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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
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Geth Raku-Steering-Council/main: 4685b778ec | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | minutes/20220917.md
Minutes of 2022-09-17 meeting
 09:54
Anton Antonov Do you know any packages that convert Markdown to Pod6? (There is at least one that does Pod6 to Markdown.) 10:01
Nemokosch By the way, I think the whole RSC activity should be (even?) more advertised within the community. A big takeaway of the Raku conference was that even fairly involved people (Richard or Steve for example) have little idea about it, and I can understand that. 10:05
And reading the notes, it seems absolutely worth mentioning, almost all of it.
lizmat it will be mentioned in the next weekly 10:07
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Nemokosch nice 10:11
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lizmat also: there *is* a public #raku-steering-council channel :-) 10:27
Nemokosch how many members does it have? 10:30
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lizmat the RSC has 7 members, if that is your question :-) 11:27
El_Che how many rings does the RSC have? 11:50
tellable6 2022-09-20T14:13:54Z #raku <melezhik> El_Che I have integrated raku-zef-deps and sparkyci - please see this build - ci.sparrowhub.io/report/1178 , deps report
2022-09-20T14:19:44Z #raku <melezhik> El_Che - raw.githubusercontent.com/melezhik...4%20AM.png
lizmat looks at her fingers 12:01
at least 1
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moritz one ring to rule them all! :-) 12:15
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Nemokosch No 12:49
My question is, how many members does the raku-steering-council channel 12:50
If it only has seven as a public channel, that wouldn't sound too good 😛
lizmat Nemokosch: why are you asking questions that you can easily verify yourself? 12:52
tellable6 lizmat, I'll pass your message to Nemokosch
Nemokosch Because I'm not in that channel and you are. Why are _you_ asking this question instead of answering? 12:58
tonyo Because you can answer the question yourself. 13:10
No one in here is your secretary 13:11
lizmat Nemokosch: how do you know that I am on that channel ? 13:21
tellable6 lizmat, I'll pass your message to Nemokosch
lizmat afk& 13:22
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[Coke] is reminded that he wants /win close, not /quit. oops 13:46
tellable6 2022-09-20T14:22:11Z #raku <melezhik> [Coke] - twitter.com/melezhik2/status/15722...9029980165 sparkyci and App::Zef-Deps integration
Nemokosch lizmat: You are a member of RSC, anyway, why does it matter? You seem to know more about it. 13:51
I wouldn't have asked if I didn't think it was worth asking. 13:52
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Anyway, I did log in now; for those who are interested in the answer: japhb, lizmat, vrurg and rba are in that channel (plus Geth and RakuIRCLogger but they are both bots iirc) 14:01
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Nemokosch www.raku-lang.ir/en/community/ I found this site, not sure what its state is but it contains more information about IRC than raku.org/community/ 14:04
tellable6 2022-09-16T23:28:37Z #raku <Voldenet> Nemokosch: regarding the %a >>+>> %b syntax, it's not intersection, it's `set difference` op, no idea why `intersection` and `union` are used in docs but not the `set difference`
2022-09-20T10:14:24Z #raku <Voldenet> Nemokosch: Though no lvalue seems like a special case of `.=` (that turns the first operand into $_), similar to how `- 42` can be special case of `0 - 42`
2022-09-20T10:57:44Z #raku <lizmat> Nemokosch: by that notion, *anything* in Raku can have side effects, even just accessing a variable's value if it has a Proxy in which the FETCH does a counter increment
2022-09-21T12:52:25Z #raku <lizmat> Nemokosch: why are you asking questions that you can easily verify yourself?
2022-09-21T13:21:05Z #raku <lizmat> Nemokosch: how do you know that I am on that channel ?
Nemokosch dang 14:05
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[Coke] looks like ".ir" is Iran, the main site there is in Persian? Looks like a translated version of the official site. 14:13
looks like 90% the same, with the additional info you mentioned near the bottom 14:15
Nemokosch Yep, the vast majority of the site is redirects to raku.org 14:17
[Coke] if there's stuff there that should also be on the main site, please open a ticket with github.com/Raku/raku.org - might be worth also a PR to add the persian site you found to the translations list in the readme. (and we should probably also say those are community run, not "official") 14:26
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Nemokosch Okay okay 14:34
I wonder who made this, or how up-to-date it is. In theory, it really looks nice.
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melezhik o/ 14:38
tellable6 2022-09-20T15:29:26Z #raku <[Coke]> melezhik ooh, nifty
melezhik I see people use quite a lot pod6 to markdown/html conversion for their modules, will it make a sense to add some pod6 checker/validator on sparkyci ? 14:39
so that an author might be notified of potential pod issues or broken pod? 14:41
so some pod linter integration ...
tonyo anyone know what happened to rakudo.party? 14:47
Anton Antonov <@779471841270038528> Interesting point! I asked earlier today about the opposite conversion: from Markdown to Pod6. 14:48
melezhik Anton, what could be a use case? So to convert markdown to pod6 during CI build and then what? To publish result as markdown or html? 14:49
can we use this raku.land/cpan:SOFTMOTH/Pod::To::Markdown or something else? 14:52
Anton Antonov <@779471841270038528> My use case is bound to Mathematica!!! 🙂 I use Pod6 for easier verification. Please see: github.com/antononcube/Raku-Markdown-Grammar .
<@779471841270038528> I looked into that package, "Pod::To::Markdown" earlier today. (And installed it.) It is not clear to me how to use it yet. 14:53
melezhik Yeah, regardless a tool we might use, what are you after? pod6 verification, right? 14:58
Anton Antonov <@779471841270038528> I was not clear. I am most interested in generating Mathematica and Jupyter notebooks from Markdown. Those notebook formats have syntax that is hard to evaluate the conversions visually. That is why I use Pod6 -- during development it is much easier to evaluate the Pod6 interpretations produced by the package. (I.e. no need to use another tool to open and evaluate the obtained conversion 15:03
melezhik Anton, I see ... I tend to see some simple cases like verify pod6 or something, not sure how does that fit into things you are trying to do ... 15:12
[Coke] melezhik: I ran that memory leak and all you need is to have like 30G, no problems. :) 15:15
(but seriously, I think it's the underlying zef libraries)
melezhik [Coke] infinitive money and infinitive time is cure for everything, huh?  😀 15:16
yeah, I saw your comments
my first guess was this is zef related too
this is bad only for modules that have , say 20+ dependencies in tree
so most of the time we won't see such problem 15:17
CI jobs gets run on 2 core/6GB container instances
Nemokosch melezhik: right now, I'm stuck with a very fragile VPS for the rest of the year - but I hope to start to use your CI tools afterwards 😛 15:21
melezhik Nemokosch++ 15:22
Nemokosch I have basically no CI experience so it will be about time I learn this... 15:23
my discord bot instances are really just running in two folders, with some pm2 config for keeping the processes up 15:24
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[Coke] I think my mac is too new to support valgrind. :| 15:30
(brew complains not on linux, ports complains that 'valgrind' is too old, and 'valgrind-macos-devel' complains that version 12.6 is too new.) 15:33
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[Coke] after an hour of downloading things and poking around, vmware fusion finally tells me I can't run this version on apple silicon (I was trying specifically to get the version that was supposed to work on the m1/m2!) 16:39
and it didn't complain until I tried to actually start an ISO, helpfully letting the app work and not complain until then. :| 16:40
So, debugging the memory leak with my hardware is proving challenging so far. :)
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Nemokosch [Coke]: so I should create separate PR's for different modifications, rather than one larger PR with everything I would like to alter? 16:55
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[Coke] tries to setup a linux VM on azure to test there. 17:42
separate PRs makes it easier to adopt easy-to-agree-to things and discuss more complex things. 17:43
if it's a bunch of simple changes, sure, one is fine.
[Coke] setups a linux vm, builds rakudo... and the OOM killer prevents the build. oops 17:57
sorry, I assume that's what it is, but the vm is underpowered, I guess 17:58
there's a version in apt-get that is 2019.11 18:05
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[Coke] RSC: can someone reach out to the maintainers of the apt-get project to get a recent one added? (is it there but just hiding under an unstable flag or something?) 18:16
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El_Che I am apt-get :) 18:26
(I don't know what's this about :) )
tonyo the one i got trying to finish te blog post about Cro was 2020 (from apt) 18:28
[Coke] El_Che: I just tried to install rakudo from apt-get on a linux vm somewhere and got one from 2019 18:30
El_Che url? 18:31
maybe a rakudo-pkg predecessor?
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El_Che do you have the url handy? 18:38
I am curious
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pleasantpheasant Anyone else having issues zef installing Digest::SHA on Windows? 18:41
I get "cannot unbox negative bigint into unsigned integer"
Sad b/c I'm trying to use Raku at work and have some support from the team but can't seem to get HTTP::UserAgent to work with our corporate proxy setup 18:42
Trying Cro now
Digest::SHA being a dep thereof 18:43
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pleasantpheasant into *native* unsigned integer, sorry 18:48
Nemokosch I'm checking if the same thing happens in WSL 18:50
Digest::SHA1::Native, right?
or plain Digest?
[Coke] El_Che: how do I get a URL? 'apt show rakudo' doesn't give one 19:03
El_Che aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
got it
apt-get the command
I was confused by project because I own apt-get.be 19:04
[Coke] ahhh
yup, not that. :)
El_Che apt-get ==> regular debian or ubuntu repos
[Coke] I was so hopeful you could fix my issue, though! :)
El_Che well, the trick is simple. Use whatever old version the distro provide, upgrade to a more recent release of the distro or use rakudo-pkg for your distro 19:06
(and you'll get the latest released rakudo in apt-get)
(or whatever format you distro use like rpm and the like)
*s 19:07
github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg#os-repositories 19:08
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Nemokosch What kind of templates does the docs site use? 19:29
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El_Che [Coke]: ping me if you need more info 19:34
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[Coke] El_Che: I don't understand. (I rarely use apt-get, so maybe I'm just missing something) 19:56
El_Che apt-get is the interface for the native package manager of debian and ubuntu 19:58
the distro itself packages raku and add it to the default repositories
so you use what they build
I have repositories you can add to apt-get to get the latest raku, independently from what the distro provides (in another install path, no conflicts)
so if your distro provides 2019 something, you can still run raku 2022.7 20:00
(or whatever the latest raku release is, I forget :) ) 20:01
[Coke] ah, new repositories, not the system defaults. got it 20:05
El_Che speciall design to not conflict with whatever the system provides
system perl reasoning :)
although sytem raku is not a thing yet :) 20:06
[Coke] can we get those instructions added to rakudo.org/downloads which would end up pointing users at the distro version by default?
afk
El_Che rakudo-pkg is at the bottom
it's up to rakudo to decides what packages they recommend, I won't evangelize :) 20:07
-s 20:09
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Geth raku.org: 2colours++ created pull request #172:
Removing unused mailing lists, actualizing year		 21:49
Nemokosch CIAvash: are you the author of raku-lang.ir? 21:56
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[Coke] so by the time i set up the linux vm in azure, ugexe has already fixed the memory issue 23:12
pleasantpheasant Nemokosch - plain old Digest::SHA afaik 23:37
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