timo we could introduce sooooo many different fake codepoints in the negative number space with absurd behaviours like that ... 00:05
ShimmerFairy I do wonder if we should at least issue a warning when a string is constructed with a surrogate codepoint, at least in some cases. Not sure if that would be better or worse than waiting until you try to encode the text to a UTF. 00:23
librasteve ShimmerFairy: I think that modula’s example (naively encoding random ints) is the sort of thing that I would do (ie a reliance on non specified surrogate subtleties) 06:37
ShimmerFairy: so I, for one, would like to see such a warning if they are stored to Str 06:39
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lizmat meh... CLIENT:: logic doesn't really work from the setting (if you expect the setting to be a single compunit, which it is) 11:00
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lizmat ok, so deprecating "-".IO is simple 13:15
at first sight 13:16
but does that mean that IO::Path.new("-") should also be deprecated?
and IO::Handle.new("-")
and $*ARGFILES = "-" ?
the use of "-" to indicate STDIN (or STDOUT for that matter) is pretty pervasive 13:17
(and open("-")) ?
fwiw, there are roast tests for $*ARGFILES handling "-" 13:18
ab5tract It should just try to open a file named “-“ 16:35
I don’t know how pervasive it is in user code 16:36
I would just remove any and all associations to STDIN (it can also be used to refer to STDOUT?? :O) 16:37
mc2 my 2 cents: IO::CatHandle is the class where "-" should handle $*OUT 16:58
$*ARGFILES is CatHandle, right ? 17:00
wow ... 6pm I have to move
timo: if you anwser I can work few hours on it tomorrow 17:01
(answer the mail on pkg- I mean)
lizmat ab5tract: ok, but then how would one indicate that e.g. a program should read from STDIN ? 17:10
timo hi mc2, i'll take a look 17:11
ab5tract Isn’t that what $*IN is for?
lizmat so I'm wondering, apart from the mention in the docs, where the decision was made to deprecate "-"'s special meaning (especially since we have tests for the use of "-")
I have a script that takes a file name to process, but instead I want it to read from STDIN 17:12
in the unix world, you'd specify "-" as the filename
ab5tract Hmm 17:13
lizmat m: $*ARGFILES = "-"; say slurp
camelia No such method 'slurp' for string '-'. Did you mean 'Slip'?
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat m: $*ARGFILES = ("-",); say slurp
camelia No such method 'slurp' for invocant of type 'List'. Did you mean
'Slip'?
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat m: $*ARGFILES = ("-",); say $*IN.slurp 17:14
camelia »Wann treffen wir drei wieder zusamm?«
»Um die siebente Stund‘, am Brückendamm.«
»Am Mittelpfeiler.«
»Ich lösche die Flamm.«
»Ich mit«

»Ich komme vom Norden her.«
»Und ich vom Süden.…
lizmat m: say $*IN.slurp
camelia »Wann treffen wir drei wieder zusamm?«
»Um die siebente Stund‘, am Brückendamm.«
»Am Mittelpfeiler.«
»Ich lösche die Flamm.«
»Ich mit«

»Ich komme vom Norden her.«
»Und ich vom Süden.…
lizmat hmmm
timo mc2: if you're at the keyboard right now, we can go through the process 17:22
uh i spoke too soon 17:23
but you can see from the README.source.org that we use the gbp (git-buildpackage) suite of tools to handle everything from getting the newest version (uscan), keeping the actual upstream stuff tracked in git (pristine-tar), and some part of it does the necessary patching out of stuff (i think the build package -s step is what does all that?) 17:25
debian-mentors recommends building branches debian/releasename-backports and work in there 17:28
dep-team.pages.debian.net/deps/dep14/ this is relevant 17:44
ab5tract The “-“.IO story is indeed more complicated than I thought at first sneeze :( 19:24
lizmat it even gets a lot harder to provide a good deprecation message for 2 reasons: 19:25
.IO is called from within the core in many places, so the caller's language level is not the language level of the actual code that is doing a call to some functionality 19:26
like open("-") 19:27
so it may deprecate while the users code is 6.c, or not die if the user's code is 6.e
and then there's the issue of producing the correct file / line 19:28
and finally there's the question: why do we want to remove this feature at all, as it is so deeply interwoven in the core 19:29
going afk to frobnicate on that&
mc2 timo: ok ... so I create a trixie-backport branch and try to rebuild all the raku packages ? 20:37
in unix, - is $*IN or $*OUT depending of the context 20:38
tcc -o - - means compile the C program from stdin to stdout 20:39
this must be handled by the scripter, not raku ... unless for the parts that are definitely unix culture related ( CatHandler and $*ARGFILES are the 2 I have in mind ) 20:42
ShimmerFairy It should be noted that, in POSIX, '-' is not universally treated as stdin/stdout. Sometimes it just means a file named '-'. So actually, IIUC, the current behavior makes it impossible to work with a file literally named '-' like some POSIX utils can, which seems bad. 21:59
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