This channel is intended for people just starting with the Raku Programming Language ( Logs are available at
Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022.
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avuserow This was the svn repo at the time, which made it even more remarkable in some ways. Everyone was committing to trunk, all the time. 14:18
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lucs Ah, didn't remember that. It appeared like a crazily unsafe idea, but it worked out really well. 14:35
Nemokosch but that's only going to fly if you aren't "in production" 14:48
and I think much of the bitterness about Raku's current state and future comes from sloppy ideas that carelessly made it "into production" and now there are no mechanisms to do basically anything about it 14:50
now we are stuck with the damage without the fun 14:51
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lucs Well, I'm having fun anyway. 15:37
Nemokosch I think one needs to avoid emotional involvement in order keep it have fun, and I'm working towards that goal, for one 15:41
lucs One man's person's "sloppy" is another person's "we-have-a-limited-amount-of-resources-to-perfect-this-before-release". 15:44
Nemokosch Let's take this somewhere else 15:46
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habere-et-disper How do you feel about this: 17:39
m: sub test { my $sum = 2+2; return sum }; test;
camelia ( no output )
habere-et-disper Perhaps we could get a warning if we choose a variable with the same name as a builtin?
m: sub test { my $sum = 123; return sum }; say test; 17:40
camelia 0
lucs You missed a '$' there... 17:41
habere-et-disper Yes, and a warning could have helped ? 17:43
lucs_ Hmm... Maybe. Still:
m: sub test { my $sum = 123; return $sum }; say test;
camelia 123
17:44 lucs_ is now known as lucs
lucs habere-et-disper: Actually, ⌊return sum⌉ correctly returns 0. Are you suggesting that having named the variable ⌊$sum⌉ should have warned? 17:51
I misunderstood what you were talking about at first, because I thought 'test' was a builtin and 'sum' was not :-) 17:52
Nemokosch the way I understand it, the use of sum where the variable $sum could have been used, should have warned maybe? it doesn't sound easy, though 17:53
habere-et-disper lucs -- Yes, it feels like a namespace clash to me and could it feels like it could help the complete beginner ?
lucs habere-et-disper: I see what you mean, but I kind of disagree. There is actually no clash because the namespaces are different, and who knows, every once in a while the "best" variable name in some context might happen to have a identically named builtin. 17:54
m: sub test { my \sum = 123; return sum }; say test; 17:55
camelia 123
lucs Unrecommended usage by the way :) 17:56
habere-et-disper I think I have run into this issue before in other languages -- which is why I bring it up -- it feels like the complete beginner is not being helped sufficiently in this instance. 18:04
In Pascal I once had a routine named println or somesuch which was overriding the builtin without warning and so it took really long time for the beginner to discover the mistake without a warning.
It's more like: 18:11
m: sub sum ( $a, $b ) { my $sum = $a + $b; return $sum }; #`( and then a lot later ) say sum (1, 2, 3);
camelia Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1
in sub sum at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
habere-et-disper The latter sum confuses because you can't understand why the builtin sum can't take more than two arguments because you were unaware that you had overridden a builtin.
p6steve I do not detect general bitterness, only some frustrated individuals who don't like various (well proven) language features - I am sad to see this kind of rant in the raku-beginner channel ... not very welcoming, is it? 18:25
Nemokosch "say sum (1, 2, 3)" is problematic for multiple reasons anyway - that function has only one argument
I think we went off when it was appropriate, and allow me to say that perhaps talking about what seemed like a good idea more than a decade ago as if it was relevant nowadays, is also not a healthy attitude... 18:26
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