vrurg .tell patrickb The idea of raku binary is implemented and will be in the next release. I'd like to ask you to take care of PERL6_HOME and track down all of its use and naming, if possible. 01:12
tellable6 vrurg, I'll pass your message to patrickb
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Geth_ rakudo: Kaiepi++ created pull request #3319:
Make a couple improvements to Metamodel::Naming
rakudo: vrurg++ created pull request #3320:
Change perl5 to Perl
rakudo/configure-rebuild-all: f6c93ef7ba | (Vadim Belman)++ | 2 files
Add --force-rebuild command line option

Forces rebuild of all required components like NQP and, possibly, MoarVM. --force-rebuild tries to pretend we're building in an empty or almost empty environment. I.e.:
perl Configure.pl --backends=moar --gen-nqp --force-rebuild ... (6 more lines)
rakudo/configure-rebuild-all: 8e51400f7d | (Vadim Belman)++ | 3rdparty/nqp-configure
nqp-configure submodule update
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nine patrickb: well I've always said that packaging star for Linux distros doesn't make sense. Nevertheless people seem to have done that (IIRC), so I'm a bit conflicted. But certainly much less opposed than to rakudo source release renaming. 07:21
tellable6 nine, I'll pass your message to patrickb
Geth_ rakudo: 9528bd05fc | (Vadim Belman)++ | t/harness6
Change perl5 to Perl in help message

The option name is not changed to not possibly break 3rd party tools.
rakudo: da03d103fe | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | t/harness6
Merge pull request #3320 from vrurg/cleanup-perl5-name

  [WIP] Change perl5 to Perl
rakudo: dabf83a2a7 | (Ben Davies)++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/Naming.nqp
Prevent NQPMu from getting returned by Metamodel::Naming methods
rakudo: 88741d94cd | (Ben Davies)++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/Naming.nqp
Lazily set type shortnames

When setting the name of a type, its shortname would get set at the same time, but this is work that doesn't need to be done until the shortname metamethod gets called.
This makes creating a new role named "Foo::Bar[Baz::Qux[Quux]]" around 5% faster.
rakudo: 9fa4396f61 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | src/Perl6/Metamodel/Naming.nqp
Merge pull request #3319 from Kaiepi/naming

Make a couple improvements to Metamodel::Naming
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|Tux| Rakudo version 2019.07.1-497-g9fa4396f6 - MoarVM version 2019.07.1-321-g97615be0a
csv-ip5xs0.714 - 0.724
csv-ip5xs-206.361 - 6.608
csv-parser21.426 - 21.486
csv-test-xs-200.427 - 0.431
test6.299 - 6.482
test-t1.741 - 1.747
test-t --race0.899 - 0.930
test-t-2028.380 - 30.382
test-t-20 --race9.277 - 9.422
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AlexDaniel lizmat: I don't know what happened 10:51
but I'm not missing the opportunity this time
jnthn AlexDaniel: Nice! 10:58
tellable6 2019-11-23T12:12:06Z #raku-dev <tbrowder> jnthn any objections to PR #3310?
2019-11-23T21:12:19Z #raku-dev <vrurg> jnthn Just would like to remind you to review final changes in R#3199 and R#3272 when you have time. Sorry for bothering, but 3199 is rather big and I'd like to avoid possible merge conflicts.
2019-11-24T04:07:24Z #raku-dev <vrurg> jnthn Also, would you mind enabling `$.method: <arguments>` call syntax? It's pretty simple grammar fix in R#3317 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/3317
jnthn Uff.
AlexDaniel jnthn: yeah, it was a rollercoaster
jnthn spent almost the whole weekend with a headache, which wasn't ideal for...well, anything really...
AlexDaniel here's what happened: there was a user with nickname raku, and liz asked them if they will agree to change it to something else 10:59
and they did!
but we didn't notice
a real fail on our side, yeah
then, when we *did* notice, it was already registered by somebody 11:00
I don't know what happened then, but I was F5-ing relatively often
btw here's this awesome kind person who agreed to change their username: github.com/rakucmr/
jnthn That's very kind of them 11:01
AlexDaniel++ lizmat++ 11:02
lizmat AlexDaniel++ :-) 11:03
AlexDaniel if you want to start a new repo please do it in the new org 11:07
I'll get to thinking about transferring stuff later after the release
I guess we'll start with a few repos and see how it goes
I invited all perl6 owners to Raku org 11:08
btw if anybody wants to bikeshed github.com/Raku vs github.com/raku please do it now :D 11:09
it's Raku currently
sena_kun AlexDaniel, "Raku" plz 11:10
jnthn I can't be R-sed to bikeshed this... :P 11:11
AlexDaniel weekly: we have github.com/Raku ! Big thanks to github.com/rakucmr/ for letting us use Raku by changing their username ♥♥♥
notable6 AlexDaniel, Noted! (weekly)
AlexDaniel but it was /perl6 ! 11:12
not Perl6 :)
jnthn If you rename it to raku, then back to Raku, then do we get a redirect raku => Raku for anyone who types it wrong? :)
AlexDaniel jnthn: github doesn't care, both Raku and raku work, it's just what github will put by default in links 11:13
jnthn Oh, intersting... github.com/raku
Yeah, just noticed :)
Wonder how I missed that for years...works for /moarvm too :)
AlexDaniel rba: here? I need help verifying raku.org domain on github 11:21
lizmat AlexDaniel: what do you need?
AlexDaniel a TXT record in DNS
lizmat ah, I used to do DNS for raku.org, but no more... 11:22
rba AlexDaniel: here? yes. 11:23
AlexDaniel pm-ed :) 11:26
rba: done, thanks! 11:28
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AlexDaniel jmerelo: btw nobody besides you and a few other people have any privs to the doc repo 11:59
and that's the reason assigns dropped
you need to invite people to the org, e.g. those who work on the doc repo the most 12:00
jmerelo I think org owners get it by default
But I can do that, of course. I'll create a team to take care of that, instead of doing it by repo. That way I can add it to other repos such as Documentable.
AlexDaniel sure, thanks 12:02
please don't transfer any other big repo yet, like roast and other stuff
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AlexDaniel at the very least I want all owners to accept invites, as well as probably other main contributors 12:03
jmerelo AlexDaniel Wasn't gonna 12:04
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jmerelo AlexDaniel Travis-ci.com is activated by default in all repositories now: travis-ci.com/organizations/Raku/repositories 12:06
BTW, the old "perl6" organization is also called "Raku" and has exactly the same logo. I don't know if I have the privs, but maybe we should change something about it to make it less confusing
Like Raku (a.k.a Perl6) or something like that 12:07
I have the privs, apparently.
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AlexDaniel camelia with a suitcase? :) 12:10
jmerelo Hm 12:12
" Profile name contains unicode characters above 0xffff " 12:13
Changed to Raku ⚠ 12:14
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rba May we please NOT move repos from perl6 org to raku org in github without prior message. With the repos for the websites which auto-update from repo, this unlikely to work without manual intervention on the webhosting system. 12:25
jmerelo rba: OK. Not the case for docs, I guess, right? 12:26
rba jmerelo: Yes as you updload the build yourself, you sit in the drivers seat for docs from the webhosting side. 12:28
jmerelo rba: we need to change that, anyway, but we'll do that already with the new repo. 12:29
rba But my message is, that repo moves must be coordinated as links to repos might be at unknown places too...
jmerelo Sure :+1: 12:30
AlexDaniel I changed the logo github.com/perl6 :) 12:44
yeah I didn't expect anyone to move any repo yet…
lizmat :-) 12:45
jmerelo AlexDaniel: that sweet. 12:52
(that's sweet, I meant to say)
rba AlexDaniel++ 12:54
rba very much likes the logo on github.com/perl6
AlexDaniel rba: my irc client is acting weird, don't know if you received the message, but: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_lo...2019-11-25 12:58
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lizmat notable6: weekly 14:01
notable6 lizmat, 6 notes: gist.github.com/48312a7aa6b318b44e...4cd9055cd0
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Guest38485 lizmat: MoarVM was released last week ... 14:10
lizmat yeah, but after the weekly
Guest38485 But won't there be a new Weekly Today?
lizmat ah, yes, sorry, misunderstood 14:11
yes, it will be mentioned
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Guest38485 Cool, I guess the rest is up to AlexDaniel 14:11
lizmat yeah, no pressure :-) 14:12
AlexDaniel Guest38485: your! username! please!
.seen [Cok]e
tellable6 AlexDaniel, I haven't seen [Cok]e around, did you mean [Coke]?
AlexDaniel hmmm weird, I thought it'd automatically get it 14:13
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vrurg m: class Foo { method foo(|c) { say c.perl } }; Foo.new.foo: ; 14:28
camelia \()
vrurg m: class Foo { method foo(|c) { say c.perl } }; Foo.new.foo:; 14:29
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
at <tmp>:1
------> 3d foo(|c) { say c.perl } }; Foo.new.foo:7⏏5;
expecting any of:
colon pair
vrurg jnthn: ^ perhaps it makes sense to consider ; as a valid symbol to follow the colon?
lizmat: please, don't merge WIP PRs. The last one was almost ok, but I also wanted to fix the --version output with it. 14:33
lizmat did I miss the WIP ?
ARGH, I did, sorry 14:34
note to self: if it has a yellow label, don't merge!
vrurg: again, sorry... 14:35
vrurg lizmat: NP. :)
Perhaps makes sense to change the color to something more alerting? 14:36
jnthn vrurg: I don't see why we'd allow `$foo.bar:;`; why write an arg colon if you won't put args?
vrurg jnthn: only to reduce confusion with working `$foo.bar: ;` 14:37
Otherwise no reason at all.
But then, again, we could as well consider ), }, etc., etc... So, just a whitespace then. 14:38
Geth rakudo/master: 4 commits pushed by (Vadim Belman)++ 14:39
jnthn I'm a bit concerned about the new collision with invocant syntax, though. Hmm. 14:40
I always forget about the indirect object syntax. I never use it.
vrurg jnthn: It's the same problem one would get into with `foo self.bar: ;' 14:41
If Blin would report a problem in the ecosystem with this change I would make it 6.e specific then. Before then it doesn't make sense for extra slow down of the grammar. 14:42
jnthn Well, today I guess if we write `foo $!x: 42;` and then refactor it into `foo $.x: 42` then things keep working, and we'd be breaking that. 14:43
vrurg But really, this is a rather exotic syntax. I don't expect it to be used at all. 14:46
[Coke] yawns. 15:00
vrurg [Coke]: don't spread it around! :D 15:04
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AlexDaniel [Coke]: you have nothing to do? I can give you a task :D 15:24
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[Coke] Ha. 15:30
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patrickb o/ 15:32
tellable6 2019-11-25T01:12:06Z #raku-dev <vrurg> patrickb The idea of raku binary is implemented and will be in the next release. I'd like to ask you to take care of PERL6_HOME and track down all of its use and naming, if possible.
hey patrickb, you have a message: gist.github.com/35767d4d248d3f98f4...74f8eda69b
patrickb github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/84...996d4abf81 wrt that commit. Shouldn't it be --raku-home instead of --rakudo-home, just as the RAKU_HOME env variable? (They were called --perl6-home and PERL6_HOME previously) 15:33
lizmat patrickb: I would argue that PERL6_HOME was actually wrong in the light of multiple implementations ? 15:34
patrickb There was a discussion what to call them when they were initially introduced and the decision was to call them PERL6_HOME instead of RAKUDO_HOME back then.
lizmat link?
patrickb lizmat: I try to find it. 15:35
vrurg patrickb: I think it must be RAKUDO_HOME, after all. It is a compiler-specific feature and it points into Rakudo installation. Contrary to RAKU_LIB which could point to a inter-compiler repository. 15:37
patrickb colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_lo...01-07#l266
^-- that was the discussion that I think led to the decision. 15:38
I think we should decide this before the release, otherwise we'll have more back compat to look out for. 15:42
vrurg patrickb: but currently we have some rakudo-specific stuff in the dir, don't we?
patrickb The way it is now is: --rakudo-home and RAKU_HOME. One of the two is definitely wrong, as they essentially point to the same folder. 15:43
vrurg: Yes we do.
vrurg Then it's RAKUDO_HOME.
As to the backcompat issue: we can support to envvars, np with this. But the directory name would be a hard point to change. 15:45
patrickb That should be changed before the release. I might have time late in the evening.
What's the default directory name atm? 15:46
vrurg patrickb: Let's plan it for the next release, not this one.
The directory name migration would require some discussion, perhaps. It'd take time to plan. 15:47
patrickb Are we ok with not being back compatible with the wrong names of the upcoming release?
The paths are still called perl6. That's ok. 15:48
vrurg BTW, I have already put RAKU_HOME into the sources. :(
AlexDaniel I mean… if you want to change it, you still can 15:49
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patrickb That's why I asked about back compat, because we are about to release with a wrong name in there. The folder is still named perl6 though, so no need for immediate action there. 15:49
vrurg AlexDaniel: I was about to ask it. How much time do I have for this? Need to go now. 15:50
patrickb AlexDaniel: I can only do it late in the evening :-/
vrurg AlexDaniel: or you can do it. It's quick change in src/main.nqp. One line.
vrurg is afk&, likely for long... 15:51
patrickb vrurg: One moement...
AlexDaniel lizmat really wanted to announce the release in the weekly :)
lizmat no worries...
patrickb you asked me to have a look at all the RAKU_HOME usages and make sre they are ok. Now the change seems to go into the release
how tested is this? 15:52
lizmat AlexDaniel: patrickb has a point, so let's make sure we get this right
vrurg AlexDaniel: then, pls, change main.nqp for me? :)
AlexDaniel lizmat: yeah, personally I'm not in a hurry
vrurg patrickb: It's just an alias to PERL6_HOME.
patrickb: not a replacement. So, things are not going to break except that RAKUDO_HOME would have a priority over PERL6_HOME. 15:53
vrurg is gone.
patrickb vrurg: OK. That's a relief.
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patrickb That same RAKU_HOME -> RAKUDO_HOME change also needs to go into perl6_debug.nqp. 15:56
nine And that is precicely why we should not allow any features to go in once we branched for a release. 15:59
For any reason. At all.
This release is 3 months late already. Once consequence I personally care about: our developers at work waiting for 45 seconds after a change for our app to start up and be ready for testing instead of just 4 (!) 16:02
patrickb nine: That's inline::perl5 killing precomp, right? 16:03
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nine yes 16:03
patrickb same on a work project here
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nine So why don't we just revert the features that went in way too late and fix them without stress and with enough time to properly test them so they can go into the next release - which is just a month away? 16:10
[Coke] I haven't been following the commits, but I thought there was a release branch - were things going in on that release branch? 16:16
nine yes
[Coke] That seems incorrect to me. I agree with nine, let's get a release out. 16:17
... I shouldn't say "let's" since I'm not doing anything but sitting in my chair here, but.. 16:18
patrickb +1 on the revert 16:21
have to go...
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Geth ¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel assigned to jnthn Issue Release manager for Rakudo 2019.12 and onward github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/132 16:37
AlexDaniel nine: I don't know if 2019.12 is exactly one month away given the situation, but thanks for the feedback :) 16:38
lizmat: maybe this should be mentioned in the weekly (I don't know if enough people follow the problem-solving repo): github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/132 16:40
nine AlexDaniel: my guess is that doing a release is much less work when we actually do it every month. And to make that work, we really need to be strict on feature freeze.
AlexDaniel nine: I don't think it's currently less work to do it every month, but I think it will be once we get regular Blin runs and perhaps other automation in place 16:41
nine AlexDaniel: certainly not in total, but each individual release should be less work 16:42
AlexDaniel but then, my perspective is of someone who is very tired :) 16:43
Altai-man_: if you still feel like it, consider leaving a comment :) github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/132 16:49
Altai-man_ AlexDaniel, I am thinking about that, yes... Given that my paper is kind of finished... I'll think about it. :) 16:51
AlexDaniel, I also need to read the release guide carefully to understand in details what is required / expected. 16:54
AlexDaniel "Update Rakudo’s leap-second tables:" 16:56
I had not a single leap second
[Coke] AlexDaniel: thanks for doing it for so long. I did several up to Christmas, and definitely hit a wall at some point. 16:59
so I totally get it.
AlexDaniel I think I've hit it a long time ago, I was just hoping someone will come and propose to take over :) 17:02
I did more than one release while I was neck deep working on my thesis, I'm actually surprised by that
.oO( Current thesis depth: NECK )
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AlexDaniel it's a done deal now, I defended in June :) 17:15
[Coke] Congrats? 17:18
AlexDaniel it's old news but thanks :) 17:24
any special notes for this release? 17:29
should we mention Raku something?
dogbert17 m: my $b = buf8.new; $b.write-uint64(-1,1,BigEndian); say $b # is this supposed to work? 17:35
camelia MVMArray: Index out of bounds
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
dogbert17 lizmat ^^ 17:40
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[Coke] If we haven't had a release since the rename, yes, we should mention it. 17:50
I'd include an "in progress" so people don't give us crap if they find a Perl 6 or two still out there. 17:51
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vrurg AlexDaniel: can I change RAKU_HOME for the release yet? 18:05
AlexDaniel vrurg: sure?
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vrurg AlexDaniel: it is rakudo-specific thing. Besides, it's only an alias to PERL6_HOME. 18:06
AlexDaniel c: dbc871c0 say 42 18:07
committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦dbc871c: «Cannot find this revision (did you mean “0e4b8cc”?)»
AlexDaniel vrurg: I removed a mention of a commit that doesn't exist: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Chan...d64a823e5d 18:10
that's why releasable6 was complaining
I don't know where you took that hash from
it's not in rakudo, nqp or moarvm…
vrurg Really... Nothing even close to it. Can't remember for now, of course. 18:13
Ok, I'm pushing RAKUDO_HOME.
AlexDaniel: if you don't mind 18:14
AlexDaniel do it and we'll see where we stand after that 18:15
Geth rakudo/release-2019.11: 24abab8afd | (Vadim Belman)++ | 2 files

Because it's where Rakudo-specific stuff can be found. So, consider it compiler-related thing.
Also, lower its priority over `PERL6_HOME` for now, as we're in the early transition stage yet.
vrurg is away again. 18:17
lizmat dogbert17: do you mean that it should check for a negative offset ? 18:25
dogbert17 lizmat: it was the example you used here: M#1022 18:47
i.e. github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/issues/1022
lizmat ah, yes, now I remember 18:48
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lizmat and another Rakudo Weekly News hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2019/11/25/2019-...-again-or/ 19:02
AlexDaniel lizmat++ 19:24
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AlexDaniel lizmat: can you take a look at this? github.com/perl6/problem-solving/b...perl6_home 20:59
and the latest commit
I don't want to be picky or anything… but it doesn't really match 21:00
lizmat yeah, looks like an error in the PR :-(
AlexDaniel lizmat: which PR? 21:01
lizmat the path to raku PR ?
AlexDaniel ah
lizmat the PR introduced that file 21:02
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AlexDaniel [Coke]: you often appear as “Will "Coke" Coleda” and “Will Coleda”, it's likely you have two different configs on different machines 22:00
[Coke]: it could also be your github name vs git config 22:01
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[Coke] Yup. 22:05
That's why we have the CREDITS file, to clean up bad users like me. 22:06
Is it causing a problem?
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AlexDaniel [Coke]: not exactly a problem… I've been correcting it every release manually… 22:10
but, I mean, the amount of time it took me to write that message is probably more than it took me to correct it for all releases… 22:12
[Coke] Correct it how? 22:19
I thought we had things looking at the CREDITS file even back in 2015. 22:20
AlexDaniel I just remove “Will Coleda”, once is enough :)
[Coke] (also, I haven't committed anything anywhere in a few months, I didn't think.)
AlexDaniel [Coke]: even if it does look, how is it going to help? github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/f608...#L858-L860
it feels like it just stumbles upon “Will Coleda” and includes it as is 22:21
or is it supposed to match by email?
Geth rakudo/release-2019.11: 1d1ce7c6c9 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | tools/create-release-announcement.p6
Rakufy release announcement generation
AlexDaniel weekly: btw we just hit 32k commits in rakudo 22:25
notable6 AlexDaniel, Noted! (weekly)
Geth rakudo/release-2019.11: 97515a0545 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | 2 files
Log all changes (+ announcement)

Deliberately not logged:
99e60a22 085ed2f5 8728730e cde40557 ee584d29 0eee9a95 84b3e9fd c4e80486 1fef7838 26696e49 6e24ad57 21655061 6fff0c03 a830b15c 82405159 7a0bfd4f 93d3b3f6 b58b3b91 9b214033 7d8cba1c d6985fd6 ... (45 more lines)
rakudo/release-2019.11: 04ad32390b | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | docs/release_guide.pod
Actual date, and *not* claiming the next release!

See github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/132
AlexDaniel some proofreading can help! github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/9751...2019.11.md 22:31
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tbrowder yay! looks good at first scan 22:50
vrurg AlexDaniel: 'Added nqp::p6client*' rather belongs to internals section. 22:58
AlexDaniel vrurg: you can just move it :) 23:10
vrurg Didn't want to mess with your work without premission.
AlexDaniel vrurg: just copy-paste the relevant section into the changelog too 23:11
otherwise you can do all kinds of changes
I'll go to bed soon, lizmat will get back tomorrow about the discrepancy with the path to raku document 23:12
vrurg AlexDaniel: anyway, great work! And g'night!
Geth rakudo/release-2019.11: d74773b9dc | (Vadim Belman)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | docs/announce/2019.11.md
Move an item to the appropriate section

  "Add `nqp::p6client*` ...` rather belongs to Internals.
rakudo/release-2019.11: d4bc6783f9 | (Vadim Belman)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | docs/ChangeLog
Move "Add `nqp::p6client*`...` item to the Internals section