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nine | releasable6: status | 07:29 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
releasable6 | nine, Next release will happen when it's ready. 3 blockers. 166 out of 355 commits logged (⚠ 3 warnings) | 07:30 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine, Details: gist.github.com/1a61932ffc62240520...7221babcb9 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | Funny how a week ago I said that none of the release blockers look like something I'd work on, yet I fixed one anyway and have a proposed fix for another. Guess that shows that: | 07:34 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
* you should never exclude a goal from the outset. Whatever the circumstances (like a bug only affecting Windows which I'm not interested in at all), nothing is really impossible. | 07:35 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
moritz | * you're pretty versatile :D | 07:36 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | * it's very dangerous to fall into the "jnthn will fix it" trap. Yes he can and will fix everything - on an infinite time scale. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
There are very few issues that really absolutely require jnthn to fix them. We should really try hard to keep him on those and fix the rest by ourselves. Most bugs will go away if only you bang your head against them long enough. | 07:41 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
moritz | * you're pretty versatile :D | 07:48 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sorry, double-posting by accident | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine++ # banging his head against bugs | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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moritz | hoelzro: github.com/Raku/docker/pull/28 for your pleasure :-) It seems I can now build star 2020.01, and would like to take you up on the offer to walk me through the steps of releasing | 08:27 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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[Tux] | WHAT HAS HAPPENED? | 09:10 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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[Tux] runs again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MasterDuke | [Tux]: might be github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/6f...bccabe614c | 09:18 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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sena_kun | [Tux], yesterday's commit has disabled inlining of particular op, alas it is a known issue, I think. | 09:33 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | I thought nine re-inlined the dispatcher inlining / JITting ? | 09:42 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
*restored | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | lizmat, not yet? | 09:44 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/mast...plist#L887 <- it is still noinline | 09:45 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | I though b77aa1622390b2f09473d8b846 was it | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
linkable6 | (2020-04-25) github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/b77aa16223 Bring back a fixed JIT building block for nextdispatcherfor | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | ah, JITting vs inlining | 09:46 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | yes | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat, anyway, we have, I suspect, plenty of work other than this for a release. :) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat severely regrets ever having merged the dispatcher code | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | lizmat, people do mistakes, so don't let it let you down. | 09:48 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | yeah, I've learned from that one | 09:49 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
but sometimes I wonder how things would have been had I decided in 2012 to just retire, rather then getting involved again | 09:50 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
only sometimes, though :-) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | Complexity, complexity... | 09:52 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
How do I search if the module is on cpan? | 09:56 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
.tell AlexDaniel gist.github.com/Altai-man/3eee8d3c...778575c623 <- this is the yesterday's blin. There are still odd false positives, new log starts with "The following candidates are already installed:" and then it contains failure which was long time fixed on module master. | 09:59 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tellable6 | sena_kun, I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
patrickb | o/ | 10:02 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tellable6 | hey patrickb, you have a message: gist.github.com/f62dc72d0e924ea9d2...c88df1dfdb | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Geth | ¦ rakudo: Altai-man assigned to lizmat Issue Blin 2020.04, round 1 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/3645 | 10:03 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
patrickb | .tell pamplemousse It's nice reading from you again! Welcome back! I've now read through all your module related blog posts. I've now got a clearer picture of the state of things. | 10:04 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tellable6 | patrickb, I'll pass your message to pamplemousse | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | hmmm... looks like we lost Geth | 10:06 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | Not so many regressions, nice. Now torturing stresstest... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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lizmat | 5610764374b975516394f5 | 10:06 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
linkable6 | (2020-04-26) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5610764374 Revert "Simplify iterator of Cool values" | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
patrickb | .tell pamplemousse I'd like to have running precompiled scripts work exactly like running non-precompiled scripts. I think that's a nice intermediate step for the work on packaged executables. | 10:07 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tellable6 | patrickb, I'll pass your message to pamplemousse | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
patrickb | .tell pamplemousse Please keep us updated what you are working on, so we don't do duplicate work. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tellable6 | patrickb, I'll pass your message to pamplemousse | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | Yeah, the performance regression is regrettable :/ But I don't think we've ever opted for "buggier but faster", have we? | 10:17 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | nine: but going from 2.0 to 2.8 is.... a *lot* | 10:20 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I know it's only a single benchmark... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | Oh I'm pretty sure it hurts us across the board | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | but this doesn't bode well for a lot of production cases either ? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
so, before this work, arguably it was less correct (for some definition), but it had been a long standing issue | 10:21 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
like there are quite a number of long-standing issues | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
and I'm not convinced that now being more correct *this way* warrants the performance loss | 10:22 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
so, what did the dispatcher work fix that needed to be fixed so badly that we lose so much performance? | 10:23 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
especially in the light of jnthn looking at fixing this a completely other way? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | I'm pretty sure we don't want the regression caused by the initial fix. So it's either defering the release until jnthn's dispatcher work is ready and stable (could be months), or taking the performance hit, or backing out all the next-dispatcher work (which is non-trivial) | 10:24 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | lizmat, I don't think this can be simply reverted to "buggy but usual speed". | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I've asked yesterday if the penalty still (was) a thing and apparently it is, so I would not release this way. To keep master ready - that's cool. | 10:25 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | well, I don't like the prospect of 1 (no releases for months) or 2 (taking the performance hit) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
so it feels to me that 3. is the only option we should be looking at | 10:26 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
unfortunately :-( | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | lizmat, can you please check stresstest on 6.c-errata? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | Personally, I'm totally open to reverting the next-dispatcher stuff. My initial look at it just showed that reverting is quite a bit of work in itself, as this was a largish branch spread out over quite some time. And IIRC vrurg has some code requiring this fix | 10:27 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | sena_kun: running it now | 10:28 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | lizmat, thanks! Want to confirm if t/spec/S32-str/encode behaves funny only for me or not. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[Tux] |
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10:35 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
just as bad | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | [Tux]: noted :-( | 10:39 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun: ===SORRY!=== | 10:43 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
chr codepoint 16777215 (0xFFFFFF) is out of bounds | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
other than that: a massive amount of TODO's that passed :-) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | lizmat, I wonder why I can't trigger it with `z t S32-str/encode.t`. | 10:44 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
github.com/Raku/roast/blob/master/...r/encode.t latest commit is November. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | 80dde85a665e1b9979bfe | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
linkable6 | (2020-03-26) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/80dde85a66 Tweak chr out of range error output | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | So I am really confused why it isn't broken on roast master, but broken on same file, but on different branch. | 10:45 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | well, if I remove the two lines with the "\x[FFFFFF]" codepoint, the test passes | 10:48 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
m: "\x[FFFFFF]" | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
camelia | ===SORRY!=== chr codepoint 16777215 (0xFFFFFF) is out of bounds |
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sena_kun | oooh | 10:49 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
github.com/Raku/roast/commit/1e1b9...36ef11c692 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | bisectable6: say "\x[FFFFFF]" | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bisectable6 | lizmat, Bisecting by exit signal (old=2015.12 new=5610764). Old exit signal: 11 (SIGSEGV) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat, bisect log: gist.github.com/1fc47cf2e952ba1bce...4f0a5fde3b | 10:50 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat, (2016-03-09) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e1...8dbc8531e9 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | lizmat, I think jnthn's commit just uncovered this problem. I guess I'm cherry-picking 1e1b9c0db02a142526ae75318131fbf21a1d410e to 6.c-errata. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | bisectable6: old=2020.01 say "\x[FFFFFF]" | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bisectable6 | lizmat, Bisecting by output (old=2020.01 new=5610764) because on both starting points the exit code is 1 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat, bisect log: gist.github.com/8bb2ba3571bf5db774...6be3fe3672 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat, (2020-03-26) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aa...86c95183a9 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | sena_kun: yeah, think that's the right approach :-) | 10:51 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sena_kun | lizmat++, thanks! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Geth | z: 553ec32b16 | Altai-man++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | lib/RDev.pm6 s/perl6/Raku/ in github urls |
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lizmat | looking at a --profile of test-t, it's all very green and very OSR | 11:22 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
so whatever it is slowing down, is at a lower level, which we already knew, but good to see confirmed | 11:23 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I'm wondering what kind of code construct would cause this slower behaviour ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg: could you enlighten us in that respect ? | 11:24 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | >error: GH006: Protected branch update failed for refs/heads/6.c-errata. You're not authorized to push to this branch | 11:39 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Really? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Geth | roast/2020.04-patch-1: 7368901b26 | pmurias++ (committed by Altai-man) | S32-str/encode.t Stop using invalid unicode in a string literal |
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roast: Altai-man++ created pull request #637: Cherry-pick a commit |
11:44 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
roast/6.c-errata: 7368901b26 | pmurias++ (committed by Altai-man) | S32-str/encode.t Stop using invalid unicode in a string literal |
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roast/6.c-errata: 2bf3c317da | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | S32-str/encode.t Merge pull request #637 from Raku/2020.04-patch-1 Cherry-pick a commit |
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lizmat | Altai-man_: no idea why :-( | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | .tell AlexDaniel maybe you have ideas about github.com/Raku/roast/pull/637 ? | 11:48 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tellable6 | Altai-man_, I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | Altai-man_: you are in group Raku no? | 11:49 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | lizmat, sure. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Anyway, enough for this time of a day. Hope everyone can rest this Sunday. I'd anticipate a release after dispatchers overhaul. | 11:51 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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lizmat | Altai-man_: enjoy your day | 12:42 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | lizmat, you too! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | Getting there: `{ use v5-inline; sub foo { "foo!" } }; say ::('&foo')()` will now correctly say foo! | 12:50 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | wow! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | It still claims Undeclared routine when just calling it by say foo() though | 12:51 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | trivialities :-) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | Yeah, just need to find out where else I've got to plug those subs into | 12:52 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
guifa2 | Is there ever a time that Match.to and Match.pos aren't the same? AFAICT testing they're the same | 13:11 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | moritz might know | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I've wondered that myself every now and then :-) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
guifa2 | I also realized that the most important feature of binex is also probably the most complex of the regex feature set: && | 13:13 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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guifa2 | Backtracking on steroids to make sure that each matches the same length | 13:14 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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moritz | have you checked inside look-behind assertions? | 13:22 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
guifa2 | moritz: aaaah that makes sense | 13:23 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
guifa2 hasn't gotten to lookahead/behinds yet in Binex :-) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
moritz | TBH I haven't thought this through, it's just a shot in the dark | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
also, )> maybe | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
m: say 'abc' ~~ / a )> b { say $/.pos; say $/.to } / | 13:24 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
camelia | 2 1 「a」 |
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moritz | hah, found it :D | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
guifa2 | moritz: I may be bugging you more later as polish things up so I can make sure I'm doing everything as close to regex as possible. You've been warned ;-) | 13:26 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
moritz | guifa2: then let me warn you that I've never written a regex engine .D | 13:29 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
guifa2 | moritz: you've not written one but you uh, kinda wrote the book on using them :-) | 13:35 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
moritz | so they say. | 13:55 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | afk for a few hours& | 14:14 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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nine | And now I've got this working as well :) { use v5-inline; sub foo { "foo!" } }; say foo; | 14:59 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
patrickb | o/ pamplemousse | 15:10 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pamplemousse | o/ patrickb | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tellable6 | 2020-04-26T10:04:44Z #raku-dev <patrickb> pamplemousse It's nice reading from you again! Welcome back! I've now read through all your module related blog posts. I've now got a clearer picture of the state of things. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
2020-04-26T10:07:16Z #raku-dev <patrickb> pamplemousse I'd like to have running precompiled scripts work exactly like running non-precompiled scripts. I think that's a nice intermediate step for the work on packaged executables. | 15:11 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
2020-04-26T10:07:58Z #raku-dev <patrickb> pamplemousse Please keep us updated what you are working on, so we don't do duplicate work. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
timotimo | impressive, nine | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | So...after just 5 years Inline::Perl5 can actually do inlined code :D | 15:15 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pamplemousse | It’s nice to be back! It's been a bit; I've been settling into work and post-school life and got a bit bogged down with things. | 15:16 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I just moved and am having a bit of trouble locating my computer, but I’ll hopefully find that while unpacking today and be able to get the executable branch I was working on up to date with the current Rakudo and NQP master branches. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine++, that's really cool | 15:18 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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AlexDaniel | . | 15:34 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tellable6 | 2020-04-26T11:48:09Z #raku-dev <Altai-man_> AlexDaniel maybe you have ideas about github.com/Raku/roast/pull/637 ? | 15:35 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hey AlexDaniel, you have a message: gist.github.com/68f36398b027cbcd10...09de2491e4 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | Altai-man_: your role in the Raku org was “Member” | 15:36 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_: now I changed it to “Owner” | 15:37 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_: I have a feeling that you never had access to do that, surprisingly. The branch was protected for more than a year | 15:39 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
but yeah, obviously not right, should be fixed now, let me know if you have any other access issues | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_: btw you can use `--new=HEAD` | 15:43 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_: that unicode issue is R#3636 | 15:45 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
linkable6 | R#3636 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/3636 [BLOCKER][Unicode] uniname on numerics vs on strs (.chr is now a bit too sensitive?) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | lizmat: now that I've got inline blocks merged, I've released Inline::Perl5 0.48 with your renaming commit :) | 16:04 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | AlexDaniel, odd, I certainly pushed commits there, maybe it was perl6 org, not Raku one. But glad to have it fixes, thanks! | 16:10 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | Altai-man_: I checked, you had the same role in both | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I changed it to Owner in both too, just in case | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Geth | ¦ problem-solving: JJ assigned to AlexDaniel Issue Give Travis.com permission to access raku-community-modules repositories github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues/179 | 16:58 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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lizmat | nine++ | 17:53 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
m: dd 1,2,3 ... { IterationEnd } # should we allow this? Or is this a case of DIHWIDT ? | 17:56 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
camelia | (1,).Seq | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | lizmat: I just came and saw your question. But can't get the context. | 18:07 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | we'er currently not inlining the dispatch stuff anymore, as it apparently borks on WIndows | 18:08 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
this caused test-t to drop from ~2 to ~2.8 seconds | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
and I was wondering what would make test-t so vulnerable to this drop as I don't see that much of a drop in e.g. "make spectest" | 18:09 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | I never dealt with test-t, can't guess what could be the cause. | 18:10 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | it does a lot of postcircumfix:<[ ]> | 18:11 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
in any case, the options now are: 1. release with this performance loss, 2. wait for jnthn to re-design and re-implement dispatch (several months delay) or 3. rip out the new dispatcher stuff you made | 18:13 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
option 1 possibly hurts people using it in production, but 3 may also, right vrurg ? | 18:14 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | I can only think of two possible causes: a lot of calls to tiny functions. Especially, first calls onlystars where it redelegates upstream nextdisaptcher to the first invoked candidate. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | things like "nextsame" and so? | 18:15 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | My code depending on this is not in production. But I'm preparing it for the TPCiC. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat: nextsame doesn't use it directly, it's metamodel dispatching code which needs it to build correct chain of calls. | 18:17 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | are there any significant improvements since the last release? | 18:18 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | changelog draft mentions a few ? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | lizmat: Basically, without proper dispatching I would have to pull out my talk and basically shutdown my Vikna project for indefinite period of time or re-write it for using plain inheritance and no roles whatsoever. | 18:20 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | there's always a lot of small stuff that adds up, but I don't see anything big that stands on its own | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | vrurg: understood | 18:21 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
so I guess it's going to be 2 and not have a release for several months :-( | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MasterDuke | was there some reason we couldn't release from a known-good commit right before the dispatch merge? | 18:22 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | Either option is terrible to me. I wouldn't be able to choose. | 18:23 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | if that's the decision I'll be able to fix whateverable/blin in 1-2 days so that it's possible to test branches | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hmmm why isn't it already doing that btw | 18:33 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lizmat | afk& | 18:34 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | let's see… | 18:35 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
cc44b48b443 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
cc44b48b443066 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hmm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6: cc44b48b443066 say 42 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, ¦cc44b48: «Cannot find this revision (did you mean “fcfd51b”?)» | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | there is a build for that | 18:36 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shareable6: cc44b48b443066 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
shareable6 | AlexDaniel, whateverable.6lang.org/cc44b48b443066 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | yeah except it ignores it altogether | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jnthn | vrurg: Ultimately, Raku performance is hugely dependent on inlining, and anything that blocks that is going to cause significant preformance issues. | 18:51 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg: What's not quite clear to me is why we can't inline takenextdispatcher; does it depend on anything other than the immediate caller setting it? | 18:52 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | jnthn: I tried making the optimizer support takenextdispatcher same way as takedispatcher. But, apparently, with no success. | 18:54 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Basically, set/takenextdispatcher do the same what setfor/takedispatcher do, just with different data. | 18:55 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jnthn | What was the failure mode? New behavior didn't work as expected, or existing behavior didn't work as expected? | 18:56 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | R#3569 is a related one. | 18:57 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
linkable6 | R#3569 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/3569 [BLOCKER][MoarVM][regression] &nextcallee can misbehave with wrapped routines in threaded code | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Altai-man_ | lizmat, when you referring to a "several months delay", do you mean re-designing/re-implementing dispatchers would take a couple of months or that last release was February? | 19:22 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | Altai-man_: the former. | 19:23 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | Ouch. I was thinking about a couple of weeks, not months. | 19:24 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | Altai-man_: as far as I understand, the work isn't even started yet unless jnthn has other new. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
*news | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | vrurg, what's the TPCiC date? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | Altai-man_: Jun 24. | 19:25 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
24-26 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg is afk | 19:26 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | AFAIK, dispatcher patches were merged quite early after 2020.02 (we don't count 2020.02.1, it's the same). The release was Feb 23 and github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/3500 was already on Feb 26 and then there are subsequent PRs which are not so far away. | 19:30 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ backlogs | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | The takenextdispatcher issue is not what broke Windows. That was just a sublte error in the JITing of nextdispatcherfor (a related op) which is fixed with no down sides. | 19:47 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ writes up a proposal | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | I marked takenextdispatcher :noinline because of #3569 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
That the redesign of dispatching jnthn is working on may take months is just my guess based on it already being a while in the works, it's intrusiveness into some of the most central and important areas and that we want it to be as stable a the previous stuff when we release. | 19:48 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Of course I wouldn't put a miracle past jnthn :) It may also be done in 2 weeks, but I wouldn't want to put that kind of pressure on him | 19:49 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From what I've seen making takenextdispatcher :noinline hurts so much because it's practically everywhere. I've seen it even in a spesh log of method sink. So if not even that can be inlined, few things can. | 19:50 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MasterDuke | i think jnthn said the design was nearly done, and he hoped to have a bunch of next week to work on it | 19:51 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine | Personally I'm leaning towards taking that performance hit and releasing what we have. Yes, it looks bad, but there are so many cases where even 25 % don't cause much of an issue. For us at work, reliability is currently much more important. | 19:53 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
If jnthn's work goes much faster than I fear, we can always do another release quickly | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Don't forget that people usually have a choice. If the slowdown is inacceptible, they may just chose to stay on 2020.02.1 | 19:54 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | gist.github.com/Altai-man/433f3314...e255533eb3 | 19:55 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
.tell vrurg gist.github.com/Altai-man/433f3314...e255533eb3 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tellable6 | Altai-man_, I'll pass your message to vrurg | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | ^ is my proposal of what to do, comments are welcomed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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jnthn | The design might be nearly done, or it might be "I did the first 80% and the second 80% is to come"... :-) And of course, then we'll have to see how well it copes with reality once implementation gets underway. This is the kind of area where the academic folks are still writing research papers, and none of those that exist (that I'm aware of) cover all of the problems we have. | 20:00 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I should be able to give a better estimate of "just how much work is it" by the end of next week, and hopefully have a bunch of implementation progress to base that on. | 20:01 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | jnthn, what are your thoughts on ^? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nine got a laugh out of discovering the subtle typo he made in "sublte" | 20:02 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jnthn | I'm curious: I thought there was a part-way state on the dispatcher stuff vrurg++ did that didn't involve the new MoarVM ops, but used dynamic variables. What were the performance measurements on that? I'm kind of guessing those didn't prevent inlining. | 20:07 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
In which case there's a partial revert option too that might give better dispatcher behavior and tolerable slowdown | 20:08 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | committable6: cc44b48b443066 say 42 | 20:16 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, ¦cc44b48: «Cannot test this commit (Commit exists, but an executable could not be built for it)» | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | hmmm | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
that's probably right | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6: rakuast say 42 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, ¦rakuast: «Cannot find this revision (did you mean “Prague”?)» | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | hmm | 20:17 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6: a757328bdd2 loop (my $x = 0, $x < 10, $x++) {} | 20:18 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, gist.github.com/899ae2268897fb1e48...6625c4352d | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | committable6: a757328bdd2 loop (my $x = 0; $x < 10; $x++;) {} | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, gist.github.com/87a4ae9ff5b6f06532...abc877f239 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | okay, so that's easy | 20:19 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
now a little bit of hackety-hacking and it'll work | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
it's kinda funny, all this time whateverable was building all branches | 20:20 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
but bots were simply not seeing the commits so it wasn't possible to use these builds | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
heh | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jnthn | That "did you mean" is amazing :D | 20:37 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Altai-man_ | >2015-07-24 Rakudo #90 "Prague" (masak) | 20:40 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | c: Prague say 42 | 20:43 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, ¦Prague: «42» | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | not only it's amazing, it's actually correct :) it's very likely that Prague is indeed the closest match to rakuast | 20:45 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
it's kinda weird for it to base its guess on three letters but hey, better than nothing I guess :) | 20:46 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
though my favorite is this one: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
c: cycle say 42 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, ¦cycle: «Cannot find this revision (did you mean “v6.c”?)» | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | hmmm | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I wonder if it's smart enough to ignore Bicycle | 20:47 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
c: Bicycle say 42 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hello? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6: help | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, Like this: committable6: f583f22,HEAD say ‘hello’; say ‘world’ # See wiki for more examples: github.com/Raku/whateverable/wiki/Committable | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | c: Bicycle say 42 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
:S | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6: Bicycle say 42 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
fail | 20:48 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MasterDuke | sift4 gives a distance of 4 for rakuast and prague, levenstein give 5 | 20:49 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, ¦Bicycle: «No build for this commit» | 20:52 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
timotimo | needs .pm? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, ¦Bicycle: «No build for this commit» | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
timotimo | ah, probably not | 20:53 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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AlexDaniel | weeeird. | 21:25 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
well, at least it works… | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg | jnthn: Unfortunately, the work based on dynamic variables was a dead end because then next dispatcher was propagated into unrelated code. So, set/takenextdispatcher ops was the only solution, | 21:43 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tellable6 | 2020-04-26T19:55:30Z #raku-dev <Altai-man_> vrurg gist.github.com/Altai-man/433f3314...e255533eb3 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vrurg is afk again, was just passing by... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jnthn | vrurg: Thanks for explaining. | 22:08 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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AlexDaniel | committable6: master say 42 | 23:04 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
committable6 | AlexDaniel, ¦master: «42» | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AlexDaniel | huh | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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hoelzro | moritz: excellent! I'll have a look at that PR, but I'm afraid I don't have time for the walkthrough atm (and it's probably a little late for you!); what day/time would work for you? | 23:23 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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