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Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022.
02:06 Voldenet left 02:08 Voldenet joined
Geth rakudo/main: 3e15093fa0 | ab5tract++ | src/core.c/Main.rakumod
Small revision to the fix for R#5875

Unlike the PseudoStash lookups, we do not need to use `try` to guard the lookup into the `%caller-my` hash.
Also, the previous phrasing was actually equivalent to:
... (5 more lines)		 11:52
linkable6 R#5875 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/5875 [good first issue][enumerations][objects] Success in enum resolution during &MAIN invocation depends on declaration scope of the enum.
lizmat ab5tract: "that asking a hash for a missing key will never produce an exception" s/hash/ordinary hash/ 11:55
tellable6 2025-05-11T09:47:09Z #raku-dev <nine> lizmat: thanks for the quick review :)
lizmat nine: you're welcome 11:56
ab5tract ah, the brain isn't working great today
I was trying to come up with the right adjective and "core" didn't feel right
could also have chosen "this hash"
lizmat: is it worth me amending and force pushing?
lizmat no, it is not :-)
just wanted to make sure that conceptually speaking, all hashes in Raku are what Perl would call "tied hashes", so any behaviour can go there 11:57
and to be more precise: any class doing the Positional role 11:58
and to be even more reality based: any class providing an AT-KEY method
m: class A { method AT-KEY($) { 42 } }; say A<foo> 11:59
camelia 42
ab5tract and of course my reasoning is actually wrong.. 12:03
because if `a` is undefined....
ahh, nevermind, it looks like I'm bumping up against the "classic" issue of subsets being kind of kneecapped when coupled with named args 12:09
m: subset S where Nil | "ok"; sub foo(S :$grr) { say "rawr!" }; foo 12:13
camelia Constraint type check failed in binding to parameter '$grr'; expected S but got Any (Any)
in sub foo at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Geth roast: 74e5b11ebb | ab5tract++ | S06-other/main.t
Add tests to cover imported names in MAIN signatures

Tests added to prevent regressions for the recent fix to R#5875.		 12:16
linkable6 R#5875 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/5875 [good first issue][enumerations][objects] Success in enum resolution during &MAIN invocation depends on declaration scope of the enum.
ab5tract At the very least it would be nice to fix the LTA error message to say something like "named arguments with subset types require a conformant default value" or something lik this 12:17
Did we ever decide on the mechanism to access the AST of an object? ISTR the Q| |.AST mechanism isn't necessarily sticking around 12:20
lizmat no decision has been made afaik 12:21
ab5tract ack
probably it's better to do a type check on the HOW anyway 12:22
nine "AST of an object" doesn't make much sense anyway 12:23
lizmat .tell melezhik looks like the link for the discord channel is incorrect 12:27
tellable6 lizmat, I'll pass your message to melezhik.
lizmat notable6: weekly 12:42
notable6 lizmat, 2 notes: 2025-05-09T18:10:29Z <melezhik>: sparrowdo.wordpress.com/2025/05/09...jobs-flow/ ; 2025-05-12T07:35:47Z <librasteve>: rakujourney.wordpress.com/2025/05/...ntic-time/
lizmat notable6: weekly reset
notable6 lizmat, Moved existing notes to “weekly_2025-05-12T12:42:32Z”
ab5tract nine: so often I read your messages and miss a second, explanatory, phrase :) 12:44
but you are right, of course, as usual 12:47
the "AST of an object" is really the AST of the expression of the object, not so useful for my purposes indeed 12:48
unfortunately the stack trace for `./rakudo-m --ll-exception -e 'subset S of Int where * > 5; sub s(S :$s) { say "hi" }; s'` doesn't contain any obvious places for attaching a better error message 12:53
removing `of Int` is more promising, but I'm starting to see why this hasn't been addressed successfully yet 12:55
nine TBH I don't see the big problem with that error message anyway. 13:02
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lizmat and yet another Rakudo Weekly News hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2025/05/12/2025-...c-in-time/ 13:19
ab5tract nine: I think it's completely broken to allow Int $i but not SubsetX $x 13:21
sorry, :$i and :$x respectively
the least we can do is inform the user to provide conformant default value
either we have LTA as a goal or we don't, but throwing "Uninitialized value used in ..." is not helpful 13:24
nine Well that *is* what happens. 13:25
ab5tract but simply fixing the binder to just return success when the param is a subset and the value is Mu should also be fine (if my tiredness isn't affecting things)
because if they explicitly allow for Mu, the bind success is true anyways
and if not, the way we specify that an argument is required is with ! 13:26
(anmed argument)
nine Wouldn't a compile time warning or error be more appropriate? Having an optional argument that would lead to certain failure unless provided makes little sense.
ab5tract this is a runtime issue though, afaict? 13:27
nine Why?
ab5tract unless you mean we compile time error for any subset that isn't explicitly Mu || *
My point is simple: DWIM for named arguments means optional 13:28
I do not expect my optional arguments to be type checked. Only subsets seem to suffer from this
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ab5tract *type checked when no value is provided 13:29
nine As you said: "the least we can do is inform the user to provide conformant default value". As it is the sub's signature as declared makes little sense. $s is optional but you will absolutely get an error unless you supply it
ab5tract That's why it is stupid
Int works. User defined classes work
nine Because those do have a default value. What do you expect say $s to do when $s hasn't been provided?
ab5tract I honestly could care less 13:30
Mu is fine
nine a default value that actually fits their type constraint
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nine That would then be a case where a variable has an explicitly declared type but the value does not fit that type constraint. I don't think we have that anywhere else and it would be highly surprising. 13:31
ab5tract the whole issue here is that subsets aren't proper types
nine Bad enough that the compiler lets us write code that violates type constraints and lets us reap the explosion at runtime. But if types are then not even checked at runtime, what's the point of having them in the first place? 13:32
ab5tract otherwise we would just hand over the type object of the subset
so in my opinion, using of would be fine there
Mu by default, whatever the user specified the subset of otherwise 13:33
but backing up, I see what you mean about the compile time warning now
Sorry, the wheels are turning slowly today
so just to make sure I'm headed in the right direction: if a subset-based named argument isn't declared as required && this argument doesn't have a conformant default value, then explode? 13:37
nine Yes. At least warn under those conditions.
ab5tract Cool! That feels like some relatively lightweight RakuAST hacking, which would be a nice change of pace 13:39
nine And something that might ease you into a bit more invovled RakuAST hacking to fix make install? 13:43
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ab5tract nine: yeah, a bit of an onramp so to speak 14:47
I have a tiny bit of poking already into
the "$_ missing from outer" issue
[Coke] kicked off blin run 15:33
Looks like a small release this week.
releasable6: next
releasable6 [Coke], Next release in ≈5 days and ≈3 hours. There are no known blockers. 12 out of 13 commits logged
[Coke], Details: gist.github.com/add1ff4d08c69da380...373eee4502
18:33 melezhik joined
melezhik maybe someone ( who does AST development ) find this report useful - sparky.sparrowhub.io/report/gh-mel...tool/24592 18:34
r3 tests for Rakudo with AST enabled
nine melezhik: Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW should be Metamodel::ClassHOW 18:35
melezhik yeah, but the test does check that 18:37
[Coke] nine++
melezhik it only runs " my sub word-bytes(Int:D $word --> List:D[Int]) { }" and get this exception
[Coke] ⏳ 657 out of 2310 modules processed (28.44%)
nine melezhik: what do you mean by "the test does check that"?
melezhik I meant does NOT check
nine Ah, then --ll-exception would be more helpful 18:38
melezhik the test actually replicates github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1411
sure I can add 18:39
nine Cannot reproduce that locally: 18:40
> RAKUDO_RAKUAST=1 ./rakudo-m -e 'my sub word-bytes(Int:D $word --> List:D[Int]) { }'
===SORRY!=== Error while compiling
List cannot be parameterized
melezhik what's raked version? 18:43
timo oh, List:D[Int], interesting
i'm not sure if i would have expected that to have to be List[Int]:D
melezhik in test this is 2025.03
however I have just build 2025.04 and run against it 18:44
raked -> rakudo
nine main branch or bootstrap-rakuast?
melezhik I build from source ( 2025.3, 2025.r etc ) and then run with RAKUDO_RAKUAST=1 just in case 18:45
2025.r -> 2025.4
just in case I get source straight from rakudo.org/downloads 18:46
full details about rakudo could be found in here - sparky.sparrowhub.io/file_view/gh-...akuenv.txt 18:47
( report -> artifacts -> rakuenv.txt -> view )
ok, for rakudo 2025.4 exception is now - "List cannot be parameterized" - sparky.sparrowhub.io/report/gh-mel...tool/24597 18:48
which is probably expected ?
and I have added --ll-exception option. for this test 18:49
you might be interested in other failed tests? like "Cannot find method 'PRECURSOR' on object of type QAST::Op" etc 18:50
actually only 3 tests failed
also test #4278 - No such method 'meta-object' for invocant of type 'RakuAST::Declaration::Import' 18:52
replicates github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/4278
releasable6 Next release in ≈4 days and ≈23 hours. There are no known blockers. Please log your changes in the ChangeLog: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/ChangeLog-Draft 19:00
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timo can't wait for someone to override the "return" method on an object and cause code that is meant to not run after a "return" statement to actually unexpectedly run after all 19:11
Geth rakudo/enhance-named-param-subset-feedback: 87e1dbdc15 | ab5tract++ | 2 files
Enhance feedback around named subset parameters

Adding a worry here provides users with a bit of helpful feedback when they define an optional named parameter with a subset type but fail to provide a valid default value.
Default values are also checked for conformance to the provided subset, with the obvious caveat that an expression without a compile time value will pass through this protection.		 21:00
rakudo: ab5tract++ created pull request #5879:
Enhance feedback around named subset parameters
ab5tract RakuAST 🤌 (should be :chefs-kiss:) 21:03

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