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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
guifa that worked 00:00
Xliff :D
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guifa at least in my golfed example 00:04
I swear I had tried something like it but maybe it was that dummy rule that made the difference 00:05
m: grammar G { token TOP { :my %*h = :42x; <POT> }; token POT { {%*h<y> = 24 } . } }; class A { method TOP ($/) { say %*h }; method POT ($/) { %*h<z> = 10 } }; G.parse('x',:actions(A))
camelia {x => 42, y => 24, z => 10}
guifa so there action method TOP has access to :42x (set in original TOP), :24y (set in fake top POT) and :10z (set in method for POT)
I'm probably in insane premature optimization time but I wonder if a dozen dynamics are more/less performant than a single hash with twelve keys 00:10
Xliff That's something for jnthn or nine. 00:18
It would work a treat for now, though.
guifa yeah, and honestly, this is just going to parse a pattern to generate a code block 00:19
so as long as the actual code block is hyper optimized, the parsing stage is less important
Xliff I'm thinking I might try to add this to Javascript::D3 - observablehq.com/@d3/choropleth 00:20
guifa I've seen a lot of chatter about D3 but not familiar with it 00:22
m: 1.234.round(0) 00:23
camelia Attempt to divide by zero when calling .floor on Rational
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
guifa hmmm.... I feel like that should be special cased 00:24
Nemokosch I'm not sure who said this so it was probably Zoffix... don't give up the ambition. There is almost nothing "for Jonathan" in the broad sense 😛 00:26
Xliff Nemokosch: However in the immediate sense, there is a definite need for answers you may not have and someone else does :P\ 00:37
tellable6 Xliff, I'll pass your message to Nemokosch
Xliff Knowing the identity of that person is a key skill. 00:38
guifa: D3 is a set of data visualization routines written in Javascript. They are designed for browser work. They look REALLY good though. Would be nice to have a way to invoke them from Raku. 00:39
Javascript::D3 is a way to do this using a command line tool (which outputs HTML) or Jupyter Notebook.
guifa ah nice 00:41
I keep meaning to get something really simple together that can pop open a window and allow Raku to insert either HTML or just give an editable bitmap to
I feel like such a thing shouldn't be tooooooooo hard to do (at least not the bitmap one) but you know how it goes... other projects 00:42
Xliff Could always use Raku to output Javascript to a browser and have it draw on a <CANVAS>
guifa Yeah 00:44
I think what I'd want to do though is let it pop open a native window and just have the whole window contents be the page
and juse use the OS html renderer or something of that sort 00:45
guifa is thinking of how simple Python makes for drawing to the screen, and that could be nice for Raku to have too 00:46
Xliff Yep. 00:52
Nemokosch how do you draw to the screen in Python? 00:55
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guifa the module Turtle 01:03
Xliff (aka Logo! :> ) 01:05
guifa yup 01:06
I'd rather get something even more basic, upon which other modules could build
like literally "use Canvas; my $a = Canvas.new(:640x, :480y); $a.display;" 01:07
that would just create a 640x480 pixel buffer, and other modules could interact with it (e.g line drawing or graphics drawing)
THe trick of course is it's like my User:: modules… it'll need to be a bit different for each OS 01:08
Nemokosch oh no, please no more Logo 😄 01:14
okay, using turtle graphics from a language that isn't designed to be useless might give a moral boost
guifa I think the advantage of a module like Turtle is that it can add a nice visual component for beginner programmers 01:19
Nemokosch I have been "traumatized" by Logo - more accurately, by *never being told this was programming* 01:20
all I knew is that we are doing Paint in an annoyingly overcomplicated way
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also, not saying everybody is like me in this regard but I absolutely loved just messing around with a rich command line interface provided by Free Pascal 01:21
I really wish Raku had something that could compete with the crt module 01:22
something that does work for all major OS'es
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Homer_Simpson how do you change the string which I got from user input from 'pass' to 'past' 03:06
tellable6 2022-12-30T20:51:47Z #raku <guifa> Homer_Simpson: you can write your own operator to that. It's extremely easy if you're okay with including a quote mark, a bit more complicated if you want just the grave accent and nothing more
Homer_Simpson I tried just trying to get a single character from keyboard, nothing would work even fixed size arrays and fixed size lists still got 4 chars, or said im trying to change the immutable value by prompt/get and say/printing it 03:07
if it was a string literal or a string literal constant doing $str++; works, it starts at the end of the string however 03:08
guifa how would you write your own operator 03:09
just ` on its own is invalid yes.
L`a` is invalid as is `π` because π is 2 bytes long and a is only 1 byte but is trying to fit inside of 2 bytes. however ` ` also means string as long as there is more than one character in it 03:11
so `πa`is fine as would be L`πa` 03:12
maybe instead of having $`` and the same with other sigils just make a type called Char 03:13
then you can do stuff like: my Char $c = 97; prinf("%c", $c); # a
then you can do stuff like: my Char $c = 97; printf("%c", $c); # a 03:14
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Homer_Simpson oh ok an operator is really a subroutine 03:26
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Voldenet don't write your own operators 04:26
it's cool that you can, but it's extremely confusing later
>how do you change the string which I got from user input from 'pass' to 'past' 04:29
m: my $input = "pass"; $input ~~ s/s$/t/; say $input
camelia past
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Homer_Simpson regex is cheating 06:01
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Voldenet cheating? Would you look at this solution 09:23
m: my $input = "pass"; $input = $input ?? "past" !! $input; say $input
camelia past
Voldenet erm
m: my $input = "pass"; $input = $input eq "pass" ?? "past" !! $input; say $input
camelia past
Voldenet now that's a hacky solution 09:24
pure cheating
m: "pass".&parse-base(36).&{ $_ + 1 }.base(36).say 09:28
camelia PAST
Voldenet it takes creativity to cheat properly
m: my $input = Buf.new: "pass".encode; $input[$input.end] = $input[$input.end] + 1; say $input.decode 09:36
camelia past
Voldenet m: my $input = Buf.new: "pass".encode; $input[$input.end]++; say $input.decode 09:37
camelia past
Voldenet m: my $input = Buf.new: "~~~".encode; $input[$input.end] += 2; say $input.decode 09:40
camelia Malformed UTF-8 near bytes 7e 80 at line 1 col 3
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Nemokosch Voldenet++ 🤣 09:47
Voldenet that question has so many edge cases though, like what representation of a character should it use 09:49
what happens on overflow
Nemokosch anyway Homer_Simpson please forget about it. If you want proper string processing in a language, you CANNOT aim for C strings 09:51
Voldenet ^ 09:54
if you want a proper language, you cannot aim for C
aiming for C is undefined behaviour that can destroy the world if compiler wishes so 09:55
Nemokosch Well I think C is an excellent language for getting commonsensical abstractions for real cheap. But "abstractions" need to be understood from assembly and physical hardware point of view, not math point of view 09:56
What I do kind of hate that C was praised over Pascal for things like passing arrays as pointers and null-terminated strings 09:57
these turned out to be horrible design mistakes later on 09:58
so thank you very much, Brian Kernighan 🤣
Voldenet C is an excellent language for CVEs
Nemokosch nah, tbh I wouldn't blame the stupidity of an average Joe on C 09:59
UB itself is overrated. You cannot hit undefined behavior without doing something very apparently nonsensical. 10:01
Voldenet you can dereference null by accident and it's more common that you might think
Nemokosch yes, "by accident". But nobody in their right mind would deliberately do that. It's an apparent mistake. 10:02
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I'm not saying C is my favorite language. One can think of the horrible include system, ugly typedefs or the sole fact that arrays are more or less a hack. 10:04
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But I absolutely don't buy this sentiment for C or any other language that the language is to blame for *very apparent* mistakes people have done over time. 10:04
Voldenet the result of similar apparent mistakes in C are heartbleed-class bugs 10:05
Nemokosch yes but why don't we blame the people for that? 10:06
Voldenet in java things just crash, which is more sane default
Nemokosch well, have you ever seen Java compiled to machine code? 10:07
Voldenet I wasn't that deep into it, I've seen C# compiled into machine code
Nemokosch I'm pretty sure this "will it crash" just downright falls out of the scope of the language. It's something the runtime provides. 10:08
and it's really tempting to say that C literally has no runtime
Voldenet No! It's something that language provides 10:10
Nemokosch C doesn't even provide memory management, mind you 10:12
not heap management, that is
like literally it's not part of the language. Part of the reason it's so easy to implement on whatever hardware 10:13
Voldenet it's easy to implement because things are so unspecified or undefined 10:14
Nemokosch nah, this is just an empty cliché 10:15
either an empty cliché or not understanding what specifying e.g memory management for various hardware for 40 years would even mean 10:16
Voldenet I'm not blaming C for the choices it made, I'm just saying that it's not the best language to use as a model for anything modern 10:17
Nemokosch ironically enough, we ended up in a situation where e.g `int` is conserved as a 4 byte int on 64bit PC's, simply because it became so widespread. So it did become de facto specified and for the wrong reasons. 10:18
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Anyway, for now, I'm (mostly) writing C for a living, and I could tell you about things that can go wrong, or how I dislike the very starting point that legacy SUN Pascal code was ported to C or some completely obsolete C++, rather than moving with Free Pascal and iteratively replacing the mess with saner, more modern code 10:23
I absolutely know how often it happens that the system has had a memory mistake for 30 years but it just didn't break on Solaris and now all of a sudden, it does break on Linux 10:24
Voldenet Int might be 4 bytes, but how many bits are in a byte? :> 10:25
I'm really glad that some standards exist here 10:26
Nemokosch and it's also obvious that with state of art compilers nowadays, the situation is completely different from the "days of C", like one can really just mash a lot more into a compiler
on the other hand, I cannot like when C takes the blame for the fact that the whole software industry was very young and immature, and people simply didn't care about the possible consequences of certain mistakes 10:28
Voldenet but C was there at the time of the crime, of course it takes the blame 10:31
Nemokosch C was more a witness than a commiter though 10:32
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take this hypothesis: C played a much bigger role in the industrial boom than in the vulnerabilities themselves; it's rather the industrial boom itself that put more pressure on being aware and avoiding the vulnerabilities 10:35
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guifa Homer_Simpson: sub circumfix:<` `> (Str() $foo) { $foo.comb }; my @a = `'abc'`; say @a 12:17
tellable6 guifa, I'll pass your message to Homer_Simpson
guifa m: sub circumfix:<` `> (Str() $foo) { $foo.comb }; my @a = `'abc'`; say @a
camelia [a b c]
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Voldenet Nemokosch: C vulnerabilities just didn't matter in times before everything was connected to everything else ;) 14:46
tellable6 Voldenet, I'll pass your message to Nemokosch
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Voldenet that `` syntax is awkward 14:48
m: sub prefix:<@> (Str() $foo) { $foo.comb }; my @a = @"abc"; say @a
camelia [a b c]
Voldenet consider this
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Nemokosch Voldenet: this but frankly, you can remove "C" from that sentence 15:09
It's not particularly a C thing
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Geth ecosystem/main: 81a4ba8e04 | thundergnat++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Migrate module to fez ecosystem
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Nemokosch anyone already living in 2023? 😄 19:53
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Anton Antonov <@297037173541175296> Not yet. I just published a blog post I wanted to finish before the end of the year. 😎 21:01
Nemokosch 💪 21:20
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melezhik Happy New Year to everyone ! 🌲🌲🌲 23:32
Nemokosch 🤗 23:33
melezhik we still have it coming in 6 and halve hours in TX, Houston ... ))) 23:38
Nemokosch ~~the homeland of fat people~~ 23:39
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