versioning all together. 01:01
pelevesque I have version 0.2.0 up on rakuland, but when in do zef install MIDI::Make, it tries to install 0.1.0. Trying to figure out why. 01:02
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rf I'll take a look 01:21
Do zef install --force-install MIDI::Make
If you already have it installed at 0.1.0 it won't update without force 01:22
Hmm, nvm. I'm getting 0.1.0 as well
do `fez list` copy the newest version of MIDI::Make, `fez remove ${what-you-copied}` then I would get rid of the API change things since your module is so new anyways and just publish 0.2.0 01:24
pelevesque OK thanks. 01:30
habere-et-disper How do I parse markdown? Text::Markdown and Text::CodeProcessing do not handle tildes as fenced code bock delimiters. 01:35
pelevesque I did remove, and I get a request received message. I guess I have to wait for someone to manually remove it? 01:37
rf pelevesque: It just takes a few moments 01:43
pelevesque when I do fez list it's gone, but 0.2.0 still shows up in rakuland. It's been like 10 min 01:44
rf Yeah, rakuland indexes on a time-interval 01:45
If it's gone from list then it's gone.
pelevesque ok thanks.
thanks a bunch
rf No problem, packaging is normally a pretty big pain-point to learn so I am happy to help 01:46
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pelevesque Thanks. I tried to fix. My friend can install, but I no longer can. Can anyone try for fun. zef install MIDI::Make It would really help me to know if others can install. 03:13
Nevermind. It works now. Not sure why. 03:17
rf pelevesque: You should run fez update 03:24
Sometimes your local fez has no idea about packages upstream
zef update
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pelevesque OK thanks! 15:21
I resolved my problems from yesterday and things are working nice. Thanks everyone. Great community. Raku is the best.
el gatito (** advocate) why is multiple inheritance added in raku if roles exist 16:29
Nemokosch I don't actually know. there is more squared way to do it 16:30
lizmat indeed, why is there a feed op ==> and a feed op <== 16:34
Anton Antonov @el gatito (** advocate) Clear code adherence of OOP's LSP is one reason. 16:38
el gatito (** advocate) wdym imo multiple inheritance are just tricky to work with with no added benefit 16:40
pelevesque Don't use a pattern/construct if it is not helping you.
lizmat then by all means use roles :-)
Raku was NOT started to break all compatibility with Perl 16:41
el gatito (** advocate) elaborate 16:43
lizmat so inheritance was definitely *not* taken off the table
el gatito (** advocate) so it was just backward compatibility 16:45
the worst thing about raku is perl 16:46
pelevesque Raku could not have existed without the previous Perl experience. It's history and years of experience from Perl is what makes it so powerful. 16:47
Nemokosch I agree with the sentiment, though. The more I use Raku, the more I hate Perl for ever existing 16:48
Anton Antonov Will do later today/tonight.
Nemokosch it's a language that seems to come with a deliberate hippie attitude. Let's do everything differently from the rest of the world only for the s(nowfl)ake of it 16:49
Anton Antonov presentation incoming 16:51
pelevesque Really? I programmed in many languages, and to me Raku is amazing. It makes it really hard to go back to JS. So many things are really well thought out. The grammar and Regex system is out of this world amazing... Just the small things like how you can organize your whitespace better. 16:52
Nemokosch Of course there is another reading to it: those languages got mainstream that fixed the mistakes of Perl. 16:53
el gatito (** advocate) yeah but those are not perl
Anton Antonov I tried Perl 25 years and "dropped it" after 2-3 days. I am glad I can do things with Raku. (And, yes, I still find Perl annoying when I have to look into programs written with it.)
Nemokosch if there is a conclusion to draw from this is that in 2023, it's not a virtue to do something by this reasoning, "oh I've been doing this just fine in Perl for decades" 16:54
pelevesque In Raku, everything is simple and elegant to me. You can keep it super simple, or add complexity. The gradual type system is a dream. You don't want to have types, fine. You want to have some, ok. You want to make custom ones, easy. I feel it's like a BASIC on drugs. BASIC in the sense that things are obvious, but on drugs because it can get really fancy and rich.
Nemokosch yes, some people stuck with Perl, sure, but much more moved on, and do even finer
Mind you, I'm talking about Perl and "backwards compatibility"
Anton Antonov I did not think about making a long presentation... But if some large enough "verbal entropy" formulations come to mind I might consider responding with them... 16:55
Nemokosch It's no heresy to do something like Python or JS or whatever other scripting language I'm not really using
anyway, for the record, I don't mind multiple inheritance in particular 16:56
pelevesque Just use the tool for the job. There are so many tools out there nowadays, it's an amazing time to be alive.
Nemokosch I don't see the harm it woud do
My biggest problem with Perl (or at least the Perl legacy) is that it not only lets you do hacking. It encourages hacking, furthermore often it makes hacking mandatory. 16:58
abusal of namespaces, module conflicts, dynamic (as in, non-lexical, caller context) behavior to radicals... 16:59
pelevesque You feel like you are hacking in Raku. I feel the complete opposite. I feel it often has a much more elegant solution than other languages.
el gatito (** advocate) i mean i can avoid it its just, why 17:00
Nemokosch I think Raku is a result of deliberate attempt to break away from the downsides of Perl
el gatito (** advocate) hes talking abt perl i don’t think raku encourages that
Nemokosch but I'm not sure Perl users were the best people to identify the biggest problems of Perl, I mean no offense...
I think Raku comes with loads of great things 17:01
but there are things that remained simply out of Stockholm syndrome
pelevesque The comments in this post shed some nice light on the matter. 17:02
el gatito (** advocate) also has loads of things 17:06
how many language features do you want raku: yes 17:07
Nemokosch that's right 17:09
Raku comes with nuclear reactor included
this is, again, kind of different from Perl 5 17:10
el gatito (** advocate) i wonder if raku might suffer from feature creep in the near future 😭 17:12
Nemokosch tbh this discussion rallied off a lot 17:14
Anton Antonov @el gatito (** advocate) This comment summarizes my LSP comment above: > Inheritance is (or should be) about is-a relationships fulfilling Liskov's substitution principle. > > One example that I have seen about roles is GuardDog class example: in Dog class hierarchy, and consuming Guard role (which can be consumed by many different unrelated classes). 17:23
See the bottom of . 17:24
el gatito (** advocate) i read that so i should use multiple inheritance when my object is-a two things 17:25
like allomorphs 17:26
and use roles for almost everything else 17:27
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