Documentation Channel for #raku | This channel is logged | Roadmap:
Set by [Coke] on 23 May 2022.
07:33 sena_kun joined 08:41 NemokoschKiwi joined
NemokoschKiwi Hello, um, I think there is some miscommunication going on with the search and stuff. Maybe it would be better to talk about it real-time some way? 08:44
In particular, it seems to me that the necessity to "change the UI" goes a bit neglected. I have tried to work with both the side bar and the search bar. They are both rigged fundamentally. It's not like you can fix their problems without ditching the very principle of them, and this is especially true for the side bar. 08:47
I don't think this has anything to do with whether a particular design appeals to any of us or not 08:48
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lizmat FWIW, I think an emergency Jitsi meet would be in place 08:51
sena_kun For the record: as I am no longer involved in the work, my vote has no value in efforts of the active contributors. I can only state my opinion once (which I already did), maybe to be more concise: almost all the changes, to the footer, to the sidebar, to the custom pages design etc, more often than not led to the result feeling more weird than it originally was, subjectively and akin to my daily experience. I do feel enough of an irony, as I met the 10:18
same sort of resistance when introducing the new design. I tried to do what I could at the time, but I am also not going to go further than giving the "be careful, dammit!" advice. Hope Raku and its docs will be doing well in the future. :)
Of note, I am currently fundamentally confused with how anything open source works _at all_. The successful projects I see in the wild are either a work of a single "owner" (numerous one-man projects), or a collective work with, still, one person having an authority over accepting or not major contributions (Linux kernel, etc), and different parts of Raku structure does not fit into any of those 10:23
s/does/do/ # too many rewrites 10:24
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[Coke] I would schedule it for next saturday, but I have plans. 14:39
So, other suggestions, or someone else can chair the call (which, to be fair, I have a horrible attendance record on) 14:42
lizmat what would be wrong with tomorrow at 19:00 UTC ? 17:32
[Coke] Sure, what's the agenda. 17:33
I've already proposed something to Richard on a way forward, haven't seen him respond.
is it just to discuss how to deal with Richard's large not-yet-a-PR? 17:35
lizmat well, that, and more general to get everybody involved on the same page ? 17:42
[Coke] ... I have some very pointed discussion points on that one, not sure they're great for a shared call. 17:50
But, ok. So, all our IRC friends, 19:00 UTC tomorrow, which is 3pm eastern in the US. 17:51
I'll email richard.
lizmat ok if I join as well ?
hope Richard will be able to make it... 17:52
[Coke] Sent. 17:54
Of course you can join, I was expecting it 17:55
lizmat cool
[Coke] we don't have that many people on the team as it is, and a meeting that is just me grumping at one other person will not be effective.
lizmat true but I hope at the end there will be a lot less grumping 17:56
[Coke] email sent and cc'd liz & cole on it.
Geth ¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Differentiate clearly "version" and "release" 18:45
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Decide which methods should be documented 18:46
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Documentation for traits is lacking 18:47
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Uniform file names in the Languages directory 18:49
¦ doc-website: coke self-unassigned Create 404 & 500 page
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Intent, not syntax
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned various Category-related TODOs 18:50
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned encoding list missing in some locations 18:51
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Fix duplicated index entries and avoid them in the future by adding a test.
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Track Deprecations 18:52
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned error when binding variables 18:53
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Proc::Async Example needs to be modified to run on Windows 10 18:54
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Time to delete stale branches... again 18:55
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned No mention of NFG in the docs? 18:59
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned How to document rakudo bugs? 19:01
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Check for indexing marks that try to index the page they're in
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Document environment variables for testing 19:05
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Styling of types 19:06
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Test internal modules
¦ doc: coke self-unassigned Better document use of '$' in sprintf format string 19:08
lucs [Coke]: Are you comfortable with having a lurker (lurcs :-) at your meeting tomorrow? 22:21
[Coke] sure 22:25
the more the merrier
lurkers have been known to turn into volunteers. 22:26
lucs OK, thanks. 22:27
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NemokoschKiwi Yeah, I guess one could really think about how any sort of open-source project can work but I'd skip on the speculation with this one. Anyway, in theory, you could replace the BDFL concept to a clearly articulated goal I guess 22:37
Regarding the website and the UI - sena_kun I think you clearly know what it's like when you take up on a problem that you think is well-understood and then you face a lack of awareness of the problem you invested so much into solving 22:40
"why does it need to change" well, I think mostly because of issues reported with it. Regarding the side bar, I can remember one from vrurg and I experienced another one both as a user and as a developer 22:43
I mean, that's not to say that it absolutely cannot stay the way it is, it also doesn't mean that we are guaranteed to get to a better solution 22:44
but I for one very much welcome the sentiment that there are essential issues and if one doesn't accept them, the only sensible way is to break the structure down so much that the visuals might change somewhat 22:45
another thing is that at some point the people who can't/don't contribute for some reason, kind of "humble down" and refrain from giving feedback. This is something I heard from Robert Ransbottom as well 22:50
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NemokoschKiwi Even I have been quite reluctant to bring up why the doc website uses Bulma instead of good old Bootstrap. Bulma doesn't seem either very well maintained or big enough to have loads of custom plugins and materials to fill in the gaps. I see it as a risk that the site gets locked to something that might turn abandoned or obsolete quite soon. And 22:54
even though this sounds like a simple enough argument, even I can feel that it's just unnice to be nosy with work that is done mostly by someone else anyway
It would be good to have mechanisms to be able to bring things like these up, without anyone feeling called out, ordered around or neglected 22:57
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