This channel is intended for people just starting with the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). Logs are available at irclogs.raku.org/raku-beginner/live.html
Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022.
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aris How do I clear the REPL? 02:32
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Nemokosch I generally just make a call to shell 06:44
qx{clear}
I guess on windows it would be cls instead of clear?
deadmarshal right on windows it's "cls" 07:15
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jaguart lizmat++ thanks :) 08:28
A question on old habits - and Raku optimisation - do Raku folks always use '' when there is no interpolation, or do ya'all just "" and leave it to the optimiser? 08:41
I kind of hate pod6 :( - I write lots of comments, and use them to help me visually navigate my code. Trying to do this using pod6 does my head in 09:04
Basic things, like #| on successive lines should just be one declarator block for the following code... 09:06
aris I'm on Windows. `qx{cls}` doesn't clear it. It just re-prompts. I'm using Powershell with Windows Terminal. 09:09
Nemokosch well, then whatever it is called in powershell, lol
aris It is `cls` in Powershell but it has no effect in the REPL. 09:11
Nemokosch not sure why anyone would use Raku on Windows tbh
aris because I use Windows
Nemokosch WSL
aris no thanks
Nemokosch ĀÆ\_(惄)_/ĀÆ
aris well the REPL should not prefer one OS over another
Nemokosch a developer should, however 09:13
aris but I'm not
Nemokosch then again, not sure why want to clear the REPL, lol
aris it's messy
Nemokosch or why you are using terminal (let alone on Windows) in the first place
aris after a bunch of experimental statements
why are you questioning what I'm using?
Nemokosch because it's not suited for what you want to do
aris am I committing a sin?
Nemokosch is it not obvious
aris jeez
you must be a very proud guy 09:14
Nemokosch thanks for the assumptions I guess 09:15
aris thanks for blaming random guy's choice of OS
almighty person
Nemokosch you may call it blaming, I just said it's not suited for the goddamn thing you want to do
aris yeah so Raku isn't suitable on Windows you've said that like 3 times already at least
Nemokosch it would be more beneficial to evaluate whether this is true or not
jaguart aris - are you trying to reset your REPL session or clear the screen?
aris amazing of you to say that
that's right
Nemokosch pretty sure this was an either-or question
aris I'd like to clear the REPL screen <@853712446660673566> 09:17
jaguart I dont have your setup to test - does qx{dir} etc work? 09:20
aris let me try 09:21
it works
but not qx{cls}
jaguart try qx{clear}
aris error
because it's not a powershell command 09:22
jaguart hmmm - clear works in my PowerShell
Nemokosch Look, I might have found something but again, cannot promise that it works in a terminal running powershell... 09:23
have you installed Linenoise of all REPL modules?
aris I'm on 5.1 not powershell core btw 09:24
jaguart $PSVersionTable -> mine shows PSVersion 5.1
and both cls and clear are aliases to Clear-Host
qx{Clear-Host} maybe? 09:25
Nahita <@426689195076091905> i use `run "clear" andthen "".say`
aris yeah clear works actually on my powershell 5.1 but qx{clear} throws an error
Nemokosch in Linenoise, supposedly ctrl+L would clear the screen
aris ```'clear' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.```
let me c
error
```'Clear-Host' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.```
jaguart Do they work in just PowerShell outside the REPL? 09:26
aris no biggie I'll just experiment by running a script 09:27
clear works outside REPL
Clear-Host works too
outside REPL
Nahita i wrapped this in a function in a module 09:29
```
sub was is export {
run "clear" andthen return "";
```
inspired from this: perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/2013-repl-trick.html
i wrapped this in a function in a module
```
sub was is export {
run "clear" andthen return "";
}
```
inspired from this: perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/2013-repl-trick.html
the i write `was` to clear
but not sure why it doesn't work for you :\
aris ```Welcome to Rakudo(tm) v2022.06.
Implementing the Raku(R) Programming Language v6.d.
Built on MoarVM version 2022.06.
To exit type 'exit' or '^Z'
[0] > sub was is export {
* run "clear" andthen return "";
* }
&was
[1] > was
[2] > was()
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jaguart I assume that `run 'clear';` doesn't work any better than `qx{clear}?` 09:33
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jaguart and `shell( 'clear' )` 09:36
Nahita np; interesting...
side question: does invocation of `raku` to open the REPL starts using a lot of CPU for you as well? I witness this in a long-standing program as well (e.g., a GTK3 application). It uses ~16% CPU when even Chrome uses no more than 2% :p
it wouldn't matter for me but the computer starts making sounds, so i notice :p
np; interesting...
side question: does invocation of `raku` to open the REPL starts using a lot of CPU for you as well? I witness this in a long-standing program as well (e.g., a GTK3 application). It uses ~16% CPU when even Chrome uses no more than 2% :p (on Windows)
jaguart aris: see docs.raku.org/language/independent...#sub_shell
Nahita then i write `was` to clear 09:37
jaguart which indicated that on windows the system shell defaults to %*ENV<ComSpec>
so if you `say %*ENV<ComSpec>` you should see which shell the REPL is running - might not be powershell?
hmm - `run` doesnt use the shell... 09:38
Heres the powershell tty clear sequence: echo "$([char]27)c" 09:46
so you might just be able to say this to clear the screen
bbl 09:47
aris yeah it's running cmd (DOS) even though I executed the REPL from Powershell 09:52
weird
that's why the error messages said "batch file" in them 09:57
Nemokosch once again: can you install the Linenoise module? 10:05
aris yeah my cpu usage jumps by 5% when I execute REPL in Powershell 11:30
4 of my CPU cores are constantly active while REPL is running
lizmat 4 ?? 11:39
aris yup 11:40
when I exit they all die down
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to be more precise, 4 logical cores 11:44
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SmokeMachine aris: about clear, have you tried something like `print ā€œ\o33[1H\o33[1Jā€`? 11:49
Quibono Does raku have TCO? 11:50
aris I just tried printing that escape sequence and I got `Unable to initialize device PRN`. 11:53
I found `qx{powershell cls}` works but itā€™s obviously overkill 11:54
I found `qx{powershell cls}` works but itā€™s obviously overkilled
Nahita oh, thanks. so there's something going on for Raku on Windows... 11:55
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aris ``` 11:58
Welcome to Rakudo(tm) v2022.06. 11:59
Implementing the Raku(R) Programming Language v6.d.
Built on MoarVM version 2022.06.
To exit type 'exit' or '^Z'
[0] > qx{print "\o33[1H\o33[1J"}
Unable to initialize device PRN
[1] >
```
Nemokosch Somehow everybody seems to miss the fact that Linenoise apparently supports clearing the console by the Ctrl+L combination 12:01
Does it work on Windows? I have no idea but it's not obvious why it wouldn't, at least
aris `print "\033[1H\033[1J"` also gives me the same error message 12:09
I've also tried that in `cmd` (i.e. outside REPL) 12:10
Anyway, thanks a lot "raku-bots" for the help 12:11
Anton Antonov Of course, Machine Learning (ML) is "a lot about" real-time performance. šŸ™‚ That is why so many companies are trying to hardwarize as much as they can of ML algorithms. 14:22
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Nahita `.say for flat ($(24, 7),)` prints `(24, 7)`; however, `.say for flat $(24, 7)` prints 24, newline, 7; why is it flattening in this latter case? 15:15
Anton Antonov Because of the additional containerization in `($(24, 7),)`. This has been discussed in StackExchange -- let me find the link... 15:20
Nahita yes; despite that containerization, it flattens... 15:21
in the latter case, i mean
Anton Antonov See : stackoverflow.com/questions/416481...s-of-lists
Nahita isn't there that containerization, too?
isn't there containerization, too?
Anton Antonov My rationale is that `$(24 ,7)` is thing that `flat` detects to be a list and makes it a `Seq` object; `($(24, 7), )` is a list of things, and `flat` makes a `Seq` object of that list. 15:23
I am not sure if summary / rational that helps -- if its is a summary it all... 15:24
I am not sure if that summary / rationale helps -- if its is a summary it all... 15:30
Nahita i see, thanks... 15:32
i found this design.raku.org/S07.html#Iterable 15:33
> Note that flat respects Scalar containers, and so:
> 15:34
> for flat $(1, 2) { }
>
> Will only do one iteration.
but it does 2 iterations, and that's my confusion.
Nemokosch I think the docs are outdated on this one, and the described behavior doesn't sound too reasonable, either 15:48
Anton Antonov My rationale is that `$(24 ,7)` is a thing that `flat` detects to be a list and makes it a `Seq` object; `($(24, 7), )` is a list of things, and `flat` makes a `Seq` object of that list. 15:50
Nahita docs still say containerization is respected 15:57
Nemokosch I don't read it that way 15:59
Anton Antonov I am not sure if that summary / rationale helps -- if its is a summary at all... 16:00
Nemokosch "Interprets the invocant as a list (...)" now, what is $(1, 2) as a list?
Also, multi flat(Iterable \a) 16:01
It drops the container right away
I wouldn't feel safe without trying this... 16:07
m: dd $(1, 2).list
Well, there you go
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Nahita does it though 16:09
```py
>>> sub f(Iterable \a) { say a.raku }
&f
>>> f $(24, 7)
$(24, 7)
```
Nemokosch Well, sigilless variables do not have containers 16:13
At the same time, the docs also say that sigilless parameters always bind
See, that's why I said that I wouldn't feel safe without checking the .list method šŸ˜‚ 16:15
It won't matter
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gfldex Sigilless symbols don't have containers created automatically. They can very well be bound to one. 16:18
Anton Antonov How can check or verify that a sub is defined? With `&some-func.defined` I get `True` if `some-func` is defined, but otherwise I get the error message "Undeclared routine:...". 16:31
Nemokosch find-method? 16:36
^find_method, that is...
Kaiepi `\o33[1H\o33[1J` doesn't look right...
or rather it's overcomplicating things
gfldex <@694526400488669234> you have to do a runtime resolution for the symbol, match against Routine. Routine will always return True on .define, so that is redundant. 16:38
Kaiepi powershell has *some* capacity for ansi, just i need to rebuild to test 16:40
Nemokosch Maybe dynamic linking can be troublesome though
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ab5tract Regarding the runtime resolution of the symbol, you would look into the current package scope to check whether the name is defined and whether it is a Routine 16:43
That said, it sounds a bit like an X-Y problem.. unless you are doing some fairly nasty evals, you should be able to know whether a sub is in scope or not 16:45
Kaiepi in the meantine, have some chad newlines 16:48
in the meantime, have some chad newlines 16:49
gfldex m:my &lol-func = Routine; 16:54
Nemokosch What is VPR? A Viper? šŸ˜± 16:55
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Kaiepi it's `LINE POSITION FORWARD` as per ecma-48 17:13
no idea why that's the acronym
long `NL`
(in its default format)
i have no idea how i was building moarvm before because i don't have `cl` or `clang` apparently 17:20
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ofc it needs a reboot to do anything... 17:27
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at last, moar with msvc 18:40
complete pita to get the environment set up
`INCLUDE`/`LIB`/`PATH` scavenger hunt. weeee šŸ™„
šŸŽ‰ 18:48
try `\e[H\[J`
try `\e[H\e[J` 18:49
works in `mcd` too 18:52
works in `ccd` too
works in `cmd` too
Nahita (fwiw, it moves the cursor to top, but leaves every text in place, i.e., doesn't clear.) 18:54
(fwiw, it moves the cursor to top, but leaves every text in place, i.e., doesn't clear for me.) 18:55
but i hope it works for \<@426689195076091905> 18:56
that's the Raku syntax of mentioning a Discord user :p
(i tried to escape @, and that happened.)
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Kaiepi <@836605577400549436> `\e[H\e[2J`? 19:00
Nahita that works! 19:01
Kaiepi bingo
Nahita in case you are still on Windows, can you please tell if opening the raku REPL, for example, immediately causes an increase in the CPU usage? Like 5 to 15 percent 19:13
Kaiepi in a minute
it's around 5% on a new-ish workstation 19:19
(the big spikes are launching the process manager and me screencapping)
(the big spikes are me launching the process manager and screencapping)
Nahita thanks a lot
Kaiepi np 19:21
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aris I still get the same error with `print "\e[H\e[J"` in cmd: `Unable to initialize device PRN`. I don't know DOS syntax. So, maybe I didn't print it right. 21:32
Kaiepi huh 21:33
aris in fact the `print` command doesn't work no matter what input I give to it 21:35
it gives me the same error
Kaiepi weird 21:39
aris I finally figured it out. In cmd, to insert the escape character, press `Ctrl+[`. So, to clear the REPL, run `qx{^[[H^[[J}`, where each `^[` represents the escape character entered by pressing `Ctrl+[`. 22:05
Thanks <@210313526928080896> for the help. 22:06
I finally figured it out. In cmd, to insert the escape character, press `Ctrl+[`. So, to clear the REPL, run `qx{echo ^[[H^[[J}`, where each `^[` represents the escape character entered by pressing `Ctrl+[`.
I finally figured it out. In Powershell and cmd, to insert the escape character, press `Ctrl+[`. So, to clear the REPL, run `qx{echo ^[[H^[[J}`, where each `^[` represents the escape character entered by pressing `Ctrl+[`. 22:17
It's still a mystery though why the escape sequence works but `qx{cls}` doesn't. 22:21
`say ^[[H^[[J` works too... (again, `^[` aren't literal characters but they represent the escape character entered with `Ctrl` + `[`)
I finally figured it out. In Powershell and cmd, to insert the escape character, press `Ctrl` + `[`. So, to clear the REPL, run `qx{echo ^[[H^[[J}`, where each `^[` represents the escape character entered by pressing `Ctrl` + `[`. 22:25
`say "\e[H\e[J"` works too 22:32
which is much better than pressing `Ctrl` + `[` 22:33

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