This channel is intended for people just starting with the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). Logs are available at irclogs.raku.org/raku-beginner/live.html
Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022.
00:27 Kaiepi left
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien Is there a problem with this tutorial? Im sure i typed it correctly but i get an error about using * split * on the string 3 : 0 00:41
docs.raku.org/language/101-basics
It's this line that gives an error : ```  my ($r1, $r2)          = $result.split(':');```
Is there a problem with this tutorial? Im sure i typed it correctly but i get an error about using *split* on the string 3 : 0
gfldex <@438903654796361729> there is a bug indeed. 00:51
m:``` 00:55
# start by printing out the header.
say "Tournament Results:\n";
my $file = q:to/■/;
Beth Ana Charlie Dave
Ana Dave | 3:0
Charlie Beth | 3:1
Ana Beth | 2:3
Dave Charlie | 3:0
Ana Charlie | 3:1
Beth Dave | 0:3
■
my @names = $file.lines.head.words; # ... get players.
dd @names;
my %matches;
my %sets;
for $file.lines.tail(*-1) -> $line {
next unless $line; # ignore any empty lines
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Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien Idk. Is the typo on the page? 01:39
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Zephyr what's the error? 07:10
tio.run/##bVPLbtswELzzKyaJCtt1rUQO...m3wJzUtHVl
the standalone code gldex gave works fine for reference
m: 07:12
my ($a, $b) = "3:0".split(":");
say $a;
say $b;
^``` 07:13
my ($a, $b) = "3:0".split(":");
say $a;
say $b;```(deleted my message thinking bot didn't reply when it was slow)
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien hmm i'll have to recreate it on this debian machine. but it didnt' like the split statement 07:33
hmm. copying the files straight away it does produce the same output 07:35
i couldn't detect any typos though before. so i'm not sure the problem
Nemokosch lol, that stop symbol for EOF is so cute 😄 07:36
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien i can't remember the message exactly but it said split had wrong arguments or something and listed them 07:41
which confused me because $pairing and $result are literally both defined at the same time so it didn't make sense one of them could have split called on it and the othe rnot
which confused me because $pairing and $result are literally both defined at the same time so it didn't make sense one of them could have split called on it and the other not
i remember specifically checking for mispellings too. heh. 07:43
Nemokosch I hope $*IN is a file handle...
hooray
it seems to work on this tio page 07:44
the only thing I changed is the file - I defined it as $*IN 07:45
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien can raku get confounded by invisible characters? like it won't halt but continue in a bad state?
Nemokosch I don't know...
what was the error message, though?
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien CAnnot resolve caller split(Any:U, Str:D); Routine doe snot have any candidates. Is only the proto defined? in block <unit> at test.raku line 13 07:48
Cannot resolve caller split(Any:U, Str:D); Routine does not have any candidates. Is only the proto defined? in block <unit> at test.raku line 13
typed by hand since i don't have discord on the tablet
if there's a typo i literally cannot see it. 07:50
i'm comparing them on the tablet vs my pc and they look identical 07:51
Nemokosch it seems that split was called on a missing value
I copied the files to my WSL(2) environment and that also worked 07:53
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien maybe there's something wrong with my tablet 07:54
it says the same raku version
v6.d
well now. apparently if i restore the line saying **next unless $line;** it eliminates the error 07:57
but on my pc i don't get an error whether that line is commented or no.
Nemokosch I don't know if you know this but v6.d is very broad, it's more like a protocol than a version 07:58
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien well. dpkg isn't any more specific. it just says 2020.12+dfsg-1
Nemokosch yeah well I'm not saying this is the reason of the error - because the example itself might be older
but I think that's a seriously outdated version 08:00
that you better not use if you have options
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien my pc is debian 11.3... and the tablet 11.5. that's all i got
well yeah but i'm using debian. kind of par for the course
Nemokosch I mean debian is fine; the APT sources are outdated
I'm not sure anybody takes care of APT sources
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien ah ok debian testing has a more updated version from this year
apt is part of debian though...?
anyway. is it possible that somehow these two debians were compiling rakudo slightly differently to produce a difference 08:02
does removing that line produce an error for you?
Nemokosch well, it would make some sense
do you understand that line?
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien yeah it's advancing the loop
i just don't get what the error means or why it would triggered by that
Nemokosch okay moment, the version upgrade is stuck in my head 😅 08:04
cloudsmith.io/~nxadm-pkgs/repos/ra...ormats-deb I haven't used these native packages but they are maintained by El_Che (by IRC name)
Another way is (what I am using) is to use `rakubrew` which is like a wrapper on top of building Rakudo bundles and it can handle multiple installed versions with different backends blabla 08:06
rakubrew.org/
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien hmm. is that like home brew on macos
where it downloads compiles and puts everything in different directories
Nemokosch I would think so
and perlbrew in particular
Anyway, these are good options imo if you want latest implementations 08:08
back to ` next unless $line; # ignore any empty lines`
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yeah the comment is descriptive here... let me try what happens without 08:09
like tbh an 'empty line' shouldn't be Any:U still 08:10
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien well. do i need anything other than the c compiler and make to build rakudo?
i already ran out of space on this vm image
Nemokosch oops lol
I don't know, I didn't need to install anything when I once built the rakudo-star bundle from source, on Ubuntu
I can imagine Perl is used somewhere
well maybe you could check the deb package by El_Che, then 08:12
yeah absolutely didn't break without
which is not even surprising because my input file had no empty lines
(the example data had no empty lines)
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien yeah rakubrew downloads a huge perl script which runs i guess to somehow build rakudo 08:17
lol this is some script. it has a long comment about using perl to abstract away different directories you have in your $HOME folder like videos, documents, local program data, etc 08:20
Nemokosch that makes quite a lot of sense actually 08:21
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien well that's what a 30k line file that is totally cross-platform does i guess
Nemokosch yeah
because it tries to work on Windows and Mac so it's not at all trivial
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien i feel like perl has the most massive repository of modules and software in general, not just for cross-platform 08:22
so replacing it, even by its own successor, will be challenging
anyway i think this is far enough outside the area of just learning raku. heh 08:24
thanks for the help
i'll have to remake this vm image and put perl on it to do rakubrew efficiently
Nemokosch Yeah, you know... yesterday I re-read some articles about Perl and its "wasted future" 08:26
I don't know the details or how different people felt about the stagnation of Perl with no definite future. In 2000, I was meant to sing songs and learn to tie my shoes 08:27
What I can see and conclude from those articles is that 1. Perl in 2022 is completely unappealing to new projects 2. the Perl community got overly obsessed with backwards compatibility, perhaps partially because of the Perl 6 incident 08:29
Perl is an excellent toolset for cross-platform scripting and will be magnitudes better than Shell implementations even in 2050 08:31
But if you ask me, it's an insult to the programming world that Shell languages count as programming languages at all so it's not a high tally 08:33
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien by 'shell' do you mean dynamic?
Nemokosch I mean Ksh, Bash and all that jazz
the POSIX /bin/sh
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien well. even those have their cross-platform problems. subtle differences in system utilities like sed or what not
Nemokosch Of course
But most importantly they are horrible as langauges 08:34
But most importantly they are horrible as languages
Esteemed Immortal Doctor Tien also it's strange that perl would be the ultimate cross-platform language. i thought that was supposed to be java or c# or something 08:35
does rakudo aim to be cross-platform as well?
Nemokosch Yes
It's just, you know... because of the lack of resources (mainly human resources), not everything is well-tested
Also, think about it the following way 08:37
I like Terminal::LineEditor and Terminal work of japhb in general
they tend to depend on termios
now, termios is a POSIX standard
it has no proper Windows port
so now is it cross-platform or not?
Kaiepi raku tui is kind of sad w/o raw input
like, character-by-character input, no line discipline 08:39
it's comparable to java in that sense? 08:41
Nemokosch Oh yeah, I wanted to respond to this
Java is not a scripting language. You might remember that Javascript was advertised as a less serious version for scripting 08:42
Kaiepi in the sense that you're stuck with ffi if you want raw input 08:43
Nemokosch why do you want raw input?
Kaiepi it's nice for games and stuff 08:44
Nemokosch You mean Turbo Pascal crt unit style? 😄 08:45
Good old ReadKey and ClrScr
sorry folks but the ultimate cross-platform language was Turbo Pascal all along...
Kaiepi something along those lines, yeah 08:47
Nemokosch Do you think it would be better to expose raw input, if possible? 08:48
oh yeah, one more. The way Perl and Java/C# are cross-platform is very different 08:49
Java and C# (.NET) are like "implement this VM, who cares how, and then you get to translate your code to that VM" 08:51
Perl is, if I'm right, written around C 08:52
so the cross-platformness comes from the availability of C across platforms
I'd say even Perl does a bit better with POSIX systems than Windows 08:54
Kaiepi there's a lot of platform-dependent grossness in raw input in general, so not as a whole. something like forth-standard.org/standard/facility/EKEY would help a lot 08:55
there's a lot of platform-dependent grossness in raw input in general, so not as a whole. something like forth-standard.org/standard/facility/KEY would help a lot
Nemokosch forth 🥺
do you use Forth? 08:56
Kaiepi a little bit
Nemokosch I studied it for a little while, around 5 years ago 08:57
But I basically failed to use it on PC in any meaningful way
what do you use it for?
Kaiepi i try to do the perl weekly challenge in it sometimes when its problems are stack-friendly. otherwise i have the same problem 😛 08:58
Nemokosch And you know, the irony. gforth depends on C when in theory I'd say C is a higher-level langauge 09:00
And you know, the irony. gforth depends on C when in theory I'd say C is a higher-level language
When we had a few lab classes with microcontrollers at the university, I realized that was the real territory where Forth could shine
there are some microcontrollers and implementations like Mecrisp Forth iirc
because C does feel kinda like a PC-ish language, assuming registers, memory allocation, etc 09:02
I've read it about Forth that it's one advantage that it doesn't require any operating system, it can act like the operating system itself
with much more direct use of the resources
C mostly hides the stack; in forth, most of the time you don't need variables on the stack because you can just manipulate it directly 09:04
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